24 Hours after London, The Good (yes there is good), The Bad, The Ugly.

[Chaos]

Since the 2020 season, the Bills fans have had legitimate Super Bowl aspirations each year.  During the 2020 and 2021 seasons, the stars had lined up very good with the Bills coming into the playoffs with more or less the healthiest team (I seem to remember threads discussing how this was not luck, but superior training and rotation strategies by the Bills).  In 2022 the Bills were not so lucky, 

THE GOOD
 

1. The Bills and Bils fans should still have Super Bowl aspirations for this season. The fans don't effect the play.  If the team plays as if they have given up, or the coaching staff starts making excuses in the press about the challenges, they face, then this should be the coaching staffs last season.  The fans do not deserve excuses. 
2. Even without Matt Milano, the defense has an opportunity to build on its success through the first five games.   The defense is getting back Von Miller full time shortly.  He played as if he had never been injured at times yesterday. The defense is getting Groot back.  The defense is getting Benford back. Settle, Phillips, Oliver, Ford are a solid interior defensive rotation.  Sucks Jones got hurt, but lets not confuse Jones with Von Miller or Matt Milano in importance.  Groot, Floyd, Miller and the emergiing Epenesa give the Bills the what is arguably the best DE rotation in the NFL.  The coaching staff probably was aware of Hyde's and Poyers age and injury history during the offseason.   This is still one of the best safety combos in the league.  Benford, Jackson, Johnson and Elam are not going to strike fear into the hears of anyone in the league.  But the front four should make their life easier.   Finally the LBs.  They aren't replacing Milano with a similar talented player. But Benard has already been defensive player of the week one. Dorian Williams is probably more natural playing Milano's position than MLB, and should improve during the season with Experience.  Dodson was not a disaster yesterday, and Klein will be brought up to provide at least some experience. 
3. Bills have one of the two best QBs in the league.  Gameplan malpractice does not change this.  There is some confusion among fans.  No QB throws every pass directly into the recievers hands.  Josh is not "off" if an occasional pass goes astray, or a professional NFL receiver has to make a small body adjustment to catch a ball. 

 

THE BAD

 

1. Preparation.  Sean McDermott has been the head coach for 6 years now.  We still see too many games, where the Bills simply look unprepared.   I am sure I am hyper sensitive to the Bills in this regard.  But even when the Chiefs or Niners, or top historical teams lost, I don't recall many situation where I thought "these guys were not ready".  

 

THE UGLY

 

1. Offensive Game Plan  Roller Coaster.  I am concerned Dorsey has a flaw, that I think Daboll also had, a fascination with their own importance on gameday.  It is great to surprise the defense with a play call, or draw up a cleverly designed play that works once.  I think the Bills OC's have placed to much emphasis on "out coaching" the other team with play calling.   Let me give two examples of the opposite approach. First, from long ago, in the Redskins Hog/Riggins glory years, the opposing team knew the play was Counter Trey, on seemingly every down, and Redskins in their own version of Goodfella's (f.u. pay me) simply out exececuted the defense time after time.  Incredible unstoppable rythm to the games.  In recent years for nearly a decade in watching the Patriots, I felt like they ran two plays, slant to Welker/Edelman of pass to Gronk. (Mahomes to Kelce) has a similar predictable but unstoppable feel to it. 
   
   How does this apply to the 2023 Bills.  The entire NFL Media Complex was buzzing all week about how Josh Allen had a perfect passer rating for play action passing for the season.  Casual fans on TBD picked up on the effectiveness before the media did.  It is obvious.  Surely, McDermott/Dorsey know the stats, and see the same.  But Dorsey decided the better strategy is to use less play action in yesterday's game for no obvious reason, other than we were going to cleverly outcoach the other team by ignoring our strength. 
   
   I am not a football coach, I feel like the Bills have a lot of offensive talent, and should be able to out execute every defense in the NFL, by being in rythm and playing to our strengths.  We don't need to have a clever new solution for every game.  5 Years into McDermott/Allen, there should be zero games where it seems like the offense is "trying to figure it out".
   
    

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Chaos

[Billz4ever]

Dorsey calling the offense

[poblano]

The best DE rotation in the league are in the NFC, SF and Philadelphia's are over Buffalo's  and SF maybe get stronger with the trade for Gregory 

[Big Turk]

I mean it's hard to really talk about preparation when the Bills have an average margin of victory over the past 3 years of almost 11 points per game when including EVERY game(including losses). That's an almost impossible bar to maintain. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Big Turk

[PatsFanNH]

15 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Since the 2020 season, the Bills fans have had legitimate Super Bowl aspirations each year.  During the 2020 and 2021 seasons, the stars had lined up very good with the Bills coming into the playoffs with more or less the healthiest team (I seem to remember threads discussing how this was not luck, but superior training and rotation strategies by the Bills).  In 2022 the Bills were not so lucky, 

THE GOOD
 

1. The Bills and Bils fans should still have Super Bowl aspirations for this season. The fans don't effect the play.  If the team plays as if they have given up, or the coaching staff starts making excuses in the press about the challenges, they face, then this should be the coaching staffs last season.  The fans do not deserve excuses. 
2. Even without Matt Milano, the defense has an opportunity to build on its success through the first five games.   The defense is getting back Von Miller full time shortly.  He played as if he had never been injured at times yesterday. The defense is getting Groot back.  The defense is getting Benford back. Settle, Phillips, Oliver, Ford are a solid interior defensive rotation.  Sucks Jones got hurt, but lets not confuse Jones with Von Miller or Matt Milano in importance.  Groot, Floyd, Miller and the emergiing Epenesa give the Bills the what is arguably the best DE rotation in the NFL.  The coaching staff probably was aware of Hyde's and Poyers age and injury history during the offseason.   This is still one of the best safety combos in the league.  Benford, Jackson, Johnson and Elam are not going to strike fear into the hears of anyone in the league.  But the front four should make their life easier.   Finally the LBs.  They aren't replacing Milano with a similar talented player. But Benard has already been defensive player of the week one. Dorian Williams is probably more natural playing Milano's position than MLB, and should improve during the season with Experience.  Dodson was not a disaster yesterday, and Klein will be brought up to provide at least some experience. 
3. Bills have one of the two best QBs in the league.  Gameplan malpractice does not change this.  There is some confusion among fans.  No QB throws every pass directly into the recievers hands.  Josh is not "off" if an occasional pass goes astray, or a professional NFL receiver has to make a small body adjustment to catch a ball. 

 

THE BAD

 

1. Preparation.  Sean McDermott has been the head coach for 6 years now.  We still see too many games, where the Bills simply look unprepared.   I am sure I am hyper sensitive to the Bills in this regard.  But even when the Chiefs or Niners, or top historical teams lost, I don't recall many situation where I thought "these guys were not ready".  

 

THE UGLY

 

1. Offensive Game Plan  Roller Coaster.  I am concerned Dorsey has a flaw, that I think Daboll also had, a fascination with their own importance on gameday.  It is great to surprise the defense with a play call, or draw up a cleverly designed play that works once.  I think the Bills OC's have placed to much emphasis on "out coaching" the other team with play calling.   Let me give two examples of the opposite approach. First, from long ago, in the Redskins Hog/Riggins glory years, the opposing team new the play was Counter Trey, on seemingly every down, and Redskins in their own version of Goodfella's (f.u. pay me) simply out exececuted the defense time after time.  Incredible unstoppable rythm to the games.  In recent years for nearly a decade in watching the Patriots, I felt like they ran two plays, slant to Welker/Edelman of pass to Gronk. (Mahomes to Kelce) has a similar predictable but unstoppable feel to it. 
   
   How does this apply to the 2023 Bills.  The entire NFL Media Complex was buzzing all week about how Josh Allen had a perfect passer rating for play action passing for the season.  Casual fans on TBD picked up on the effectiveness before the media did.  It is obvious.  Surely, McDermott/Dorsey know the stats, and see the same.  But Dorsey decided the better strategy is to use less play action in yesterday's game for no obvious reason, other than we was going cleverly outcoach the other team by ignoring our strength. 
   
   I am not a football coach, I feel like the Bills have a lot of offensive talent, and should be able to out execute every defense in the NFL, by being in rythm and playing to our strengths.  We don't need to have a clever new solution for every game.  5 Years into McDermott/Allen, there should be zero games where it seems like the offense is "trying to figure it out".
   
    

 

The Bills will be fine! Look at the AFC as a hole outside of KC is there another Elite team to compete with the Bills. In the NFC I would say the Eagles and 49ers.  My rankings of the 4 teams is:

 

1. 49ers

2. Bills

3. Chiefs

4. Eagles

 

they are all close so come playoff time they could all beat eachother. So in the words of a hippie QB Bills fans should “RELAX”

[Success]

Great post.  

 

There was quite a bit of doom yesterday, which I get, given the circumstances of the day.  But with the emotion taken out of it & taking an objective view, YES, we are still SB contenders.

 

Agree 100% w/ the write-up on the defense.  Milano - who I still hope can be back by the playoffs - was one of many good players we have on the D.  Yes, he was among the best, if not the best.  But we have a fantastic D-line, an excellent secondary, and the LB crew can hold their own.  Williams will have plenty of time to gain experience & acclimate, and he showed some flashes yesterday that he can do just fine in that role.

 

My expectations for this season didn't change yesterday.  Especially when I look around the AFC.  We are still the best team, imo.

 

[DasNootz]

14 minutes ago, Success said:

Great post.  

 

There was quite a bit of doom yesterday, which I get, given the circumstances of the day.  But with the emotion taken out of it & taking an objective view, YES, we are still SB contenders.

 

Agree 100% w/ the write-up on the defense.  Milano - who I still hope can be back by the playoffs - was one of many good players we have on the D.  Yes, he was among the best, if not the best.  But we have a fantastic D-line, an excellent secondary, and the LB crew can hold their own.  Williams will have plenty of time to gain experience & acclimate, and he showed some flashes yesterday that he can do just fine in that role.

 

My expectations for this season didn't change yesterday.  Especially when I look around the AFC.  We are still the best team, imo.

 

I’m not sure how your expectations don’t change.  I’d agree if we came out with an L but we’re healthy.  Losing Milano and Jones for a significant portion of the season has a huge impact on my expectations.  Couple that with Tre and you’re replacing 3 pro-bowl quality positions with JAGs.  While it may not have been a sizable impact in-game, OCs can now prepare and game plan for glaring weaknesses.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by DasNootz

[MikePJ76]

All the big picture talk is way to soon.  The injuries are the biggest issue.  The loss is going to hurt the team as we get later in the season if they are chasing miami in the division and a wild card spot.

 

IMO The afc is very good.  Its going to be a jumbled mess in december as teams are in the mix for the wild cards.  

 

My interest at the moment is going to be how opposing teams attack the bills defense going forward.  They just lost their top corner, top linebacker and an excellent DT.  Teams are going to change the way they attack the defense.  We don't know how that will be yet be we are going to find out fast with a guy bringing his team in here who knows the bills organization inside out.  Its about talent and the Bills should beat NY by a td or more but Daboll could put something on film that other teams exploit in the bills defense down the road.

 

Buffalo has to get healthy, sans White, Milano and Jones obviously and regroup and win five of the next six.  If not all six.  Losing to the Bengals would be awful and losing again to the jets could cost them the division.  

 

anyway, in the short term these next two weeks they need to see how differently offenses attack them and respond.  Hopefully the Defense continues to play well and the offense scores 30+.  If the bills score a lot opponents will present lots of opportunities for what looks to be a very good pass rush.

 

long term they have to go on a run here before that kc, philly dallas stretch.

[Success]

26 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

I’m not sure how your expectations don’t change.  I’d agree if we came out with an L but we’re healthy.  Losing Milano and Jones for a significant portion of the season has a huge impact on my expectations.  Couple that with Tre and you’re replacing 3 pro-bowl quality positions with JAGs.  While it may not have been a sizable impact in-game, OCs can now prepare and game plan for glaring weaknesses.

 

 

 

Where is the glaring weakness, though?

 

Beane has done a good job building depth.  Dodson & Williams are both capable LB's.  Benford, Johnson & Jackson are all good starting CB's.  With how good the D-line is, we'll still have a top 5-7 defense.

 

Which is all we need with this offense.  My expectations before the season were that this team is a SB contender.  That's the same expectation I have today.

 

[The Frankish Reich]

46 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

The Bills will be fine! Look at the AFC as a hole outside of KC is there another Elite team to compete with the Bills. In the NFC I would say the Eagles and 49ers.  My rankings of the 4 teams is:

 

1. 49ers

2. Bills

3. Chiefs

4. Eagles

 

they are all close so come playoff time they could all beat eachother. So in the words of a hippie QB Bills fans should “RELAX”

49ers have gained a little separation here. The question was whether Brock Purdy would be figured out by defenses and hit a wall. He hasn't. They have the most talented roster, are well coached, and are remarkably healthy right now. In retrospect they were the best team in the NFL last year until Purdy went down and they were forced to go with emergency QBs.

I would agree that Bills/Chiefs/Eagles are all about even, fighting for second best. And I'd be inclined to throw the Dolphins in there, although there's a lot more variability there. But the injury situation in the playoffs will not be the injury situation today, so that will have a huge impact.

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, poblano said:

The best DE rotation in the league are in the NFC, SF and Philadelphia's are over Buffalo's  and SF maybe get stronger with the trade for Gregory 

AJE had more sacks yesterday (2.0) than Bosa has for the season (1.5). Their other three DEs have a total of 3.5 in total.  The Eagles have one DE with a sack this season with Sweat who has 2.5 so maybe instead of guessing things look at that numbers. 

[Boatdrinks]

47 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

I’m not sure how your expectations don’t change.  I’d agree if we came out with an L but we’re healthy.  Losing Milano and Jones for a significant portion of the season has a huge impact on my expectations.  Couple that with Tre and you’re replacing 3 pro-bowl quality positions with JAGs.  While it may not have been a sizable impact in-game, OCs can now prepare and game plan for glaring weaknesses.

 

 

This is the sad reality. If you replace several top quality defenders with average ones the drop off is going to result in more yards, first downs and points allowed. That means less time on the field for the offense as well. The Bills no longer have a margin for error on offense. They need efficient, time consuming drives that result in TDs at a very high rate. The D will quickly turn into a liability. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Since the 2020 season, the Bills fans have had legitimate Super Bowl aspirations each year.  During the 2020 and 2021 seasons, the stars had lined up very good with the Bills coming into the playoffs with more or less the healthiest team (I seem to remember threads discussing how this was not luck, but superior training and rotation strategies by the Bills).  In 2022 the Bills were not so lucky, 

THE GOOD
 

1. The Bills and Bils fans should still have Super Bowl aspirations for this season. The fans don't effect the play.  If the team plays as if they have given up, or the coaching staff starts making excuses in the press about the challenges, they face, then this should be the coaching staffs last season.  The fans do not deserve excuses. 

 

This team still could emerge out of the AFC, but this team vs Niners feels like the last 3 times Bills made the SB where the NFC was the clear powerhouse teams and the AFC was weaker, so getting there was one thing, winning it was another.  Losing Tre, Milano, and Jones (1 at each level of the D, and 3 of our best players) against a team like Niners is a big big loss in stopping what they do, which is already a style that would likely matchup well with our defense. 

 

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

1. Even without Matt Milano, the defense has an opportunity to build on its success through the first five games.   The defense is getting back Von Miller full time shortly.  He played as if he had never been injured at times yesterday. The defense is getting Groot back.  The defense is getting Benford back. Settle, Phillips, Oliver, Ford are a solid interior defensive rotation.  Sucks Jones got hurt, but lets not confuse Jones with Von Miller or Matt Milano in importance.  Groot, Floyd, Miller and the emergiing Epenesa give the Bills the what is arguably the best DE rotation in the NFL.  The coaching staff probably was aware of Hyde's and Poyers age and injury history during the offseason.   This is still one of the best safety combos in the league.  Benford, Jackson, Johnson and Elam are not going to strike fear into the hears of anyone in the league.  But the front four should make their life easier.   Finally the LBs.  They aren't replacing Milano with a similar talented player. But Benard has already been defensive player of the week one. Dorian Williams is probably more natural playing Milano's position than MLB, and should improve during the season with Experience.  Dodson was not a disaster yesterday, and Klein will be brought up to provide at least some experience. 

 

Sorry, the part in red is just wrong.  Jones loss is nearly as bad as the Milano loss.  Jones has been the best DT in football this year.  HIs impact is felt on all 3 levels of the team.  His ability to get pressure up the middle and disrupt the QB not only makes Ed Olivers job easier and the DE's, but the secondary's as well as it forces the QB to get rid of the ball quicker and under duress creating more turnover and PBU opportunities.  

 

Make no mistake about it...Jones injury is significant and nearly as bad as losing Milano and worse than losing Tre.  I mean if you told me I could choose to have Tre back or Jones back, I would take Jones and that is not a slight on Tre, that is because this team is more equipped to handle losing Tre and Jones has been that good.

 

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

1. Bills have one of the two best QBs in the league.  Gameplan malpractice does not change this.  There is some confusion among fans.  No QB throws every pass directly into the recievers hands.  Josh is not "off" if an occasional pass goes astray, or a professional NFL receiver has to make a small body adjustment to catch a ball. 

 

Agreed with the above.  

 

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

 

THE BAD

 

1. Preparation.  Sean McDermott has been the head coach for 6 years now.  We still see too many games, where the Bills simply look unprepared.   I am sure I am hyper sensitive to the Bills in this regard.  But even when the Chiefs or Niners, or top historical teams lost, I don't recall many situation where I thought "these guys were not ready".  

 

I think McD is a very good coach, and I am not down on him.  But, there does seem to be these games where the Bills do come out flat.  Even in games we win, its not uncommon for the D to give up a quick easy first scoring drive or two before it suddenly starts to clamp down.  I guess you can say its good to see the team capable of making good in game adjustments, but why does it take that so often rather than coming out the gate that way.  

 

Inconsistency on offense I put more on Dorsey as in a lot of those instances his gameplan is just poor to start before they adjust.  

 

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

 

THE UGLY

 

1. Offensive Game Plan  Roller Coaster.  I am concerned Dorsey has a flaw, that I think Daboll also had, a fascination with their own importance on gameday.  It is great to surprise the defense with a play call, or draw up a cleverly designed play that works once.  I think the Bills OC's have placed to much emphasis on "out coaching" the other team with play calling.   Let me give two examples of the opposite approach. First, from long ago, in the Redskins Hog/Riggins glory years, the opposing team knew the play was Counter Trey, on seemingly every down, and Redskins in their own version of Goodfella's (f.u. pay me) simply out exececuted the defense time after time.  Incredible unstoppable rythm to the games.  In recent years for nearly a decade in watching the Patriots, I felt like they ran two plays, slant to Welker/Edelman of pass to Gronk. (Mahomes to Kelce) has a similar predictable but unstoppable feel to it. 
   
   How does this apply to the 2023 Bills.  The entire NFL Media Complex was buzzing all week about how Josh Allen had a perfect passer rating for play action passing for the season.  Casual fans on TBD picked up on the effectiveness before the media did.  It is obvious.  Surely, McDermott/Dorsey know the stats, and see the same.  But Dorsey decided the better strategy is to use less play action in yesterday's game for no obvious reason, other than we was going cleverly outcoach the other team by ignoring our strength. 
   
   I am not a football coach, I feel like the Bills have a lot of offensive talent, and should be able to out execute every defense in the NFL, by being in rythm and playing to our strengths.  We don't need to have a clever new solution for every game.  5 Years into McDermott/Allen, there should be zero games where it seems like the offense is "trying to figure it out".
    

 

Agree 100% on everything in the Ugly...Dorsey had me furious yesterday totally abandoning what has been working perfectly all season.  Allen has a perfect passer rating in play action on the season, his stats and efficiency are through the roof on under the center snaps.  Yet we went right back to shotgun snaps most the game and didn't call an under the center call until several drives in.

 

NOW...in Dorseys defense, many of the early drives stalled (3 in fact, and 4 total) on dropped passes.  But it doesn't change the fact that he went away from our most effective styles of offense and did so most of the game.  Not to mention his utterly stupid play calling in other parts of the game.  

 

For me...Dorsey is the new weak link...the new Frazier.  He wasn't good last year and I don't see the growth this year.  I feel duped because I actually thought the Miami game, easily his best game in his career, was the turning of the corner.  Unfortunately, he reverted back to his other ways one week later.  

If he doesn't get his crap together and start using the talent on this roster better and building game plans around what we do best, I am going to be beating the drum of fire Dorsey all offseason like I did last 2 years with Frazier.  I, and many others too, were right about Frazier, the D is so much better under McD and its not close.  I fear the same may be true with Dorsey, just hope he proves the doubters wrong before our season sinks because with the injuries to the D, our offense is going to be need to be at its best week in and week out.  

[SCBills]

Great post OP.   I agree with most of it. 

 

The fact that these games on Offense span both Daboll, now Dorsey, seems to indicate that this is an issue beyond just the OC.

 

Whether it's an Allen issue and/or personnel, I don't know, but this is now two different OC's where we've seen a game like this against the Jags, never mind the Jets debacles. 

 

I do believe that with how AJE is playing, we have the best DE rotation in the league with Rousseau, Floyd and AJE.  If we can get Von ramped up by the end of the season, this pass rush can carry the defense, no matter what injuries we have behind them (within reason).  

 

And for people asking how we can compete with SF, or how anyone can for that matter...  Buffalo's Defense looked like THE best Defense in the league and proceeded to lose White, Milano and maybe Jones for the year in consecutive weeks. 

 

We're entering Week 6.  Who knows how the season plays out.  SF isn't KC.  They will likely face some health adversity like everyone does.  (except KC in recent years). 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by SCBills

[Jerome007]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I do believe that with how AJE is playing, we have the best DE rotation in the league with Rousseau, Floyd and AJE.  If we can get Von ramped up by the end of the season, this pass rush can carry the defense, no matter what injuries we have behind them (within reason).  

Add Oliver and.... Jones. The interior of the DLine was doing its job too. They wreak havoc. Yesterday they didn't do that much, but they were so banged up grrrr.

[Marcus Aurelius]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

The Bills will be fine! Look at the AFC as a hole outside of KC is there another Elite team to compete with the Bills. In the NFC I would say the Eagles and 49ers.  My rankings of the 4 teams is:

 

1. 49ers

2. Bills

3. Chiefs

4. Eagles

 

they are all close so come playoff time they could all beat eachother. So in the words of a hippie QB Bills fans should “RELAX”

The AFC is a "hole" alright  ...

Something we need to climb out of after the loss to the Jags ...

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, poblano said:

The best DE rotation in the league are in the NFC, SF and Philadelphia's are over Buffalo's  and SF maybe get stronger with the trade for Gregory 

 

If we are talking on paper from last year, yes.  But this year, our ends are both playing at elite levels without Miller.

 

Rosseau and Floyd and our back up Epenesa have created havoc all year.

 

I'm not saying it's a runaway, but the Bills DL all year have played well.  While the Eagles have struggled in pass defense this year.

13 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Add Oliver and.... Jones. The interior of the DLine was doing its job too. They wreak havoc. Yesterday they didn't do that much, but they were so banged up grrrr.

 

I think we can be fine at DT if Poona doesn't suck.  He's not going to be dominant like Jones was wear he's wrecking havoc....he just needs to not hurt us.

[poblano]

49 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

AJE had more sacks yesterday (2.0) than Bosa has for the season (1.5). Their other three DEs have a total of 3.5 in total.  The Eagles have one DE with a sack this season with Sweat who has 2.5 so maybe instead of guessing things look at that numbers. 

Instead of look at the numbers look the actual games

[TheBrownBear]

Of course, we are still contenders, but with the defense about to take a step back, we really need to find a way to be consistently very good on offense from week to week.  We can't afford to sleep walk through 2-3 quarters and expect to walk out with victories.  We need to come out quick, put some points on the board and let our defense play with a lead and do what they do best.

 

By the way, Epenesa, what a revelation yesterday.  Has the light truly finally gone on for him?  If so, he's a legit difference maker going forward.

[Toledo Bill]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

Since the 2020 season, the Bills fans have had legitimate Super Bowl aspirations each year.  During the 2020 and 2021 seasons, the stars had lined up very good with the Bills coming into the playoffs with more or less the healthiest team (I seem to remember threads discussing how this was not luck, but superior training and rotation strategies by the Bills).  In 2022 the Bills were not so lucky, 

THE GOOD
 

1. The Bills and Bils fans should still have Super Bowl aspirations for this season. The fans don't effect the play.  If the team plays as if they have given up, or the coaching staff starts making excuses in the press about the challenges, they face, then this should be the coaching staffs last season.  The fans do not deserve excuses. 
2. Even without Matt Milano, the defense has an opportunity to build on its success through the first five games.   The defense is getting back Von Miller full time shortly.  He played as if he had never been injured at times yesterday. The defense is getting Groot back.  The defense is getting Benford back. Settle, Phillips, Oliver, Ford are a solid interior defensive rotation.  Sucks Jones got hurt, but lets not confuse Jones with Von Miller or Matt Milano in importance.  Groot, Floyd, Miller and the emergiing Epenesa give the Bills the what is arguably the best DE rotation in the NFL.  The coaching staff probably was aware of Hyde's and Poyers age and injury history during the offseason.   This is still one of the best safety combos in the league.  Benford, Jackson, Johnson and Elam are not going to strike fear into the hears of anyone in the league.  But the front four should make their life easier.   Finally the LBs.  They aren't replacing Milano with a similar talented player. But Benard has already been defensive player of the week one. Dorian Williams is probably more natural playing Milano's position than MLB, and should improve during the season with Experience.  Dodson was not a disaster yesterday, and Klein will be brought up to provide at least some experience. 
3. Bills have one of the two best QBs in the league.  Gameplan malpractice does not change this.  There is some confusion among fans.  No QB throws every pass directly into the recievers hands.  Josh is not "off" if an occasional pass goes astray, or a professional NFL receiver has to make a small body adjustment to catch a ball. 

 

THE BAD

 

1. Preparation.  Sean McDermott has been the head coach for 6 years now.  We still see too many games, where the Bills simply look unprepared.   I am sure I am hyper sensitive to the Bills in this regard.  But even when the Chiefs or Niners, or top historical teams lost, I don't recall many situation where I thought "these guys were not ready".  

 

THE UGLY

 

1. Offensive Game Plan  Roller Coaster.  I am concerned Dorsey has a flaw, that I think Daboll also had, a fascination with their own importance on gameday.  It is great to surprise the defense with a play call, or draw up a cleverly designed play that works once.  I think the Bills OC's have placed to much emphasis on "out coaching" the other team with play calling.   Let me give two examples of the opposite approach. First, from long ago, in the Redskins Hog/Riggins glory years, the opposing team knew the play was Counter Trey, on seemingly every down, and Redskins in their own version of Goodfella's (f.u. pay me) simply out exececuted the defense time after time.  Incredible unstoppable rythm to the games.  In recent years for nearly a decade in watching the Patriots, I felt like they ran two plays, slant to Welker/Edelman of pass to Gronk. (Mahomes to Kelce) has a similar predictable but unstoppable feel to it. 
   
   How does this apply to the 2023 Bills.  The entire NFL Media Complex was buzzing all week about how Josh Allen had a perfect passer rating for play action passing for the season.  Casual fans on TBD picked up on the effectiveness before the media did.  It is obvious.  Surely, McDermott/Dorsey know the stats, and see the same.  But Dorsey decided the better strategy is to use less play action in yesterday's game for no obvious reason, other than we was going cleverly outcoach the other team by ignoring our strength. 
   
   I am not a football coach, I feel like the Bills have a lot of offensive talent, and should be able to out execute every defense in the NFL, by being in rythm and playing to our strengths.  We don't need to have a clever new solution for every game.  5 Years into McDermott/Allen, there should be zero games where it seems like the offense is "trying to figure it out".
   
    

 

Great comments… thanks.

I do disagree with Jones not being as important as Milano or Miller. He has been a beast and I fear us now getting shredded by opponents running game.

[Alphadawg7]

32 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

If we are talking on paper from last year, yes.  But this year, our ends are both playing at elite levels without Miller.

 

Rosseau and Floyd and our back up Epenesa have created havoc all year.

 

I'm not saying it's a runaway, but the Bills DL all year have played well.  While the Eagles have struggled in pass defense this year.

 

Agree, our DL has been very good and amongst the best in the NFL this year.

 

32 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think we can be fine at DT if Poona doesn't suck.  He's not going to be dominant like Jones was wear he's wrecking havoc....he just needs to not hurt us.

 

This is where I disagree.  Jones loss is big, maybe almost as big as Milano.  The impact of losing Jones will be felt on all 3 levels of the defense.  Those guys wreaking havoc as you mentioned above is true, but Jones impact has been a big reason why.  His ability to wreck the middle and bring pressure there makes the jobs of Ed and the edge guys so much easier to get home.  It disrupts the center of the pocket and timing of the QB to buy time for the others to get there if Jones doesn't get there himself.  Not only does this help the upfront guys coming after the QB, but it often forces the QB into rushed or ill advised throws creating opportunities for the back end of the defense to make plays, PBU's, and interceptions.  

 

We were leading the league in Interceptions, Turnovers, and Sacks heading into the London game, and Jones impact was a big reason why.  He was arguably the best DT in the NFL this season in terms of his level of play thus far.  

 

Im not saying we are doomed, but if we have lost Jones for the season, its a substantial loss.  I said in another thread, we lost our best player at each level of the defense in Tre at CB, Milano at LB, and Jones on the DL (he has been the best player on the DL this year).  And while Milano is the biggest loss, Jones is almost as bad.  In fact, I would not hesitate to take Jones back over Tre if given the choice to get one of them back right now.  Not a knock on Tre, but this team is better equipped for life without Tre than life without Jones who impacts the game more overall than Tre does.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 penalties for 100+ yards seems like a pretty ugly thing. 
 

Then there was the one play screwed the entire game …. 3rd and 5 pass incomplete but Milano hurt and flag on Ed for a personal foul … with the automatic first down, they go on to score, Ed commits another PF and they decide to get 2 points. That ends up being the 5 pt difference on the scoreboard. 

 

defense was on the field 2/3s of the game- They kept gifting drive extending penalties while committing drive killing holds on offense. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agree, our DL has been very good and amongst the best in the NFL this year.

 

 

This is where I disagree.  Jones loss is big, maybe almost as big as Milano.  The impact of losing Jones will be felt on all 3 levels of the defense.  Those guys wreaking havoc as you mentioned above is true, but Jones impact has been a big reason why.  His ability to wreck the middle and bring pressure there makes the jobs of Ed and the edge guys so much easier to get home.  It disrupts the center of the pocket and timing of the QB to buy time for the others to get there if Jones doesn't get there himself.  Not only does this help the upfront guys coming after the QB, but it often forces the QB into rushed or ill advised throws creating opportunities for the back end of the defense to make plays, PBU's, and interceptions.  

 

We were leading the league in Interceptions, Turnovers, and Sacks heading into the London game, and Jones impact was a big reason why.  He was arguably the best DT in the NFL this season in terms of his level of play thus far.  

 

Im not saying we are doomed, but if we have lost Jones for the season, its a substantial loss.  I said in another thread, we lost our best player at each level of the defense in Tre at CB, Milano at LB, and Jones on the DL (he has been the best player on the DL this year).  And while Milano is the biggest loss, Jones is almost as bad.  In fact, I would not hesitate to take Jones back over Tre if given the choice to get one of them back right now.  Not a knock on Tre, but this team is better equipped for life without Tre than life without Jones who impacts the game more overall than Tre does.

 

I know he's important and expect a step back.

 

However, Jones went down on the first drive.  Oliver still ended up with 3 TFL and a sack.  Epenesa was insane.  We had Vickers playing mostly edge.

Jonathan went down a bit.  Oliver went down for a bit.  Floyd went down.  Miller was on a strict pitch count.  Yet the game was 11-7 starting in the 4th.  We started getting gashed when we ran out of gas in the 4th.

 

If I was a Jags fan, I actually would be a little concerned if you look at the context.  The box score looks good and he nailed big throws in the 4th....but it took a gassed out and back up defense of the Bills before they started moving the ball.  

 

 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

The Bills will be fine! Look at the AFC as a hole outside of KC is there another Elite team to compete with the Bills. In the NFC I would say the Eagles and 49ers.  My rankings of the 4 teams is:

 

1. 49ers

2. Bills

3. Chiefs

4. Eagles

 

they are all close so come playoff time they could all beat eachother. So in the words of a hippie QB Bills fans should “RELAX”

It’s week 5.  Lots can happen between now and the playoffs.  Looks how much things have changed for the bills in 7 days.  White, Milano and (likely) Jones out for the season. 
 

Some teams improve.  Some teams will regress.  Some will remain the same.  We don’t know how many elite will exist in the afc come playoff times.

[PatsFanNH]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s week 5.  Lots can happen between now and the playoffs.  Looks how much things have changed for the bills in 7 days.  White, Milano and (likely) Jones out for the season. 
 

Some teams improve.  Some teams will regress.  Some will remain the same.  We don’t know how many elite will exist in the afc come playoff times.

Also still time to make trades to improve the team this year. As I mentioned in another thread I am shocked the Bills didn’t try and get JC Jackson.  (Pats got him for a swap of picks in the 6th and 7th round and LA paying most of his salary)

[Alphadawg7]

44 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I know he's important and expect a step back.

 

However, Jones went down on the first drive.  Oliver still ended up with 3 TFL and a sack.  Epenesa was insane.  We had Vickers playing mostly edge.

Jonathan went down a bit.  Oliver went down for a bit.  Floyd went down.  Miller was on a strict pitch count.  Yet the game was 11-7 starting in the 4th.  We started getting gashed when we ran out of gas in the 4th.

 

If I was a Jags fan, I actually would be a little concerned if you look at the context.  The box score looks good and he nailed big throws in the 4th....but it took a gassed out and back up defense of the Bills before they started moving the ball.  

 

 

 

You are not wrong, and I am optimistic about even Dorian who I felt looked pretty solid considering the situation.  But end of the day, it was the Jags who don't have a good OL, who haven't been a good offense, and Trevor hasn't been very good all year.  

 

We still got gashed by Etienne and lost the game.  We still couldn't stop the air attack at times and got saved multiple times by penalties by the Jags negating good plays and taking negative yards and putting them behind the sticks where our defense could make more of an impact.  

 

I am much more concerned about the loss of Jones when we face teams like Eagles, Chiefs, Miami, and even the Bengals (whose offense looked substantially better this week).

 

I mean think about the Dolphins game alone.  If we had played last week without Milano and Jones, I think that is potentially a much different game.  Maybe we still win because Allen and the O were perfect, but it sure wouldn't have been a blow out.  I mean Jones and Milano were huge reasons why the defense turned it around after giving up those first 2 TD's with little resistance.  

 

Next time we face Miami we wont have the best player at all 3 levels of our defense in Tre, Milano, and Jones.  And those are the ones just guaranteed to not play, who knows if anyone else will be dealing with any injuries that week, those are just the guys we today know for sure won't play.  That means we are going to need Allen and the O to be near perfect again.  And we can't win this division without sweeping Miami IMO unless Miami goes on another skid like last year as they are already up a game on us as it is, but its hard to see where they do it looking at their remaining schedule.  And going into Miami down Tre, Milano, and Jones makes that game a lot different than this last time we played them.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are not wrong, and I am optimistic about even Dorian who I felt looked pretty solid considering the situation.  But end of the day, it was the Jags who don't have a good OL, who haven't been a good offense, and Trevor hasn't been very good all year.  

 

We still got gashed by Etienne and lost the game.  We still couldn't stop the air attack at times and got saved multiple times by penalties by the Jags negating good plays and taking negative yards and putting them behind the sticks where our defense could make more of an impact.  

 

I am much more concerned about the loss of Jones when we face teams like Eagles, Chiefs, Miami, and even the Bengals (whose offense looked substantially better this week).

 

I mean think about the Dolphins game alone.  If we had played last week without Milano and Jones, I think that is potentially a much different game.  Maybe we still win because Allen and the O were perfect, but it sure wouldn't have been a blow out.  I mean Jones and Milano were huge reasons why the defense turned it around after giving up those first 2 TD's with little resistance.  

 

Next time we face Miami we wont have the best player at all 3 levels of our defense in Tre, Milano, and Jones.  And those are the ones just guaranteed to not play, who knows if anyone else will be dealing with any injuries that week, those are just the guys we know for sure won't play today.  And we can't win this division without sweeping Miami IMO unless Miami goes on another skid like last year, but its hard to see where they do it looking at their remaining schedule.  And going into Miami down Tre, Milano, and Jones makes that game a lot different than this last time we played them.

 

 We did but I think the in game injuries are a significant reason why Lawrence looked good and Etienne ran well.  

 

Losing Jones and Milano is rough.  But I think if Miller wasn't on a pitch count and Floyd was able to continue to play...just having fresh bodies would have helped.

As bas as the Jags oline is, it shouldn't be a worse situation of us only having one healthy DE in Epenensa who was exhausted.  

We had 3 DE's rotating at the end of the game.  One was breathing oxygen, the other came off twice for an injury, the other was a back up DT.

 

If this happened to Allen, I would expect Allen to put up 50.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 We did but I think the in game injuries are a significant reason why Lawrence looked good and Etienne ran well.  

 

Losing Jones and Milano is rough.  But I think if Miller wasn't on a pitch count and Floyd was able to continue to play...just having fresh bodies would have helped.

As bas as the Jags oline is, it shouldn't be a worse situation of us only having one healthy DE in Epenensa who was exhausted.  

We had 3 DE's rotating at the end of the game.  One was breathing oxygen, the other came off twice for an injury, the other was a back up DT.

 

If this happened to Allen, I would expect Allen to put up 50.

 

Fair points all around there.  Still doesn't change my concern about what it will be like to play Miami in Miami down Tre, Milano, and possibly Jones for the whole game.  Like you said, you would expect Allen to put up 50 there...Tua and that offense have the same capability to capitalize on those players missing.  

 

Not to mention the other tough offenses in the AFC and NFC we will face down the stretch, playoffs, or Super Bowl if we reached it.  Don't get me wrong, I am still optimistic the defense can still be good enough, but at the same time, Dorsey and this offense need to be on point moving forward, and my confidence in Dorsey is not very high right now.  

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, poblano said:

Instead of look at the numbers look the actual games

I would if I could but am in Buffalo so can't see Philly or San Fran every week, yet I do see the Bills and week after week we get to QBs. 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

11 penalties for 100+ yards seems like a pretty ugly thing. 
 

Then there was the one play screwed the entire game …. 3rd and 5 pass incomplete but Milano hurt and flag on Ed for a personal foul … with the automatic first down, they go on to score, Ed commits another PF and they decide to get 2 points. That ends up being the 5 pt difference on the scoreboard. 

 

defense was on the field 2/3s of the game- They kept gifting drive extending penalties while committing drive killing holds on offense. 

The refs were an International disgrace. They ruined the flow of the game for everyone

The penalty on Poyer was a JOKE 

[BullBuchanan]

There is no good. The season died with certainty yesterday. An already bad run defense lost its two most important pieces, and we do not have an NFL level talent to replace Milano. Our offense still doesn't have the consistency required of a championship team and is unlikely to get it before the end of the season. The worst part is that the team just has no grit. It's a very soft culture McD has built here and ultimately it will be our undoing as this team loves to shrink in big moments.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

It’s week 5.  Lots can happen between now and the playoffs.  Looks how much things have changed for the bills in 7 days.  White, Milano and (likely) Jones out for the season. 
 

Some teams improve.  Some teams will regress.  Some will remain the same.  We don’t know how many elite will exist in the afc come playoff times.

This is true. How the team is performing in December , as well as their overall health at that point is much more important than in week 6. 

[Success]

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

There is no good. The season died with certainty yesterday. An already bad run defense lost its two most important pieces, and we do not have an NFL level talent to replace Milano. Our offense still doesn't have the consistency required of a championship team and is unlikely to get it before the end of the season. The worst part is that the team just has no grit. It's a very soft culture McD has built here and ultimately it will be our undoing as this team loves to shrink in big moments.

 

On Saturday, most had us as the best or 2nd best team in the league.

 

We lost a LB.  He's great, but that makes us go from a top 2 team to "the season died w/ certainty?"

 

That really doesn't compute.

 

[Warriorspikes51]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

There is no good. The season died with certainty yesterday. An already bad run defense lost its two most important pieces, and we do not have an NFL level talent to replace Milano. Our offense still doesn't have the consistency required of a championship team and is unlikely to get it before the end of the season. The worst part is that the team just has no grit. It's a very soft culture McD has built here and ultimately it will be our undoing as this team loves to shrink in big moments.

This is a bit overdramatic.  We just steamrolled an elite Dolphins team by playing physical.   

IMO the biggest mistake was not going to London on Monday or Tuesday.
 

I bet the players would have enjoyed seeing London at night for a few days

They would have had enough time to get fully acclimated.

 

I don't understand the "sports science"  of flying there on Thursday night - Friday afternoon. 

[poblano]

36 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I would if I could but am in Buffalo so can't see Philly or San Fran every week, yet I do see the Bills and week after week we get to QBs. 

But  if you didn't see them how can make a statement?

 

 

I've seen Philly only a couple of weeks, but SF the five games and SF is above us and despite Bosa not being at his level of play, until last night.

[frostbitmic]

The Good ... AJ Epenesa, extend him.

 

The Bad ... Giving up a home game to a conference competitor as part of an experiment, stupid stupid decision. I take that back, it had to be a home game, we had the annoying train noise.

 

The Ugly ... Losing Milano for the year and Jones for most of, if not all of it as well. Taron Johnson complained about the condition of the field. Dare I say that if we played the game at home, we probably don't lose either Milano or Jones, much less both of them.

[Big Blitz]

Nothing against McD - let me put aside the unforgivable 13 seconds for a minute - he’s a great coach.  I personally love him and would run thru a wall for him.   
 

 

But the inconsistency on offense is the risk you run with inexperienced OCs or revolving doors at OCs.  
 

Great points OP about the “what is the Bills “go to” play?”  
 

It appears it’s still “Let Josh make the incredible happen.”

 

 

I really wanted that win yesterday because it would have completely erased the “I can feel a let down game coming” vibe this team has at least twice a season that’s costed them home field advantage.  A game the coaches assert themselves as elite coaches.  
 

The inconsistency on a fully healthy offense is maddening.  

[LABILLBACKER]

I agree scrubbing the play action yesterday was a disaster. And I disagree that Ford or Settle are "solid interior" players.  The key to the remainder of this season will be:

 

1. Minimize injuries 

2. Keep using play action

3. Develop Bernard/ Williams 

4. Keep the 4 headed pass rushers healthy (Von, Groot, Floyd & AJE).

5. Trade for Surtain

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Also still time to make trades to improve the team this year. As I mentioned in another thread I am shocked the Bills didn’t try and get JC Jackson.  (Pats got him for a swap of picks in the 6th and 7th round and LA paying most of his salary)

Yeah…time got lots of teams to make trades…..

 

JC Jackson sucks.  Beane is smarter than to trade for a player that refused to go into the game and forced an injured player to l play while hurt.  He’s a bum. 

[london_bills]

I feel like we are close but the offence is lacking speed. 49ers, chiefs, dolphins all the elite Os have fast YAC players. I feel like if we could add one piece to an already good offence it could get us playoffs and deeper. (yes I know corner is an issue)