Bills cornerback Kaiir Elam says he tore ankle ligament in preseason and tried to play through it

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

Um, wouldn’t this mean the Bills/Elam broke NFL rules about reporting injuries?

Elam wasn’t on the injury report with an ankle until late October.

 

I’m skeptical…

 

This Bills regime has always taken a less is more approach to the injury report. And they are far from the only team in the league to do so. @Beck Water and I were talking about the Jerry Hughes wrist ligament example the other day when it was discussed in relation to whether there might be something lingering with TBass. 

 

The definition of "reportable injury" be league rules is one that causes a player to miss a game, fail to complete a game or prevents them from practicing fully. That last element is definitely interpreted differently by different teams. 

 

[Freddie's Dead]

21 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

What difference does it make if he is on IR or just a scratch?

 

The roster spot.

[Scott7975]

Just now, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The roster spot.

 

Who did they need to put on the roster?  That takes extra cap space for what?

[Einstein]

44 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

The definition of "reportable injury" be league rules is one that causes a player to miss a game, fail to complete a game or prevents them from practicing fully. That last element is definitely interpreted differently by different teams. 

 

 

This must be how the Bills got around it.

 

Seems like the injury report is practically worthless at this point.

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Who did they need to put on the roster?  That takes extra cap space for what?

 

Dave Mason time.

[Donuts and Doritos]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

Did anybody say it's healed? I don't have the BN.

 

He's back practicing, opened his 21 day window. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Who did they need to put on the roster?  That takes extra cap space for what?

Not sure but they added Linval Joseph right around the same time if I recall. Also Douglas was added to the roster. 

[BuffaloRebound]

8 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

He’s worth more than “anything the Bills can get” why would you trade him when he’s at his absolute lowest value? He’s on a rookie contract, there’s no reason to trade him in the off-season for nothing, keep him, see if he has something, and then if you need to move on in training camp there is always an injury and teams are looking for guys-you’ll have more value then 

Because Bills clearly didn’t trust in him before the injury and now a sprained ankle effectively cost him a whole season.  Cutting him costs $8m in dead money.  Trading him for anything saves $5m in cap over next 2 years.  Give that money to Jackson or a safety. The trade for Douglas sealed his fate.  He ain’t beating out Douglas or Benford next year.  

[strive_for_five_guy]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Because Bills clearly didn’t trust in him before the injury and now a sprained ankle effectively cost him a whole season.  Cutting him costs $8m in dead money.  Trading him for anything saves $5m in cap over next 2 years.  Give that money to Jackson or a safety. The trade for Douglas sealed his fate.  He ain’t beating out Douglas or Benford next year.  

They might need/want to move either Douglas or Benford to safety, given potential departures of Hyde and Poyer.  If Elam can step up to be a starting level CB too, that would certainly help if the DB situation.

[aristocrat]

if he is back to last seasons form we look good down the stretch just wish he'd be available for this weekends game. 

[BBFL]

12 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I just don’t get why he’d wait so long to tell the story 

He broke ligaments in his hand and tried to write through it…

50 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

They might need/want to move either Douglas or Benford to safety, given potential departures of Hyde and Poyer.  If Elam can step up to be a starting level CB too, that would certainly help if the DB situation.

 
What’s going on with Rapp? I know some aren’t fond of him but he’s had some decent play at times. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

4 minutes ago, BBFL said:

He broke ligaments in his hand and tried to write through it…

 
What’s going on with Rapp? I know some aren’t fond of him but he’s had some decent play at times. 

Rapp’s on a one year deal.  His play and wreckless abandonment scare me more than anything.  I’d rather find someone else in FA or the draft before bring him back.

[BBFL]

1 minute ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Rapp’s on a one year deal.  His play and wreckless abandonment scare me more than anything.  I’d rather find someone else in FA or the draft before bring him back.

This year though? Amos is about the only option as a FA right now. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

20 minutes ago, BBFL said:

This year though? Amos is about the only option as a FA right now. 

Sorry, I was looking ahead to next season on this question.  I think you gotta play things out with the guys you have at this point, including Rapp.  Next year is where their secondary needs an overhaul, in my opinion.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Because Bills clearly didn’t trust in him before the injury and now a sprained ankle effectively cost him a whole season.  Cutting him costs $8m in dead money.  Trading him for anything saves $5m in cap over next 2 years.  Give that money to Jackson or a safety. The trade for Douglas sealed his fate.  He ain’t beating out Douglas or Benford next year.  

Weird. Up until very late in camp Elam was running with the 1s quite frequently until Benford suddenly passed him on the depth chart. Many here were curious as to why and if Elam was slowed by a torn ankle ligament (not the same as a "sprain") that would explain what happened there. Not a trust issue. 

 

The Douglas trade has no bearing on Elam's future. It may have more to do with Tre White's. Benford may or may not be a CB next year. Then there's the whole issue of injury. Having too many CBs is a good problem to have. 

 

As far as beating Douglas or Benford next year...never say never. I seem to remember a LOT of people laughing at the notion that Bernard could even compete for the MLB job. 

[boater]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

This isn't pretty: players target their opponents injuries. 

For that reason, players who are dinged up don't want to show on the injury report unless they miss enough practice that the league requires it of them.  Players who are actually injured don't want to disclose specifics of their injuries.

 

Plus, all that aside, some players like to preserve their medical privacy.

 

I wonder if it originally wasn't diagnosed as torn, or if it was only slightly torn but then tore worse.

The NFL could go the NHL route:

 

"He has an upper body injury"

"He has a lower body injury"

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Weird. Up until very late in camp Elam was running with the 1s quite frequently until Benford suddenly passed him on the depth chart. Many here were curious as to why and if Elam was slowed by a torn ankle ligament (not the same as a "sprain") that would explain what happened there. Not a trust issue. 

 

The Douglas trade has no bearing on Elam's future. It may have more to do with Tre White's. Benford may or may not be a CB next year. Then there's the whole issue of injury. Having too many CBs is a good problem to have. 

 

As far as beating Douglas or Benford next year...never say never. I seem to remember a LOT of people laughing at the notion that Bernard could even compete for the MLB job. 

 

I'd love to see Elam come back and start (also not holding my breath at this point) - i'm also not trading him for... essentially nothing? 

The available safeties aren't... all-pros?  But I do think McBeane have a type of guy they like for and found with Poyer and Hyde.  There will be a few guys who get paid a lot from this group, and usually the next tier where we'd be looking can be where you find some decent value.  I hope we get 2 of them honestly, so that you can enter the draft and not be pigeon holed at the position.  Stay away from "you've heard of them" veterans, because they're usually too old for the term they want *COUGH* VON MILLER *COUGH*.  Someone like Chinn maybe, or Jones from Miami, even dugger who i know had some pre-draft interest.  Whoever you think would excel in this defense.  

[BuffaloRebound]

23 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Weird. Up until very late in camp Elam was running with the 1s quite frequently until Benford suddenly passed him on the depth chart. Many here were curious as to why and if Elam was slowed by a torn ankle ligament (not the same as a "sprain") that would explain what happened there. Not a trust issue. 

 

The Douglas trade has no bearing on Elam's future. It may have more to do with Tre White's. Benford may or may not be a CB next year. Then there's the whole issue of injury. Having too many CBs is a good problem to have. 

 

As far as beating Douglas or Benford next year...never say never. I seem to remember a LOT of people laughing at the notion that Bernard could even compete for the MLB job. 

Benford has consistently been ahead of Elam since they were drafted.  And Bernard got his opportunity and ran with it.  Plus as a 3rd rounder he’s basically a vet minimum guy instead of a $3-4m cap hit per year that Elam as a 1st rounder is.  Bills had to spend a 3rd rounder on Douglas to shore up the CB position and now Elam’s offering up excuses to the media that border on throwing his employer under the bus.  Most signs point to this guy being a bust.  Better to trade him for a 4th or 5th rounder and use that $3m elsewhere.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I'd love to see Elam come back and start (also not holding my breath at this point) - i'm also not trading him for... essentially nothing? 

The available safeties aren't... all-pros?  But I do think McBeane have a type of guy they like for and found with Poyer and Hyde.  There will be a few guys who get paid a lot from this group, and usually the next tier where we'd be looking can be where you find some decent value.  I hope we get 2 of them honestly, so that you can enter the draft and not be pigeon holed at the position.  Stay away from "you've heard of them" veterans, because they're usually too old for the term they want *COUGH* VON MILLER *COUGH*.  Someone like Chinn maybe, or Jones from Miami, even dugger who i know had some pre-draft interest.  Whoever you think would excel in this defense.  

Funny, I just mentioned Duggar in another post. He is EXACTLY who I see Beane targeting if he hits FA. He would be an excellent fit on this defense. The other Safety I would like if he's there would be Winfield, but I think he'll be too expensive. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Benford has consistently been ahead of Elam since they were drafted.  And Bernard got his opportunity and ran with it.  Plus as a 3rd rounder he’s basically a vet minimum guy instead of a $3-4m cap hit per year that Elam as a 1st rounder is.  Bills had to spend a 3rd rounder on Douglas to shore up the CB position and now Elam’s offering up excuses to the media that border on throwing his employer under the bus.  Most signs point to this guy being a bust.  Better to trade him for a 4th or 5th rounder and use that $3m elsewhere.  

 Benford was clearly ahead of him...last season. You can go back and look at all the camp notes and see that Elam was clearly running ahead in the battle this season. 

 

And the Bills didn't "spend a 3rd rounder". They slide a 3rd for a 5th and this was likely more due to the White injury. 

 

You seem to think Elam is what? Lying? Or that if he's telling the truth having torn ligament in your ankle would have a down effect on a CB? 

[T master]

14 hours ago, Bogie_Klinkhammer said:

 

Buffalo Bills cornerback Kaiir Elam told The Buffalo News after Wednesday’s walk-through that a torn deltoid ligament in his ankle forced him to injured reserve on Nov. 2.

The deltoid ligament is the main ligament of the inner ankle.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/buffalo-bills-kaiir-elam-injury-torn-ligament-nfl/article_740f0eda-99f5-11ee-b3ab-abe44fea143b.html#tncms-source=login

 

 

I would definitely say that that could have some impact on his play for sure ! I hope he's back to full health & can be the player they thought he would be when they chose him in the draft . According to Cosell he's the most athletic corner the Bills have and could be a very welcome sight on the field if he can even play close to his status, let's hope !! 

[BuffaloRebound]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 Benford was clearly ahead of him...last season. You can go back and look at all the camp notes and see that Elam was clearly running ahead in the battle this season. 

 

And the Bills didn't "spend a 3rd rounder". They slide a 3rd for a 5th and this was likely more due to the White injury. 

 

You seem to think Elam is what? Lying? Or that if he's telling the truth having torn ligament in your ankle would have a down effect on a CB? 

He got beat out by a 6th rounder last year, and has been effectively out for 4 months with a sprained ankle that he’s calling a torn ligament and kinda suggesting the team made him try to play through it.  Say what you want about McBeane, but they’ve always been very conservative with player injuries.  Major red flags around Elam.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 Benford was clearly ahead of him...last season. You can go back and look at all the camp notes and see that Elam was clearly running ahead in the battle this season. 

 

And the Bills didn't "spend a 3rd rounder". They slide a 3rd for a 5th and this was likely more due to the White injury. 

 

You seem to think Elam is what? Lying? Or that if he's telling the truth having torn ligament in your ankle would have a down effect on a CB? 

 

We had 2 3rd's too actually.  I wonder which one we used.  

[BuffaloRebound]

17 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

We had 2 3rd's too actually.  I wonder which one we used.  

definitely not the comp one since we don’t even have it yet.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

He got beat out by a 6th rounder last year, and has been effectively out for 4 months with a sprained ankle that he’s calling a torn ligament and kinda suggesting the team made him try to play through it.  Say what you want about McBeane, but they’ve always been very conservative with player injuries.  Major red flags around Elam.  

Again, you call a torn ligament a sprain. Did you ever think that maybe he's calling it a torn ligament...because that's what it was? I am pretty sure he would have more access to his medical records than you correct? 

 

And yes, Buffalo is always super conservative with injury. Like Groot, who has played all year with a broken bone in his foot. Or, you know, certainly that they have been super conservative with their franchise QB who has played through a shoulder injury all year. And an UCL all last year. No one ever played injured on this (or any other) team. No, siree Bob.

 

Laughable.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

definitely not the comp one since we don’t even have it yet.  

 

You can probably write it into the trade though, no?  Like - the later of buffalo's 3rd round picks or something.  

[TheFunPolice]

if he's healthy and he can add some support for the stretch run, that would be huge

 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Again, you call a torn ligament a sprain. Did you ever think that maybe he's calling it a torn ligament...because that's what it was? I am pretty sure he would have more access to his medical records than you correct? 

 

And yes, Buffalo is always super conservative with injury. Like Groot, who has played all year with a broken bone in his foot. Or, you know, certainly that they have been super conservative with their franchise QB who has played through a shoulder injury all year. And an UCL all last year. No one ever played injured on this (or any other) team. No, siree Bob.

 

Laughable.

So you’re taking Elam’s side here?  Meanie McDermott made him play when he should’ve got surgery.  Yet he still didn’t get surgery when he went on IR.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

So you’re taking Elam’s side here?  Meanie McDermott made him play when he should’ve got surgery.  Yet he still didn’t get surgery when he went on IR.  

 

I think maybe he thought he could play on it - then everyone got hurt and he could not play well on it.  

[Solomon Grundy]

I'd prefer to have Elam ready for Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle. 

[BuffaloMatt]

yawn

[FireChans]

Player makes injury sound worse months after playing horrible to preserve some shreds of reputation.

 

Common tactic. 
 

Gabe’s lingering hamstring is up next.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

16 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I just don’t get why he’d wait so long to tell the story 

Sounds like the Bills trainers are at fault here. 

 

They would advise the Coaching Staff as to the severity of the injury and recommendation on playing status vs. IR. 

 

That's on the medical team, not the player. 

[Utah John]

If he couldn't play effectively with that injury why didn't the Bills put him on IR and let him have the surgery he needs, so he'll be back and ready to go next year?  Why let him linger when he couldn't play effectively?

[dave mcbride]

15 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

so once called out that he’s had a month where opponents wouldn’t target him youve progressed from reporters needing to camp outside his house and stalk him for him to share his injury update or possibly the silence being to avoid being treated like a notoriously out of touch with human behavior superstar qb? 
 

and I’m the one being strange saying I’m surprised he didn’t comment on his injury a couple weeks ago, when his reputation was getting shredded and he went on IR?

It would seem to me that teams advise players to not speak about injuries to protect them from targeting. Lest we forget, immediately after the 2015 season Robert Woods had surgery for a torn groin which he had been playing for a while (and which had never been reported as such; it was a "leg-probable" situation for the second half of the season) and Chris Hogan had surgery for torn ligaments in his wrist that was never reported at all. Think about this year: we had no idea about the extent of Dawson Knox's injury (and we blamed him for bad hands) when in fact he was playing with torn ligaments in his wrist. Both teams and players don't let this stuff out, and it's not for "toughness" reasons; it's to hide useful information from opponents. 

27 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Player makes injury sound worse months after playing horrible to preserve some shreds of reputation.

 

Common tactic. 
 

Gabe’s lingering hamstring is up next.

It's usually actually the opposite, and you're wrong. We tend to find out later that players played through injuries that were a lot worse than the injury reports indicated.

[msw2112]

16 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Maybe he didn’t care what the outside world thought, or didn’t want to come off as making excuses.  Those are just a couple reasons I can think of as to not just run to social media.

 

No doubt.  Some players/people are more private, for whatever reason.  I just watched the Barry Sanders documentary this week.  One of the best players in the history of the league and a beast on the field, but a very low key guy off the field.  He HATED notoriety and and avoided the spotlight at all costs.  I'm not comparing Elam's on-the-field talent to Sanders' in any way, but just citing him as an example of an NFL player who prefers to fly under the radar and may not really care what the outside world thought.  Maybe Elam is that type of personality.  And, as stated above, as a young player trying to make his way in the league, maybe he didn't want to come off as making excuses.

 

Obviously, the Bills were aware of the injury and feel that Elam has some future potential, as they didn't trade or cut him.  I think he still has a chance to be a productive NFL player.  He has the athletic ability and there are no indications that he's lazy or not a team player (that I'm aware of).  Maybe his lack of playing time is a combination of several factors:  a) learning to play zone vs. man; b) Benford playing well and having the zone background; and c) more recently, the injury.  And, given the theory that he's more of a private person, maybe he's chosen to quietly work on his game with an eye towards the future rather than making a lot of noise about a lack of playing time.

Edited December 14, 2023 by msw2112

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It would seem to me that teams advise players to not speak about injuries to protect them from targeting. Lest we forget, immediately after the 2015 season Robert Woods had surgery for a torn groin which he had been playing for a while (and which had never been reported as such; it was a "leg-probable" situation for the second half of the season) and Chris Hogan had surgery for torn ligaments in his wrist that was never reported at all. Think about this year: we had no idea about the extent of Dawson Knox's injury (and we blamed him for bad hands) when in fact he was playing with torn ligaments in his wrist. Both teams and players don't let this stuff out, and it's not for "toughness" reasons; it's to hide useful information from opponents. 

It's usually actually the opposite, and you're wrong. We tend to find out later that players played through injuries that were a lot worse than the injury reports indicated.

Elam wasn’t even on the injury report until mid-fall, so how does that make any sense?

 
Why come out and say this now when he’s been on IR for a month?

 

You know when we hear about terrible lingering injuries that were mysteriously absent weeks prior? After they play crappy and we get knocked out of the playoffs. Diggs and Beasley play terrible? Oh, they were actually just super injured! 
 

Sure. 
 

Everyone is hurt, it’s the NFL.

 

Elam has a sprained ankle. Not a unique injury

Edited December 14, 2023 by FireChans

[NickelCity]

It's plausible this is to provide cover for poor performance. I hope it's not, and is in fact the culprit in his inability to contribute this year. But I'm not pinning hopes on it. 

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Elam wasn’t even on the injury report until mid-fall, so how does that make any sense?

 
Why come out and say this now when he’s been on IR for a month?

 

You know when we hear about terrible lingering injuries that were mysteriously absent weeks prior? After they play crappy and we get knocked out of the playoffs. Diggs and Beasley play terrible? Oh, they were actually just super injured! 
 

Sure. 
 

Everyone is hurt, it’s the NFL.

 

Elam has a sprained ankle. Not a unique injury

Hogan was never on an injury report. Jerry Hughes was never on an injury report when he was playing with a significant wrist injury. Teams do this ALL THE TIME. 

[FireChans]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Hogan was never on an injury report. Jerry Hughes was never on an injury report when he was playing with a significant wrist injury. Teams do this ALL THE TIME. 

When did Jerry and Hogan announce their injuries?

1 minute ago, NickelCity said:

It's plausible this is to provide cover for poor performance. I hope it's not, and is in fact the culprit in his inability to contribute this year. But I'm not pinning hopes on it. 

I think it probably didn’t help his performance, but he was flat out beat by Benford in preseason.