Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[Gregg]

9 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

The 2nd half of Green Bay was instructive to Salah. That laid the blueprint for the Jets game, and ultimately Allen's elbow. I tend to believe that they would have come through all of that better had Daboll still been the OC. It's also a strong likelihood that our offensive line was ill-equipped to cope with the kind of aggressive techniques needed to be a heavier run offense. 

 

Didn't Allen hurt his arm in the first Jets game at MetLife before they played GB.

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:27 PM, Einstein said:

 

They had one of the best drafts in recent memory (for ANY team) last season. Their first pick is already an All-Pro. Their second pick was great even with Zach Wilson and I believe will be an All-Pro by next year. Their 3rd pick was better at DE in his first season that Rousseou was in his second season, and had a top PFF ranking.  Their 4th pick was a top 10 player at his position before he got hurt last season. 

They just NAILED that draft.

As I wrote, they MAY have had a good draft. wait for three years to see if they can maintain.  Vince Young was offensive rookie of the year and all pro then was out of the league in a few years, we will see how wonderful their draft was in a few years.  I for one think Sauce Gardner was wildly overrated.

[Virgil]

Not going to happen.  We didn’t reach 300 pages in the other thread, that is now closed.  
 

 

[Bills!Win!]

What are the chances we get Dustin Hopkins ?

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

To be clear, i’m not saying losing Von didn’t hurt.

 

I’m just acknowledging that we were spiraling (and showing huge empty spots in our armor), before he went down.

We’re we the first 13-3 team that ever “spiraled”?

[Warriorspikes51]

Beane! it's a beautiful day in Buffalo to be a Big Baller 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I think he's a low end 2. I know you and Shaw and various others judge differently. At best, he is adequate and I don't think he's consistent enough to merit that ascription. He would thrive as a third option who catches the long ball.

I think he's a tad higher than low end. One of the biggest issues with his play last year is that a lot of his routes were ones that take time to develop. When you couple that with immediate pressure up the middle on many of Allen's passes last year it causes him to have to break that off and it becomes a bit of "backyard ball"...just get open and be ready. That isn't Davis's strong suit. He plays very well when things go to plan. When Allen has protection and Davis can get through his whole route he usually does very well. This is why I had issue with Dorsey not adjusting the offense a bit to a quicker fast attacking short to mid route gameplan. 

 

With the Bills focusing on shoring up that IOL this year with McGovern, who is very strong at pass blocking, Edwards and Torrence I expect Davis to be able to run those deeper routes that Dorsey likes to run. 

 

[Stretch]

I feel like we are due for some Pegula Jet tracking pretty soon.

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

836 yards. 7 TDs. 15 games. Those are solid #2 numbers. Does need to be more consistent. Does need to haul in more passes thrown his way. But I can cherry pick a stat or 2 as well. 

 

I usually don't like cherry picked stats but to me, it's absolutely a concern if only 1 out of 2 balls are hauled in. 

His career is at 54% and averages about 40 catches a season after 3 years.  Those aren't solid #2 numbers.

 

He doesn't offer anything after the catch and has big drops.

 

He offers something great...downfield big plays.  Let him get those few big chunk plays. 

But not someone you can count on on an every game basis.

He had 9 games with 3 catches or less last year.

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 5/26/2023 at 9:59 PM, 1ManRaid said:

 

So what you're saying is that DHop is a cancer who destroyed both the Texans and Cardinals.  Go ahead, sign with the Jets then lol.

DHop was not a cancer at all in Houston, the cancer was in Bill O Brien as GM and Jack Easterby.  I have no idea what his issue is with Arizona besides it is a dysfunctional organization with a terrible roster,

[Warriorspikes51]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I usually don't like cherry picked stats but to me, it's absolutely a concern if only 1 out of 2 balls are hauled in. 

His career is at 54% and averages about 40 catches a season after 3 years.  Those aren't solid #2 numbers.

 

He doesn't offer anything after the catch and has big drops.

 

He offers something great...downfield big plays.  Let him get those few big chunk plays. 

But not someone you can count on on an every game basis.

He had 9 games with 3 catches or less last year.

 

I want to like Gabe Davis, sometimes I do. He's been on the field all the time, blocking as well.

But, his ankles get injured every season and he always seems to be hobbling around on routes.  His hands got worse last season

[1ManRaid]

5 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

DHop was not a cancer at all in Houston, the cancer was in Bill O Brien as GM and Jack Easterby.  I have no idea what his issue is with Arizona besides it is a dysfunctional organization with a terrible roster,

 

For the record, it was a joke.

[Warriorspikes51]

2 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

That was the single best game Dorsey called all year. Singletary had his highest amount of carries all season.

 

Where did that Offensive Coordinator go the rest of the season when it mattered more

 

oh and Singletary is a Texan now.   gee I wonder why

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because we got both Damien Harris and Latavius Murray (who are both better than Devin)  for less $ than what the Houston Texans gave him

[Warriorspikes51]

Not that it's at all likely to happen, but if the Bills were to trade Ed Oliver, it would be before June 1st.  All of his 10.8 million would come off our books 

[GoBills808]

47 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

836 yards. 7 TDs. 15 games. Those are solid #2 numbers. Does need to be more consistent. Does need to haul in more passes thrown his way. But I can cherry pick a stat or 2 as well. 

It has to be at least a little concerning that over 20% of that production came in one game

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

One of the biggest issues with his play last year is that a lot of his routes were ones that take time to develop.

 

You don't think it's a problem that our supposedly #2 WR can only run long developing routes?

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

55 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

This is a great example of where stats can be very misleading.  The Bills have had a very good & consistent regular season defense that mostly padded its stats at the expense of bad QB's and weak offenses. In contrast the Defense has mostly struggled against good offenses in the regular season and particularly in the playoffs. 

 

I'm pretty sure that's how it works with defenses.  They perform better against the bad offenses than they do against the good ones. Why would this be a reason to discount the defensive stats?

[Alphadawg7]

21 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think he's a tad higher than low end. One of the biggest issues with his play last year is that a lot of his routes were ones that take time to develop. When you couple that with immediate pressure up the middle on many of Allen's passes last year it causes him to have to break that off and it becomes a bit of "backyard ball"...just get open and be ready. That isn't Davis's strong suit. He plays very well when things go to plan. When Allen has protection and Davis can get through his whole route he usually does very well. This is why I had issue with Dorsey not adjusting the offense a bit to a quicker fast attacking short to mid route gameplan. 

 

With the Bills focusing on shoring up that IOL this year with McGovern, who is very strong at pass blocking, Edwards and Torrence I expect Davis to be able to run those deeper routes that Dorsey likes to run. 

 

 

Gabe Davis, playing in one of the 2 most prolific offenses in the NFL over his 3 year career only has 3 total 100 yard career games (1 each year).  In 7 playoff games, he has just 2 big games.  The issue is he is more myth than fact.  He got the "Big Game" moniker to go with his name because of the KC playoff game essentially.  But the reality is "Big Game Davis" is more like 1 big game a year, a couple solid games, several games where he made game hurting mistakes, and a whole lot of games where you don't remember if he even played.  

 

I was really high on Davis last offseason, thought he was entering the season ready to break out, especially with the heavy attention Diggs get.  But, not only did he struggle to catch the ball, but he struggled with concentration, confidence, separation, etc.  

 

I like Gabe and would love to see a bounce back, but I have started asking myself what am I expecting him to bounce back to?  His drops are a career long issue.  His limited route tree is a career long issue.  His lack of consistent separation is a career long issue.  I am not sure it is realistic to expect much more than last year because not only was it his best statistical year, all the negative aspects of his game were not exactly anomalies and on par with is 3 year career.  And that makes me think that it is more "what we see is what we get" with him and he is just a lower tier WR2 who is better suited to be a very good WR3.  

 

I will continue to root for him, I like him, I am just now at a point where I find myself less optimistic than in the past and more concerned about his reliability.  

 

PS:  All that being said, I don't feel we "must" sign Hopkins because this team is reloaded on new weapons and feel like Allen no longer has to be so heavy dependent on Diggs and Davis.  However, I still would love to sign Hopkins as he would be a significant upgrade to Davis and make this offense almost certainly the #1 offense this year.  

[SectionC3]

11 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Not that it's at all likely to happen, but if the Bills were to trade Ed Oliver, it would be before June 1st.  All of his 10.8 million would come off our books 

I had this thought yesterday.  I’m

not advocating for it.  But if they want to get beefier and free up some money … it’s not the worst outcome.  
 

They probably have an extra DT hanging around now, anyway, and they gave guaranteed money to Settle, so there’s a good chance he sticks.  And he’s probably the worst of the top 5.  So maybe you’re on to something. 

[MasterStrategist]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You don't think it's a problem that our supposedly #2 WR can only run long developing routes?

Couple comments here:

1. agree he isn't Dhop, but Gabe can run the underneath routes.  Josh himself said the offense should be incorporating more throws to him underneath.  This is a chicken/egg argument, because Dorsey hardly used him in that role (is that bc he "can't do it" like you said, OR bc he's our best deep ball threat and it clears out more for other guys?)

 

2.  Even if Gabe is used primarily as a deep ball threat, who cares.  This offense has been top 5 for multiple seasons.  Our offense isn't the reason we've lost jn the playoffs.  Cincy game, yes, offense was bad and so was defense.

 

Bottom line, is it's been overdue to address the OL and slot position; which is where I agree we needed to get better (underneath/reliable targets middle of field).  Beane addressed this already.  It's time for Dorsey to scheme around his multiple weapons, and more importantly the defense to step up come playoffs.  Defense has let us down against KC 2x, Cincy, & almost Indy.

[ndirish1978]

Unpopular opinion: I'd rather sign Justin Houston than DHop.

 

I'd like them both, but I think our pass rush will be a bigger issue this season than our offense. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by ndirish1978

[Warriorspikes51]

10 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

No way. Murray is washed up, a depth piece, he may not make the 53 man roster

 

Harris is a plodding back, very different than Singletary and not nearly as good

 

So the question is, which one of these statements applies to your comments

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him."
 

"Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

 

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

No way. Murray is washed up, a depth piece, he may not make the 53 man roster

 

Harris is a plodding back, very different than Singletary and not nearly as good

Do you get ever tired of being wrong?

[Solomon Grundy]

35 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Not that it's at all likely to happen, but if the Bills were to trade Ed Oliver, it would be before June 1st.  All of his 10.8 million would come off our books 

⏰😎

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

overwhelmed a lot of the opponents yes. The Bears and the Browns of world couldn't keep up with the talent.

 

But when met with opponents of similar talent Dorsey was routinely outcoached and downright embarrassed at home in the snow against Cincy.

 

just keepin it real cause your WGR & your Buffalo News aint gonna tell that story cause they are under Pegula's thumb. What I dont get is why posters here dont want to keep it real and accept any criticism

 

 

 

 

So WGR and the Buffalo News are under Pegula's thumb are they?  Provide any examples or just venting?  What other conspiracy theories do you hold so dear?

[John from Riverside]

Just now, SUNY_amherst said:

the next time they produce something critical of the Pegulas will be the first

What exactly do you want them to be critical of the pegulas about

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What exactly do you want them to be critical of the pegulas about

Not building a dome. That’s his #1 gripe.

 

If we had a dome we wouldn’t played against Cleveland despite the travel ban. 
 

Disregard the Sabres having to move their game against Columbus because of a travel ban. A domed Arena is different than a domed stadium. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by JGMcD2

[Bobby Hooks]

6 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

the next time they produce something critical of the Pegulas will be the first

You’re right, they should be absolutely steaming that the Pegula’s have exhausted every avenue (coaches, players, cash, upgrades to the current stadium, new stadium) to bring us a Championship. 

 

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What exactly do you want them to be critical of the pegulas about

Good question. 

3 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

well the Sabres are a dumpster fire, somehow ownership is never blamed. The Bills you just simply aren’t able to criticize the organization for anything, ownership on down

What does the Sabres situation (that looks outstanding right now) have to do with anything? 
 

also, you didn’t answer his question. What specifically should they be criticized for? 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[Starr Almighty]

38 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

No way. Murray is washed up, a depth piece, he may not make the 53 man roster

 

Harris is a plodding back, very different than Singletary and not nearly as good

Wow this is bad

 

177 819 4.6 5 vs.160 703 4.4 5

 

Ploddings best vs Devin's best 

202 929 4.6 15 vs. 188 870 4.6 7

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Starr Almighty

[Warriorspikes51]

6 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

well the Sabres are a dumpster fire, somehow ownership is never blamed. The Bills you just simply aren’t able to criticize the organization for anything, ownership on down

 

[Franco_92]

Stats are not the thing to look at with Davis. He has a good QB, so his counting stats could over represent his ability. His depth of target is insanely high so his drops and catch percentage could under represent his ability. 

 

The problem with Davis is he runs like 3 routes well, and all of them take time to develop. He is bad at running other routes and in general is not quick so is rarely a good option when Josh is pressured. These things are typical for WR3, and he's very good in that role. When these are the characteristics of your WR2 in an offense that doesn't like to throw to TEs, you get the inconsistencies and frustrations we saw at times last year. 

9 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

the Sabres are not “outstanding.” In fact they have the longest playoff drought in American sports. On planet earth that is not usually seen as outstanding 

He said the Sabres' situation is outstanding, not the team. The team is merely good, and young, and locked up to great contracts, and scored the 3rd most goals in the league with a stud goalie incoming. 

 

You disingenuously represented his comment. He is correct that the Sabres are positioned as well as an up and coming team can be. They have to take that step, and you can't deny their 12 years of futility, but any honest measurement of the current team has to conclude that the window of despair is closed barring catastrophe to a degree unreasonable to expect. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by arcane

[HappyDays]

47 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

agree he isn't Dhop, but Gabe can run the underneath routes.  Josh himself said the offense should be incorporating more throws to him underneath.  This is a chicken/egg argument, because Dorsey hardly used him in that role (is that bc he "can't do it" like you said, OR bc he's our best deep ball threat and it clears out more for other guys?)

 

It's because he can't do it. His skill set doesn't lend itself well to routes that require short area quickness. He releases well and can run vertical. That's a great skill set for a #3 outside WR. For a #2 it limits what the offense can do.

 

Do you really think two OCs in a row now haven't had Davis run those shorter routes for no reason?

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by HappyDays

[MasterStrategist]

38 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Unpopular opinion: I'd rather sign Justin Houston than DHop.

 

I'd like them both, but I think our pass rush will be a bigger issue this season than our offense. 

I'd be on board with this.  My guess is he either wants too much $$$, and/or Beane trying to figure who the odd man out is: Boogie or Aje.  Pretty certain they were interested in upgrading, then settled for Shaq and cheap fliers (Ray).  Maybe interest is still there, perhaps waiting for Dhop scenario to shake out?

 

This season is going to rest on the trench players actually performing, regardless of Dhop.  I'm hopeful for both, but alot riding on Spencer stepping it up and Vons ability once he's back.  JMO...

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

We’re we the first 13-3 team that ever “spiraled”?

 

I guess nuance is not your forte.

[Warriorspikes51]

 

Interesting tidbit in that video is Fowler states Hopkins is representing himself

 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Interesting tidbit in that video is Fowler states Hopkins is representing himself

 

That is interesting...I thought he had an agent

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

It has to be at least a little concerning that over 20% of that production came in one game

I do and have said many times that consistency is an issue. I also feel like Dorsey is partly to blame for the inconsistency as he really didn't seem to adjust much to get Davis going in many instances.

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

You don't think it's a problem that our supposedly #2 WR can only run long developing routes?

I find it more of a problem that the offensive coordinator calls long developing routes knowing that pass protection was an issue last year. I know some have speculated that Allen's elbow injury caused the Bills to have to throw longer routes but who knows.

[Warriorspikes51]

An ESPN Radio  personality @EShunESPN claims Hopkins is close to an agreement with the Patriots.  The guy does have 13k followers and is a former Colts WR Coach

 

Hopefully that's a false report 

[MasterStrategist]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's because he can't do it. His skill set doesn't lend itself well to routes that require short area quickness. He releases well and can run vertical. That's a great skill for a #3 outside WR. For a #2 it limits what the offense can do.

 

Do you really think two OCs in a row now haven't had Davis run those shorter routes for no reason?

I know where you're coming from, it's not his best trait...but I wouldn't say he can't do it.  It's more in breaking slants and digs, that he could be used more often.

 

I'd agree Gabe isn't a 1b, or even a traditional 2.  But where our opinions differ, is if that matters.

 

Jmo, our offense has plenty of dangerous weapons. We have 1 guy in Diggs that can do it all, and then a complimentary group.  OL needs to protect better.  Knox doesn't get used near enough, mostly bc he's used as an extra blocker/outlet receiver.  I'm hopeful about Kincaid, Shakir, and Harty.  and an improved running game.  I think that's enough, but it's on Dorsey to scheme it up and OL to play to their potential

[JDubya76]

3 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

just keepin it real cause your WGR & your Buffalo News aint gonna tell that story cause they are under Pegula's thumb. What I dont get is why posters here dont want to keep it real and accept any criticism