Florio raises an excellent question:

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

As stated my contention is that the roster construction and cap allocation under Beane and McDermott is now being rightfully questioned due to lack of post season success

 

 

It's easy to be Monday morning QB while also ignoring other factors that play into that.

 

Also, not sure that has to do with the asinine comments of Florio, who clearly lacks a grasp of the facts in the matter of Josh's contract and his willingness to restructure to free up cap space.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

 

It's easy to be Monday morning QB while also ignoring other factors that play into that.

 

Also, not sure that has to do with the asinine comments of Florio, who clearly lacks a grasp of the facts in the matter of Josh's contract and his willingness to restructure to free up cap space.

Again: the fact that the Bills' offense is entirely too QB dependent has been known for three seasons at least

 

There were legitimate questions asked when no competition was brought in at WR2 last year or whether Knox and his deal were the answer at TE

 

Efforts to address the offensive line have been underwhelming while the investment in the dline has continued apace

 

This is hardly Monday morning quarterbacking

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

As stated my contention is that the roster construction and cap allocation under Beane and McDermott is now being rightfully questioned due to lack of post season success

 

Niners have wins too

 

I don't think it's such a stretch to say this team has underachieved in the playoffs considering who we have at QB

49ers have 4, same as the Bills. 

 

Like I said, ya'll want to make it out to be some easily correctable strategic flaw. It's not.  It's just getting better players.

 

You will not find a consistent strategy as to why the Bengals, the Chiefs, the Bucs and the Rams have won more playoff games than the Bills in the last 3 seasons. What you will find is that those teams, by and large, just had better players.

 

That 2020 Bucs team was INSANE from a talent perspective.  They had a #1 WR as their #3!  They didn't win because they spent 4 draft picks on the OL instead of 3.

 

The Bengals throw it all over the yard because they have 2 AWESOME WR's, one drafted in the top 10 and the other drafted early in the second round. Our last top 10 pick hasn't even earned a second contract yet, and our last pick early in the second round was traded for a bag of peanuts already.

 

The Rams strategy has been belabored to death so I hope I don't have to explain that one.

 

You can go up and down the roster of every single one of those teams. I would take the 2020 Bucs, the 2021 Bengals, the 2021 Rams and the 2022 Chiefs over this entire Bills 53 over the same time period sans Josh Allen. So would everyone else.

[Billz4ever]

21 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Again: the fact that the Bills' offense is entirely too QB dependent has been known for three seasons at least

 

There were legitimate questions asked when no competition was brought in at WR2 last year or whether Knox and his deal were the answer at TE

 

Efforts to address the offensive line have been underwhelming while the investment in the dline has continued apace

 

This is hardly Monday morning quarterbacking

 

Nobody was complaining about the line the first quarter of the season last year when the Bills looked like world beaters and let's not kid ourselves...many people thought Davis was going to breakout last year.

 

Pretending things didn't happen like White coming back mid-season from ACL and Miller going down with an ACL among all the other injuries this team played through last season is certainly ignoring other factors that have played into where we are with the cap and the production we've gotten from high dollar contract guys being either on the sideline or trying to return from injury. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Billz4ever

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Yeah they just won a Super Bowl with some rookies on D. Have our rookies helped us? How about all the draft picks we spent on DL, how much playing time they getting these days? On top of that we are spending money on guys upfront that are only on the field half the time.  

I mean, Elam contributed a lot this year.

 

The problem isn't "picking defensive players."  The problem is picking the wrong players, who suck.

 

If we go all offense, every single pick in 2023, and they are all AJ Epenesa and Boogie Basham type players, they are gonna suck too my dude.

[Free Speech]

4 hours ago, eball said:

 

It's the perfect example.  Aaron tries to manipulate the front office all the time...and you see what happens.

Who are the Bills’ 2nd and 3rd string QBs again?

[BillsVet]

 

3 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The Bills strategy is keep the team that has won 13, 11 and 13 games in the 2020-2022 regular season as intact as possible. 

 

So that means Milano extended, Poyer brought back, Dane Jackson tendered, Lawson & Phillips back, Boettger and Quesenberry back, Dodson, Tyler M, Klein all back at LB.

 

Because of high dollar contract core of Allen, Miller, Diggs, Milano, White, Knox, Morse, Dawkins, and to a lesser extent Poyer & Hyde, it is harder to add blue chip difference makers to the offense. 

 

The same guys largely running it back in '21. '22 and now '23 are the ones who spent themselves into that cap situation, yet insist their plan only needs minor tweaks 3 years running.   Their cap challenges are a self-inflicted wound resulting from a refusal to prioritize away from the defensive side and toward the offense.  Not an abdication on defense, only to reduce using their best resources elsewhere at this point in the McBeane tenure. Consider that a defensive 1st this year would make it 6 of 8 years using their best draft picks on a defensive player.  This is Ted Thompson territory.         

 

Fastest way to being a championship team is to get the QB, surround them with top-end skill players and block for those guys.  Defense isn't winning championships anymore and it's not debatable.  You get the guys who can rush the passer, cover, and everything in between isn't that crucial compared to the offensive side.

 

As long as this franchise invests as much as they do in defense with picks and UFA dollars, they'll always short-change their best player.  You can't be elite on both sides and of late, the regular season defense wilts in the post-season, putting more on an under-talent offense to make things happen.  

[GoBills808]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

49ers have 4, same as the Bills. 

 

Like I said, ya'll want to make it out to be some easily correctable strategic flaw. It's not.  It's just getting better players.

 

You will not find a consistent strategy as to why the Bengals, the Chiefs, the Bucs and the Rams have won more playoff games than the Bills in the last 3 seasons. What you will find is that those teams, by and large, just had better players.

 

That 2020 Bucs team was INSANE from a talent perspective.  They had a #1 WR as their #3!  They didn't win because they spent 4 draft picks on the OL instead of 3.

 

The Bengals throw it all over the yard because they have 2 AWESOME WR's, one drafted in the top 10 and the other drafted early in the second round. Our last top 10 pick hasn't even earned a second contract yet, and our last pick early in the second round was traded for a bag of peanuts already.

 

The Rams strategy has been belabored to death so I hope I don't have to explain that one.

 

You can go up and down the roster of every single one of those teams. I would take the 2020 Bucs, the 2021 Bengals, the 2021 Rams and the 2022 Chiefs over this entire Bills 53 over the same time period sans Josh Allen. So would everyone else.

Maybe. I think you significantly undersell the talent the Bills have had on the defensive side of the ball since 2020 in comparison to the Bengals and Chiefs in particular.

 

It also underlines the point of not having enough horses on offense. Which, while not easy, is certainly correctable as your examples illustrate.

 

imo swap any of those teams' HC and coordinators and the Bills make two SBs and probably win a championship

[Billl]

Typical BS from Florio.  The Bills began last season with either the best roster in the NFL or the second best behind the Eagles.  The problem was that they were an older team, and they wore down over the course of the season while some of the younger teams improved with experience.  

 

It’s entirely possible that 2022 was the best roster Josh is ever surrounded by.  Not only did that team max out the salary cap, but it borrowed from the future via back-loaded contracts.  In the end, Josh led the team to 10 points in their playoff loss.  His line didn’t do him any favors, but Allen earned plenty of the blame.

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Maybe. I think you significantly undersell the talent the Bills have had on the defensive side of the ball since 2020 in comparison to the Bengals and Chiefs in particular.

 

It also underlines the point of not having enough horses on offense. Which, while not easy, is certainly correctable as your examples illustrate.

 

imo swap any of those teams' HC and coordinators and the Bills make two SBs and probably win a championship

On paper?  Maybe.  On the field?  No.

 

We have been absolutely snakebitten with key defensive guys injured every year past 2020. Teams that lose their best pass rusher and their best DB don't win too many Superbowls.

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Typical BS from Florio.  The Bills began last season with either the best roster in the NFL or the second best behind the Eagles.  The problem was that they were an older team, and they wore down over the course of the season while some of the younger teams improved with experience.  

 

It’s entirely possible that 2022 was the best roster Josh is ever surrounded by.  Not only did that team max out the salary cap, but it borrowed from the future via back-loaded contracts.  In the end, Josh led the team to 10 points in their playoff loss.  His line didn’t do him any favors, but Allen earned plenty of the blame.

Hard disagree.  Roger Saffold was legit the worst OG in the NFL.  It was the worst WR group Josh played with since 2019.

 

Defense on paper was probably the best, but losing Hyde/Miller and having Tre White look like a corpse out there is why the games aren't played on paper.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

Typical BS from Florio.  The Bills began last season with either the best roster in the NFL or the second best behind the Eagles.  The problem was that they were an older team, and they wore down over the course of the season while some of the younger teams improved with experience.  

 

It’s entirely possible that 2022 was the best roster Josh is ever surrounded by.  Not only did that team max out the salary cap, but it borrowed from the future via back-loaded contracts.  In the end, Josh led the team to 10 points in their playoff loss.  His line didn’t do him any favors, but Allen earned plenty of the blame.

LOL you are the Thomas Edison of bad takes

 

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

On paper?  Maybe.  On the field?  No.

 

We have been absolutely snakebitten with key defensive guys injured every year past 2020. Teams that lose their best pass rusher and their best DB don't win too many Superbowls.

Yes, the injuries to the defense in 2022 played a big role. But those guys were healthy in 2021 and the result was similar, albeit minus Miller

[JerseyBills]

That just isn't who Josh is

Now I'm sure The coaches and scouts talk to him about how he feels they could maximize the O and get the most out of it but 17 seems like a real genuine,  level headed guy. 

 

He works his butt off every off season,  I'm sure he believes he's talented enough to win with whoever they surround him with because of his confidence in his game 

 

It's just a blessing to have this dude

[FireChans]

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

LOL you are the Thomas Edison of bad takes

 

Yes, the injuries to the defense in 2022 played a big role. But those guys were healthy in 2021 and the result was similar, albeit minus Miller

Tre White wasn’t healthy…..

 

Do the Rams win the Super Bowl missing Jalen Ramsey or Aaron Donald the entire postseason?

Edited April 18, 2023 by FireChans

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Tre White wasn’t healthy…..

I don't think that matters at this point. He wasn't healthy in either 2021 or 2022 and tbh I don't know if he's ever going to regain top form

 

Imagine if the Basham or Epenesa picks had been used or traded for guys who play offense. I won't claim to know who they might have been or if it would have made a difference but we've seen the defense at what amounts to full strength and it hasn't been getting the job done in the playoffs. That's the rub for people like me who want to shift resources to that side of the ball.

[mjd1001]

I'm not sure I'd say its much of a team friendly deal.

 

Allen is consenus top 10 QB. Probably a top 5 guy in the league, but he sure isn't the undisputed #1 in the league.  He's getting paid only about 4% less than the consensus top guy in the league, and to my knowledge every other deal ahead of him (per season) other than Mahomes was signed after his...which is what happens in the NFL, the latest contract is usually higher.  

So its not really a team friendly deal. Its a fair deal, but when you are getting paid almost as much as the top guy in the league its not like he took $8 million or more less per year than he could have gotten.

[Chaos]

9 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

 

Allen is consenus top 10 QB. Probably a top 5 guy in the league, but he sure isn't the undisputed #1 in the league.

List 9 QBs teams would rather have than Allen. Please wear a dunce cap until you put your list together. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Chaos

[Billl]

57 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

LOL you are the Thomas Edison of bad takes

 

Yes, the injuries to the defense in 2022 played a big role. But those guys were healthy in 2021 and the result was similar, albeit minus Miller

So you really think the Bills are an ascending roster or that Beane is going to somehow figure out how to increase the talent level on the team while Allen and Miller’s cap hits go from $26 million in 2023 to $71 million in 2024?  While Diggs goes from $15 million to $28 million and he’s 31 years old?  

 

Where is this infusion of young talent coming from?  Maybe I missed something, but there doesn’t appear to be a bunch of recent draft picks waiting in the wings to replace guys like White, Poyer, Hyde, Miller, Oliver, Diggs, Edmunds, etc.  This franchise was built to peak in 2022, and it did just that.  In the middle of the season, they were the odds on favorites to win the Super Bowl.  This is the first offseason since at least 2018 that the Bills weren’t buyers, and a year from now they’re going to be full-blown sellers.  Unless guys like Epenesa, Basham, Rousseau, Elam, Cook, Bernard, Brown, Davis, etc. are ready to step in and not miss a beat, then roster age and salary issues are going to loom large.

[John from Riverside]

I hate restating the obvious
 

The team went 13 and three last year they’re winning. They’re just not finishing.

 

Let’s not act like groceries have not been bought

[Dan in Owego]

Florio family gotta eat too😂, just typical offseason attempt at keeping the clicks coming.

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

So you really think the Bills are an ascending roster or that Beane is going to somehow figure out how to increase the talent level on the team while Allen and Miller’s cap hits go from $26 million in 2023 to $71 million in 2024?  While Diggs goes from $15 million to $28 million and he’s 31 years old?  

 

Where is this infusion of young talent coming from?  Maybe I missed something, but there doesn’t appear to be a bunch of recent draft picks waiting in the wings to replace guys like White, Poyer, Hyde, Miller, Oliver, Diggs, Edmunds, etc.  This franchise was built to peak in 2022, and it did just that.  In the middle of the season, they were the odds on favorites to win the Super Bowl.  This is the first offseason since at least 2018 that the Bills weren’t buyers, and a year from now they’re going to be full-blown sellers.  Unless guys like Epenesa, Basham, Rousseau, Elam, Cook, Bernard, Brown, Davis, etc. are ready to step in and not miss a beat, then roster age and salary issues are going to loom large.

They’re gonna do it the same way that all the other teams do it whenever they have high cap hits they’re going to start using younger, drafted players

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Not sure, I agree with the take.
 

without checking the actual numbers, where is the money going? Here’s my guesses.

 

Dion Dawkins top 15 left tackle in the league and still under 30.

 

Stefon Diggs- top 5-8 wr

 

Tre White

 

Von Miller

 

Poyer and Hyde- best safety duo in the league

 

Matt Milano- 1st team all pro linebacker

 

Mitch Morse- top 15 Starting Center

 

Dawson Knox- top 15 TE and young.

 

including Allen, these players would make up our top 10 highest paid players.

 

i don’t see anything majorly alarming. 

 

The thing that stands out to me is that three of these players were essentially lost to injury last season. Hyde, Miller and White.

 

Miller looked to be playing himself into a second team all pro selection before he went down.

 

Hyde was a huge loss and missed the most games out of all of them.

 

White has not been White since coming back from his ACL. But he was worth the contract when the Bills extended him. Theirs not really anything they can do but hope he returns to form.

 

Their super star high contract guys outside of Allen are Miller, Diggs and White. All of them appear worth their contracts but injuries derailed two of them.

 

where fair criticism should be placed is on Beane’s inability to draft more top 15 players outside of Allen in the last five drafts he has overseen. 

 

 

 

The other part of this take that is bad is “all that money left behind”. Let’s not over react as if Allen is playing for peanuts. He’s still being paid top 10 at the position and that means the Bills are not going to be sitting on a mountain of extra cash to bring in more top talent than the average team. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is just dumb on Florios part.  The Bills are up against it as far as the cap goes because they’ve spent on Diggs, Miller, Milano, etc.  Buffalo has been spending!  

Exactly. I think the Bills season could have been drastically different for the better had Hyde and Miller not gone down with injuries. The Bills are spending money. The injuries to Hyde and Miller and really White as well, who is not the top 5 corner back he was before the injury, really put the Bills in a tough spot. 
 

On offense they have spent money on Dawkins, Morse and Knox. The key is they have to hit on value free agents again (think Beasley and John Brown) and draft picks. 

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

They’re gonna do it the same way that all the other teams do it whenever they have high cap hits they’re going to start using younger, drafted players

I agree.  The question becomes whether those younger players are as good as the aging, expensive players.  How many players currently playing on their rookie deals have shown themselves to be cornerstone type players?  Groot looks like he’s going to be at least a solid player, and he’s still got upside.  Other than that, there are mostly question marks.  I liked Elam coming out of Florida, but I don’t know what happened with him last year.  Will Davis put it all together just in time to earn a huge payday?

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is just dumb on Florios part.  The Bills are up against it as far as the cap goes because they’ve spent on Diggs, Miller, Milano, etc.  Buffalo has been spending!  

Not so much on offense, Diggs and who else as above average help for Allen? and especially not on the O-line, in that respect they have fallen short in a noticeable way, look at what your own team did with their O-line, and they did it in one off season. I like an awful lot about what Beane and McDermott have done, but they appear at this point to have plateaued a bit.
 

   They have by far put the majority of there eggs in the defensive basket, with less than expected results in the post season for three consecutive years, and now gently pushed Frazier out the door, and during that time used a fair number of also ran types on the offensive side as supposed help for their franchise QB. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[newcam2012]

8 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

We basically save money on Josh then, Diggs aside, spend it on defense.

I think a better question is why hasn't the Oline been upgraded to at least being solid? For the past 5 years the Oline has always been an issue. I'd agrue it's been a weakness more than anything. 

 

Allen has every right to pound the table for better protection and run blocking.

 

It's the major issue that has really kept the team from advancing.

 

Perhaps that's what Florio is getting at in a round about way. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by newcam2012

[ALF]

Defense    32    $112,178,801

Offense    29    $108,037,554

Special Teams    $3,801,056

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/positional/

[papazoid]

#1 - team friendly ?....i dont think so...josh got fair market value at the time he signed......the market going up is a different issue.

 

#2- whats beane doing with the money ? guess he never heard of spotrac.... guess building a top 5 roster was dumb luck

 

#3 - is it time to use some day 1 & 2 draft capital on offense....YES!

 

#4- florio is paid to create click bait content......he's good at making mountains out of mole hills.

[Billl]

55 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Not so much on offense, Diggs and who else as above average help for Allen? and especially not on the O-line, in that respect they have fallen short in a noticeable way, look at what your own team did with their O-line, and they did it in one off season. I like an awful lot about what Beane and McDermott have done, but they appear at this point to have plateaued a bit.
 

   They have by far put the majority of there eggs in the defensive basket, with less than expected results in the post season for three consecutive years, and now gently pushed Frazier out the door, and during that time used a fair number of also ran types on the offensive side as supposed help for their franchise QB. 
 

Go Bills!!!

4 of their 5 biggest cap hits in 2023 are on offense.

[mrags]

8 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

He says:

 

"If I'm Josh Allen, and I'm on a team friendly deal, I'm saying to somebody: 'What the hell are you doing with all the money I left behind? Where's the beef? Why do I not have the help I need?' "

 

It's a REALLY good question. This team restructures Allen, and does what with it, exactly? Finds a cheap guard? Brings back AJ Klein?

This draft will tell us what the future's gonna look like. If they blow it (as they have in recent drafts) on defense, I think it's time for Allen to start making noise. And frankly, he has every right to.

 

 

💯 

[Fan in Chicago]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

As stated my contention is that the roster construction and cap allocation under Beane and McDermott is now being rightfully questioned due to lack of post season success

 

I don't think it's such a stretch to say this team has underachieved in the playoffs considering who we have at QB

Yep. It is not just about Allen's contract value but the way other money was spent. Should we have acquired von Miller when that money could have then be used eventually on OL and WR? I think the latter was the better option (and not because Miller got injured). 

 

Right now, the FO actions of Buffalo and Green Bay look frighteningly similar. At least Rodgers won a SB with those actions so we can hope for that. But with someone like #17, we should be thinking more along the lines of the success the Chiefs are having. 

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

4 of their 5 biggest cap hits in 2023 are on offense.

Bills spend 49% of their cap on defense and 47% on offense

 

Chiefs spend 35% on defense and 55% on offense

 

Bengals spend 41% on defense and 51% on offense

[julian]

I’ll agree that there’s a time coming soon for Allen to demand more help on offense, just a matter of when.

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

Buffalo has been spending!  

 

On defense…

8 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

We basically save money on Josh then, Diggs aside, spend it on defense.

 

Bingo.

This was Florio’s point.

 

It seems to have flown over several people’s heads.

[Billl]

28 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Bills spend 49% of their cap on defense and 47% on offense

 

Chiefs spend 35% on defense and 55% on offense

 

Bengals spend 41% on defense and 51% on offense

They also just restructured Allen’s contract to reduce his hit this season by nearly $20 million which skews those numbers pretty significantly.  

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

They also just restructured Allen’s contract to reduce his hit this season by nearly $20 million which skews those numbers pretty significantly.  

that's literally what this thread is about

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, pocoboy said:

 

Florio says whatever he believes will give the Patriots an advantage.

 

 

Florio is a Vikings fan. Not a Patriots fan.

 

He’s also one of the best reporters in sports. He rarely if ever pretends to know inside knowledge. He just gives his opinion.

[PrimeTime101]

8 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Yeah, I am broke too

Where's the Ashtray ?

here's a dime and a prayer. 

[Einstein]

34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Bills spend 49% of their cap on defense and 47% on offense

 

Chiefs spend 35% on defense and 55% on offense

 

Bengals spend 41% on defense and 51% on offense

 

The Bengals will be more like 65% offense and 35% defense once Burrow and Chase get paid.

 

Chiefs also just unloaded Tyreek and his huge contract last year. I’m assuming they were over 60% with Hill.

 

The Bills 47% is well behind.

[Niagara Dude]

8 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

He says:

 

"If I'm Josh Allen, and I'm on a team friendly deal, I'm saying to somebody: 'What the hell are you doing with all the money I left behind? Where's the beef? Why do I not have the help I need?' "

 

It's a REALLY good question. This team restructures Allen, and does what with it, exactly? Finds a cheap guard? Brings back AJ Klein?

This draft will tell us what the future's gonna look like. If they blow it (as they have in recent drafts) on defense, I think it's time for Allen to start making noise. And frankly, he has every right to.

 

 

So obvious to see,  only Beane apologists cannot see he has done next to nothing this offseason.  Glad Mike called it

[78thealltimegreat]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Defense 1st that throws the football a lot and has one of the highest scoring offenses in the NFL.

 

We can all agree the Beasley replacement didn’t work last year. That’s 1 season.

His high draft capital and free agent signings have been heavily defense oriented. They just expect Josh to work miracles with the supporting cast and line. Player for player on that oline would any of these guys start for the chiefs or eagles?