Can you imagine being Allen last night?

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Without a defensive TD the Chiefs would have lost. 

 

And one handed to them on a platter.

[Manther]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

Agreed

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

Agreed

[Solomon Grundy]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

"The Process" has run its course

McDermott changed the culture at OBD. Can he "lead the charge" to a SB win??

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, OK, I think you're only looking at  part of the picture.  How many games have we won that we otherwise would have lost had we had any number of the QBs we've had prior to Allen.  How about Peterman?  Do you think that we'd have even posted a winning record with him, McD's endorsement?   Does that make any kind of impact regarding your respect for McD?  Just sayin'. 

 

How about Tyrod Taylor?  Fitzpatrick?  Manuel?  Orton?  Bledsoe?  etc.  

I don't think we'd even have won a division title with them under McD.  

 

Besides, we have Allen, Reid has Mahomes.  Are you saying that we're forever incapable of beating Reid/Mahomes with McD/Allen then?  Sure seems like it.  And if so, then what are we waiting for.  And we're not getting rid of Allen.  

I think we can beat Reid/Mahomes if Allen plays better, McD and the gang coaches better, and the team gets better. All things I believe are possible.

 

McD posted a winning record and a playoff berth with Tyrod so I’m kind of unclear on what point you’re trying to make.

 

Reid had more success without Mahomes than McD had without Allen, but Reid had better QB’s. Reid had McNabb, Vick, and Alex Smith. All infinite better options than Peterman and EJ and the gang. But he still never won a Super Bowl without Mahomes. And he had A LOT of Mahomes-less years, where McD had 1. 
 

Where we differ is, yes, obviously McD wouldn’t have as much success without a top 5 QB. There is no team in history that has. BB hasn’t been rattling off Super Bowls without Brady. Arians never won without Brady. Reid never won without Mahomes. Payton and Brees. Kubiak and Manning. The list goes on and on. 
 

But that doesn’t mean your QB can’t play better to give you a better shot. Big Ben, Brady, Manning, Mahomes, Brees etc have all vacillated year to year in terms of performance to a certain extent. They didn’t put up 5k yards and 50 TD’s EVERY SEASON. They ebb and flow. So the solution is to put the best possible team around your QB, hope that your QB has a better performance than their average, and hope that it’s enough to beat the other contenders and superstars when it matters.

 

Patrick Mahomes is a better QB than Joe Burrow. But if Mahomes had 3 OL out instead of Burrow for the AFCCG, I believe there’s a REALLY good chance that Burrow is the one playing yesterday. 
 

This season, I believe that Josh Allen didn’t elevate his game like he did last season in the postseason. That’s okay. It happens. It’s okay to admit. The team played poorly, coaching wasn’t great and the QB didn’t elevate to a point to overcome that. All things that happen to all great players. The Chiefs won’t continue to run the table in the playoffs for the next decade. Bad breaks will come. The history of the NFL tells us this.

 

In summary, the answer is not “trade Allen” or “fire McD” or whatever. The answer is, “do the best job possible building around your franchise QB, and when the lights are brightest, hope he plays closer to 2020 regular season or 2021 postseason form than 2022 postseason form.”

[Mark Vader]

Can I imagine being a multi-millionaire QB in the NFL? Living in southern California, and having a superhot girlfriend?

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

If It wasn't "I need to play as good as these guys if I want to win a Super Bowl", then it isn't worth wondering about.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

He is just mad looking at the 2023 Futures NFL MVP Odds where Allen has a massive lead on Mahomes and everyone else.

 

Bills boards: Allen is a massive problem!! He isn't good enough! He turns the ball over way way too much!  He is a liability!  Wah! Wah! Wah!  

 

Vegas:  NFL MVP Favorite by a landslide.

 

Good MVP odds…. When’s the parade?

[julian]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Because it’s a football discussion board and “Josh is great SHUT UP” isn’t good discussion 

Lol… maybe more reading and less posting is order for those who’ve run out of “football discussion” and now must resort to critiquing other fans ability or willingness to critique players.

 

 Yawn

[Airseven]

Yes, I can imagine watching the game in some boujie west coast loft and laying out my gear for the AM tee time.

[SCBills]

53 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

McDermott changed the culture at OBD. Can he "lead the charge" to a SB win??

 

If we re-sign Edmunds and don't try to move Oliver, while signing some low/mid tier vets in Free Agency... I'm really going to lose faith.

 

If the Eagles (healthy) Defense wasn't able to slow down a high powered Offense in the post-season (where the style of play is different), then it's just not going to happen anymore.   

 

KC is so far ahead of us on the curve..  They invest heavy on Offense, with an Offensive genius HC, while giving Spags a mediocre Defense centered around an elite player in Chris Jones at DT. 

 

Would they re-sign Edmunds at the expense of protecting Mahomes?   Not explore trading a non-difference maker in his contract year so they can use his money for another Mahomes weapon?

 

Well, they hit on their Day 2 picks, so perhaps they never get in that situation, but they likely wouldn't.  They understand the modern NFL.  They don't have an outdated philosophy holding them back from allowing Mahomes to consistently have the best of everything they can provide. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

McDermott changed the culture at OBD. Can he "lead the charge" to a SB win??

 

That is the quintessential question, although I would argue that Allen changed the culture.  Cart/Horse thing.  McD would be history by now w/o Allen.  Remember, he "saw something in Peterman."  

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I think we can beat Reid/Mahomes if Allen plays better, McD and the gang coaches better, and the team gets better. All things I believe are possible.

 

...

 

In summary, the answer is not “trade Allen” or “fire McD” or whatever. The answer is, “do the best job possible building around your franchise QB, and when the lights are brightest, hope he plays closer to 2020 regular season or 2021 postseason form than 2022 postseason form.”

 

Well, belief is one thing, reality often quite another.  That's what it boils down to, who believes that he can and conversely, who believes that he cannot.  

 

Are they doing the best around Allen?   If not, why not?  Have they learned?  Are they actually correcting their issues & errors, both McD and Beane alike.  I'm not seeing it.  Apparently you are.  Hence the question.  

[The Jokeman]

56 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

If we re-sign Edmunds and don't try to move Oliver, while signing some low/mid tier vets in Free Agency... I'm really going to lose faith.

 

If the Eagles (healthy) Defense wasn't able to slow down a high powered Offense in the post-season (where the style of play is different), then it's just not going to happen anymore.   

 

KC is so far ahead of us on the curve..  They invest heavy on Offense, with an Offensive genius HC, while giving Spags a mediocre Defense centered around an elite player in Chris Jones at DT. 

 

Would they re-sign Edmunds at the expense of protecting Mahomes?   Not explore trading a non-difference maker in his contract year so they can use his money for another Mahomes weapon?

 

Well, they hit on their Day 2 picks, so perhaps they never get in that situation, but they likely wouldn't.  They understand the modern NFL.  They don't have an outdated philosophy holding them back from allowing Mahomes to consistently have the best of everything they can provide. 

Skyy Moore was a hit? Really? Sure he had a TD in the Super Bowl but that was his only catch and on the season he had 22. Not great production for a 2nd Round pick at WR. Mecole Hardman another 2nd Round  WR pick of there's that's is averaging 2.6 catches per game in his 4 year career oh and he was 8 picks before DJ Metcalf that most scream we missed out on. Oh another 2nd Rounder in 2018 Breeland Speaks is out of the NFL. KC might have had a strong draft in 2022 but they've been marginally better than the Bills at drafting when look at the whole picture. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, whorlnut said:

This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

It's been that way for a long time, that's why I wasn't so big on the Von signing.  He just doesn't do enough to come close to impacting our win total.

 

Unfortunately, the Bills administration definitely favors defense.

And on top of it, the defensive guys they made a priority aren't particularly good!
 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

He also saw good coaches, which we don't have

[Mango]

20 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Skyy Moore was a hit? Really? Sure he had a TD in the Super Bowl but that was his only catch and on the season he had 22. Not great production for a 2nd Round pick at WR. Mecole Hardman another 2nd Round  WR pick of there's that's is averaging 2.6 catches per game in his 4 year career oh and he was 8 picks before DJ Metcalf that most scream we missed out on. Oh another 2nd Rounder in 2018 Breeland Speaks is out of the NFL. KC might have had a strong draft in 2022 but they've been marginally better than the Bills at drafting when look at the whole picture. 

 

I think Mahomes does a great job of spreading the ball around. Similar to Brady (barf) they force teams to cover everybody even if they are middling depth receivers. We don't do a good enough job at that. Sure the Chiefs highlight Kelce, but they throw the ball to anybody. For reference the Bills have 7 players who average one target per game. The Chiefs have 10. KC has 4 players with 50+ catches and another 4 with 30+. The Bills have 1 player with 50+ catches and 4 over 30.

 

We don't really spread the ball around at all. 

[Ramza86]

5 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Every QB is going to be prone to a boneheaded error. The issue is Josh seems more boom or bust than the rest. He’s in the top five QBs in the league because of his physical attributes but his mentality is dragging him back. The O Line isn’t helping, no, but he does make more ‘unforced’ errors than his peers at the top.

 

Which I believe would be very much corrected with a good offensive line.

 

As you saw Mahomes had one of his most efficient years with the improvement on the offensive line.

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

I think the URL injury to Josh on a blindside hit was the first wake-up call this front office needed.  If you recall Bryce Huff ran right around David Quessenberry which could have possibly taken Josh out for the rest of the season and maybe longer.   

 

Beane and McDermott whiffed on OL badly this season and it cost them.  Their biggest mistake was counting on Roger Saffold who not only had a miserable season but also forced Ryan Bates to the right side where he isn’t as effective.

 

The other mistake was counting too heavy on Spencer Brown.  Much like his rookie season he struggled down the stretch and was often injured.  
 

I am certain the Bills will grab at least one lineman high and try to find better depth than last season.  
 

 

 

[zow2]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

 

Yep. That summarizes what Beane and every other GM should be thinking.  NFL defenders can be coached and schemed to slow down guys like Mahomes and Hurts, but you're never going to stop them.   Paying a 34 year old edge rusher, with a bad knee an obscene amount of money to get you to the promised land was a swing and a miss.

[Mr. WEO]

I'm here for the fresh O-line takes...

[Beast]

<checks my bank account>
 

No, I can’t. LOL

Edited February 13, 2023 by Beast