Over-reaction Three Weeks In.... Offense seems disjointed

[Billsfan1972]

Yep 75 points the last two weeks (7 by the defense) and a very scary Miami team this week.

 

Yesterday was never in doubt, but face it the Bills only had 16 points entering the 4th.

 

Been said in other threads and not ready to state this is a serious issue, but the Offense just seems a little off (and let's forget about the Jets game).

 

Week two I commented the red zone was somewhat of a slog and while the Bills moved up and down the field, it was primarily dinks and dunks and little over the middle.  No screens, TE's seem underutilized and none of those 20 yard lasers Allen is great at. 

 

Yesterday a great TD pass to Davis (his only catch of the day) and a few bb's to Diggs, three big scrambles by Josh and the last drive 64 yards rushing (with the game over), but again the offense I hope is a work in progress as I am not seeing a team firing on all cylinders. 

 

As said hope it is just an over-reaction.

 

  

[buffblue]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep 75 points the last two weeks (7 by the defense) and a very scary Miami team this week.

 

Yesterday was never in doubt, but face it the Bills only had 16 points entering the 4th.

 

Been said in other threads and not ready to state this is a serious issue, but the Offense just seems a little off (and let's forget about the Jets game).

 

Week two I commented the red zone was somewhat of a slog and while the Bills moved up and down the field, it was primarily dinks and dunks and little over the middle.  No screens, TE's seem underutilized and none of those 20 yard lasers Allen is great at. 

 

Yesterday a great TD pass to Davis (his only catch of the day) and a few bb's to Diggs, three big scrambles by Josh and the last drive 64 yards rushing (with the game over), but again the offense I hope is a work in progress as I am not seeing a team firing on all cylinders. 

 

As said hope it is just an over-reaction.

 

  

The concerning part is that our offensive line has played quite well, and yet there have still been struggles. Not sure how that can lead to anything other than Dorsey.

 

The offense is going to need to be much sharper this week for sure.

[teef]

I didn’t see it as disjointed, but maybe rather non-explosive. The defense did the heavy lifting yesterday, so I think it’s just how it worked out. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Passing game wasn’t good Sunday and it wasn’t because of the offensive line.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, teef said:

I didn’t see it as disjointed, but maybe rather non-explosive. The defense did the heavy lifting yesterday, so I think it’s just how it worked out. 

As I said over-reaction and pretty sure they need to be better vs. Miami, but who knows.  Lot's of third & 10's and similar and oops forgot to mention 4th down issues.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[pocoboy]

Things don't seem a whole lot different from 2nd half of 2022, except Josh's arm is back to where it needs to be.

 

Almost every wrinkle play fails. Sweeps, WR screens, they all seem very telegraphed. Whoever is their self-scout staff needs some turnover if they can't sort that out.

 

If Allen doesn't deliver pinpoint passes and/or Houdini acts, it would seem to be in trouble.

[Billznut]

I think what we are witnessing is the evolution into what the Bills braintrust sees as their “blueprint” to taking the next step for winning in the postseason. It’s no secret McD would like to see more running and more control by the trenches. I think we are witnessing Buffalo making the transformation from the pass happy offense of the last few years into what they think and hope will finally get them over the finish line in Jan and Feb. It will be a work in progress with peaks and valleys all season, seeing what works and what doesn’t. I expect the plan is to be firmly comfortable with this “new” style balanced offense by December for the home stretch. And I bet by next season they have it even more perfected. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Billznut said:

I think what we are witnessing is the evolution into what the Bills braintrust sees as their “blueprint” to taking the next step for winning in the postseason. It’s no secret McD would like to see more running and more control by the trenches. I think we are witnessing Buffalo making the transformation from the pass happy offense of the last few years into what they think and hope will finally get them over the finish line in Jan and Feb. It will be a work in progress with peaks and valleys all season, seeing what works and what doesn’t. I expect the plan is to be firmly comfortable with this “new” style balanced offense by December for the home stretch. And I bet by next season they have it even more perfected. 

Great so McD has decided to take away their greatest strength Josh Allen and put a muzzle on him?  Maybe he can do the same thing with Mahomes?

[JerseyBills]

I disagree about last week,  O was balanced and dominant.  

What changed in the 4th qtr was the run game , that's a great DL and they shut down our rbs for 3 qtrs but we still moved the ball fairly well and Dorsey stuck with the run and wore em out. Didn't need Allen wearing his Superman cape this week. Should have a much easier time running on Miami which will open the playbook. 

 

Rather they work out the kinks in the run game now , we have to stay balanced to win a SB

[HOUSE]

I was generally happy with the game plan but scoring 70 would have been better

[Billznut]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Great so McD has decided to take away their greatest strength Josh Allen and put a muzzle on him?  Maybe he can do the same thing with Mahomes?

I wouldn’t say muzzle, I’d say a tighter leash. I think their three headed running back monster of Cook, Murray and Harris was by design and they had publicly stated they don’t want Allen running and absorbing as many hits going forward. I think all this means more running, shorter passing game and an actual change in how they run the offense overall. They will never totally eliminate the need to be pass happy, when trailing or 2 minute hurry up obviously and also will still throw it out there as a change of pace to keep defenses honest. Think of it more of not muzzling Allen but obedience training for him, for his “own good” in the braintrust’s eyes. 

[pocoboy]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Great so McD has decided to take away their greatest strength Josh Allen and put a muzzle on him?  Maybe he can do the same thing with Mahomes?

 

2-1. And the 1 was squarely on that greatest strength against a very formidable defense. I get it, you're pissed that Miami put up 70 on what may be the worst franchise since the Browns or maybe JaMarcus's Raidehs. There's no good reason to send Allen out there to throw 45 times against that team. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, pocoboy said:

 

2-1. And the 1 was squarely on that greatest strength against a very formidable defense. I get it, you're pissed that Miami put up 70 on what may be the worst franchise since the Browns or maybe JaMarcus's Raidehs. There's no good reason to send Allen out there to throw 45 times against that team. 

And, when it comes to point differential, Miami is is one, ONE better than us.

 

One point. With a 70-20.win.

 

Absorb that.

[Meatloaf63]

23 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep 75 points the last two weeks (7 by the defense) and a very scary Miami team this week.

 

Yesterday was never in doubt, but face it the Bills only had 16 points entering the 4th.

 

Been said in other threads and not ready to state this is a serious issue, but the Offense just seems a little off (and let's forget about the Jets game).

 

Week two I commented the red zone was somewhat of a slog and while the Bills moved up and down the field, it was primarily dinks and dunks and little over the middle.  No screens, TE's seem underutilized and none of those 20 yard lasers Allen is great at. 

 

Yesterday a great TD pass to Davis (his only catch of the day) and a few bb's to Diggs, three big scrambles by Josh and the last drive 64 yards rushing (with the game over), but again the offense I hope is a work in progress as I am not seeing a team firing on all cylinders. 

 

As said hope it is just an over-reaction.

 

  

Don’t you dare speak a negative word about this offense or its coordinator 🤦‍♂️ don’t you know they won yesterday? You are nothing but a negative Nancy, positive posts only sir!!!

[pocoboy]

3 minutes ago, Billznut said:

I wouldn’t say muzzle, I’d say a tighter leash. I think their three headed running back monster of Cook, Murray and Harris was by design and they had publicly stated they don’t want Allen running and absorbing as many hits going forward. I think all this means more running, shorter passing game and an actual change in how they run the offense overall. They will never totally eliminate the need to be pass happy, when trailing or 2 minute hurry up obviously and also will still throw it out there as a change of pace to keep defenses honest. Think of it more of not muzzling Allen but obedience training for him, for his “own good” in the braintrust’s eyes. 

 

It could also be dummy tactics. This is the softer part of the schedule, no real need to be laying your cards out there for all to see just to be able to get all the praise for dropping 70 on a sub-.500 team.

[KDIGGZ]

The Raiders did not come out to play after halftime and Washington gave up in the 4th quarter. Take that out of the equation and focus on the competitive quarters and what do we have? This offense is definitely not clicking right now. This will draw groans and moans but it was very similar to the end of last year where we were still winning and putting up points but it just didn't look right and everyone was scared to admit it. Let's see what they do against Miami.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The Raiders did not come out to play after halftime and Washington gave up in the 4th quarter. Take that out of the equation and focus on the competitive quarters and what do we have? This offense is definitely not clicking right now. This will draw groans and moans but it was very similar to the end of last year where we were still winning and putting up points but it just didn't look right and everyone was scared to admit it. Let's see what they do against Miami.

Did Denver ever try and compete in that game?

[The Jokeman]

We have the 2nd most points scored in the league. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

We have the 2nd most points scored in the league. 

DisJoIntED!

[eball]

I haven’t looked at the play-by-play but it appeared to me the Bills made a concerted effort to run the ball on 1st and 2nd downs in the first half yesterday, and those plays were simply stuffed.  It wasn’t the game plan, it was the execution and Washington was prepared to defend the run.

 

I know everyone is up in arms about the 4th down call.  I get it, I really do, but the Bills had not been “successful” all game in short yardage and it was a safe play call, the DL just made a good play.

 

Only in the 4th quarter did the Bills finally wear down the Commandos and find success running.

 

The Davis drop was a big drive killer.

 

I think Dorsey is doing fine…we are spreading the ball around and still getting it to Diggs.  Not every game is going to be the offense moving like a hot knife through butter.  Washington has talent on defense.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by eball

[Max Fischer]

So far, this is the most well-balanced Offense under McBeane. The Bills don’t need Josh hero ball to win. If necessary, the Bills could have unleashed Go Crazy Josh Ball, but it was never needed. That’s encouraging for the last 14 games and especially the playoffs. See: Bengals playoff game. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The Raiders did not come out to play after halftime and Washington gave up in the 4th quarter. Take that out of the equation and focus on the competitive quarters and what do we have? This offense is definitely not clicking right now. This will draw groans and moans but it was very similar to the end of last year where we were still winning and putting up points but it just didn't look right and everyone was scared to admit it. Let's see what they do against Miami.

Shhhhh!!!!  That's not allowed here as no one wants to hear that.

 

Yep bang on and remember saying the exact same down the stretch last year and being drowned out. 

 

Bills fans think they can turn it on whenever they want and the issue right now is Dorsey's offense, which should be improving as he gets experience has actually been stuck in neutral for the most part.  

[Madbillsfan]

28 minutes ago, buffblue said:

The concerning part is that our offensive line has played quite well, and yet there have still been struggles. Not sure how that can lead to anything other than Dorsey.

 

The offense is going to need to be much sharper this week for sure.

They’re getting used to Josh actually having time to sit in the pocket and make plays. It’s the opposite of adjusting to bad line play. 

[Max Fischer]

6 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The Raiders did not come out to play after halftime and Washington gave up in the 4th quarter. Take that out of the equation and focus on the competitive quarters and what do we have? This offense is definitely not clicking right now. This will draw groans and moans but it was very similar to the end of last year where we were still winning and putting up points but it just didn't look right and everyone was scared to admit it. Let's see what they do against Miami.

It doesn’t work that way. You can’t discount results because you beat a team so bad that they “gave up.”

“Sure, he won the boxing match but that’s only because his opponent was knocked out.”

[Dopey]

24 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

Things don't seem a whole lot different from 2nd half of 2022, except Josh's arm is back to where it needs to be.

 

Almost every wrinkle play fails. Sweeps, WR screens, they all seem very telegraphed. Whoever is their self-scout staff needs some turnover if they can't sort that out.

 

If Allen doesn't deliver pinpoint passes and/or Houdini acts, it would seem to be in trouble.

I think that’s what qbs are supposed to do. Deliver pinpoint passes. No?

[GunnerBill]

I don't think I'd call it disjointed. I think Dorsey was the problem yesterday. Some of his playcalling was bizarre. And I am still not convinced about their design in the redzone, which feels overly contrived. I don't see them run enough what I consider base redzone concepts like the outside rub route, and the Tight End chip and release. The seem obsessed with motioning Harty across the formation then releasing him into the flat. I am a subscriber of "players not plays" in the redzone so I'd like less stuff designed for Harty and more for Diggs and Knox who have been our most reliable redzone guys.

[Ta111]

2 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

It doesn’t work that way. You can’t discount results because you beat a team so bad that they “gave up.”

“Sure, he won the boxing match but that’s only because his opponent was knocked out.”

Agreed. The reason the opponent looked like they “gave up” is because you crushed them.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think I'd call it disjointed. I think Dorsey was the problem yesterday. Some of his playcalling was bizarre. And I am still not convinced about their design in the redzone, which feels overly contrived. I don't see them run enough what I consider base redzone concepts like the outside rub route, and the Tight End chip and release. The seem obsessed with motioning Harty across the formation then releasing him into the flat. I am a subscriber of "players not plays" in the redzone so I'd like less stuff designed for Harty and more for Diggs and Knox who have been our most reliable redzone guys.

 

The quick outside throws didn’t work at all.  There had to be something he saw during preparation that made him think they would.

 

I didn’t think Dorsey called a bad game; just a couple of “huh?” plays that were stuffed.

 

I guess in my “glass half full” mind I am hoping he’s just trying to put a lot of stuff out there on film for defenses to see.

 

 

[Ya Digg?]

19 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The Raiders did not come out to play after halftime and Washington gave up in the 4th quarter. Take that out of the equation and focus on the competitive quarters and what do we have? This offense is definitely not clicking right now. This will draw groans and moans but it was very similar to the end of last year where we were still winning and putting up points but it just didn't look right and everyone was scared to admit it. Let's see what they do against Miami.

So they just stopped playing on their own? It had nothing to do with what the Bills were doing? They both just said “well, we know their offense is disjointed but let’s just pack it up fellas!”

[Billsfan1972]

13 minutes ago, eball said:

I haven’t looked at the play-by-play but it appeared to me the Bills made a concerted effort to run the ball on 1st and 2nd downs in the first half yesterday, and those plays were simply stuffed.  It wasn’t the game plan, it was the execution and Washington was prepared to defend the run.

 

I know everyone is up in arms about the 4th down call.  I get it, I really do, but the Bills had not been “successful” all game in short yardage and it was a safe play call, the DL just made a good play.

 

Only in the 4th quarter did the Bills finally wear down the Commandos and find success running.

 

The Davis drop was a big drive killer.

 

I think Dorsey is doing fine…we are spreading the ball around and still getting it to Diggs.  Not every game is going to be the offense moving like a knife through butter.  Washington has talent on defense.

 

Agree with 90%, but one catch by Davis and very little from the TE's for the most part to date.  Not really easy passes over the middle (outside Diggs).

 

Yesterday the defense pounced on everything (and 9 sacks).  That's an anomaly. 

 

The Bills were just okay on offense and this has been the case going back a while (not just 2023).  With Josh, that's not acceptable imo. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

22 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

The Raiders did not come out to play after halftime and Washington gave up in the 4th quarter. Take that out of the equation and focus on the competitive quarters and what do we have? This offense is definitely not clicking right now. This will draw groans and moans but it was very similar to the end of last year where we were still winning and putting up points but it just didn't look right and everyone was scared to admit it. Let's see what they do against Miami.

LOL

Take away 3 successful quarters and they weren’t as good.  
That’s now how it works.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I hate the second and long runs. And I think that put us behind the sticks all day. 
 

By the way, I sort of wonder if there would be less griping had Gabe Davis gotten both feet down on that beautiful throw into the endzone and we would have been up 20-0 going into half. 

[BillzFreak]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL

Take away 3 successful quarters and they weren’t as good.  
That’s now how it works.

Honestly I was wondering that same thing, instead of a few plays here and there, let's now take away whole quarters of games and base arguments on that lol

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I hate the second and long runs. And I think that put us behind the sticks all day. 
 

By the way, I sort of wonder if there would be less griping had Gabe Davis gotten both feet down on that beautiful throw into the endzone and we would have been up 20-0 going into half. 

He should have.  Agree there were too many 3rd & longs.  

[eball]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Agree with 90%, but one catch by Davis and very little from the TE's for the most part to date.  Not really easy passes over the middle (outside Diggs).

 

Yesterday the defense pounced on everything (and 9 sacks).  That's an anomaly. 

 

The Bills were just okay on offense and this has been the case going back a while (not just 2023).  With Josh, that's not acceptable imo. 

 

 

 

I think some fans have incredibly high (and somewhat unreasonable) expectations for this offense.  They’ve been putting up points and yards with the best of them.  We want to see the wide open big TDs that Miami is scoring, but that’s the anomaly.

 

We just missed another Davis TD yesterday, by a toe.  Some play calls simply didn’t work.

 

I agree they need to specifically target Kincaid, but he made a couple of mistakes early and didn’t get into the flow.

 

Big week this week.  The Fish are probably going to score, and we will need to keep pace.

 

[BuffaloBill]

56 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep 75 points the last two weeks (7 by the defense) and a very scary Miami team this week.

 

Yesterday was never in doubt, but face it the Bills only had 16 points entering the 4th.

 

Been said in other threads and not ready to state this is a serious issue, but the Offense just seems a little off (and let's forget about the Jets game).

 

Week two I commented the red zone was somewhat of a slog and while the Bills moved up and down the field, it was primarily dinks and dunks and little over the middle.  No screens, TE's seem underutilized and none of those 20 yard lasers Allen is great at. 

 

Yesterday a great TD pass to Davis (his only catch of the day) and a few bb's to Diggs, three big scrambles by Josh and the last drive 64 yards rushing (with the game over), but again the offense I hope is a work in progress as I am not seeing a team firing on all cylinders. 

 

As said hope it is just an over-reaction.

 

  

 

 

Over-reaction? Try ridiculous on for size.  As compared to last year, the Bills are more balanced.  Additionally, they faced yesterday what is arguably the best front four in football with no sacks.

 

 

[BillzFreak]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

He should have.  Agree there were too many 3rd & longs.  

But the counter point is they converted 9 out of 15 third downs yesterday. And in the NFL converting on a 60% clip is great

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, BillzFreak said:

Honestly I was wondering that same thing, instead of a few plays here and there, let's now take away whole quarters of games and base arguments on that lol

It’s ridiculous.

[NoSaint]

57 minutes ago, teef said:

I didn’t see it as disjointed, but maybe rather non-explosive. The defense did the heavy lifting yesterday, so I think it’s just how it worked out. 

I think it was pretty clear they thought the formula to win yesterday was score 20 and don’t give any short fields. 
 

How much you can lean on that in this league is a question mark. Letting bad teams hang around within two scores can be trouble though I’d be curious the analytics of it.
 

that said, they did reference Josh playing like he had to outscore Rodgers instead of Wilson in the jets game which was a point I made several times in the aftermath when talking about no one being in his ear. 

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

He should have.  Agree there were too many 3rd & longs.  

 

We we very successful on converting 3rd downs against one of the most dominant DL in football.  This is nitpicking.