Josh Allen….detached.

[Buckets]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

In prior seasons fans were demanding we take the "sugar rush" out of Josh.  Given the coaches offseason comments criticizing Allen for running, the new game plan strategy that has neutered Allen's game, it seems likely the "calm" Allen demeanor is a request from the coaches to keep level the whole game.  The next step in improving Allen will be to have him nervously clap after crappy Bills plays. That way we will know he has the proper emotionally state for peak performance.

This is not the same Josh we drafted, they've neutered him plain and simple.

[Riverboat Ritchie]

42 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

yeah it's obviously a combination of coaching and whatever is wrong in JA's head.  i said last year that I thought there was a cancer in the locker room, and nothing that has happened has changed my mind on that

Something does seem strange about this team’s chemistry.  I can’t put my finger on it other than it just seems like “the process” has run its course and nobody is buying into it anymore.  When the WR coach left to take a lateral job with JVille and that we have our head coach as D coordinator, something is just up. Also, obviously losing key vets to season injuries a factor too but the Bills do seem broken. 

[BillsFanSD]

Allen certainly isn't playing with the same edge he used to play with, but then again our defense just gave up 29 points to Matt Jones so it's not as if it's just him.  This whole team is playing as if they won the SB against a Miami a few weeks ago. 

 

Without being in the building and actually seeing what's going on, it's impossible for any of us to diagnose exactly what the deal is, but the Bills have not been right basically since last year's bye.  There were a dysfunctional mess down the stretch last year, which a lot of people blamed on the Miller injury, the Hamlin situation, and a bunch of other things, but they were clearly underperforming and had this weird culture about it where they expected everybody to pretend like everything was fine when it clearly wasn't.  After the last three weeks, it's not possible to pretend anymore. 

 

At a rock-bottom minimum, I have seen enough of Ken Dorsey to feel confident that he's not the answer.  There are people out there who would step over their grandmother for the opportunity to coach this offense.  We should move on after this season, and it should be an outside hire, not internal.  

 

I'm less certain about this next part, but I am also inclined to say that this experiment with McDermott running the defense is also not working.  Part of that is me (over?)reacting to yesterday's game, but a bigger part of it is that when a team is this out of sync, maybe they need a full-time HC and not a guy who's just doing this in his free time. 

 

My real concern though is that something has happened that caused McDermott to lose the locker room.  No idea what that might of been or why this happened, but the play on the field looks very much like an extremely talented team that is just going through the motions.  Probably McDemott is fine and this is a problem that can be solved with some staff in the offseason, but two months ago "We may need a new HC" wasn't even on my radar screen, so that fact that I can see like a 15% chance or so of this happening is getting alarming.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Blazman11 said:

You all need to stop with this stupid take in this thread and the other one about Josh.  To somehow make up your mind that Josh no longer cares about football after watching a combined 5 seconds of sideline shots during a 3 hour game is complete insanity.  

 

Nobody wants a leader ranting and raving whenever there is a problem.  That stuff gets old real quick.  

 

Yep.  Derek Carr did this Thursday and looked like an idiot.  
 

All QBs look like he does most of the time.  They’re trying to keep their emotions in check.  
 

 

Plus since he doesn’t run anymore he is by logic going to seem a little less intense.  

[Brian Higgins hair]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Lol - You must have a slept through a few other games earlier this season when Josh was being touted as favorite for league MVP.

…and today?

[BillsFanSD]

5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yep.  Derek Carr did this Thursday and looked like an idiot.  
 

All QBs look like he does most of the time.  They’re trying to keep their emotions in check.  
 

 

Plus since he doesn’t run anymore he is by logic going to seem a little less intense.  

Allen was picking fights with LBs last week.  I think he'll be fine if we can get somebody who can devise a competent gameplan.

[gobills404]

He’s lost faith in this regime 

[DeltaDigital]

Of course. He went Hollywood and the organization clipped his balls so he “dOeSnT gEt hUrT” 🙄 

[BrooklynBills]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

Allen has been asked for years to stop hurdling players and taking defenders head on. 

 

The ask is for him to be smarter. Get down, get out of bounds. Similar to a peak Russ or current Mahomes.
 

If anything Josh doesn’t have a good feel for that part of his game. It is like he only knows how to truck a LB or make an errant throw with nothing but green grass in front of him. 
 

Kurt Warner was flamed for years for doing Allen film reviews that was basically “just because he can, doesn’t mean he should” when it came to his decision making. He was right. Sometimes Allen isn’t a great decision maker.

 

Edit: He just had 7 runs for 2. Something yards per carry. He’s not running the ball well either. 

 

This right here! No one was asking him to stop running altogether! Just stop hurdling people 5 yards from the 1st down marker or lowering your throwing shoulder into LBers on 1st and 2nd down. Just be smart about it.

 

I can definitely buy into some of the work ethic stuff.  Working on your throwing motion and training with QB gurus is not the same as studying film and learning the details of your offense.  Part of the appeal of the Erhardt-Perkins offense is the dual concepts in one play aspect based on the coverage that you are getting (i.e. simplistically having a man beater on one side and a zone beater on the other although it can get much more complex than that), but it really requires knowing where you are supposed to go with the ball and that means diagnosing coverages needs to be one of the QBs top strengths.

[Big Blitz]

Does anyone on offense look excited about what we’re doing?

[Joe Ferguson forever]

If he’s not seriously injured, he needs a sports psychologist. He’s lost his mojo. 

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

…and today?

 

Today everyone is talking about how Mac Jones looked like an MVP candidate yesterday.

1 minute ago, Joe Ferguson forever said:

If he’s not seriously injured, he needs a sports psychologist. He’s lost his mojo. 

Maybe he just doesn't believe in his coach(es) or system. Eventually that sort of thing will impact anyone.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, BrooklynBills said:

 

This right here! No one was asking him to stop running altogether! Just stop hurdling people 5 yards from the 1st down marker or lowering your throwing shoulder into LBers on 1st and 2nd down. Just be smart about it.

 

I can definitely buy into some of the work ethic stuff.  Working on your throwing motion and training with QB gurus is not the same as studying film and learning the details of your offense.  Part of the appeal of the Erhardt-Perkins offense is the dual concepts in one play aspect based on the coverage that you are getting (i.e. simplistically having a man beater on one side and a zone beater on the other although it can get much more complex than that), but it really requires knowing where you are supposed to go with the ball and that means diagnosing coverages needs to be one of the QBs top strengths.

But that’s not his strength. There was a play yesterday when the Pats come out showing one thing and then changed that mid snap count. The Bills got a delay of game penalty because Josh got confused. Josh Allen cannot be Payton Manning or even Joe Burrow. Those guys had elite level coaching from when they were in diapers. He’s Brett Favre who can run. Let him play that way.

[finn]

46 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

I’ve posted before— I have not seen him run and then jump up laughing, smiling, pointing— after said run. His runs awaken a spirit or adrenaline in him and the entire team.
 

There may be other things but that one is brutally obviously missing. 

I think this is an accurate take. McDermott appears to have laid down the law: No more Allen runs. From his perspective, the restriction makes sense: run the ball, throw short passes, let the defense do its thing. His fervent dream: Allen as game manager.

 

But look at it from Allen's perspective: His opponents are taking away the deep ball, his own coach is taking away his running, he has just one quality receiver, his line sucks, and the play calling is predictable and dull, no fun at all. 

 

No wonder he's rather be playing golf.

 

The guy has been bequeathed one of the most gifted QBs of all time, and he's shuIt's like making Secretariat pull wagons. 

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Today everyone is talking about how Mac Jones looked like an MVP candidate yesterday.

Maybe he just doesn't believe in his coach(es) or system. Eventually that sort of thing will impact anyone.

Josh looks like a guy who knows his project manager is in well over his head. Helpless and hopeless.

Edited October 23, 2023 by FireChans

[cgg716]

14 minutes ago, BrooklynBills said:

 

This right here! No one was asking him to stop running altogether! Just stop hurdling people 5 yards from the 1st down marker or lowering your throwing shoulder into LBers on 1st and 2nd down. Just be smart about it.

 

I can definitely buy into some of the work ethic stuff.  Working on your throwing motion and training with QB gurus is not the same as studying film and learning the details of your offense.  Part of the appeal of the Erhardt-Perkins offense is the dual concepts in one play aspect based on the coverage that you are getting (i.e. simplistically having a man beater on one side and a zone beater on the other although it can get much more complex than that), but it really requires knowing where you are supposed to go with the ball and that means diagnosing coverages needs to be one of the QBs top strengths.

Fans weren't asking him to stop running. Coaches are though. Which has also served to highlight the lack of resources on offense. Teams aren't spying Allen, so less openings for these crap wrs

[Shemp]

A main concept they've drummed into Allen this year is "don't get hurt." That's a passive concept like "prevent defense" and "playing not to lose" and these ideas never work.

 

Btw, I think Diggs is gone next year.

 

 

[Brian Higgins hair]

14 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Today everyone is talking about how Mac Jones looked like an MVP candidate yesterday

————

Everyone? You mean one comedian..

You realize that was a joke, right? .

14 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Maybe he just doesn't believe in his coach(es) or system. Eventually that sort of thing will impact anyone.

———-

yes.

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Brian Higgins hair

[Bill Grundy]

I feel that Josh is being asked to think too much. I have no proof for that. But it just strikes me as possbile. 

 

Some players in any sport play with feel, and some play with brains. Josh looks like one of the best when he's feeling the game and playing instinctively.You could see it y/day  when he needed to score two quick TDs on the bounce - no problem. But it feels like he's being asked to be more rational, more processed, more a tool of the OC's ego, and it doesn't suit him. Daboll truly understood Josh and how to get the best of him - Daboll knew how to make Josh look good. I feel with Dorsey that it's more about Josh working to make HIM look good. He's turning an inspired unpredictable and - without wanting to go too far - genius-type player into a fairly dull and predictable QB. We're not even really using his arm, let alone his smarts on the run. It's a really bad match, it seems. 

 

Dorsey might even be a good OC. Just not here. Or, at least, not now. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Bill Grundy

[78thealltimegreat]

34 minutes ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

…and today?

You’ll disappear when he goes off for four tds in a game a game again. 

[Ramza86]

It does look weird....but then I see it with almost every other QB on the bench.

 

So I think it isnt at rare as we think.

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

Thinking of the one that got away. We need to get josh back with his ex

He hasn’t been the same since they broke up. 

[Drew21PA]

Could be just be bored and annoyed like the rest of us with the offense performance and game plan?

 

maybe he likes to run maybe he likes going off script

[Success]

I'm more persuaded by how he looks breaking 3 tackles in the backfield and getting the ball downfield than in his facial expression on the sideline.

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

30 minutes ago, Shemp said:

A main concept they've drummed into Allen this year is "don't get hurt." That's a passive concept like "prevent defense" and "playing not to lose" and these ideas never work.

 

Btw, I think Diggs is gone next year.

 

 

What do you think their plan is to work around the $31 million dead cap if he’s moved next year? 

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

Everyone? You mean one comedian..

You realize that was a joke, right? .

 

Do you realize I was being sardonic?

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Nothing is wrong with him. I just don’t think he can believe he plays with the crap he does . Gabe Davis 1 catch 6 yards 🙄

He has no damn support from these dumba ss coaches who for 5+ years have insisted on emphasizing defense. No #2 wr, No OL, No TE's, No run game. I'd be disillusioned too .

[DuckyBoys]

I think he's on meds

[Shemp]

5 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

What do you think their plan is to work around the $31 million dead cap if he’s moved next year? 

 

Dunno. Do they still make plans?

[CircleTheWagons99]

13 seconds. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

57 minutes ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

…and today?

If your point is that the something that has changed is that he’s learning to better manage his emotions on the sideline, I can buy that.  If you think that he just doesn’t care about winning because he isn’t rah rah on the sidelines 100% of the time, I think that’s a crock.  Were you saying that when he smashed the ball across the goal line yesterday to take the lead with 2 mins left in the game?

[Your Brown Eye]

He's exhausted from shooting commercials, give him a break

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Why does he not look at the ipad while sitting on the sidelines ?

 

Doesn't he want to know what the pats are doing defensively ?

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Nothing is wrong with him. I just don’t think he can believe he plays with the crap he does . Gabe Davis 1 catch 6 yards 🙄

I kind of agree with ya. Josh has had to change his game because of lack of weapons, protection and McD stopping him from running. He’s taken the short passes and now the offense is starting to slow down again. Teams keep making adjustments and it’s all on him to keep changing when we don’t got the group around him to do it as a unit. 

[dpberr]

The entire team, exception Stefon Diggs, looks like that every game.  They all look sedated, coaches included.  Numerous examples of camera pans to McDermott staring out into space.   

 

 

 

 

 

[kkim0904]

He looks the same to me...

[Brian Higgins hair]

42 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

You’ll disappear when he goes off for four tds in a game a game again. 

 

This isn’t about questioning Allen’s talent. We all know what he’s capable of. This is about wondering what’s wrong here…something has changed between the killer Josh to the current Josh.

if you and others believe we are dealing with the same Josh killer Attitude of a couple years ago, well, I respectfully disagree. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Brian Higgins hair

[78thealltimegreat]

5 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I kind of agree with ya. Josh has had to change his game because of lack of weapons, protection and McD stopping him from running. He’s taken the short passes and now the offense is starting to slow down again. Teams keep making adjustments and it’s all on him to keep changing when we don’t got the group around him to do it as a unit. 

Not only many of us saying it Chris Simms had an entire segment on it last week so it’s a national deal now 

[BrooklynBills]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

But that’s not his strength. There was a play yesterday when the Pats come out showing one thing and then changed that mid snap count. The Bills got a delay of game penalty because Josh got confused. Josh Allen cannot be Payton Manning or even Joe Burrow. Those guys had elite level coaching from when they were in diapers. He’s Brett Favre who can run. Let him play that way.

 

I agree. The offense needs to be a bit more structured and deliberate in its play design and scheming and then adding those 2nd chance creation plays on top of it. Favre played his whole career in a highly structured west coast offense and then his playmaking was an added bonus.

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I said to my wife he looked disinterested until the fourth quarter.  Detached might be a better descriptor.  Something is going on with him.

Added pressure to maintain being a top 3 NFL QB.