Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Gabe’s catch % was in the 50s. That’s awful. 
 

No need to sugar coat his play. Gabe was Mr inconsistent last season, like the season before…. And the season before that. 

James Cook?

 

I got news for you, if Cook becomes a “star” back the Bills aren’t resigning him no matter how much cap space they have….there is literally no point in wasting cap on that kind of back with this offense…. My guess is he’ll be very easily replaced by a lower wage FA signing or mid round pick when the time comes. 
 

Kincaid is on his rookie contract for at least the next four… and Elam the next three with the option.

 

Come on, are we really worried about cap three years down the line? 

 

Yes. The deal being floated around is for 2-3 seasons with up to 3 dead cap years tacked on to the end until 2028.

 

Do the math.

[Warriorspikes51]

6 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Yes. The deal being floated around is for 2-3 seasons with up to 3 dead cap years tacked on to the end until 2028.

 

Do the math.

Monopoly money. There’s your math.
 

The Cap is a guideline that can be worked around, especially by franchises with generous owners. It’s not a major concern. The Cap will also continue to increase

 

 

Beane!! It’s time to give DHop some FUN COUPONS! Lets Go!!!

Edited May 29, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[4merper4mer]

30 minutes ago, arcadia bob said:

Update....See previous post.... Bills made DH a offer on a 2-year deal. Told it was a very good offer with great bonuses etc. but DH wants a few things in the contract that BB doesn't want to include. I asked if he was still in play for KC and he said he doesn't know. Just passing on what I've been told ,,,,,,

Are we still trading for Sean Payton too?

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Also America in 1823, 1923, 1953, 1973 and all the other years leading up to 2023.  This is how life works. 

Not for me. My family being comfortable is the most important thing in my life.  I turn down more lucrative jobs on the reg.  Probably 2-3 jobs a year on average.  
 

 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

And adding 2-3 dead cap years where he isn't on the team. Which is what he's talking about. 

 

Players like Dalton Kincaid, James Cook, Kaiir Elam, etc could become superstars in the league that we have to pay a premium for and the belt will be tightened by a deal we made this season for a player who will probably no longer be on the team.

Pegula should fire Beane on the spot if he ever gave a RB a lucrative second contract.  It's the one position where you just draft them on day two or three, let them play out their rookie deal, and then pray you get a comp pick for them.

[arcadia bob]

2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Are we still trading for Sean Payton too?

Never said we were trading for SP go back to sleep.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Fans don't actually believe gabe Davis is a number 2 receiver do they? Could he eventually develop into one, of course

 

But number 2 receiver needs to be improved if the bills want to be a super bowl winner 

 

At this point it's hoping Davis improves a good amount to become a 2, so if a receiver is available that can be the bills number 2 you need to be interested 

[4merper4mer]

16 minutes ago, arcadia bob said:

Never said we were trading for SP go back to sleep.

Should and would  are different.  I’ll grant that.  Still, both notions were and are ridiculous.

2 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Fans don't actually believe gabe Davis is a number 2 receiver do they? Could he eventually develop into one, of course

 

But number 2 receiver needs to be improved if the bills want to be a super bowl winner 

 

At this point it's hoping Davis improves a good amount to become a 2, so if a receiver is available that can be the bills number 2 you need to be interested 

We don’t have the 53 best players in the NFL therefore Beane is a failure.

[BillsFanForever19]

29 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Monopoly money. There’s your math.
 

The Cap is a guideline that can be worked around, especially by franchises with generous owners. It’s not a major concern. The Cap will also continue to increase

 

The cap is real. You can't just spend whatever, whenever. It isn't "just a guideline". When you have a team of stars, spending and pushing the can down the road time and again comes at a cost. 

 

And yes, as many like to point out, the cap is going to increase. But you know what else increases when the cap does? The price of contracts. Teams spend more to compete with other teams for players when they have more.

Edited May 29, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The cap is real. You can't just spend whatever, whenever. It isn't "just a guideline". When you have a team of stars, spending and pushing the can down the road time and again comes at a cost. 

 

And yes, as many like to point out, the cap is going to increase. But you know what else increases when the cap does? The price of contracts. Teams spend more to compete with other teams for players when they have more.

Killjoy.  Why ruin the 400 page dreamworld where Hopkins isn’t AJ Green part 2 and there is no cap?

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The cap is real. You can't just spend whatever, whenever. It isn't "just a guideline". When you have a team of stars, spending and pushing the can down the road time and again comes at a cost. 

 

And yes, as many like to point out, the cap is going to increase. But you know what else increases when the cap does? The price of contracts. Teams spend more to compete with other teams for players when they have more.

Still, we are in a position where we can pull some levers and make this happen
 

I would like to see a Super Bowl win before I die

[Cheektowaga Chad]

7 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Should and would  are different.  I’ll grant that.  Still, both notions were and are ridiculous.

We don’t have the 53 best players in the NFL therefore Beane is a failure.

Not really sure where I mentioned beane and needing the top 53 in the NFL but

 

Beane obviously agrees with my statement in upgrading the receiving options as he tried to sign obj, trade for Hopkins and drafted Kincaid in round one 

[BillsFanForever19]

18 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Killjoy.  Why ruin the 400 page dreamworld where Hopkins isn’t AJ Green part 2 and there is no cap?

 

I think Hopkins is still an Elite WR. And I would like us to get him.

 

But these ideas that there is absolutely no pitfall to the type of contract it would take to get him and that if Hopkins himself chooses to sign elsewhere that it's Brandon Beane's fault and he needs to pay are ridiculous.

[Chandler#81]

9 hours ago, Augie said:

 

But, what does this mean for the Easter Bunny? 

 

I’m in wait an and see mood. I don’t want to get all excited, only to be disappointed. 

I heard he ran off with the tooth farie

[BuffBills51]

This usually plays out two ways. Either the player wants to win a ring and signs with a competitor or they chase their last big paycheck. It seems the majority of the time the player chases the highest paycheck. 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I think Hopkins is still an Elite WR. And I would like us to get him.

 

But these ideas that there is absolutely no pitfall to the type of contract it would take to get him and that if Hopkins himself chooses to sign elsewhere that it's Brandon Beane's fault and he needs to pay are ridiculous.

 

 

What do YOU actually envision the long term cap consequences being if they sign Hopkins?    

 

As a professional numbers person myself..........I'm quite certain the the consequence may be just one very silent offseason where they lose a good young player in UFA and have to cut some veteran defenders they'd prefer not to..........followed by a year with a bottom third of the league defense and the Bills offense having to win a lot of shootouts.........and then the following offseason being back in the market for free agents and balancing the roster again.

 

There isn't going to be any big roster teardown that isn't going to have to come ANYWAY.    In the next few years Von, Diggs, Hyde, Poyer, White, Dawkins, Morse, Milano and Taron are all going to age out most likely.     They started this ball rolling when they traded the chance at a 21-22 year old rookie WR to get Stefon Diggs.  It accelerated their development but sure.......that comes at a cost.   You aren't going to get 10 years out of a 26-27 year old acquisition.  

 

If they draft smartly and do what it takes to make Josh Allen look like a $50M QB year-in-and-out.........which is easier to pull off when he has a Lombardi trophy to his name...........then they will have access to very good replacement personnel at team friendly prices.

 

[Special K]

8 hours ago, SACTOBILLSFAN said:

Per a buddy of mine that knows the KC director of player personnel Tim Terry, Hopkins to KC. No idea on any details or if it’s actually a done deal but I know that he knows Terry and he’s never given me a scoop or anything so take it for what it’s worth. 

 

My girlfriend's cousin's neighbor's aunt works for the Atlanta Falcons, and per her, the Falcons are not signing D-Hop................so take it for what it's worth..............

 

 

 

(Seriously, I hope you are wrong!)

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, arcadia bob said:

Update....See previous post.... Bills made DH a offer on a 2-year deal. Told it was a very good offer with great bonuses etc. but DH wants a few things in the contract that BB doesn't want to include. I asked if he was still in play for KC and he said he doesn't know. Just passing on what I've been told ,,,,,,

what does DH want that BB does not?

[Einstein]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

They started this ball rolling when they traded the chance at a 21-22 year old rookie WR to get Stefon Diggs.  

 

Great point.

 

We have now traded both the Mahomes pick, and the Jefferson pick.

 

We traded the picks that became the best QB in the league, and the best WR in the league.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

here we go again with the CAP!! 
 

Teams who have Owners that are willing to throw Cash $ around get to play by a slightly different set of rules.

 

 

 

How would anyone be against this?

 

I actually like Gabe and think the injury really affected him last year and think he's due for a bounce back year...

 

BUT...

 

3 years with Diggs & DHop along with Gabe's final "prove it" year plus Knox, Kincaid, & Cook for multiple years

 

vs

 

Praying for Gabe to finally be the #2 we all hoped for along with giving us a hometown discount 

 

...

 

choice seems obvious...

 

Especially when you consider all the draft picks we still have next year. Who's to say we also don't just trade up for Marvin Harrison Jr. as Diggs and Nuke settle into their 30s?

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Great point.

 

We have now traded both the Mahomes pick, and the Jefferson pick.

 

We traded the picks that became the best QB in the league, and the best WR in the league.

 

 

Which supports 3 notions.........having a franchise QB can cover up for a ton of personnel mistakes(and JA17 might be the second best QB in football)......... the Belichick take that you have to be making bad moves all the time to be bad in the NFL because there are abundant chances to make up for said mistakes..........and the old axiom that it's better to be lucky than good.

 

Bill Polian lucked into having the exclusive negotiating rights to Jim Kelly.    He parlayed that Buffalo luck into taking two other jobs where he got a chance to draft a franchise QB very early in the draft.   He hit on one of 2 and now.......largely due to fortune........ people look back on him like he was great.    

 

But he is also the dumbass that traded Marshall Faulk for a second round pick so he could pick another RB 4th overall..............and then watched Faulk become the best player in football the next few seasons while he struggled to build a championship caliber defense.   Faulk went to 2 SB's and won one.   Edge James aged out before the Colts won Polian's one career SB with Joseph Addai at RB.   Polian also refused to trade draft picks to add talent to put those SB Bills teams over the top.........to this day it's still inexplicable to me that he wasn't in on Charles Haley.   It was exasperating in real time.  The Niners traded him to their biggest traditional rival,  which illustrates how desperate they were to move him.  

 

 

 

 

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

How would anyone be against this?

 

I actually like Gabe and think the injury really affected him last year and think he's due for a bounce back year...

 

BUT...

 

3 years with Diggs & DHop along with Gabe's final "prove it" year plus Knox, Kincaid, & Cook for multiple years

 

vs

 

Praying for Gabe to finally be the #2 we all hoped for along with giving us a hometown discount 

 

...

 

choice seems obvious...

 

Especially when you consider all the draft picks we still have next year. Who's to say we also don't just trade up for Marvin Harrison Jr. as Diggs and Nuke settle into their 30s?

 

Not gonna be able to trade up into the Top 5 when we're picking at 32 😉

 

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Great point.

 

We have now traded both the Mahomes pick, and the Jefferson pick.

 

We traded the picks that became the best QB in the league, and the best WR in the league.

 

Terrible f'n luck. No one could have foreseen either happening. 

 

Luckily, the Mahomes move (plus moving Cordy Glenn) facilitated us getting Josh, Tre, and Edmunds (who we got 5 years out of) and Jefferson got us Diggs. 

 

So it still worked out fairly comparable.

Edited May 29, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[TheWeatherMan]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Great point.

 

We have now traded both the Mahomes pick, and the Jefferson pick.

 

We traded the picks that became the best QB in the league, and the best WR in the league.

Best WR in the league is disputable, Mahomes at QB isn’t.  

Edited May 29, 2023 by TheWeatherMan

[UKBillFan]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Great point.

 

We have now traded both the Mahomes pick, and the Jefferson pick.

 

We traded the picks that became the best QB in the league, and the best WR in the league.

 

But probably the right approach at the time. I'd love to switch offences/schemes for a game and see if Mahomes could do any more than Josh with what he's given - especially without the Kelce safety blanket and Reid play calling. Not saying he isn't a world class QB but he's got a world class team. 

 

Diggs for Jefferson was also probably the right call, even in hindsight. At that point of time, the Bills needed experience at WR, someone to help Josh along. We say 'Mahomes wouldn't have done as well at Orchard Park', but I don't think Jefferson would have done as well here either.as number one WR. Now Diggs AND Jefferson, on the other hand...

[BananaB]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Great point.

 

We have now traded both the Mahomes pick, and the Jefferson pick.

 

We traded the picks that became the best QB in the league, and the best WR in the league.

 

Allen is the best QB in football. There isn’t a player in the game that is asked to do more for his team than him. They got drafted to completely opposite situations and KC was by far the more appealing place to land. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Allen is the best QB in football. There isn’t a player in the game that is asked to do more for his team than him. They got drafted to completely opposite situations and KC was by far the more appealing place to land. 

 

I'll hold off on saying who is the best, but I'm more than fine taking Josh over Mahomes and I doubt the Bills would have drafted Jefferson.  But give me Reid and Spagnuolo any day.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Doc

[MasterStrategist]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What do YOU actually envision the long term cap consequences being if they sign Hopkins?    

 

As a professional numbers person myself..........I'm quite certain the the consequence may be just one very silent offseason where they lose a good young player in UFA and have to cut some veteran defenders they'd prefer not to..........followed by a year with a bottom third of the league defense and the Bills offense having to win a lot of shootouts.........and then the following offseason being back in the market for free agents and balancing the roster again.

 

There isn't going to be any big roster teardown that isn't going to have to come ANYWAY.    In the next few years Von, Diggs, Hyde, Poyer, White, Dawkins, Morse, Milano and Taron are all going to age out most likely.     They started this ball rolling when they traded the chance at a 21-22 year old rookie WR to get Stefon Diggs.  It accelerated their development but sure.......that comes at a cost.   You aren't going to get 10 years out of a 26-27 year old acquisition.  

 

If they draft smartly and do what it takes to make Josh Allen look like a $50M QB year-in-and-out.........which is easier to pull off when he has a Lombardi trophy to his name...........then they will have access to very good replacement personnel at team friendly prices.

 

From one professional number guy to another, I'd agree overall:

1. 1 year in the future, likely the Groot or Elam draft class, we will be heavily hampered cap-wise.  This will almost certainly lead to us being unable to sign 1 or 2 of the following long term: Groot, Elam, Cook, or Spencer Brown.

 

2. Likely sacrifices our competitive balance for 1-2 years total.  Not a horrible team, but not going to be top 3 in the AFC, unless Beane crushes the draft these years. Josh Allen and a few others, while trying to find 1-3 new core players via draft

 

3. Short term, Davis and Ed gone after this year.  Which might happen regardless, depends how you view this loss (both are polarizing to fans).  Beane has stated his thoughts on both guys, unprovoked by questions on either player, when discussing teams longer term plans

 

This is what reality will be, and boils down to whether Beane thinks Dhop is worth that. 

 

Alternatively, we have more flexibility with signing our own guys.  Who at this point, there isn't a "sure fire" we MUST resign guy, out of all the players mentioned above. 

 

But, it comes with the ability to do so if someone makes a big improvement and/or gives flexibility to add another piece (ie Dhop at a different position next season).  

 

I won't speak for all posters who have cap concerns with signing Dhop.  But that's how I view it, and analyze the pros/cons of the teams immediate and future competitive balance.

[Chaos]

9 hours ago, NewEra said:

Not for me. My family being comfortable is the most important thing in my life.  I turn down more lucrative jobs on the reg.  Probably 2-3 jobs a year on average.  
 

 

Ah, so you are the USA. 

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What do YOU actually envision the long term cap consequences being if they sign Hopkins?    

 

As a professional numbers person myself..........I'm quite certain the the consequence may be just one very silent offseason where they lose a good young player in UFA and have to cut some veteran defenders they'd prefer not to..........followed by a year with a bottom third of the league defense and the Bills offense having to win a lot of shootouts.........and then the following offseason being back in the market for free agents and balancing the roster again.

 

There isn't going to be any big roster teardown that isn't going to have to come ANYWAY.    In the next few years Von, Diggs, Hyde, Poyer, White, Dawkins, Morse, Milano and Taron are all going to age out most likely.     They started this ball rolling when they traded the chance at a 21-22 year old rookie WR to get Stefon Diggs.  It accelerated their development but sure.......that comes at a cost.   You aren't going to get 10 years out of a 26-27 year old acquisition.  

 

If they draft smartly and do what it takes to make Josh Allen look like a $50M QB year-in-and-out.........which is easier to pull off when he has a Lombardi trophy to his name...........then they will have access to very good replacement personnel at team friendly prices.

 

I agree with this reinforcements for the defense are going to have to come through the draft. We are going to need guys like say Dorian Williams to hit.

[NewEra]

23 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Ah, so you are the USA. 

And Josh allen never running is the right answer

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

 

If they draft smartly and do what it takes to make Josh Allen look like a $50M QB year-in-and-out.........which is easier to pull off when he has a Lombardi trophy to his name...........then they will have access to very good replacement personnel at team friendly prices.

 

Can you name one team that shows this theory to be true?  
 

The Rams and Bucs are done with Super Bowls for a while.  Unless I’m missing something that leaves the Chiefs and I’m not sure they have used this formula so far.  Which big name “superstar” have they signed and which team friendly deals have magically poured in?  They have lost a few players as well.  At this point it doesn’t appear Hopkins is willing to be team friendly to either the Bills or Chiefs.

 

The Bills are a team that paid big money to a superstar just last year and it did not pay off.  It is hard to quantify what the opportunity cost has been or will be.  

[JaCrispy]

29 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

From one professional number guy to another, I'd agree overall:

1. 1 year in the future, likely the Groot or Elam draft class, we will be heavily hampered cap-wise.  This will almost certainly lead to us being unable to sign 1 or 2 of the following long term: Groot, Elam, Cook, or Spencer Brown.

 

2. Likely sacrifices our competitive balance for 1-2 years total.  Not a horrible team, but not going to be top 3 in the AFC, unless Beane crushes the draft these years. Josh Allen and a few others, while trying to find 1-3 new core players via draft

 

3. Short term, Davis and Ed gone after this year.  Which might happen regardless, depends how you view this loss (both are polarizing to fans).  Beane has stated his thoughts on both guys, unprovoked by questions on either player, when discussing teams longer term plans

 

This is what reality will be, and boils down to whether Beane thinks Dhop is worth that. 

 

Alternatively, we have more flexibility with signing our own guys.  Who at this point, there isn't a "sure fire" we MUST resign guy, out of all the players mentioned above. 

 

But, it comes with the ability to do so if someone makes a big improvement and/or gives flexibility to add another piece (ie Dhop at a different position next season).  

 

I won't speak for all posters who have cap concerns with signing Dhop.  But that's how I view it, and analyze the pros/cons of the teams immediate and future competitive balance.

I go back to a wise saying- “A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush”.

 

Basically, if you have a shot at a top player, during a time that you are a superbowl contender, you take it…👍

[TheWeatherMan]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

Not for me. My family being comfortable is the most important thing in my life.  I turn down more lucrative jobs on the reg.  Probably 2-3 jobs a year on average.  
 

 

Same here, and I’m not a fan of high level business meetings.  

[78thealltimegreat]

13 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

No. Fraud. He just clipped it from an old tweet. “Kyle’s Treats” is a Clown

 

 

How about Espns other NFL reporter then 

 

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

How about Espns other NFL reporter then 

 

How many times do these dudes need to make up crap before people realize they make up crap.

 

After Hopkins takes the three extra dollars the Bears or whoever offer, if some other guy becomes available ESPN will clickbait the Bills/Chiefs arms race again.

[UKBillFan]

My issue isn't necessarily getting Hopkins; it's that the Bills still lack a 1B or number 2 option at wide receiver. Yes, maybe someone could come through, but having an experience body who can draw attention away from Diggs and give Josh another option will go along way, unless Dorsey can get Josh to use the TEs effectively.

[78thealltimegreat]

36 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

How many times do these dudes need to make up crap before people realize they make up crap.

 

After Hopkins takes the three extra dollars the Bears or whoever offer, if some other guy becomes available ESPN will clickbait the Bills/Chiefs arms race again.

Setting yourself up for disappointment huh 

[SCBills]

I’m fully prepared to not get Hop, and if we don’t, whatever… but isn’t Jeremy Fowler one of the few people on ESPN that’s not just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks?

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Diggs for Jefferson was also probably the right call, even in hindsight. At that point of time, the Bills needed experience at WR

 

Come on, that’s just ridiculous.

 

Jefferson was elite even in his rookie season, and he will likely be good for another 4-5 years after Diggs is out of the NFL (he is 5 years younger).

It’s not like Diggs taught Allen to be a QB. He simply gave Allen a legit WR for the first time in his career and came during a pivotal year 3. Jefferson would have done the same in my opinion.

[4merper4mer]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Come on, that’s just ridiculous.

 

Jefferson was elite even in his rookie season, and he will likely be good for another 4-5 years after Diggs is out of the NFL (he is 5 years younger).

It’s not like Diggs taught Allen to be a QB. He simply gave Allen a legit WR for the first time in his career and came during a pivotal year 3. Jefferson would have done the same in my opinion.

You’re being a jerk on purpose.  Ruggs Jeudy Lamb and Reagor all went before Jefferson and Aiyuk went right after,  That’s quite a spectrum of results and you’ve cherry picked quite by assuming Jefferson was some sort of given that was universally understood.