Training Camp - 8/9 - 9:45am

[Philo]

3 minutes ago, yall said:

Sherfield, Shavers, Shorter, Shakir..

 

Sh** is getting hard to keep straight!

 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

I want my mind to change about Gabe Davis.  He's having a good camp from what I've been reading....hope it sticks.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

Really eager to see this version of Gabe Davis . Sounds as if he’s improved.  More importantly, eager to see if his feet can stay injury free this year. The biggest year of his lifetime by a mile

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Really eager to see this version of Gabe Davis . Sounds as if he’s improved.  More importantly, eager to see if his feet can stay injury free this year. The biggest year of his lifetime by a mile

Agree. I was really hard on him last year and want him to pan out. I’m just concerned about the translation from practice to actual games. The dude is a hard worker, but it doesn’t mean much if his drops continue when the lights are on. 

[Lost]

Just now, NewEra said:

Really eager to see this version of Gabe Davis . Sounds as if he’s improved.  More importantly, eager to see if his feet can stay injury free this year. The biggest year of his lifetime by a mile

 

Would suck to see him ball out and have a 80 catch 1200 yd season and then the Bills have to let him walk.   Hope Beane can find a way to keep him if he does earn his stripes this year.  

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Really eager to see this version of Gabe Davis . Sounds as if he’s improved.  More importantly, eager to see if his feet can stay injury free this year. The biggest year of his lifetime by a mile

 

Supposedly he came to camp lighter.

[Alphadawg7]

22 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Shakir dropsies are becoming a thing. It’s quite possible Sherfield surpasses him, especially with his superior run blocking ability. 

 

They aren't competing for the same position.  Sherfield is a lock already as the WR3 behind Diggs and Davis on the outside.  Shakir and Harty are competing for reps atop the slot WR depth chart.  If anyone is a threat to passing Shakir its Harty who has had a strong camp.  

 

Ideally, I don't think they want to rely on Harty as the lead slot guy though, especially given Hines injury forcing Harty to the top of the depth chart as a kick and punt returner.  With his injury history, the more reps he gets the higher risk of another injury given his small frame.  Their original plan was him to be the deep threat, a guy who could take the top off the defense, and also handle some of the McKenzie type plays too.  

 

The biggest risk to Shakir being passed up by Harty is actually Kincaid and how good he has looked.  With how much Kincaid has shined so far, the could easily manage Harty's reps (reducing injury risks) at the slot position by lining Kincaid up there instead rather than any "slot" WR.  So that alone I think removes some concerns about Harty having a "starting" role at the slot and can manage his use rate to hopefully keep the guy healthy as much as possible, especially if he is handling all kick return duties too.  

 

Sp Shakir is going to start needing to stand out for the right reasons as the intensity of camp turns up with preseason here and he needs to make plays or I think Harty will over take him and relegate Shakir to a backup role similar to last year.  His roster slot I think is safe regardless given there is no one behind them, especially with Harty's injury history.  But his spot as the top slot guy is still something he needs to earn and Harty isn't going to make it easy.

 

All that being said, I am still optimistic about Shakir, but that doesn't change the fact that he has to show it out on the field still.

[whorlnut]

6 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Would suck to see him ball out and have a 80 catch 1200 yd season and then the Bills have to let him walk.   Hope Beane can find a way to keep him if he does earn his stripes this year.  

Good point. It’s a tough spot for Beane. He can try to lock him up before the games start or he can “wait and see” if his drops disappear. Either way it’s a huge gamble. 

[Process]

8 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Would suck to see him ball out and have a 80 catch 1200 yd season and then the Bills have to let him walk.   Hope Beane can find a way to keep him if he does earn his stripes this year.  

It's a risk we have to take. No way he should be extended right now. 

[Lost]

 

 

 

[stevewin]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I've said on here before the four practices I saw I didn't see Morris miss a catch

[Goin Breakdown]

20 minutes ago, yall said:

Sherfield, Shavers, Shorter, Shakir..

 

Sh** is getting hard to keep straight!

 

Shirfield's shavers shaved shakir's shtubble shorter. 

[eball]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Good point. It’s a tough spot for Beane. He can try to lock him up before the games start or he can “wait and see” if his drops disappear. Either way it’s a huge gamble. 

 

I don’t think it’s a tough spot at all.  I bet Beane is trying to get it done; the likely holdup is Gabe wanting to ball out and see what he really commands on the open market.

 

[Lost]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Not a tough spot at all. Let him earn a big contract… I wouldn’t even think of a big extension now. He hasn’t earned it on the field. 

 

Well he kinda did in 2021 playoffs.  Had 13 seconds not happened he woulda been a huge reason we probably made a SB appearance.

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Not a tough spot at all. Let him earn a big contract… I wouldn’t even think of a big extension now. He hasn’t earned it on the field. 

Nobody said anything about a big extension right now. I’ll bet Beane has approached him about a reasonable extension but it’s likely Davis is willing to bet on himself sort of like edmunds did. 

[Don Otreply]

4 minutes ago, stevewin said:

I've said on here before the four practices I saw I didn't see Morris miss a catch

We appear to have a strong TE room this season,  imo it is a given that DK x2 & QM are pretty much  a lock

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not a tough spot at all. Let him earn a big contract… I wouldn’t even think of a big extension now. He hasn’t earned it on the field. 

 

Is there a number you'd be willing to go to for him?  Or just a no in general?

 

I think I would be good with anything under or around 3yrs/40M.

 

I have to think he wants more than that though.  

[The Wiz]

10 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Shirfield's shavers shaved shakir's shtubble shorter. 

Wait.... when did we get a player named Shtubble?

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not a tough spot at all. Let him earn a big contract… I wouldn’t even think of a big extension now. He hasn’t earned it on the field. 

 

Yeah we have to start making some tough decisions. We should do what the Steelers do and draft a WR every year. Let the WR2 walk, collect a nice comp pick, plug in the new guy, rinse and repeat. Extending Davis now is a gamble a team with a better future cap situation could take. For us it's way too risky IMO.

[CapeBreton]

9 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing Latavius Murray in action, he's still got some juice! I also don't think James Cook can handle the workload everyone is expecting so we should expect plenty of Murray/Harris.

[B-Man]

 

 

More:

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

That running back room is getting a little thin for my liking luckily it looks like Damien is ok 

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah we have to start making some tough decisions. We should do what the Steelers do and draft a WR every year. Let the WR2 walk, collect a nice comp pick, plug in the new guy, rinse and repeat. Extending Davis now is a gamble a team with a better future cap situation could take. For us it's way too risky IMO.

 

Regardless of how well he plays this season, I would let him walk.  Draft a WR high next year.  If Sherfield is as good as advertised in camp, he can take Davis' spot when he leaves.

Diggs isn't slowing down for another few years.  Let the draft pick develop to take over Diggs spot down the road.

 

The 2023 season hasn't even started and I'm already talking about like 2025 lol.

[The Jokeman]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not a tough spot at all. Let him earn a big contract… I wouldn’t even think of a big extension now. He hasn’t earned it on the field. 

He's been around the Zay Jones area in terms of receiving yards and a top 25 guy in terms of receiving TDs, somebody is going to give him a big contract (Denver, Baltimore, Indy maybe New Orleans or Tampa) as despite what many here feel he is an above average #2 WRs.  Ie teams with not an elite #1 and questions behind them (I likse Tampa and New Orleans as could see them saving cap with a salary dump). 

[Bangarang]

49 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

It’s just practice.

You totally got me. This gotcha attempt was way better than your last. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Biggest crowd reaction so far today was on a Shakir drop

 

are you there? or did I miss the sar chasm?

Edited August 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[eball]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Regardless of how well he plays this season, I would let him walk.  Draft a WR high next year.  If Sherfield is as good as advertised in camp, he can take Davis' spot when he leaves.

Diggs isn't slowing down for another few years.  Let the draft pick develop to take over Diggs spot down the road.

 

The 2023 season hasn't even started and I'm already talking about like 2025 lol.

 

I disagree.  There is benefit to both sides to do an extension now.  Beane is betting that Gabe's "flashes" will become the norm and getting a discount, and Gabe is getting security and staying with an organization (and superstar QB) who will maximize his career.

 

It only doesn't make sense if you believe Gabe is a flop.

 

[Beck Water]

18 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

More:

 

 

 

Did you catch Josh Allen talking about Murray mic'd up at the Return of the Blue and Red? 

"He's huge.  I wouldn't want to tackle him" 

"You guys are the same size!" 

"Well, I wouldn't want to tackle me, either!"

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Regardless of how well he plays this season, I would let him walk.  Draft a WR high next year.  If Sherfield is as good as advertised in camp, he can take Davis' spot when he leaves.

Diggs isn't slowing down for another few years.  Let the draft pick develop to take over Diggs spot down the road.

 

The 2023 season hasn't even started and I'm already talking about like 2025 lol.

 

I'm torn on this.   

 

Locking down Gabe "if" he makes the jump to high level WR2, would give us a fantastic Offensive core at the skill positions of Diggs, Davis, Knox, Kincaid and Cook locked down for multiple years together. 

 

That said.. It's probably easier to find an early impact WR2 in the draft than it is DL.. and after this year we only have 4 guys under contract in Von, Rousseau, Oliver and Basham - which could very well only be 3 before the season starts if Basham gets traded/cut. 

[Chicken Boo]

Latavius Murray has only had over 150 carries 4 times in his career.  

 

Those 33 year old legs are fresher than most.  

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I disagree.  There is benefit to both sides to do an extension now.  Beane is betting that Gabe's "flashes" will become the norm and getting a discount, and Gabe is getting security and staying with an organization (and superstar QB) who will maximize his career.

 

It only doesn't make sense if you believe Gabe is a flop.

 

Its more that I don’t think he’s a volume guy.  When you pay him that much, or what’s expected, that should be a reliable volume guy.

 

He’s a 50% catch rate down the field guy.  He gets you those big chunks and when he does it’s awesome.  But even back at his UCF days, he doesn’t produce much at all in the short game.

 

I wouldn’t want to pay that much for someone who isn’t a well rounded WR.

I think he is replaceable at a cheaper rate.

[Bangarang]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Regardless of how well he plays this season, I would let him walk.  Draft a WR high next year.  If Sherfield is as good as advertised in camp, he can take Davis' spot when he leaves.

Diggs isn't slowing down for another few years.  Let the draft pick develop to take over Diggs spot down the road.

 

The 2023 season hasn't even started and I'm already talking about like 2025 lol.

In a perfect world, Kinkaid is the weapon we all hope and essentially becomes our #2 receiver. Takes the pressure off of needing a rookie WR to have an immediate impact.

[Logic]

Regarding the "should we pay Gabe?" talk...

It's the reason a lot of folks wanted the Bills to draft a round 1 or 2 receiver this year. That way, if said rookie looked the part, they could let Gabe walk and spend the money elsewhere. 

That said, obviously the board just didn't fall that way, and they wound up taking an impact pass catcher at a different position. I'm fine with that, and I understand their line of thinking. HOWEVER....it doesn't really alleviate the "what do you do about Gabe Davis?" question.

As for the notion someone floated earlier about drafting a WR reasonably high every year like the Steelers and churning through them as a matter of organizational practice...I'd be fine with that IF this Bills front office had shown any hint yet that they now how to find and cultivate WR talent. As far as I can tell, Gabe is their only WR "find" in the draft to date. Different organizations have different positional draft strengths. The Steelers seem to know how to find and cultivate WR talent. The Bills have not shown that they do.

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Regardless of how well he plays this season, I would let him walk.  Draft a WR high next year.  If Sherfield is as good as advertised in camp, he can take Davis' spot when he leaves.

 

That's a big "if".  It's very rare that anyone  is as good as advertised in camp.

 

Isaiah McKenzie was playing lights-out in camp last season and looked totally solid as a slot.  It's different in the regular season when the DBs aren't playing to avoid injury and are actually trying to rip your arms off and crack your ribs.

 

32 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

More:

 

 

 

Players at other positions say that speed is the last thing to go.  I think the reason RBs "age out" is that it becomes harder and harder to heal from the punishment they take during the season.  But maybe we can use him very sparingly and keep him healthy.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

Regarding the "should we pay Gabe?" talk...

It's the reason a lot of folks wanted the Bills to draft a round 1 or 2 receiver this year. That way, if said rookie looked the part, they could let Gabe walk and spend the money elsewhere. 

That said, obviously the board just didn't fall that way, and they wound up taking an impact pass catcher at a different position. I'm fine with that, and I understand their line of thinking. HOWEVER....it doesn't really alleviate the "what do you do about Gabe Davis?" question.

As for the notion someone floated earlier about drafting a WR reasonably high every year like the Steelers and churning through them as a matter of organizational practice...I'd be fine with that IF this Bills front office had shown any hint yet that they now how to find and cultivate WR talent. As far as I can tell, Gabe is their only WR "find" in the draft to date. Different organizations have different positional draft strengths. The Steelers seem to know how to find and cultivate WR talent. The Bills have not shown that they do.

Jones and Hodgins can both play in the NFL, they just got moved before they could prove it here

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

That catch by Kincaid was such a good rep on a lot of fronts.

 

1. Play starts off with Dodson having almost perfect coverage. From what we have seen so far in TC...not an easy task on Kincaid. 99 times out of 100 that ball isn't even thrown to his man.

 

2. Allen places that ball low and away where only Kincaid has a shot at it.

 

3. Kincaid makes the sick grab.

 

Excellent job by all three. 

 

Looked like Kincaid was held, too.  I think one reason why the Bills traded up for a promising receiving TE.  The question was, how would he do against the more physical play in the NFL? and early returns say "just fine".

 

You can just tell the guy is "built different" from the way he practices.  Did you see the clip of him warming up on the sideline?  Other receivers face the guy throwing the ball.  He was facing away, doing that fake run thing they do, then turned, quickly adjusted to the throw, and caught it.  Another session, someone was tossing him multiple tennis balls at once and he was catching the second while holding the first he caught.

 

It made me think maybe we don't insert enough "degree of difficulty" into how the other receivers practice.

 

Edit: upon looking harder at the film clip, I believe that might be one of those annoying calls where it's pretty clear the ball is on the receiver's arm and he's controlling it, but the point touches the ground before he gets it against his body or brings in a 2nd hand so the @#$@#%#ers overturn the "catch" ruling.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[Airseven]

It doesn't make sense to extend Davis now if you think he can be replaced by a round 2-3 draft choice (particularly for a cap-strapped team). To bet on substantial improvement to the point he becomes irreplaceable isn't prudent. Beane doesn't have that luxury. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

If that happens so be it.

If he becomes the WR2 that you’ve been hoping for….. and we lose him…. So be it.

 

Ironic 

 

edit:  I feel like the only WR2 you’d be happy with is a proven WR1

Edited August 9, 2023 by NewEra

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They aren't competing for the same position.  Sherfield is a lock already as the WR3 behind Diggs and Davis on the outside.  Shakir and Harty are competing for reps atop the slot WR depth chart.  If anyone is a threat to passing Shakir its Harty who has had a strong camp.  

 

Ideally, I don't think they want to rely on Harty as the lead slot guy though, especially given Hines injury forcing Harty to the top of the depth chart as a kick and punt returner.  With his injury history, the more reps he gets the higher risk of another injury given his small frame.  Their original plan was him to be the deep threat, a guy who could take the top off the defense, and also handle some of the McKenzie type plays too.  

 

The biggest risk to Shakir being passed up by Harty is actually Kincaid and how good he has looked.  With how much Kincaid has shined so far, the could easily manage Harty's reps (reducing injury risks) at the slot position by lining Kincaid up there instead rather than any "slot" WR.  So that alone I think removes some concerns about Harty having a "starting" role at the slot and can manage his use rate to hopefully keep the guy healthy as much as possible, especially if he is handling all kick return duties too.  

 

Sp Shakir is going to start needing to stand out for the right reasons as the intensity of camp turns up with preseason here and he needs to make plays or I think Harty will over take him and relegate Shakir to a backup role similar to last year.  His roster slot I think is safe regardless given there is no one behind them, especially with Harty's injury history.  But his spot as the top slot guy is still something he needs to earn and Harty isn't going to make it easy.

 

All that being said, I am still optimistic about Shakir, but that doesn't change the fact that he has to show it out on the field still.

I think shakir and Sherfield are definitely competing for snaps.  Not only vs each other, but vs Harty and Kincaid as well.  Sherfield is listed as outside…: but he was the starting slot for Miami last year.  He can definitely play inside.  He’s a much better blocker and so far in camp, has been a much more reliable pass catcher (if reports are true).

 

I’m on record as loving the shakir pick and the player.  That said- it’s time to put up or shut up.  There’s a chance he’s buried behind Kincaid- Harty and Sherfield in terms of snaps.  If he keeps dropping the ball, I’d rather we have Morris out there and run more 13 personnel.  Morris has been a standout and I think he’s a player.  
 

I don’t think shakir will get cut, but if his drops continue, I wouldn’t blame them for cutting him loose. A WR ain’t **** if his hands can’t be trusted.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

That catch by Kincaid was such a good rep on a lot of fronts.

 

1. Play starts off with Dodson having almost perfect coverage. From what we have seen so far in TC...not an easy task on Kincaid. 99 times out of 100 that ball isn't even thrown to his man.

 

2. Allen places that ball low and away where only Kincaid has a shot at it.

 

3. Kincaid makes the sick grab.

 

Excellent job by all three. 

And Diggs is the first guy to congratulate him. I read somewhere on here he was a problem diva WR???