Fixing the Officiating

[dgrochester55]

I think that fans need to be more unified when this happens.    Looking at various sites and social media sites this week, I noticed that too many Eagles fans this week were dismissive "Your just sad that you lost", "refs did great" even though they were robbed during the Super Bowl and should have been able to relate as much as anyone.   

 

This is not about just the "Bills being screwed" We need to be as vocal when games like the Jets/Chiefs and 49ers/Browns happen or even when others perceive that Buffalo was handed a win in the Giants game.   This is about the big picture and the integrity of the game.    Players and fans deserve better than what the officials are giving us.

[Freak-O]

Offensive holding is one of the worst I think. It’s so random what they call and not and it can really stall a drive and kill a game. 

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

I think that fans need to be more unified when this happens.    Looking at various sites and social media sites this week, I noticed that too many Eagles fans this week were dismissive "Your just sad that you lost", "refs did great" even though they were robbed during the Super Bowl and should have been able to relate as much as anyone.   

 

This is not about just the "Bills being screwed" We need to be as vocal when games like the Jets/Chiefs and 49ers/Browns happen or even when others perceive that Buffalo was handed a win in the Giants game.   This is about the big picture and the integrity of the game.    Players and fans deserve better than what the officials are giving us.

 

 

Yeah, that's the way it could be changed.   By unifying for change.   

 

But it isn't going to happen because each fan base is pitted against the other and bad officiating only deepens those bonds to individual teams.   

 

That's almost impossible to change at this point.

 

Maybe if some team won like 5-6 straight SB's and benefitted from some horrible officiating calls then the rest of the league's fan bases would unite in revolt against the product..........but as it stands the NFL is the most competitive major pro sport and the only one where every team has a realistic chance to win every week as well as the same chance at long stretches of success and SB wins if managed well.

 

If something really threatened to kill the golden goose the NFL would do something about it...........sorta' like how the Bills organization interjected themselves into the then growingly team-separate "Bills Mafia" culture.   The last thing the NFL wants are fan bases(or the collective) becoming self aware of their influence and dictating policy to the league or its teams.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Adding missed or wrong calls to the red flag challenge brings about a more uniform way of officiating throughout the league. Officials want to cast a blind eye on penalties they get challenged. Bad officiating becomes easy to identify and removed If deemed necessary. It doesn't slow down the game because the rules to its usage remains the same. Players, coaches, fans. We all deserve fair officiating.

 

 

First of all, there is no proof that officiating isn't broadly "fair".

 

It may be very often incorrect but it doesn't appear to tilt the overall results in the favor of just a few teams,  so it is therefore "fair".

 

What you are actually asking for is "better" officiating.

 

Not sure how you've determined that you or anyone involved "deserve" better.

 

If you are paying to watch the NFL for all these years then you have been voting for this level of officiating all along with your wallet.   So you are getting what you deserve.   If you only watch it for free, you aren't paying for it so you don't deserve anything.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

I think a league official should meet with the lead referee and go over game film. Ask their reasoning behind the call/non call. If reasoning is not sufficient, then suspend a game. The only way to effect is through the wallet. JMO.

[Chaos]

2 hours ago, dgrochester55 said:

I think that fans need to be more unified when this happens.    Looking at various sites and social media sites this week, I noticed that too many Eagles fans this week were dismissive "Your just sad that you lost", "refs did great" even though they were robbed during the Super Bowl and should have been able to relate as much as anyone.   

 

This is not about just the "Bills being screwed" We need to be as vocal when games like the Jets/Chiefs and 49ers/Browns happen or even when others perceive that Buffalo was handed a win in the Giants game.   This is about the big picture and the integrity of the game.    Players and fans deserve better than what the officials are giving us.

When Goodell said that the Bills being disadvantaged in London by playing an already aclimated team was "an experiment", I think we learned the league does not really have "integrity of the game" at the top its values regarding its entertainment product. 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Right. The “point” if you want to call it that people here and elsewhere are now clinging to is things like the WWE and NFL are both classified as “entertainment” or some such similar definition. Except they’re not. Not nowhere in the various laws that govern legal sports gambling will you see the NFL and the WWE as equivalent or in the same class. They are distinct and what you can bet on is subject to various state laws, not one overarching federal law. 
 

basically some salty fan after the Eagles game went on truth social and scrolled around too much and this is what we get here now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

 

Where the comparison to wrestling comes in is that wrestling promoters/script writers have always known that perceived "unfair" officiating enrages and engages fans so they write comically bad officiating in.

 

But the NFL doesn't have to script bad officiating.........they just make it(or leave it) difficult to officiate and they get the same effect.

 

MLB is on the verge of making the sport virtually free of officiating drama........and I guarantee you they are worried about taking that last real element of uncertainty out of the game.

[Figster]

8 hours ago, Freak-O said:

Offensive holding is one of the worst I think. It’s so random what they call and not and it can really stall a drive and kill a game. 

Needs to be changed to a 5 yard penalty IMO. 

 

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

First of all, there is no proof that officiating isn't broadly "fair".

 

It may be very often incorrect but it doesn't appear to tilt the overall results in the favor of just a few teams,  so it is therefore "fair".

 

What you are actually asking for is "better" officiating.

 

Not sure how you've determined that you or anyone involved "deserve" better.

 

If you are paying to watch the NFL for all these years then you have been voting for this level of officiating all along with your wallet.   So you are getting what you deserve.   If you only watch it for free, you aren't paying for it so you don't deserve anything.

 

Fair enough,

 

In all fairness the integrity of the outcome could greatly benefit from shall we say better officiating. Adding missed or wrong calls to the red flag challenge is an easy way to correct mistakes real time. 

[That's No Moon]

The officiating is exactly the way they want it to be. Exactly.

[boco357]

They have a sky judge that only comes out for illegal man down field.  You mean to tell me they immediately saw the AJ Brown play wasn't a fumble?  Or they don't want to overstep on the officials?

[Billsfan1972]

15 minutes ago, boco357 said:

They have a sky judge that only comes out for illegal man down field.  You mean to tell me they immediately saw the AJ Brown play wasn't a fumble?  Or they don't want to overstep on the officials?

It was bang bang and they weren't overturning the on field call.  Regardless the officiating sux

[Orlando Tim]

19 hours ago, dgrochester55 said:

I think that fans need to be more unified when this happens.    Looking at various sites and social media sites this week, I noticed that too many Eagles fans this week were dismissive "Your just sad that you lost", "refs did great" even though they were robbed during the Super Bowl and should have been able to relate as much as anyone.   

 

This is not about just the "Bills being screwed" We need to be as vocal when games like the Jets/Chiefs and 49ers/Browns happen or even when others perceive that Buffalo was handed a win in the Giants game.   This is about the big picture and the integrity of the game.    Players and fans deserve better than what the officials are giving us.

The Bills Giants game was horribly officiated both ways. The final play was much more of a PI then the previous play which was called. They did not call the two obvious PI in first quarter were the Giant DBs tripped our receivers. Officiating is atrocious across the league but to act like that last play for the Giants is why we won when bad officiating is why it was close is not true. 

[Drew21PA]

They don’t want to

 

ots as simple as putting them on payroll and if they mess up they are fined and or fired

 

wont happen - they want that element of human mishap I think

[Orlando Tim]

this is an easy fix- as an official you don't look for the result of a penalty, you look for the penalty. He saw a guy falling forward and a blocker behind him and made a bad assumption. These calls should not exist.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

18 hours ago, Figster said:

Needs to be changed to a 5 yard penalty IMO. 

 

Fair enough,

 

In all fairness the integrity of the outcome could greatly benefit from shall we say better officiating. Adding missed or wrong calls to the red flag challenge is an easy way to correct mistakes real time. 

 

 

The majority of the worst calls now are so subjective that I don't see review making it any less controversial.

 

It's gone down like this:

 

1) League drastically changed the interpretation of rules in 2010 to protect QB's and WR..........specifically Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger.......who were supposed to become the faces of the league but were getting concussed left and right.

 

2) The first year 7 QB's had top 25 all-time passing yardage seasons.  Rising tide raised all ships but really didn't alter the power any because it only made the teams with the BETTER QB's that much more dangerous.

 

3) About 7-8 years later the league started getting a noticeable influx of physically gifted QB's and WR's whose families had steered them toward the game because it had gotten so much safer for those positions and the earnings potential was rapidly expanding. 

 

4) So to keep it from become a speedboat race out there the league has gradually allowed more and more contact in the secondary to level the playing field for disadvantaged defense's..........to the point where it's anyone's guess if something is going to be called a defensive holding or a PI.   There has never been more contact down the field before the ball arrives than there is now.  

 

It's frustrating not knowing what is going to be called or not called...........if you let it be(you can just accept it like the weather and hope your team plays well enough to avoid a call or two getting them beaten)............but I don't see those calls getting reversed often(if at all) because they really are so subjective and those are what are driving people crazy and impacting scores late in the game.

 

Frankly I'd rather see the boat races,  less drama and better teams win.........but I don't think that sells as well to the masses as the product they've created.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

On 12/2/2023 at 12:28 PM, oldmanfan said:

You will never be able to add enough technology to make calls foolproof and have games that last 3 hours.  No matter what is done there will always be a measure of human interpretation and error.  So for me?  Get rid of replay, accept that human error is part of the game, only call egregious penalties, and move on.

Forget three hours.  Make games longer and NFL can sell more commercials and make NFL penalties more consistant.

[Punching Bag]

On 12/2/2023 at 3:43 PM, dgrochester55 said:

I think that fans need to be more unified when this happens.    Looking at various sites and social media sites this week, I noticed that too many Eagles fans this week were dismissive "Your just sad that you lost", "refs did great" even though they were robbed during the Super Bowl and should have been able to relate as much as anyone.   

 

This is not about just the "Bills being screwed" We need to be as vocal when games like the Jets/Chiefs and 49ers/Browns happen or even when others perceive that Buffalo was handed a win in the Giants game.   This is about the big picture and the integrity of the game.    Players and fans deserve better than what the officials are giving us.

 

Won't happen until good referees make them money - i.e. referee jersey sales - or government gets involved - i.e. like Arlen Specter did.

[Meatloaf63]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:39 AM, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Nobodys gonna like this, but some penalties and non penalties need to be reviewable. Human error will never go away.

If you only get 3 chances, all penalties should be reviewable.

[Bookie Man]

Do away with these lawyers and bankers being refs. Get former players out there. Trained, of course. They understand the game on another level. They wouldn't be calling this ticky tack stuff that has no impact on the play. 

[The 9 Isles]

Having vague rules and subjective calls is totally by design and it makes the NFL a more dramatic league. 
 

The NFL could probably clean up a lot of the BS with officiating but why would they? It adds to the drama, it adds to the discussion, it adds to the emotional attachment to the games. 
 

Plus they can influence games at will, no one is ever surprised by horrible calls anymore, that’s the most consistent part of the game now. 
 

The NFL knows exactly what they’re doing, don’t forget that. 

[LeGOATski]

21 minutes ago, The 9 Isles said:

Having vague rules and subjective calls is totally by design and it makes the NFL a more dramatic league. 
 

The NFL could probably clean up a lot of the BS with officiating but why would they? It adds to the drama, it adds to the discussion, it adds to the emotional attachment to the games. 
 

Plus they can influence games at will, no one is ever surprised by horrible calls anymore, that’s the most consistent part of the game now. 
 

The NFL knows exactly what they’re doing, don’t forget that. 

Can't wait to watch pure football in the spring.

41 minutes ago, Alpo Chino said:

Do away with these lawyers and bankers being refs. Get former players out there. Trained, of course. They understand the game on another level. They wouldn't be calling this ticky tack stuff that has no impact on the play. 

Eh, they'd still be employees of the NFL. It's an organizational problem from the top down. Watch the spring league to see the correct approach to professional officiating.

[BuffaninSarasota]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:10 AM, JoPoy88 said:

Right. The “point” if you want to call it that people here and elsewhere are now clinging to is things like the WWE and NFL are both classified as “entertainment” or some such similar definition. Except they’re not. Not nowhere in the various laws that govern legal sports gambling will you see the NFL and the WWE as equivalent or in the same class. They are distinct and what you can bet on is subject to various state laws, not one overarching federal law. 
 

basically some salty fan after the Eagles game went on truth social and scrolled around too much and this is what we get here now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Truth Social? 

[Bubba Gump]

Goodell wants to make the "tush push" an illegal play. Hey dipshiit, how about taking care of the worst officiating in all of sports first??? How do the owners keep approving him? 

[Figster]

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The majority of the worst calls now are so subjective that I don't see review making it any less controversial.

 

It's gone down like this:

 

1) League drastically changed the interpretation of rules in 2010 to protect QB's and WR..........specifically Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger.......who were supposed to become the faces of the league but were getting concussed left and right.

 

2) The first year 7 QB's had top 25 all-time passing yardage seasons.  Rising tide raised all ships but really didn't alter the power any because it only made the teams with the BETTER QB's that much more dangerous.

 

3) About 7-8 years later the league started getting a noticeable influx of physically gifted QB's and WR's whose families had steered them toward the game because it had gotten so much safer for those positions and the earnings potential was rapidly expanding. 

 

4) So to keep it from become a speedboat race out there the league has gradually allowed more and more contact in the secondary to level the playing field for disadvantaged defense's..........to the point where it's anyone's guess if something is going to be called a defensive holding or a PI.   There has never been more contact down the field before the ball arrives than there is now.  

 

It's frustrating not knowing what is going to be called or not called...........if you let it be(you can just accept it like the weather and hope your team plays well enough to avoid a call or two getting them beaten)............but I don't see those calls getting reversed often(if at all) because they really are so subjective and those are what are driving people crazy and impacting scores late in the game.

 

Frankly I'd rather see the boat races,  less drama and better teams win.........but I don't think that sells as well to the masses as the product they've created.

 

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Much appreciated.

 

  By gradually allowing more and more contact to take place between DB and WR which does appear to be the case. More and more actual penalties are occurring, some called, some not because of it IMO. Give an inch and players will take a mile. Perhaps becoming more controversial with clear cut images of what the league calls a penalty is needed. When you start red flagging missed or wrong calls the league itself has to make a final determination for everyone to see. Uniformity on penalty calls across the league would become more easily established in my humble opinion. 

 

Thanks again for the insightful post.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Figster

[AuntieEm]

On 11/21/2023 at 4:18 PM, BigPappy said:

The NFL has no interest in "fixing" what fans call horrible officiating. The NFL has put in place a set of rules that allow the refs the best opportunity to maximize dollars generated for the league. On top of that, the not chaning of the rules gurentees that they stay "relevent" in the media which furthers the maximization of money coming into the NFL. My personal opinion is that they only way they would be forced to change (maybe), is for the IRS to take away their non for profit status and make them start paying taxes on the league earns. 

 

The nfl does not have not for profit status.  They have a exemption from anti trust monopoly laws.  The NFL teams pay taxes they just don't need to compete in a free market for player services as they would if there were competing pro leagues signing top athletes.

Edited December 4, 2023 by AuntieEm

[C.Biscuit97]

I hate the whining about officials but it has been so bad. They go crazy throwing flags on every play then miss obvious ones. 
 

Wirh the gambling stuff, this needs to be a major issue for the league to fix going forward. 

[Rubes]

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I hate the whining about officials but it has been so bad. They go crazy throwing flags on every play then miss obvious ones. 
 

Wirh the gambling stuff, this needs to be a major issue for the league to fix going forward. 

 

I hate whining about it as well, but for whatever reason it just seems so much worse this year. Even when it's not a Bills game, it's hard to watch. It seems like every game I watch has one or more calls happen or not happen in the final minutes to have a huge impact on the game.

 

[Mr. WEO]

18 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

Goodell wants to make the "tush push" an illegal play. Hey dipshiit, how about taking care of the worst officiating in all of sports first??? How do the owners keep approving him? 

 

simply because your are here yelling at Goodell to "take care" of this, instead of the owners.

 

 

is it more clear now?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Speaking of officiating:

 

 

[dave mcbride]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/12/world/europe/turkey-soccer-referee-attack.html
 

Despite it all, NFL refs have it pretty good, relatively speaking.

 

”Turkey is not alone in dealing with abuse and violence toward officials. Neighboring Greece’s top league postponed all of its matches last weekend after the country’s referees refused to work in a protest against what they called dangerous working conditions.

 

In Cyprus, bomb attacks targeting referees have been a problem for years. In June, a pipe bomb exploded outside the building housing the Cyprus Referees Association in the capital, Nicosia, only weeks after a firebomb was thrown at the home of a match official.

 

Referees in Turkey have long been under intense pressure from fans and team officials who traffic in a variety of conspiracy theories about decisions they contend might have favored a powerful club, or gone against the one they support.”

[NoSaint]

On 12/3/2023 at 8:11 PM, Alpo Chino said:

Do away with these lawyers and bankers being refs. Get former players out there. Trained, of course. They understand the game on another level. They wouldn't be calling this ticky tack stuff that has no impact on the play. 

meh. I like full time refs but to pretend these guys arent pretty well embedded in the culture of the game is unfair. To be an nfl ref takes quite a bit. I don’t want them splitting time but you don’t have to shrink the pool to players to fix this

[Yav]

On 11/21/2023 at 7:39 AM, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Nobodys gonna like this, but some penalties and non penalties need to be reviewable. Human error will never go away.

On the contrary, all should be reviewed. The NFL has eyes on every game, they can easily buzz an official and make the correct call. Anyone watching that Eagles game could see the horse collar and that it wasn’t intentional grounding. Make the call and correct the mistake. 

[Gisele]

How about this.  Call all penalties.  It will suck at first but players will learn to follow the rules.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

AI.

 

One area where it really would help. 100 cameras better than 6 sets of eyes.  Computers can process everything past and present. 

 

No human biases. 

 

We've been screwed over so much by the human element, it can't hurt to go this way.  You almost wonder if refs are just subconsciously biased against BFLo teams?  There's a reason why cops pull over more red vehicles than blue vehicles. 😉