Can you imagine being Allen last night?

[Mr. WEO]

Can you imagine being Tyreek Hill last night?

[DCofNC]

5 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

This organization had every opportunity to build a dominant OL in front of Josh in 2019 and beyond.  They've failed him, plain & simple.  They choose defensive failures over protecting and supporting your greatest asset.  Let McD wrestle with that.

How they handle this off-season will tell you everything you need to know about their plans.  If they sign Edmunds to a big deal and bring more scrubs in on the OL, Josh might as well start asking for a trade.

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Can you imagine being Tyreek Hill last night?

No, my daughter was there being loud and I didn’t think about beating her for it, not even once.  

[78thealltimegreat]

I don’t even know why a guy who played half the season with a partial tear in his throwing arm would even be criticized at this point. 
If Josh decided it was best to shut it down for the season after the Jets game. We’d be discussing drafting Jalen Carter or Peter Skoronski. That’s how many holes he masks on this roster 

Chiefs oline 2

Eagles oline 1

Bills oline 26 

[whorlnut]

39 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

I don’t even know why a guy who played half the season with a partial tear in his throwing arm would even be criticized at this point. 
If Josh decided it was best to shut it down for the season after the Jets game. We’d be discussing drafting Jalen Carter or Peter Skoronski. That’s how many holes he masks on this roster 

Chiefs oline 2

Eagles oline 1

Bills oline 26 

Well said. If McBeane can’t see the reason the chiefs won last night is their oline and replicate it this off-season then I have no hope. 

[Chaos]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

I love Josh. 

 

I think the narrative that he can do no wrong and is constantly let down by everyone around him is false.

He does no wrong. His team and coaches constantly let him down. It is the proper narrative. 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, DCofNC said:

How they handle this off-season will tell you everything you need to know about their plans.  If they sign Edmunds to a big deal and bring more scrubs in on the OL, Josh might as well start asking for a trade.

No, my daughter was there being loud and I didn’t think about beating her for it, not even once.  

My biggest fear.  But I think Brandon finally realizes he's in a little trouble. I think we're allocating a majority of the draft and FA on offense. We're not re-signing Edmunds,  Poyer or Singletary. And frankly Gabe & Ed are on thin ice.

Edited February 14, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[Dr.Sack]

I recall a common refrain from a certain demographic of fans in regards to certain types of quarterbacks “his athleticism is great but he cannot mentally process the game fast enough”. The high turnovers caused by holding on to the ball and / not seeing anticipating pressure or reading defensive coverage are an example of slow processing. 

[ganesh]

11 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Every QB is going to be prone to a boneheaded error. The issue is Josh seems more boom or bust than the rest. He’s in the top five QBs in the league because of his physical attributes but his mentality is dragging him back. The O Line isn’t helping, no, but he does make more ‘unforced’ errors than his peers at the top.

I somehow feel that Josh was reined in better by Daboll whereas he seems to be 'more comfortable' with Dorsey and is taking bigger gambles.  It would be good for our coaches to push that down to Allen.  This season we went for a jugular a lot more often than the previous years and it didn't make sense when your OL couldn't hold up.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I somehow feel that Josh was reined in better by Daboll whereas he seems to be 'more comfortable' with Dorsey and is taking bigger gambles.  It would be good for our coaches to push that down to Allen.  This season we went for a jugular a lot more often than the previous years and it didn't make sense when your OL couldn't hold up.

We all agree that the O line is no good and going for the jugular may not be the best move given how little time Allen has to pass.  And from this is born the "Allen needs to check down more to wide open receivers" meme.  So who should Allen check the throw down to?  Who among our skill players has elite speed to outrun coverage & tacklers?  Who among our skill players can make multiple guys miss the tackle?  Who among our skill players can read defenses like a book and know where to settle down to be open?  And who among our skill players is a brute that can regularly break tackles?

 

There is a reason they brought Beasley back and tried to land McCaffrey.  Don't you think it was funny that in the 2 playoff games Beas had 9 targets catching 5 for 68 yards and a TD? And it's not like he was on the field much in those two games.  It's clear to me that if the skill player has any of the attributes I listed above Allen will get him the ball.  Beasley's skill is quick burst of speed and reading the coverage.

 

 

 

[Bookie Man]

Yeah but the 2 years prior it was Rams D and Bucs D that won for them. 

 

If Von didn't get hurt, I feel like Buffalo is doing the hoisting. Same with Tre year before. But who knows.

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

My biggest fear.  But I think Brandon finally realizes he's in a little trouble. I think we're allocating a majority of the draft and FA on offense. We're not re-signing Edmunds,  Poyer or Singletary. And frankly Gabe & Ed are on thin ice.

I get the same feeling. I think Beane realizes his defensive plan has pretty much shat on itself and his star qb is getting frustrated. You could see it in his press conference. Just didn’t seem to have a lot of answers and was very defensive (no pun intended) when rightfully criticized about the lack of offensive help. I do think Beane will realize he needs to have an offensive heavy off-season to balance things out a bit otherwise his job might be in trouble if there is another collapse. 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

My biggest fear.  But I think Brandon finally realizes he's in a little trouble. I think we're allocating a majority of the draft and FA on offense. We're not re-signing Edmunds,  Poyer or Singletary. And frankly Gabe & Ed are on thin ice.

I have no faith he will do this, but if Beane is seriously paying attention to how teams are winning Super Bowls, he’d let Edmunds, Poyer and Singletary walk… then yes, he’d absolutely trade Oliver and Davis.  Neither is a difference maker and both are in contract years. 
 

Letting Edmunds walk and trading Oliver gives the Bills around 24M to play with that they otherwise had allocated to defense. 
 

I’ll be conservative and say Oliver brings back a 4th and Davis a 3rd.  We now have ammo to move around the board or extra mid-round picks to replenish the defense with younger, cost controlled players at S, LB and DT. 
 

Im ok keeping Davis if they feel he will be content with signing a WR3 contract, but if not.. get a pick back while he has value. 
 

Edited February 14, 2023 by SCBills

[whorlnut]

22 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

We all agree that the O line is no good and going for the jugular may not be the best move given how little time Allen has to pass.  And from this is born the "Allen needs to check down more to wide open receivers" meme.  So who should Allen check the throw down to?  Who among our skill players has elite speed to outrun coverage & tacklers?  Who among our skill players can make multiple guys miss the tackle?  Who among our skill players can read defenses like a book and know where to settle down to be open?  And who among our skill players is a brute that can regularly break tackles?

 

There is a reason they brought Beasley back and tried to land McCaffrey.  Don't you think it was funny that in the 2 playoff games Beas had 9 targets catching 5 for 68 yards and a TD? And it's not like he was on the field much in those two games.  It's clear to me that if the skill player has any of the attributes I listed above Allen will get him the ball.  Beasley's skill is quick burst of speed and reading the coverage.

 

 

 

Very clear that Allen didn’t trust his line or “weapons”. Hence the broken plays and forcing throws. 

[Billznut]

32 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I somehow feel that Josh was reined in better by Daboll whereas he seems to be 'more comfortable' with Dorsey and is taking bigger gambles.  It would be good for our coaches to push that down to Allen.  This season we went for a jugular a lot more often than the previous years and it didn't make sense when your OL couldn't hold up.

Dorsey was handpicked by Josh to be the next OC here. Allen knows it, Dorsey knows it, everyone knows it. Dorsey can’t coach or “reign in” Josh the way Daboll did. Daboll was above Josh on the totem pole when he was there. Dorsey is NOT above Josh on the totem pole in this organization. Dorsey is OC here at the pleasure of Josh and because of Josh for one more year. If things go wrong again, he won’t be as lucky. 

[DCofNC]

45 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I have no faith he will do this, but if Beane is seriously paying attention to how teams are winning Super Bowls, he’d let Edmunds, Poyer and Singletary walk… then yes, he’d absolutely trade Oliver and Davis.  Neither is a difference maker and both are in contract years. 
 

Letting Edmunds walk and trading Oliver gives the Bills around 24M to play with that they otherwise had allocated to defense. 
 

I’ll be conservative and say Oliver brings back a 4th and Davis a 3rd.  We now have ammo to move around the board or extra mid-round picks to replenish the defense with younger, cost controlled players at S, LB and DT. 
 

Im ok keeping Davis if they feel he will be content with signing a WR3 contract, but if not.. get a pick back while he has value. 
 

You’re dreaming if you think Ed is bringing back a 4th.  Why would another team give up a 4th round pick for a non-impact player, getting 11M for one year?  There’s absolutely no chance.  A third for Gabe? Maybe, but I think you have to keep him and try to push him down the depth chart.  He’s not “bad”, he’s just not great.   If he doesn’t blow up in 2023, you let him walk.

[SCBills]

12 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

You’re dreaming if you think Ed is bringing back a 4th.  Why would another team give up a 4th round pick for a non-impact player, getting 11M for one year?  There’s absolutely no chance.  A third for Gabe? Maybe, but I think you have to keep him and try to push him down the depth chart.  He’s not “bad”, he’s just not great.   If he doesn’t blow up in 2023, you let him walk.

I think a healthy Oliver on the right DL could be a legit playmaker.  
 

He’s good, not great. 
 

I’d honestly give him away for a 7th, so I really don’t care what he brings back.  I just want his cap hit out of here.  
 

Davis, I’m with you.  Tougher call, but I do think he could bring back a decent pick .. see what Chase Claypool brought back..  If he’s not in future plans, or is a “wait and see”, just pull the plug and get a pick back.  
 

Neither of these two are difference makers for us. 

[DCofNC]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think a healthy Oliver on the right DL could be a legit playmaker.  
 

He’s good, not great. 
 

I’d honestly give him away for a 7th, so I really don’t care what he brings back.  I just want his cap hit out of here.  
 

Davis, I’m with you.  Tougher call, but I do think he could bring back a decent pick .. see what Chase Claypool brought back..  If he’s not in future plans, or is a “wait and see”, just pull the plug and get a pick back.  
 

Neither of these two are difference makers for us. 

I definitely want to clear Ed from the cap, he’s not worth what they are paying.  If they are going to continue this stupid rotation, no DL is ever going to justify big money. 
 

I hear what you are saying on Davis, but he’s a decent player on a cheap deal, as much as I’d like an upgrade at WR, I don’t really want Diggs and Shakir as the only guys who know the system coming to camp next year.  I’ll let it ride with him, worst case, you slap a transition tag on him next year.

[Ga boy]

12 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Agree to an extent. I definitely think that out of Mahomes, Burrow and himself he has the worst offense to play with and the weakest OL. But he doesn’t help himself.

 

My basic take is he’s physically the best QB in the league but, mentality wise, he trails behind those two. And that’s why it’s irritating - he has it all but he can’t quite compute how to get the best out of himself more often than not.

Maybe but no.  If JA17 had the O lines of KC and Cincy, he would be a genius.  Cmon, UKBill, he’s running and gunning from the snap.  However, I submit that Dorsey needs to scheme quick and short passes and screens.

[Ga boy]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I have no faith he will do this, but if Beane is seriously paying attention to how teams are winning Super Bowls, he’d let Edmunds, Poyer and Singletary walk… then yes, he’d absolutely trade Oliver and Davis.  Neither is a difference maker and both are in contract years. 
 

Letting Edmunds walk and trading Oliver gives the Bills around 24M to play with that they otherwise had allocated to defense. 
 

I’ll be conservative and say Oliver brings back a 4th and Davis a 3rd.  We now have ammo to move around the board or extra mid-round picks to replenish the defense with younger, cost controlled players at S, LB and DT. 
 

Im ok keeping Davis if they feel he will be content with signing a WR3 contract, but if not.. get a pick back while he has value. 
 

Agree with most of your points.  Why not let Edmunds walk?  The good teams find a way to neutralize him and run up the score.  I think he’s a good player, but we need scoring power more.  Can we pay him $20 million and improve our offense to Lombardi caliber?  Nay. 

[billsfan89]

Part of the offenses Uber success in the 2021 playoffs that ended in the 13 seconds game was the offensive line having peaked at the right time.

 

Dawkins and Mitch were their usual good selves while Bates came in strong at Left guard playing well above average and D Williams was a really solid RG and Spencer Brown had a nice ending to the season. 
 

This year the Oline had a banged up and underperforming Spencer Brown, Bates regressed a bit to being an average player and the drop off from D Williams to Saffold was huge.

 

Give Josh two new starters along the Oline and a quality slot WR and I think the offense becomes more successful.

[Mikie2times]

20 hours ago, Big Turk said:

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

I don’t disagree with your general point but your statements about the Eagles need some context. The Bills would be in the SB if they played the same schedule as the Eagles. The defense folded the two or three times they played literally anybody. I mean look at the schedule for yourself. It’s incredible. Dak was the best they faced all year. Maybe Goff, until the SB. 

[Warriorspikes51]

KC acquired 4 new starters on their OLine a few years ago all in 1 offseason.
 

1 via Trade

1 via Signing

2 via Draft

& this is when they supposedly had limited cap space.

Buffalo MUST do the same. 

[Bulldog]

Admittedly - I have been away from this forum for quite a while (for personal reasons)- but when I read the title for this thread I thought it was going to be about Brittany Williams, lol.

[Ga boy]

11 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

Yeah but the 2 years prior it was Rams D and Bucs D that won for them. 

 

If Von didn't get hurt, I feel like Buffalo is doing the hoisting. Same with Tre year before. But who knows.

I can agree somewhat, but I hope management does not use that thinking to stay pat. Didn’t Levy say if you not getting better ….  We better do something on offense to get better.