It ain't the coaches.

[Dillenger4]

It was a bad game by Josh. But I think Dorsey is a clown. Called a brutal game. I expect something to happen in Buffalo this week. We are not beating Miami this year that's for sure. Until we have a solid gameplan. Dorsey is gone.y

 

Josh: "Same ol sh7t different day".

 

It's Dorsey.

[NoSaint]

28 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

https://x.com/nfl_dougfarrar/status/1701578846787739915?s=46&t=OXyXgvyV9xUtz0I9HYtilg
 

Its clearly the coaches!

 

Choose Your Own Adventure: You have Dalton Kincaid open underneath on third-and-2, or you can test Sauce Gardner and Jordan Whitehead upfield. 

Huh.

Would coaching not be part of that decision?

 

”alright Josh - spider z, y banana on 2… remember, the outlet should be open for the first down. Don’t have to win it on this play”

 

is Josh getting that and saying screw you dorsey? If so, it’s a player issue but also a relationship with the coach issue. Josh is your franchise qb and has shown he earned that role. When that breaks, it’s rarely simply “that player forgot how to play and sucks” but instead a systems issue… he’s not a UDFA special teamer thrust into the lineup and not showing ability to make reads

[BeastMaster]

It wasn't McDermott lastnight, but make no mistake...when we get into the big games against the best teams in the playoffs, McDermott will get out coached.

 

He also bears the responsibility of reigning Allen in if Dorsey isn't able to. Dorsey also made some bad calls like the draw play in OT.

 

Allen has clearly regressed from when Daboll was here. Another OC could potentially help get Allen back to his MVP worthy status, but do you give McD another shot with a new OC? I wouldn't 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It ain't the coaches.

 

It's never McD.  That's been established.  He's only the head coach.  

 

 

[Radar]

1 hour ago, 26TrapDraw said:

So throwing into triple coverage isn’t stupid? Josh made bad decisions last night period. Whatever the “Problem “ is needs to get fixed this week in the raiders game plan. If not this is going to be a very long season. The offense I saw called last night didn’t do him any favors either. Calling an inside run to our small rb against that dominant Jets front several times? Clownshow.

Stupid? No. Forcing the ball? Yes. Don't think this is a stupid thing.JMO Definitely agree with you on bad decisions.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Radar

[benderbender]

3 hours ago, dorquemada said:

Allen is a tremendous disappointment.  I guess we'll have to crank up the Excuse Generator and establish some kind of down year narrative. I'll start:

It's really hard to tell the Jets players and Bills players apart!

New girlfriend keeps him up late

Elbow still hurt

Feel free to add

Even more Delayed Onset Emotional Exhaustion from last year. Didn't quite get it all out. That's been the crutch all offseason. Let's ride that pony into the ground. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

It wasn't McDermott lastnight, but make no mistake...when we get into the big games against the best teams in the playoffs, McDermott will get out coached.

 

He also bears the responsibility of reigning Allen in if Dorsey isn't able to. Dorsey also made some bad calls like the draw play in OT.

 

Allen has clearly regressed from when Daboll was here. Another OC could potentially help get Allen back to his MVP worthy status, but do you give McD another shot with a new OC? I wouldn't 

I think Dorsey needs to be on the sidelines and out of the box to get a better feel for the game and get face-to-face time with his QB.  

 

I thought about McDermott sitting down on the sidelines and having a talk with Allen but the problem is he's calling the defense so when the offense in on the field he can't talk with Allen and when the defense is out there he's calling the plays.  So all he's got is halftime, time outs, and TV breaks.

[Rocbillsfan1]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Rose-colored glasses, PLENTY of terrible games by allen with daboll around.

 

Dude you are the king of horrible takes and excuses. Allen might have had bad moments but he played like a top 3 player in the NFL for a years under Daboll and I think he deserves MVP 1 of those years. You are also the same guy that said Allen looked good in the first half when he clearly didn’t and had happy feet and looked like a rookie that couldn’t stay in the pocket and go through his reads. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Dude you are the king of horrible takes and excuses. Allen might have had bad moments but he played like a top 3 player in the NFL for a years under Daboll and I think he deserves MVP 1 of those years. You are also the same guy that said Allen looked good in the first half when he clearly didn’t and had happy feet and looked like a rookie that couldn’t stay in the pocket and go through his reads. 

he did, man. he was in control first half, went to ***** in the second, there's no debating that.

 

well, i mean i suppose someone of YOUR illustrious intelligence could debate a 17/21 start, but whatever. facts are facts.

 

[Rocbillsfan1]

You keep citing the completion percentage like it’s the only thing that matters. Seriously dude you don’t know what you are looking at. Figures with the barstool sports logo in your handle. 

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

You keep citing the completion percentage like it’s the only thing that matters. Seriously dude you don’t know what you are looking at. Figures with the barstool sports logo in your handle. 

 

Josh may have not been great in the first half, but if he'd kept on that trajectory, instead of tail-spinned, the Bills would have won.

[Jerboski]

Allen played poorly 

 

but can we admit a few things 

 

not addrsssing the RT situation after last year is criminal 

 

Allen has regressed significantly under Dorsey just a fact 

 

allen was much better when he had a competent slot safety valve, why hasn’t beane figured that out 

 

it’s like we built this team to be good at defense and Allen carry everything on offense, just absurd 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

Did Allen call a draw play on 2nd and 15 in OT?

What exactly is wrong with calling a draw and second and 15 in overtime
 

That is all determined by what a Defense presents

 

Let’s keep in mind that our QB threw in three interceptions up to that point

[Rocbillsfan1]

12 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Josh may have not been great in the first half, but if he'd kept on that trajectory, instead of tail-spinned, the Bills would have won.

I can get behind that, yes the Bills should have one if he didn’t completely melt down. I’m just arguing that he didn’t look as good as people are saying. He was seeing Ghosts out there at times not getting through progressions not staying in the pocket, taking really bad hits and moving into pressure consistently. He never once really looked comfortable and moved like a top 3 player in the league. Basically people were happy that he looked like Trent Edwards and was checking the ball down quite a bit and at times getting the ball out quick for 3 yard passes. That’s not the MVP Allen We all know, and that’s not a player inspiring fear into the rest of the NFL. Squeaking by the Jets doesn’t give a lot of hope that we are Super Bowl bound when Tua is throwing for almost 500 yards, and the rest of the AFC is looking really tough. We don’t loook like a playoff team IMO with Josh playing check down and winning by a possession with the Jets playing Zach Wilson. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Basically people were happy that he looked like Trent Edwards and was checking the ball down quite a bit and at times getting the ball out quick for 3 yard passes.

 

CHECKING THE BALL DOWN AND TAKING THE QUICK STUFF WAS THE PLAN

 

crime in italy, man, this ain't rocket science

 

[UKBillFan]

Just now, Rocbillsfan1 said:

I can get behind that, yes the Bills should have one if he didn’t completely melt down. I’m just arguing that he didn’t look as good as people are saying. He was seeing Ghosts out there at times not getting through progressions not staying in the pocket, taking really bad hits and moving into pressure consistently. He never once really looked comfortable and moved like a top 3 player in the league. Basically people were happy that he looked like Trent Edwards and was checking the ball down quite a bit and at times getting the ball out quick for 3 yard passes. That’s not the MVP Allen We all know, and that’s not a player inspiring fear into the rest of the NFL. Squeaking by the Jets doesn’t give a lot of hope that we are Super Bowl bound when Tua is throwing for almost 500 yards, and the rest of the AFC is looking really tough. We don’t loook like a playoff team IMO with Josh playing check down and winning by a possession with the Jets playing Zach Wilson. 

 

But I think this is the point so many are saying - sometimes we don't need MVP Josh. Sometimes we don't need him to inspire fear into the NFL. Sometimes we just need him to win a game. The Trent Edwards approach would have been fine last night, dink and dunk, take the win, regroup and move on.

 

It's week one; the biggest week of under and over reactions. The Bills looked superb in week one last season yet soiled the bed in the Play Offs. Let's hope this year is the other way round.

[Einstein]

It can be more than one thing. And coaching is definitely part of the problem.

 

We played 2 LB’s against 13 personnel last night. We had Rapp playing pseudo LB lined up as a nickel. I mean… no wonder they were gashing us in the run.

[Rc2catch]

I think it’s pretty easy to see there’s a direct correlation to dabol leaving and Allen starting this steady decline. Paired with zero run game, they finished with I think 22 rush attempts in a game they lead most of, which of course is bottom 10 in the league for attempts for the week. Allen is due for his criticism, he’s made it almost impossible to defend him at this point. But they’re not doing him any favors 

[Simon]

15 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think it’s pretty easy to see there’s a direct correlation to dabol leaving and Allen starting this steady decline. Paired with zero run game, they finished with I think 22 rush attempts in a game they lead most of, which of course is bottom 10 in the league for attempts for the week. Allen is due for his criticism, he’s made it almost impossible to defend him at this point. But they’re not doing him any favors 

 

Of those 22 at least 5-6 of them were Allen taking off, so they actually probably only called up about 16 run plays in a game they led all night. 

Might have been a good night to protect Josh from himself.

[26TrapDraw]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

Stupid? No. Forcing the ball? Yes. Don't think this is a stupid thing.JMO Definitely agree with you on bad decisions.

I say Stupid because Allen is not a rookie. When they watch film this week I bet He will say that it was stupid or “I Know Better”. 
Rookie Qb’s do that not 5th year vets. He’s done it a ton. That’s why it’s stupid.

[Rc2catch]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Of those 22 at least 5-6 of them were Allen taking off, so they actually probably only called up about 16 run plays in a game they led all night. 

Which is silly. I was yelling at the tv the whole third quarter to line up in power and use Murray and Harris. Josh had made enough plays to show he was not on his A game and the Jets had him confused and panicking. Run the ball, wear the defense down and kill some clock. This is basic football. You signed two backs for this very situation. Instead they used Harris as a receiver and I think Murray got one carry. That was my biggest takeaway from the game. 

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

Why does this have to a mutually exclusive type situation?

 

Can't Josh have a bad night while we still had a typically mediocre coaching performance?

 

 

[Rocbillsfan1]

I’m not against the dink and dunk per se. but I don’t know how you watch that first half and say yea he looks good or confident in the pocket. He had some quick throws which were fine but he had a lot of other head scratching plays where he looked like a rookie qb that didn’t know how to use the pocket or when to slide or when to run out of bounds or when not to chuck the ball into double coverage to a small Wr when he had a clear open field in front of him. All that adds up to a guy that didn’t look prepared and didn’t look comfortable on a lot of plays. 

[Captain Hindsight]

3 hours ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

I am not a huge McD or Dorsey fan but this was all on Josh. It’s his sixth year, he has to play more situational football. Dorsey isn’t bobbling a snap and not falling on it or launching down the field on 2 and 5.  Geez that was a bad night. This franchise finds some pretty unique ways to frustrate the fan base 

Last night was the first time I've really had doubt Josh can win it all. He scrambled on a play and then tried to jump over 3 guys when he was 7 yards from the 1st down. What are you doing man? He needs to grow up and stop playing hero ball so much. He is an elite talent and until he gets these turnovers under control, they will consistently fall short

 

McDermott and Dorsey better figure out how to help Josh get there. 

[starrymessenger]

4 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Which is silly. I was yelling at the tv the whole third quarter to line up in power and use Murray and Harris. Josh had made enough plays to show he was not on his A game and the Jets had him confused and panicking. Run the ball, wear the defense down and kill some clock. This is basic football. You signed two backs for this very situation. Instead they used Harris as a receiver and I think Murray got one carry. That was my biggest takeaway from the game. 

This. Two big backs and they run Cook between the tackles. Cook can certainly contribute but he shouldn't be confused with J.Gibbs who is bigger and can break tackles. Gibbs can do anything Cook can do. Cook cannot do all that Gibbs can do. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Why does this have to a mutually exclusive type situation?

 

Can't Josh have a bad night while we still had a typically mediocre coaching performance?

 

 

I think they had the right plan this year as opposed to last year at the meadowlands. Quick-hitters, don't allow the jets front 7 to be in play.

 

When that was abandoned, things went up in flames.

 

The question is, WHO abandoned it? I believe it was our intrepid QB

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

I really hope Josh starts working with a sports psychologist, if he isn’t already. He should know the importance of it from his love of professional golf.

 

Most of his issues are mental mistakes that can be corrected, I just hope someone is working with him on it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Evidence:

 

https://x.com/YardsPerPass/status/1701619061853974888?s=20

 

Not one but TWO receivers open for an easy gain, Allen tucks and runs.

 

And it wasn't even like they were long passes, either. One of them was Diggs.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

Obviously Allen was at fault for losing the game last night but coaching is still the bigger problem with this team.  
 

How is it that under McDermott the Bills always seem to blow winnable games in the most spectacular way possible? Just off the top of my head: the Hail Murray game, 13 seconds, last night, Vikings last year, Jets last year, Dolphins last year, Titans 4th and 1, Patriots game where they didn’t throw the ball.

 

 

[Norcalbillsfan]

11 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Also depends how u raise the horse how u nurture the horse. Seems to me like the horse lost his trainer and now needs a new one. 

Possibly, but he's a professional athlete that's been in the league 6 years. Dorsey can't physically walk on the field and point to the open recievers for him. The plays were called the recievers got open, josh didn't execute plain and simple.

[Freddie's Dead]

But it is...

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Evidence:

 

https://x.com/YardsPerPass/status/1701619061853974888?s=20

 

Not one but TWO receivers open for an easy gain, Allen tucks and runs.

 

And it wasn't even like they were long passes, either. One of them was Diggs.

 

theres a lot to not like about that play i think

 

in no particular order allen missing the diggs hot, morse not sliding protection left, and brown wrong footed as per usual

[Believer]

11 hours ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

I disagree not one called play from under center! 

Two QB sneaks.

[FireChans]

28 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

theres a lot to not like about that play i think

 

in no particular order allen missing the diggs hot, morse not sliding protection left, and brown wrong footed as per usual

The bolded solves 2 and 3.

 

Josh didn't want 4 yards. He wanted big play, or chunk play scramble. 

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

 

How can you look around and read this forum and think Josh Allen is some kind of "sacred cow around here"?  Seriously?

 

Dan Orlovsky spelled it out very nicely and IMHO is worth the listen

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/dan-orlovsky-analyzing-josh-allen-s-game-and-week-1-s-loss-to-the-jets

 

The three INT were absolutely throws that should not have been made, and he isn't shy about laying it on a mindset of Josh's that feels like "I will make a completion where there is none to be had".  He says he noted 7 plays where, in his words, Josh was "out of control"

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

How can you look around and read this forum and think Josh Allen is some kind of "sacred cow around here"?  Seriously?

 

Dan Orlovsky spelled it out very nicely and IMHO is worth the listen

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/dan-orlovsky-analyzing-josh-allen-s-game-and-week-1-s-loss-to-the-jets

 

The three INT were absolutely throws that should not have been made, and he isn't shy about laying it on a mindset of Josh's that feels like "I will make a completion where there is none to be had".  He says he noted 7 plays where, in his words, Josh was "out of control"

Read the replies to this thread

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The bolded solves 2 and 3.

 

Josh didn't want 4 yards. He wanted big play, or chunk play scramble. 

Yeah for sure

 

As soon as that DB comes down on blitz diggs is hot...Allen was just completely in his own head at that point

 

The scrambles haven't been as effective ever since DTs realized they can both pass rush and disengage easily on interior

 

 

[3rdand12]

its the Coaches
 

When an employee cannot succeed, Its on management. Period

I have explained this to some of my favorite  managers.
I can dive deep into this. But wont

Josh lost his way last night in the second half. No argument there.

 McD owns the loss. Plain and simple

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Yeah for sure

 

As soon as that DB comes down on blitz diggs is hot...Allen was just completely in his own head at that point

 

The scrambles haven't been as effective ever since DTs realized they can both pass rush and disengage easily on interior

 

 

Jets also have both the horses up front and the familiarity with Josh to make him pay.  That stunt disguised pressure was the cheese and Allen took the bait (as someone else said).

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

its the Coaches
 

When an employee cannot succeed, Its on management. Period

I have explained this to some of my favorite  managers.
I can dive deep into this. But wont

Josh lost his way last night in the second half. No argument there.

 McD owns the loss. Plain and simple

Sometimes the employee is incompetent. That's a legitimate problem