OT…Cooper Dejean has declared for the draft

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

He will probably be gone before the Bills draft but if he is there, I don't think they'll pass on him.  I think WR is their biggest need but I also think there are some really good WR prospects that will be available on day two.  Prior to the draft last year, I remember hearing that this draft will have about 80 guys with round 1 or 2 grades.  If that proves to be true, the Bills should be able to get two or three impact players.  Given that Beane pulled Kincaid and Torrence out of a poor draft class, I am optimistic.  Until we know what happens in free agency, it's really hard to project the Bills' draft.

[T master]

Not sure who this kid is but if it goes the way it could this off season the Bills could almost have to pay more attention to the back end of the D than a WR in the first round .

 

The possibility of Hyde, Poyer, Tre, all not being here next season is a very good possibility & then there are those that could be gone that weren't active on game days like Damar, so there may be more immediate needs than WR although that is one position that needs attention for sure . 

 

The team next year especially on the D will look much different i think than what Beane has got this season . 

Edited January 5 by T master

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

55 minutes ago, mannc said:

He can also play safety.  It’s called scheme flexibility.

But can he play special teams?

[MrEpsYtown]

53 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s gonna be a phenomenon.  If he’s there when we select- get ready for him to be the pick.  Yes, we need WR.  I prefer WR, but we also need elite super stars.  Cooper has a chance to be just that, especially in McDs system.  He can do it all.  Special player imo.  It’s still early in the process, but I don’t think he’ll be there when we pick.  

Gonna be tough for a team to tell him he’s playing S if he wants to play CB.  10M aav difference after the rookie contract.  If I’m cooper, I’m telling the world I’m playing corner

 

Yeah I agree. And I think ultimately he will, I think it just depends on scheme fit. The dude makes plays all over the place. 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

But can he play special teams?

 

All joking aside, he's probably the best returner in this draft and would immediately fill Hyde's spot of "safe catcher" if not full time return duties.

 

 

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

He will probably be gone before the Bills draft but if he is there, I don't think they'll pass on him.  I think WR is their biggest need but I also think there are some really good WR prospects that will be available on day two.  Prior to the draft last year, I remember hearing that this draft will have about 80 guys with round 1 or 2 grades.  If that proves to be true, the Bills should be able to get two or three impact players.  Given that Beane pulled Kincaid and Torrence out of a poor draft class, I am optimistic.  Until we know what happens in free agency, it's really hard to project the Bills' draft.

And you don’t think some really good safeties will be there on day 2?  Your way of thinking is why WR is our biggest need. Waiting is what got us in trouble. Every draft, there is a run in WRs at the beginning of the second round. So we should just boot the position altogether until the fourth again?  Nah. Hard pass on this idea. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Yeah, I think he fits like a glove in this defense as a corner or safety, can play nickel, outside etc. Crazy athlete and knows how to play zone. A swiss army knife player, he does remind me of a young Micah Hyde. I am not sure they go safety round 1 but the value may be there in the back half of the first round. Ideally, as a lot of people have mentioned you get a WR early, but I would not be surprised if they go secondary or defensive line. Something has to give at safety, but there is a strong free-agent class for safeties so we shall see. All the hype on DeJean is whether or not he will be a corner...I think he could play corner, ala Micah Hyde/Minkah Fitzpatrick types...but he's going to be a better safety imo. For the combine, it's going to probably come down to his 40, which as a track guy, should be pretty good. I dunno...I see faster Micah Hyde..

 

 

 

 

Important to note that there is almost always a good to excellent free agent class of safeties. 

 

For a reason.

 

And that the Bills defense has produced All Pro seasons from two different bargain free agent safeties.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’m like Jeremy White on WGR I am seriously on WR train this off season in round 1 but if there is one defensive player who I would honestly think about taking it would be this guy.

Prior to his injury he was basically a one man secondary at Iowa. 

 

 

It's very simple at this point...........the #1 job of an NFL personnel department is to make your QB look good.

 

That's what changes seasons.   Not safety play.   That's relative minutia.

 

The Bills have not done nearly as much as they should have in regard to supporting Allen with WR talent and we see the results with an offense that can't function properly without Allen running.   I believe the running has taken a toll on his game with regard to technique and accuracy.     I think some of that is on his own preparation but the WR1 of this team going forward is not a "should" address........it's a "must" address.   

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

He will probably be gone before the Bills draft but if he is there, I don't think they'll pass on him.  I think WR is their biggest need but I also think there are some really good WR prospects that will be available on day two.  Prior to the draft last year, I remember hearing that this draft will have about 80 guys with round 1 or 2 grades.  If that proves to be true, the Bills should be able to get two or three impact players.  Given that Beane pulled Kincaid and Torrence out of a poor draft class, I am optimistic.  Until we know what happens in free agency, it's really hard to project the Bills' draft.

This. I hope we take a WR rd 1, but looking at the prospects-  I think we might be better off taking BPA DL, OT or DB if the right guy falls).  
 

there’s a legit top 3:  the difference between 1-3 and 4-10 is evident imo. 

 

who are the 4-10 guys and how much better is #4 than #10?  I’ve watched a fair amount of tape so far- and the 2 guys I’d be ok taking in rd 1 are Leggette and Thomas Jr..  Franklin is a possibility too.  Worthy, Mitchell, egbuka, Coleman, Walker, Polk, Burton, McConkey, Wilson are all jumbled up to me atm as guys I’d be happy with in rd 2 but don’t seem like good value in rd 1.  
 

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's very simple at this point...........the #1 job of an NFL personnel department is to make your QB look good.

 

That's what changes seasons.   Not safety play.   That's relative minutia.

 

The Bills have not done nearly as much as they should have in regard to supporting Allen with WR talent and we see the results with an offense that can't function properly without Allen running.   I believe the running has taken a toll on his game with regard to technique and accuracy.     I think some of that is on his own preparation but the WR1 of this team going forward is not a "should" address........it's a "must" address.   

Which WRs other than the top 3 intrigue you the most in rd 1 and have the potential to be a WR1?

[MrEpsYtown]

59 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Important to note that there is almost always a good to excellent free agent class of safeties. 

 

For a reason.

 

And that the Bills defense has produced All Pro seasons from two different bargain free agent safeties.

 

 

Agreed. The tricky part is to try to predict who the next round of guys are. Who is out there as an undervalued piece like Hyde and Poyer were? Cheap, slow corners who have traits that fit. 

[HappyDays]

Hopefully someone takes him before our pick and takes the temptation away from McDermott and Beane. I remember feeling anxious as Christian Gonzalez slid last year and let out a sigh of relief when the Pats took him. It forced us to make a pick that clearly helped the team more now and in the future.

[whorlnut]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

This. I hope we take a WR rd 1, but looking at the prospects-  I think we might be better off taking BPA DL, OT or DB if the right guy falls).  
 

there’s a legit top 3:  the difference between 1-3 and 4-10 is evident imo. 

 

who are the 4-10 guys and how much better is #4 than #10?  I’ve watched a fair amount of tape so far- and the 2 guys I’d be ok taking in rd 1 are Leggette and Thomas Jr..  Franklin is a possibility too.  Worthy, Mitchell, egbuka, Coleman, Walker, Polk, Burton, McConkey, Wilson are all jumbled up to me atm as guys I’d be happy with in rd 2 but don’t seem like good value in rd 1.  
 

Which WRs other than the top 3 intrigue you the most in rd 1 and have the potential to be a WR1?

You know as well as I do that there always seems to be a run on WRs at the top of the second round. I would be very nervous sitting at the end of 2 “hoping” one of the top 10 guys, as you describe, falls to me. It’s our biggest need and should be addressed in 1, imo. You can wait on the other positions, just the same as you can for WR. 

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Hopefully someone takes him before our pick and takes the temptation away from McDermott and Beane. I remember feeling anxious as Christian Gonzalez slid last year and let out a sigh of relief when the Pats took him. It forced us to make a pick that clearly helped the team more now and in the future.

Exactly. I was equally as happy when the lions took campbell. I don’t necessarily think the bills would have taken him, but it was a concern at the time. 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

You know as well as I do that there always seems to be a run on WRs at the top of the second round. I would be very nervous sitting at the end of 2 “hoping” one of the top 10 guys, as you describe, falls to me. It’s our biggest need and should be addressed in 1, imo. You can wait on the other positions, just the same as you can for WR. 

Exactly. I was equally as happy when the lions took campbell. I don’t necessarily think the bills would have taken him, but it was a concern at the time. 

It might be our biggest need.  As of now it is….but lots can change come the draft.  Lots can come out regarding prospects. Trading up in rd 2 is a lot more cost effective than trading up into rd 1.  As of now, I’d be happy if we traded up for one of the top 3 WRs, but that’ll definitely cost us our first next season and possibly our 1st and 2nd this year.  Hefty price to pay considering our cap and future contract sitch.  
 

the key is to NOT REACH according to need.  I’d rather draft a possibly elite level DL over a solid WR2.  Several of the prospects 4-10 look a lot more like Gabe Davis than they do Stefon Diggs imo.  Lots of tall X WRs that can stretch the field, but not as gifted running full route trees.  Leggette and Thomas seem to have the most potential so I’m good taking them in rd 1- but I there’s a good chance both of those guys are gone when we pick.  I think 6-7 WRs will go round 1.  
 

eager to dive deeper into this class, I’ll hold out until we win the SB or are eliminated. 

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

It might be our biggest need.  As of now it is….but lots can change come the draft.  Lots can come out regarding prospects. Trading up in rd 2 is a lot more cost effective than trading up into rd 1.  As of now, I’d be happy if we traded up for one of the top 3 WRs, but that’ll definitely cost us our first next season and possibly our 1st and 2nd this year.  Hefty price to pay considering our cap and future contract sitch.  
 

the key is to NOT REACH according to need.  I’d rather draft a possibly elite level DL over a solid WR2.  Several of the prospects 4-10 look a lot more like Gabe Davis than they do Stefon Diggs imo.  Lots of tall X WRs that can stretch the field, but not as gifted running full route trees.  Leggette and Thomas seem to have the most potential so I’m good taking them in rd 1- but I there’s a good chance both of those guys are gone when we pick.  I think 6-7 WRs will go round 1.  
 

eager to dive deeper into this class, I’ll hold out until we win the SB or are eliminated. 

I REALLY like Brian Thomas, Jr. 

[C.Biscuit97]

38 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Hopefully someone takes him before our pick and takes the temptation away from McDermott and Beane. I remember feeling anxious as Christian Gonzalez slid last year and let out a sigh of relief when the Pats took him. It forced us to make a pick that clearly helped the team more now and in the future.

A white d back is probably like a super model to McDermott. He should know how good he is at coaching the position that he doesn’t need to waste high picks on them. 

[Saint Doug]

We don’t need an OT that plays in the defensive backfield. 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's very simple at this point...........the #1 job of an NFL personnel department is to make your QB look good.

 

That's what changes seasons.   Not safety play.   That's relative minutia.

 

The Bills have not done nearly as much as they should have in regard to supporting Allen with WR talent and we see the results with an offense that can't function properly without Allen running.   I believe the running has taken a toll on his game with regard to technique and accuracy.     I think some of that is on his own preparation but the WR1 of this team going forward is not a "should" address........it's a "must" address.   

Oh I agree with Davis all but gone they need two high level receivers who can play right away but if they say land a Michael Pittman in free agency a player like cooper would tempt them enough with their age at safety and he can also play lb and corner. That they can turn around and say add a Ladd Mconkey or Johnny Wilson in round 2. If the Bills wound up with Mckonkey and Dejean you could backfill depth on defense and oline with the other picks and be set. 

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

6'3" 225 and runs a 4.3 40 yd dash. It's not DK Metcalf, he's Xavier Legette. WR/KR for Gamecocks. Not only can he be the "take the top off" type of WR, but also a "put the ball in his hands/RAC" type of guy the Bills have been coveting for years. I'm hoping he lasts until the Bills pick

Wouldn’t hate it, but I can see a player like Legette shooting up draft boards during the combine and off season processes because of his measurables.
 

From reading his scouting reports online it seems like he’s checks off a lot of boxes. He produced in college at a top conference, he has an insane athletic profile and he had a drops issue early on in his college career that has seemed to have gone away. 
 

It seems like his flaws are that he isn’t a strong blocker, he has only had one year of amazing production at the college level, his production against better competition in college wasn’t the best and he also seems to be too comfortable in contested situations that he doesn’t always get the separation that he should get given his athleticism.

 

I wouldn’t hate picking him up in the late first or trading down into the early second round getting more picks (and then using those picks to trade higher into the middle of the second) and taking this kid to try to get Josh more weapons and Diggs an heir apparent.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

It's very simple at this point...........the #1 job of an NFL personnel department is to make your QB look good.

 

That's what changes seasons.   Not safety play.   That's relative minutia.

 

The Bills have not done nearly as much as they should have in regard to supporting Allen with WR talent and we see the results with an offense that can't function properly without Allen running.   I believe the running has taken a toll on his game with regard to technique and accuracy.     I think some of that is on his own preparation but the WR1 of this team going forward is not a "should" address........it's a "must" address.   

 

McBeane have used almost as much RD1/2 draft value to acquire Josh as they did on offense in those rounds from 2018-2022.  They went Edmunds, Oliver, Ford,  traded for Diggs, Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham, Elam, and Cook.  

 

My concern is McD gets his way again and because they used their 2023 on Kincaid, figure they can go back to defense in 2024.  

[RyanC883]

for your college watchers, how does he compare to Kitchens from Miami?  The descriptions here sound similar?  

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

And you don’t think some really good safeties will be there on day 2?  Your way of thinking is why WR is our biggest need. Waiting is what got us in trouble. Every draft, there is a run in WRs at the beginning of the second round. So we should just boot the position altogether until the fourth again?  Nah. Hard pass on this idea. 

It isn't my way of thinking,  It is what I expect Beane to do based on his previous drafts. It will come down to their needs and who is available when they pick.  They will likely have multiple positions of need and Beane has shown that he will not pick based solely on need.  Unfortunately, Beane has shown that he doesn't value receivers the same way that many of us do, certainly not enough to draft a second round talent in the first round.  If he did, we wouldn't be watching the receiving clown show that they have now.

 

As things relate to Dejean, he is a game changing talent.  I seriously doubt that he falls far enough to get to the Bills.  

[whorlnut]

7 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

It isn't my way of thinking,  It is what I expect Beane to do based on his previous drafts. It will come down to their needs and who is available when they pick.  They will likely have multiple positions of need and Beane has shown that he will not pick based solely on need.  Unfortunately, Beane has shown that he doesn't value receivers the same way that many of us do, certainly not enough to draft a second round talent in the first round.  If he did, we wouldn't be watching the receiving clown show that they have now.

 

As things relate to Dejean, he is a game changing talent.  I seriously doubt that he falls far enough to get to the Bills.  

He doesn’t pick based on need?  Are you sure?  Rousseau, Elam, Kincaid…all three play a position that they clearly targeted in those respective drafts. I would argue that Beane usually 100% drafts based off need in the first round. I’m fact, I don’t really think he drafts BPA until day 3. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

19 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If he's available at our #1 pick, I don't see any way McBeane passes him up.

 

And even tho I'm banging the table for a WR, considering this class, I'd be fine waiting to Round 2 on a WR if it meant getting Dejean.

 

He'd be an immediate starter at Safety, and pretty much McD's cream dream of a defensive player.

I don't care if the 2nd coming of Dion is there, go WR!  I have had it with defensive top picks and lesser talent at WR

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

50 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

He doesn’t pick based on need?  Are you sure?  Rousseau, Elam, Kincaid…all three play a position that they clearly targeted in those respective drafts. I would argue that Beane usually 100% drafts based off need in the first round. I’m fact, I don’t really think he drafts BPA until day 3. 

I said that he doesn't pick solely on need.  If he did, Kincaid would not have been selected.  He would have reached for a linebacker or a wide receiver or an interior o-lineman.  Tight end was not a pressing need.  Like most other teams, they look at the predraft grading (value of the players) and compare that to the value of the pick. If the value of the player and value of the pick lines up for multiple players, they probably select a position of need. 

[whorlnut]

48 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

I said that he doesn't pick solely on need.  If he did, Kincaid would not have been selected.  He would have reached for a linebacker or a wide receiver or an interior o-lineman.  Tight end was not a pressing need.  Like most other teams, they look at the predraft grading (value of the players) and compare that to the value of the pick. If the value of the player and value of the pick lines up for multiple players, they probably select a position of need. 

I disagree again. Kincaid was the “pass catcher” that Beane talked about in his end of season conference. Yes he’s a TE, but they were chasing 12 personnel for a while and Kincaid had arguably the best hands in the draft. He’s literally exactly what Beane talked about.  Also…he did take an interior olineman in the Second and talked all off-season that they thought the successor to edmunds was already in the roster. It was posters like you that didn’t agree with that so you conveniently ignored all those comments. 

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's very simple at this point...........the #1 job of an NFL personnel department is to make your QB look good.

 

That's what changes seasons.   Not safety play.   That's relative minutia.

 

The Bills have not done nearly as much as they should have in regard to supporting Allen with WR talent and we see the results with an offense that can't function properly without Allen running.   I believe the running has taken a toll on his game with regard to technique and accuracy.     I think some of that is on his own preparation but the WR1 of this team going forward is not a "should" address........it's a "must" address.   

I wholeheartedly agree with this. That's why I've been clamoring for a RB since acquiring Josh/Diggs. I've been imagining a JT28/Breece Hall behind Josh, toting the rock. They lucked out with Pro Bowl Cook, but failed with Boogie Basham and probably Kaiir Elam. I'm still holding out hope on the latter, but still imagining what could have been

[Rico]

1st round pick on this CB?

 

 

 

 

[RiotAct]

11 minutes ago, Rico said:

1st round pick on this CB?

 

 

 

 

Looks like a cross between Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson.  Pass.

[Rico]

1 minute ago, RiotAct said:

Looks like a cross between Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson.  Pass.

I will reserve judgment until I read Sherlock Holmes' take.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I disagree again. Kincaid was the “pass catcher” that Beane talked about in his end of season conference. Yes he’s a TE, but they were chasing 12 personnel for a while and Kincaid had arguably the best hands in the draft. He’s literally exactly what Beane talked about.  Also…he did take an interior olineman in the Second and talked all off-season that they thought the successor to edmunds was already in the roster. It was posters like you that didn’t agree with that so you conveniently ignored all those comments. 

If you're going to be a troll, at least try to be good at it.

[whorlnut]

16 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

If you're going to be a troll, at least try to be good at it.

So disagreeing with you makes me a troll?  Ok dude…

[TBBills Fan]

I don't follow college ball. I assumed by the title he was talking about an Tackle. Lol

[scuba guy]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:22 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Round 1: Cooper Dejean

Round 2: Legette/Polk

Round 3: Nazir Stackhouse

 

oooh weee, that'd be a helluva draft...

We don't have a 3rd round pick traded in to green Bay.

 

Skip that we get 1 for the 18 year old lb what's his name 

[machine gun kelly]

It’s funny as I’m listening to Paul Alexander, who is a line coach for almost 40 years.  He does a spot each week on MTC on NFLR.  He likes the Bills O Line more than the Fins D Line.  He banged on Von Miller which was well deserved.  Alexander states PFF rates linemen Green, Blue, Orange, and Red.  Surprisingly S. Brown as a blue.  Orange on Torrence, and a Blue on Dawkins.

 

Im still on the WR train.

[Billznut]

I think it’s safe to say WR and safety will BOTH be selected within our first three picks this draft. But WR generally would seem to be the choice to go with in the first. A lot will depend where we end up drafting. To get one of the top WRs we may need to trade up a bit to get in the top 15-20 at minimum. Especially if we end up with a draft position of 25-32. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I wholeheartedly agree with this. That's why I've been clamoring for a RB since acquiring Josh/Diggs. I've been imagining a JT28/Breece Hall behind Josh, toting the rock. They lucked out with Pro Bowl Cook, but failed with Boogie Basham and probably Kaiir Elam. I'm still holding out hope on the latter, but still imagining what could have been

 

Haven't you gotten all of that at RB with Cook?   5.1 yards per carry over 300+ carries.   Huge per play production in the pass game.   

 

And that wasn't really luck.   They used a late 2nd rounder on a RB........which is a ton to spend on that position.    Cook has been better than those guys.    Injury is a factor there but Hall had a massive workload in college.   Same with Travis Etienne.   I wanted no part of RB's who had already put up 700+ carries in college. 

 

It is a good point to be made in this thread though.........the further you stray from the primary objectives of premium positions with a priority to those that make your elite QB look elite........the uglier it looks when you miss.    I'd hate to see them draft a safety in round 1 and have him turn into an injury risk..........that would be a cautionary tale about not putting appropriate value on positions.    

 

Good safeties(like RB's) are very easy to find.    Not so much the case with QB/LT/PassRusher/WR1.  

Edited January 6 by BADOLBILZ

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:12 PM, 78thealltimegreat said:

I’m like Jeremy White on WGR I am seriously on WR train this off season in round 1 but if there is one defensive player who I would honestly think about taking it would be this guy.

Prior to his injury he was basically a one man secondary at Iowa. 

Will he be there at #32 ?

[BigAl2526]

DeJean has played some CB in college, but I expect if the Bills drafted him, they'd be looking to play him as a safety.  My first choice would be a WR.  I'd like to see the Bills up their speed at WR.  They've got some 4.4 guys, but the closest thing they've got to a true burner is Deonte Harty, and he's only mane one big play I can recall all season at WR.  He's greatly limited by his size.  Legette in the second round would be a great get, but Beane has about as much chance of drafting Legette in the bottom half of round 2 as he has of winning a billion dollar Powerball jackpot.  I just don't see DeJean has having the kind of big time impact Beane and McDermott hope for in their first round picks.  He would, however, have a chance to be a solid contributor if the Bills did draft him.

[78thealltimegreat]

6 hours ago, Rico said:

1st round pick on this CB?

 

 

 

 

Yes he is that good as in he missed the last two games with an injury and their bowl game and was still a unanimous first team All American good. He also has a side benefit of being the best punt returner in the draft and considering  how awful the Bills special teams have been this year that’s an added bonus.

[BADOLBILZ]

23 hours ago, NewEra said:

This. I hope we take a WR rd 1, but looking at the prospects-  I think we might be better off taking BPA DL, OT or DB if the right guy falls).  
 

there’s a legit top 3:  the difference between 1-3 and 4-10 is evident imo. 

 

who are the 4-10 guys and how much better is #4 than #10?  I’ve watched a fair amount of tape so far- and the 2 guys I’d be ok taking in rd 1 are Leggette and Thomas Jr..  Franklin is a possibility too.  Worthy, Mitchell, egbuka, Coleman, Walker, Polk, Burton, McConkey, Wilson are all jumbled up to me atm as guys I’d be happy with in rd 2 but don’t seem like good value in rd 1.  
 

Which WRs other than the top 3 intrigue you the most in rd 1 and have the potential to be a WR1?

 

There are a lot of them........it's a deep draft at WR.    But I suspect 6-9 to go in round 1.    That kind of depth might have lasted a full 3 rounds back in the late 2010's when teams were gun-shy about 1st round WR's and the impact of WR talent wrt reaching and winning SB's wasn't as obvious to some.   Walker is probably the most talented of the 2nd round guys you listed, IMO.