Florio raises an excellent question:

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think that's the point tho

 

For those interested here's the breakdown: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills

 

imo it is totally fair to question whether this is a responsible use of the cap re: investing in your offense

 

Seems a pretty even distribution between Offense and Defense at the top of spending. I left out Knox, but he is right up there in the list as well. Up to our OC and Josh to use him tho.

 

I dont disagree that I would like to see the FO focus a bit on Offense around Josh, but I dont think it is to the point that Josh should be upset or questioning anything.

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think that's the point tho

 

For those interested here's the breakdown: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills

 

imo it is totally fair to question whether this is a responsible use of the cap re: investing in your offense

A terrible point.

 

Josh Allen, Diggs, Dawkins and Morse are 4 of our top 5 cap hits in 2023. 
 

Anyone entertaining Florio saying some dumb ***** is also wrong.

[Logic]

So Josh Allen should be upset about the Bills:

- Paying his number 1 receiver top tier money to stick around
- Paying his TE1 good money
- Naming his preferred choice of Ken Dorsey as the new OC -- probably largely BECAUSE it was his preferred choice

- Having his left tackle and center locked up for a couple more seasons

- Drafting a speedy running back in round two and then trading for another one mid-season last year

- Fielding a top five scoring offense in three straight seasons
- Signing future Hall of Famer Von Miller to a mega-bucks deal as a final touch to a Super Bowl worthy roster

- Coming off four straight double digit win seasons and playoff performances
- Spending right up to the cap every single year 




 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Logic

[Thrivefourfive]

I don’t think we’re seeing how loaded the Bills are. Money has been spent to bring the baseline of talent to a pretty high level across the field, on all three sides of the football. 
 

Sims complained that paying good players is the same as having average players. I mean, huhhh..?? I listen to the show, and they say many silly things. They need to fill the time, and Florio especially, gets on a tangent and can’t shut up, and that leads him down some semi bizarre conversation with himself about this and that. 

[GunnerBill]

The other issue is we are paying top money to a corner who was a shadow of himself last year after tearing his knee the year before and top money to an edge rusher who tore his knee last year. Them's the breaks as a useless Prime Minister once said. 

 

I think they have made some questionable allocation decisions. I said at the time that other than Von I thought their free agency last year was poorly thought out. $6m on a terrible over the hill guard, a tight end who didn't even make week 1 and three decent sized defensive tackle contracts. Part talent evaluation error, part cap allocation error. But error all the same. 

 

This year they had limited room to manouvre and have tried to rectify some of their mistakes. They might go offense in the early part of the draft too but I caution against expecting this draft to be one that throws up too many long term answers. 

 

They need a bit better luck and they need at least one of their FA guards and one of their FA receivers to pan out. 

 

And they need Dorsey and Josh to figure out how they use Dawson Knox. Because he can be a much bigger piece for us. On that score it is on OC and QB to use whst they have. 

[SCBills]

42 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I mean, even the Chiefs fan knows why this is a dumb question. Cmon, Florio/OP.

 

It's framed in a dumb way, but the question is valid.  

 

Chiefs and Bengals have been hyper focused on making sure their QB has a top tier OL.  Bills, clearly not.  

 

We'll see what happens with the draft, but the Bills are starting to get the "FO doesn't give their QB enough help" narrative ... and it's warranted as of today. 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

Florio is notoriously anti-Bills.  Anything he says about the team should be taken with a grain of salt, or better yet, ignored completely.  

[strive_for_five_guy]

Hey Florio, go get on Spotrac and you’ll have your answer.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Seems a pretty even distribution between Offense and Defense at the top of spending. I left out Knox, but he is right up there in the list as well. Up to our OC and Josh to use him tho.

 

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

A terrible point.

 

Josh Allen, Diggs, Dawkins and Morse are 4 of our top 5 cap hits in 2023. 
 

Anyone entertaining Florio saying some dumb ***** is also wrong.

Mahomes has like a $40M cap hit this coming year and they are still going to roll out a better offensive line and similar quality skill players

 

I don't know whether it's a drafting thing or finding value in FA or what but I think his point stands

[UConn James]

48 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The Bills strategy is keep the team that has won 13, 11 and 13 games in the 2020-2022 regular season as intact as possible.

 

But in the playoffs…. When nothing changes, then nothing changes.

[Success]

2 minutes ago, UConn James said:

But in the playoffs…. When nothing changes, then nothing changes.

 

I'd disagree. Circumstances are different every year.

 

We weren't the team in January that we were in September.  We need to stay just a bit healthier, and hopefully not have as much drama as we had late in the season in '22.  We can beat anyone w/ the current team, whether regular season or playoffs.

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Mahomes has like a $40M cap hit this coming year and they are still going to roll out a better offensive line and similar quality skill players

 

I don't know whether it's a drafting thing or finding value in FA or what but I think his point stands

They drafted better players.  They also signed better players.

 

The problem is not their allocation of resources as a strategy.  It's who they are allocating the resources IN.

 

Big time FA's signed last season:

 

OJ Howard - bum, cut in camp

Von Miller - great player, tore ACL midway through season

Roger Saffold - bum, worst G in the NFL

Jamison Crowder - solid, but hurt early and never returned

Daquan Jones - good pickup, but hurt towards the end and missed the Bengals game

 

Come playoffs, we had all FIVE of our larger FA acquisitions not on the field for one reason or another.  Part of that is signing sucky players (Saffold/OJ) or just plain old bad injury luck.  If we have 2 or 3 or 4 of those guys go the distance, do you think the season is different?  I do.

 

Ya'll keep talking about Mahomes like they didn't trade away a top 5 WR last year and get absolutely unquestionably WORSE as a WR group. 

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The other issue is we are paying top money to a corner who was a shadow of himself last year after tearing his knee the year before and top money to an edge rusher who tore his knee last year. Them's the breaks as a useless Prime Minister once said. 

 

I think they have made some questionable allocation decisions. I said at the time that other than Von I thought their free agency last year was poorly thought out. $6m on a terrible over the hill guard, a tight end who didn't even make week 1 and three decent sized defensive tackle contracts. Part talent evaluation error, part cap allocation error. But error all the same. 

 

This year they had limited room to manouvre and have tried to rectify some of their mistakes. They might go offense in the early part of the draft too but I caution against expecting this draft to be one that throws up too many long term answers. 

 

They need a bit better luck and they need at least one of their FA guards and one of their FA receivers to pan out. 

 

And they need Dorsey and Josh to figure out how they use Dawson Knox. Because he can be a much bigger piece for us. On that score it is on OC and QB to use whst they have. 

Agreed with all of this, but especially the bolded.  They don't need to be super lucky, but they definitely need better luck.  Tre being the #2 cap hit and being a liability, their sad list of FAs from last year who weren't available or didn't work out is a recipe for a team that takes a step back.

Edited April 18, 2023 by FireChans

[HappyDays]

They talked more about this idea yesterday too:

 

 

To summarize - they say that the Bills are so concerned with being at least average at every position, they've missed out on being really great at a couple positions other than QB. Specifically at WR Florio thinks we have been stubborn and that everyone other than Buffalo knows we need more there. Simms makes the case that we should do what the Chiefs did, go all in on offensive infrastructure and just have a couple pieces on defense that can make some plays.

[Warriorspikes51]

Florio intentionally gaslights Bills fans ANYTIME the team is even remotely discussed by him 

[ALF]

28 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I doubt he’s penciled in. They don’t operate that way. Not even Gabe Davis was penciled in his 2nd season and he made a lot more plays as a rookie.

 

FWIW    https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/BUF

[FireChans]

Just now, HappyDays said:

They talked more about this idea yesterday too:

 

 

To summarize - they say that the Bills are so concerned with being at least average at every position, they've missed out on being really great at a couple positions other than QB. Specifically at WR Florio thinks we have been stubborn and that everyone other than Buffalo knows we need more there. Simms makes the case that we should do what the Chiefs did, go all in on offensive infrastructure and just have a couple pieces on defense that can make some plays.

Simms is wrong. That's not what the Chiefs did.  At all.

 

Trading away a top 5 WR and taking a DE and a CB in the first is not going all in on offensive infrastructure.

 

They got lucky and found diamonds in the rough for the OL in the later parts of the draft.

[GoBills808]

Just now, FireChans said:

They drafted better players.  They also signed better players.

 

The problem is not their allocation of resources as a strategy.  It's who they are allocating the resources IN.

 

Big time FA's signed last season:

 

OJ Howard - bum, cut in camp

Von Miller - great player, tore ACL midway through season

Roger Saffold - bum, worst G in the NFL

Jamison Crowder - solid, but hurt early and never returned

Daquan Jones - good pickup, but hurt towards the end and missed the Bengals game

 

Come playoffs, we had all FIVE of our larger FA acquisitions not on the field for one reason or another.  Part of that is signing sucky players (Saffold/OJ) or just plain old bad injury luck.  If we have 2 or 3 or 4 of those guys go the distance, do you think the season is different?  I do.

I think it's hard to differentiate there.

 

And Crowder being solid...meh. Chiefs got Smith-Schuster for 3.7M cap space while Bills got Crowder for 1.975M. Obviously Crowder got injured but one is the clearly superior player and they got the value there on offense that the Bills just didn't.

[Thrivefourfive]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Mahomes has like a $40M cap hit this coming year and they are still going to roll out a better offensive line and similar quality skill players

 

I don't know whether it's a drafting thing or finding value in FA or what but I think his point stands

The Chiefs have drafted better, I guess, but Mahomes and Kelce’s superior talent is their biggest plug for “lineup holes”. 

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

It's framed in a dumb way, but the question is valid.  

 

Chiefs and Bengals have been hyper focused on making sure their QB has a top tier OL.  Bills, clearly not.  

 

We'll see what happens with the draft, but the Bills are starting to get the "FO doesn't give their QB enough help" narrative ... and it's warranted as of today. 

 

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Mahomes has like a $40M cap hit this coming year and they are still going to roll out a better offensive line and similar quality skill players

 

I don't know whether it's a drafting thing or finding value in FA or what but I think his point stands

 

The Bengals OL stinks and has stunk for 3 seasons. The first of which was so bad, they got Joe B's leg broken. And their solution to that was to bring in... Quinton Spain (Bills' trash).

 

The LT they just brought in from the Chiefs is rated about on par with Dawkins, who the Bills drafted and kept with a 2nd contract.

 

The Chiefs fans were complaining about their OL the last 2 seasons as well. Jawaan Taylor has not played any better than Dawkins during his time on the Jags. We'll see how he does in KC.

 

Heck, we brought in Mitch Morris from the Chiefs. It's all a big incestuous circle of NO ONE being happy with their OL. It isnt just a Bills thing.

 

I think the only move either of those teams got over on us was the drafting of Basham over Creed Humphrey and allowing him to go to the Chiefs.

 

I havent seen all their moves, but I'm not sure either the Bengals or Chiefs addressed their IOL like we did this Free Agency with McGovern and Edwards.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think it's hard to differentiate there.

 

And Crowder being solid...meh. Chiefs got Smith-Schuster for 3.7M cap space while Bills got Crowder for 1.975M. Obviously Crowder got injured but one is the clearly superior player and they got the value there on offense that the Bills just didn't.

And if JuJu broke his ankle week 4, they wouldn't have gotten any value either lol.

 

You said hard to differentiate, I say it's the difference between trying and in many cases failing to get Josh more help and weapons versus not really trying at all.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Josh only needs to worry about not throwing so many interceptions.  He was careless with the ball all year. He needs to start throwing to the wide open underneath guys. 

The oline needs to play better.  They most likely upgraded LG pass protection.  RT is still a question mark.

They need to plan for Davis leaving next year.

Yes they need to invest on offense but that will be done with the draft.

 

Now if they go MLB, Edge, Safety, DT with top 4 picks then maybe he should complain.

 

 

[BananaB]

He’s not wrong at all. Beane drafted heavy on D and spent heavy on D for the past few years and we get knocked out every year in the same fashion. The guys drafted hardly see the ***** field so they ain’t really contributing on D at all. Maybe it’s McDs fault that he loves his vets over his rookies. When he took over the team he had to use those young guys and they become the backbone of our team. Now every new addition is on a 3 year nursing plan…. Josh asked for Beas and Brown back so I really don’t believe he’s as happy with the supporting cast as he tells the media. Might love them as a person and the effort they put in, but not the results on Sunday. He just said he’d like to see more of the old concepts that everyone knows, you could take that as a shot at Dorsey or a shot at the guys not picking up the playbook. There was alot of discussions on this board about some INTs, was it Josh or the WR? Since Diggs they have done nothing to help him out but continue to make mistakes filling holes on McDs D. 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Trading away a top 5 WR and taking a DE and a CB in the first is not going all in on offensive infrastructure.

 

They got lucky and found diamonds in the rough for the OL in the later parts of the draft.

 

They spent an entire offseasom upgrading the OL after getting blown out in the Super Bowl. Traded for Orlando Brown, signed Joe Thuney to a massive deal, drafted Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round. Agreed they got lucky getting Trey Smith in the 6th round because of a medical flag, but the rest was not luck; it was a specific and intentional improvement strategy.

 

I don't need us to replicate the Chiefs strategy exactly. But I've said before most Super Bowl champions have either an elite OL or an elite group of weapons. The Bills currently have neither. To me that's where the gap still exists between us and the other Super Bowl contenders.

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by HappyDays

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

And if JuJu broke his ankle week 4, they wouldn't have gotten any value either lol.

 

You said hard to differentiate, I say it's the difference between trying and in many cases failing to get Josh more help and weapons versus not really trying at all.

I mean JJSS is a legit talent, Crowder is the guy you bring in to fill a spot.

 

As to the bolded I still say it's the same thing.

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Josh only needs to worry about not throwing so many interceptions.  He was careless with the ball all year. He needs to start throwing to the wide open underneath guys.

He threw .87 interceptions per game in 2022 and .88 interceptions per game in 2021

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

They spent an entire offseasom upgrading the OL after getting blown out in the Super Bowl. Traded for Orlando Brown, signed Joe Thuney to a massive deal, drafted Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round. Agreed they got lucky getting Trey Smith in the 6th round because of a medical flag, but the rest was not luck; it was a specific and intentional improvement strategy.

 

I don't need us to replicate the Chiefs strategy exactly. But I've said before most Super Bowl champions have either an elite OL or an elite group of weapons. The Bills currently have neither. To me that's where the gap still exists between us and the other Super Bowl contenders.

 

We drafted Cody Ford in the second round. Was him being a garbage player and Creed Humphrey being good not luck? What about Spencer Brown, who was drafted higher than Trey Smith?

 

If Spencer Brown and Cody Ford are as good as Trey Smith and Creed Humphrey, are we still having this conversation?

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I mean JJSS is a legit talent, Crowder is the guy you bring in to fill a spot.

 

As to the bolded I still say it's the same thing.

Well agree to disagree. I believe the Bills have tried to get Josh more help, and have gotten a combination of unlucky and pulled the trigger on the wrong guys to adequately do so.

[In Summary]

26 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

We basically save money on Josh then, Diggs aside, spend it on defense.

...and thereby reinforcing the practice such that a meaningful change to a more O-line dominant offense becomes psychologically difficult.  Fans accept this because Josh makes exciting improvisational out-of-structure plays rather than boring and incremental in-structure plays that have worked for Brady and Mahomes.

 

The Bills seem to know exactly who they are on defense and aren't afraid to commit resources there.  The offensive identify on the other hand, is less well-defined. Even when we pay Knox and draft Cook, we don't really use them.  There isn't the commensurate increase in production - especially short passing yardage and RAC.  Would more free-agent money change this?  I'm looking for Dorsey to make strides in year 2.  Same time, Beane and McDermott can't make OL an afterthought.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, In Summary said:

...and thereby reinforcing the practice such that a meaningful change to a more O-line dominant offense becomes psychologically difficult.  Fans accept this because Josh makes exciting improvisational out-of-structure plays rather than boring and incremental in-structure plays that have worked for Brady and Mahomes.

 

The Bills seem to know exactly who they are on defense and aren't afraid to commit resources there.  The offensive identify on the other hand, is less well-defined. Even when we pay Knox and draft Cook, we don't really use them.  There isn't the commensurate increase in production - especially short passing yardage and RAC.  Would more free-agent money change this?  I'm looking for Dorsey to make strides in year 2.  Same time, Beane and McDermott can't make OL an afterthought.

The offense was #2 overall, how many more strides does Dorsey have to take lol

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

We drafted Cody Ford in the second round. Was him being a garbage player and Creed Humphrey being good not luck? What about Spencer Brown, who was drafted higher than Trey Smith?

 

If Spencer Brown and Cody Ford are as good as Trey Smith and Creed Humphrey, are we still having this conversation?

 

Why did you ignore Orlando Browm and Joe Thuney?

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

we spent it on von miller who blew his knee out and we lost our pass rush. same with tre, hyde 

 

Yes, we wasted it on defensive players who either got hurt or underperformed.  We should've rebuilt the OL 4 years ago. We settled for Diggs and no one else. You reap what you sow.  If Josh becomes Dan Marino it will be on McB.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Why did you ignore Orlando Browm and Joe Thuney?

Because Dion Dawkins is better than Orlando Brown and is already on our team, we hardly needed to trade a first rounder for an LT, who walked for nothing in FA. Joe Thuney was a great move sure, but we have also made our own large contract splashes with IOL, namely Mitch Morse.

 

Do the Chiefs win the Super Bowl if Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith are Cody Ford and Spencer Brown level talents? The answer, obviously, is no.   Do the Bills have one of the best OL's in football if Cody Ford and Spencer Brown are as good as Creed and Smith?  Obviously, yes.

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

He says:

 

"If I'm Josh Allen, and I'm on a team friendly deal, I'm saying to somebody: 'What the hell are you doing with all the money I left behind? Where's the beef? Why do I not have the help I need?' "

 

It's a REALLY good question. This team restructures Allen, and does what with it, exactly? Finds a cheap guard? Brings back AJ Klein?

This draft will tell us what the future's gonna look like. If they blow it (as they have in recent drafts) on defense, I think it's time for Allen to start making noise. And frankly, he has every right to.

 

 

Okay, who exactly was Beane supposed to go out and get then? Odell for $15mil? Pursue the broken down ghost of Allen Robinson? You tell me since you’re so outspokenly agreeing with this clown Florio.

[DieHardFan]

34 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

They talked more about this idea yesterday too:

 

 

To summarize - they say that the Bills are so concerned with being at least average at every position, they've missed out on being really great at a couple positions other than QB. Specifically at WR Florio thinks we have been stubborn and that everyone other than Buffalo knows we need more there. Simms makes the case that we should do what the Chiefs did, go all in on offensive infrastructure and just have a couple pieces on defense that can make some plays.

Exactly! Was just about to post this myself. [BTW for the ADD crowd the pertinent part is between 2:24 and 6:35]

 

Homer's here will not like to hear it but it make alot of sense.

[DieHardFan]

37 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Simms is wrong. That's not what the Chiefs did.  At all.

 

Trading away a top 5 WR and taking a DE and a CB in the first is not going all in on offensive infrastructure.

 

They got lucky and found diamonds in the rough for the OL in the later parts of the draft.

Pertinent part was their take on the Bill's Personnel policy, so let's pick apart Simm's tidbit on KC. SMH

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

It's going to be a long off-season. 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

8 minutes ago, DieHardFan said:

Exactly! Was just about to post this myself. [BTW for the ADD crowd the pertinent part is between 2:24 and 6:35]

 

Homer's here will not like to hear it but it make alot of sense.

Sims and Florio are 100% right. Enough of trying to build a complete team. Andy sacrifices on defense all the time to emphasize his offense. And unfortunately you have a stubborn defensive HC unwilling to build his resources around his superstar.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

13 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Okay, who exactly was Beane supposed to go out and get then? Odell for $15mil? Pursue the broken down ghost of Allen Robinson? You tell me since you’re so outspokenly agreeing with this clown Florio.

Telling me we couldn't have traded a first for an AJ Brown last year instead of drafting Kaiir Elam?

 

Lots of different things could have been done to bolster the offense with some imagination

 

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

He says:

 

"If I'm Josh Allen, and I'm on a team friendly deal, I'm saying to somebody: 'What the hell are you doing with all the money I left behind? Where's the beef? Why do I not have the help I need?' "

 

It's a REALLY good question. This team restructures Allen, and does what with it, exactly? Finds a cheap guard? Brings back AJ Klein?

This draft will tell us what the future's gonna look like. If they blow it (as they have in recent drafts) on defense, I think it's time for Allen to start making noise. And frankly, he has every right to.

 

 

It’s not really a good question.  They restructured Josh’s contract because they were over the cap.

 

The #1 problem with the Bills roster IMO is their failure to develop the defensive line.  They spent 3 premium picks on DE and at the end of 2021 had no pass rush so they overspent to get Von Miller.  When he was active he gave the Bills what they were looking for, but of course, he tore his ACL.  
 

They’ve tied multiple premium draft picks and a very high salary into DE and as of today only have a decent player like Greg Roseau to show for it.  

[Billz4ever]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

He says:

 

"If I'm Josh Allen, and I'm on a team friendly deal, I'm saying to somebody: 'What the hell are you doing with all the money I left behind? Where's the beef? Why do I not have the help I need?' "

 

It's a REALLY good question. This team restructures Allen, and does what with it, exactly? Finds a cheap guard? Brings back AJ Klein?

This draft will tell us what the future's gonna look like. If they blow it (as they have in recent drafts) on defense, I think it's time for Allen to start making noise. And frankly, he has every right to.

 

 

 

Wait, so his argument is to have less cap space to work with and as a result, have a less talented roster? Weird.

 

Pretty sure Josh would tell this clown to not even pretend to think he speaks for him.  Josh understands that the more cap space Beane has to work with, the more possibilities he has to improve the roster.

 

If Josh were selfish, he'd think like this fool is talking.  Josh wants to win.

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Sims and Florio are 100% right. Enough of trying to build a complete team. Andy sacrifices on defense all the time to emphasize his offense. And unfortunately you have a stubborn defensive HC unwilling to build his resources around his superstar.  

How has Andy sacrificed defense? 

[RoyBatty is alive]

1) No it is not a serious question.

 

2) J Allen when he signed the deal was not exactly "team friendly".  At that time it was a reasonable deal but if you want to use hindsight and suddenly compare his contract to what QBs are getting now a year later  with QB inflation that is a highly flawed, borderline laughable proposition.