Von Miller and PUP ?????????

[Lifefan1]

I have a feeling that Von Miller will be "active" when cuts are made. It's my understanding that if someone is still on the PUP list when the season starts, that he's out for the 1st 4 weeks and can't even practice (rehab not counting here). If I have this right and he's close, but not quite ready to go, would they may make him "active" with no real intention of playing him right away, but still let him benefit from practice and finish his rehab, so he's ready to fly around once he is ready (even if it's 4 weeks out)? Thoughts?

[C.Biscuit97]

Heard him on pardon my take (very good interview, he has reduced his farting in meetings) but it sounds like they are going to be overly cautious and he/ the team believes in the young guys. They are not going to bring him back until absolutely necessary steps nice the goal is a SB. 
 

side note, I love the over on Groot sack totals. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

We will all find out in less than 24 hours. Being we do not get to see what the team and doctors see and can't feel how he's feeling...it's all speculation anyway.

 

Hopefully Von and the Bills do what's best for Von and the Bills. 

[LeGOATski]

If they do that, aren't they essentially reducing their roster by 1?

 

They can sit Von out while keeping a healthy 53rd for 4 weeks 

[whorlnut]

There is zero reason to subject von to injury early in the season. Let the knee heal more and rest. Truth of the matter is, we got him for January more than September. 

[machine gun kelly]

7 minutes ago, Lifefan1 said:

I have a feeling that Von Miller will be "active" when cuts are made. It's my understanding that if someone is still on the PUP list when the season starts, that he's out for the 1st 4 weeks and can't even practice (rehab not counting here). If I have this right and he's close, but not quite ready to go, would they may make him "active" with no real intention of playing him right away, but still let him benefit from practice and finish his rehab, so he's ready to fly around once he is ready (even if it's 4 weeks out)? Thoughts?

Actually he has to be declared on the reserve pup tomorrow, and then he’s definitely out of commission for a minimum of four games including practice.

 

So you’ll have your answer tomorrow.  If not, he’s on the 53 and comes back whenever he’s ready.  They’d only do that if he has a real shot in weeks 1-4.

[billsbackto81]

Personally I wish we had him for Week 1 and then sit him til the Miami game.

 

Yes, I know it's not an option. 

 

The front line was absolutely dog 💩 when he went out last season. He brings so much motivation to his defensive team mates when he's out there. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

We all knew he was going on the PUP months ago. Let's just hope we don't deal with another White situation where he is cleared but not playing. Doubt that will be the case though. 

Agree with others. No reason to rush him back. They have enough bodies to get through a month without him.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

We all knew he was going on the PUP months ago. Let's just hope we don't deal with another White situation where he is cleared but not playing. Doubt that will be the case though. 

Agree with others. No reason to rush him back. They have enough bodies to get through a month without him.

What you laid out is why players/ agents shouldn’t rush back either. White wasn’t white and got criticized a lot for his play. 
 

of course, not every player has the luxury of a big deal and patience. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Personally I wish we had him for Week 1 and then sit him til the Miami game.

 

Yes, I know it's not an option. 

 

The front line was absolutely dog 💩 when he went out last season. He brings so much motivation to his defensive team mates when he's out there. 

Remember Rousseau and Oliver were playing hurt and Phillips was lost with a bad shoulder. Also McD/Frazier started AJE a few games just to show us how truly awful he is before moving Lawson into the starting role. With Floyd and a healthy Rousseau and Oliver they should be fine. And I dont even like Oliver and I'm saying that. 

I liked the Ford signing too but he has not shown much in preseason and could be a surprise cut.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Ethan in Cleveland

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

If they do that, aren't they essentially reducing their roster by 1?

 

They can sit Von out while keeping a healthy 53rd for 4 weeks 

 

Could also showcase the DE they ultimately have to let go.  It would be great to see the other guys play great and a trade for a Day 3 pick

when Von does return.  It also is insurance if one of them get dinged and has to be out for a while and all of a sudden Von is ready.

[k2mountain]

If we learned anything from Tre'Davious White's journey back from an ACL injury: the Bills are conservative with how they treat injuries.

 

I don't expect Von to play in the first 4 weeks. Heck, he may not even be back until midseason, and I'm OK with that.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

I think he starts the season on the PUP list, which will allow us to keep one extra player on the 53 until he's back.

[Gugny]

35 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What you laid out is why players/ agents shouldn’t rush back either. White wasn’t white and got criticized a lot for his play. 
 

of course, not every player has the luxury of a big deal and patience. 

White wasn’t rushed. He took forever to get back on the field and was horrible when he returned. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 hour ago, Lifefan1 said:

I have a feeling that Von Miller will be "active" when cuts are made. It's my understanding that if someone is still on the PUP list when the season starts, that he's out for the 1st 4 weeks and can't even practice (rehab not counting here). If I have this right and he's close, but not quite ready to go, would they may make him "active" with no real intention of playing him right away, but still let him benefit from practice and finish his rehab, so he's ready to fly around once he is ready (even if it's 4 weeks out)? Thoughts?

This would be a good poll topic. I believe Von will start the season on the PUP, and make 4 games minimum, a guarantee. Otherwise he might get the itch, and push to come back sooner than he needs to.  

[Augie]

21 minutes ago, Gugny said:

White wasn’t rushed. He took forever to get back on the field and was horrible when he returned. 

 

That was a curious situation, indeed. I’m not blaming anyone because I wasn’t behind closed doors, but it was odd. 

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

There is zero reason to subject von to injury early in the season. Let the knee heal more and rest. Truth of the matter is, we got him for January more than September. 

Indeed let him also be 'chomping at the bit' so to speak wanting to be back on the field making plays.  A fresh and eager Von Miller will be a fun watch.  If it means it's gonna be in the latter weeks so be it.  

 

And never know the guys they keep might do a great job and hold their own that they may not need to play Miller too early but keep him very fresh for the stretch run and post season.

Edited August 28, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Warriorspikes51]

I’ll be surprised if he’s not on the PUP

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

If they do that, aren't they essentially reducing their roster by 1?

 

They can sit Von out while keeping a healthy 53rd for 4 weeks 

 

Would just like to add, opening Tre White's window to return early, but him not being ready to play when it was "fish or cut bait" time, is part of the roster "squeeze" that led to the Bills waiving Hodgins and losing him - a move that wound up with the Bills bringing guys off their couches at season end just to have bodies.

 

1 hour ago, k2mountain said:

If we learned anything from Tre'Davious White's journey back from an ACL injury: the Bills are conservative with how they treat injuries.

 

I don't expect Von to play in the first 4 weeks. Heck, he may not even be back until midseason, and I'm OK with that.

 

Actually, see above; the Bills have, in the past, been aggressive/optimistic about their anticipated timeline for various players' return.  They have kept guys off IR who wound up missing 4-5 games repeatedly.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[k2mountain]

14 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Actually, see above; the Bills have, in the past, been aggressive/optimistic about their anticipated timeline for various players' return.  They have kept guys off IR who wound up missing 4-5 games repeatedly.

Curious. Please give an example of aggressive return from injury for me to Google.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

For the amount of money they’re paying him, I’d activate him abd at least make him carry the water jugs or something 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

Only 9 question marks? That's weak. 14 is the minimum, dude. 

[AuntieEm]

42 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

For the amount of money they’re paying him, I’d activate him abd at least make him carry the water jugs or something 

 

 He can carry the water jugs as part of his rehab so he can stay on PUP until he's not feeling like betty white needing a snickers bar.  

[YattaOkasan]

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

White wasn’t rushed. He took forever to get back on the field and was horrible when he returned. 

You need to define terrible. Cause he allowed a passer rating of 75 in 2022. He wasn’t as good as he was in all pro year or 2021 but he was comparable to his rookie season and 2020. Better throw some respect on that name. 

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, YattaOkasan said:

You need to define terrible. Cause he allowed a passer rating of 75 in 2022. He wasn’t as good as he was in all pro year or 2021 but he was comparable to his rookie season and 2020. Better throw some respect on that name. 

 I also believe the OP may have meant by activating tre off pup so early maybe pushed tre to get back on field a tad early whereas if he remained rehabbing a few more weeks he might have had more trust in the repaired acl.  It's common for it to take an additional year to get back from acl injuries.  Once the 4 week countdown started  he maybe pushed too hard  and that would easily effect his confidence in acl stability.

 

Edit  this was meant as a reply to gugny as I agree with you YattaOkasan.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by AuntieEm

[RobbRiddick]

Sal seems to think he'll be on the 53, for what it's worth

[eball]

I’ve been thinking about the pros and cons of putting Von on the 53 to begin the season.  The Bills’ defense is on the field for what, 65-70 snaps per game?  If Von is eased into the lineup and only plays 15-20 snaps for the first few games (roughly 20-25%) isn’t that still better than not having him?

 

Obviously this is all contingent on him being “ready to go.”  We know the goal is to have him healthy for the stretch run.

 

[ALF]

Lets hope Leonard Floyd can fill in for Von 

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, k2mountain said:

Curious. Please give an example of aggressive return from injury for me to Google.

 

First off, note my specific phrasing: "the Bills have, in the past, been aggressive/optimistic about their anticipated timeline for various players' return.  They have kept guys off IR who wound up missing 4-5 games repeatedly." (I'm actually mistaken - it's more often missing 3 games and playing in the 4th, but ineffective - and in 2020, IR was 3 games)

 

That's not quite the same as "aggressive return from injury" and I'm not sure what Google will get you on that. 

 

The most public and google-able examples of aggressive return from injury:

2022.  Gabe Davis, reported ankle sprain prior to week 2.  Missed Week 2 game; questionable for week  3 and 4 but played.  After the season, Davis acknowledged and Beane stated that the "nagging injury" had bothered him all season.  Maybe if he sat for a couple weeks and healed, he would have been better thru the season?

2020.  Cole Beasley.  Missed one game with a "knee" injury.  Played 3 playoff games.  After the season, it was reported he was playing on a broken leg.  Maybe the decision to do that had some impact on Beasley's long term athleticism?  He contributed heavily in 2 of 3 playoff games

2021.  Injured week 8.  Listed as "Questionable" for week 9 but played.  It was later reported (by his agent) he was playing through cracked ribs.  It was notable that his targets and yardage plummeted week 9-12

 

A few examples of the not-IRing injured player but having them miss an equivalent-to-IR number of games:

2020  Matt Milano.  Injured Week 4.   No IR.  Missed 2 games Week 5 and Week 6.  Played Week 7 and Week 8 but minimal snaps, wearing brace, and plainly ineffective - couldn't even lift his arm to tackle.  Went on IR Week 9 for 3 weeks (in 2020, IR was 3 weeks).  If that's not aggressive with an injury, don't know what is.

2020 Dawson Knox.  Injured Week 5.  Stayed in the game and threw TD pass with broken hand, had surgery.  Missed 3 weeks, (was on Covid list but probably wouldn't have played, for 2 of those 3).  Played in his 4th week, but only about 1/3 of his usual snaps and clearly couldn't block.

 

There are more, but I'm out of time to dig.  Good luck with your Google. 

 

Bottom line, I think it's a myth that the Bills are particularly conservative with injuries.  It depends upon the injury, and of course the player.  Some players want to play and will lobby for that pretty ferociously.  I'm not trying to say the Bills are careless with players health either, but at the end of the day it's football and they're a football team.

 

[Scott7975]

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

10 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I like it. What that says to me is the knee itself is ready and he just needed time to get comfortable cutting on it and get into gameday shape. Gives him a bit extra to be ready. I have a feeling his first game back he's going to play like he was shot out of a cannon. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I like it. What that says to me is the knee itself is ready and he just needed time to get comfortable cutting on it and get into gameday shape. Gives him a bit extra to be ready. I have a feeling his first game back he's going to play like he was shot out of a cannon. 

 

Yeah, I don't want to see him rushed and then have another blow out.  I don't think he will play week 5 because he can't practice at all on PuP and thats a short week.  Probably take some time to get in football shape.

[njbuff]

My guess is that the staff wants him ready by the Cincinnati game as they will have a 10 day layoff after the Tampa Bay game before the Bengals game. 

[The Wiz]

It might have just been me, but he sounded kinda down that they put him on PUP.

 

Like he said, he's a football player and wants to play but it sounded like it caught him by surprise honestly (especially after his doctor cleared him).

 

 

The other part that hurts is that it means he cant fully practice with the team until after week 4 the earliest.

 

So is working out and doing those PUP drills for the next 4 weeks (the same he's been doing already) going to get the rest of his body and mind in shape and ready for week 5? 6? 7? 10?

 

I know they play it safe with injuries but not having him on the field but practicing is a lot better than not having him on the field and riding a bike.

Edited September 7, 2023 by The Wiz

[Beck Water]

 

 

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I think we can all agree that we will forego Von sacks in September for some sacks in January and February.