Elephant in the Room

[IronyAbounds]

Most folks here are pointing to areas where the Bills need improvement: the OL (absolutely), the WR crew (quite possibly), the secondary (quite possibly), the DL (seems likely after yesterday, but it may depend on whether Miller returns at a high level), RB (I'm not as concerned here). One little problem - exactly where do the Bills find the resources to bring in upgrades to those positions. Free Agency? Given the money to keep Allen and bring in Miller, there simply isn't the money to bring in quality FAs. Draft picks? The Bills have six. Fortunately they didn't get rid of any picks in the first 5 rounds (and actually have two in the 5th round). But as we have seen, Beane hasn't exactly been the most astute GM when it comes to drafting, and in any event, rookies always have a learning curve.

 

Injuries indisputably took a huge toll this year, but it isn't like all those injured guys will simply be plugged back into their positions for next year. The defense was hit the hardest, but who knows how well Miller or Hyde will bounce back, plus they'll be a year older (Miller will be 34 and Hyde 33, not exactly spring chickens in the NFL). White certainly didn't seem like his old self this year. Hamlin (bless his soul) almost certainly won't be back, Poyer is likely gone and the rest of the secondary is meh at best. 

 

The offense wasn't hurt all that much by injuries, certainly not any more than is typical to an NFL team, so it's not as though they will be getting a difference maker back on offense. Most people seem to think the WR position is in need of upgrade, but if you spend resources in that area, how do you address the other positions that seem far more in need (OL and secondary). Same thought with the running backs. The OL is in need of a major overhaul, but again, the Bills really won't be able to spend much on any OL free agent. Will there be a quality lineman early in the draft? I hope so, but then what about the DL, the secondary, the wide receivers and running backs? Is it reasonable to expect Beane to suddenly become a master draftsman and be able to plug all the gaps with 6 draft picks? Past history suggests otherwise.

 

The Bills have had a remarkable run the past four years becoming one of the top teams in the league. For that I'm grateful. It's just difficult to see how they get over the hump given the current situation with the existing talent and somewhat crimped resources. I'll admit, when it comes to the Bills, my pessimism springs eternal. Hopefully I'm overstating the problems and minimizing the avenues that exist to improve the team.

[KDIGGZ]

Can the Elephant play OL?

[Back2Buff]

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

 

Will the guy put in the necessary work in offseason to understand defensive schemes and to throw with anticipation?  Or will he spend all offseason traveling and playing golf and just play back yard ball every year?

 

As soon as defenses pick up on what Allen does in a season, he doesn't adapt.  I question if he is smart enough to think as quick as the top guys do.

[BillsFanSD]

This isn't an elephant in the room -- we all know that the difficulty level gets dialed up now that Allens' contract kicks in and we have to make tough decisions about our own free agents.  

 

Going forward, the Bills are going to need to prioritize what they want to be good at and live with being weak someplace. But they need to be genuinely good at whatever they choose to emphasize.  In other words, we can't pour half a dozen draft picks and massive FA contracts into the DL and then have the DL be so-so.  They need to succeed at whatever they set out to succeed at.

 

Personally, I would feature the OL, and after that the WRs.  You have an all-world QB.  Build around him.  If that means that the defense becomes kind of average, that's okay.  

[ngbills]

Elephant is restructures and contracts you can get out of. Every other team does it so can we. 

[Robert Paulson]

1 minute ago, BillsFanSD said:

This isn't an elephant in the room -- we all know that the difficulty level gets dialed up now that Allens' contract kicks in and we have to make tough decisions about our own free agents.  

 

Going forward, the Bills are going to need to prioritize what they want to be good at and live with being weak someplace. But they need to be genuinely good at whatever they choose to emphasize.  In other words, we can't pour half a dozen draft picks and massive FA contracts into the DL and then have the DL be so-so.  They need to succeed at whatever they set out to succeed at.

 

Personally, I would feature the OL, and after that the WRs.  You have an all-world QB.  Build around him.  If that means that the defense becomes kind of average, that's okay.  

the defense is kind of average right now as it is

[BillsFanSD]

1 minute ago, Back2Buff said:

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

This is just stupid.  Come on, man.

[BillsFan130]

0 sense signing Edmunds and Poyer back.

 

Use that money and invest it in the O line and WRs.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

 

OL and WR early and often. Whatever position gets the 1st round pick also gets the 4th rounder. Use picks 2 & 3 on the other position. The defense has used up more than their fair share of resources over the last 6 years. If you can hold them, which they can't, then they'll have to outscore them.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

0 sense signing Edmunds and Poyer back.

 

Use that money and invest it in the O line and WRs.

 

 If I'm Buffalo I'm either keeping Edmunds or tagging and trading him. I wouldn't let him walk for free.

 

 

[BearNorth]

6 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Personally, I would feature the OL, and after that the WRs.  You have an all-world QB.  Build around him.  If that means that the defense becomes kind of average, that's okay.  

We got beat badly yesterday by a patchwork O-Line, with their best lineman playing dinged up.  Their offensive system puts constant pressure on the D and they have 3 receivers who would be 1 or 2 on any team in the league.  Burrow doesn't extend plays, he is so bloody efficient DC's heads are spinning.

 

We need better WR's than Davis as #2, and Diggs is < Chase IMHO, and has a shorter shelf life.

[Southern Bills Fan]

I do agree with you somewhat that rookies have a learning curve but we never seem to have impact rookies like other teams do. Our high round draft picks don't even see the field very much.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

13 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Elephant is restructures and contracts you can get out of. Every other team does it so can we. 

New Orleans says hi, perennially. 

[dorquemada]

15 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Personally, I would feature the OL, and after that the WRs.  You have an all-world QB.  Build around him.  If that means that the defense becomes kind of average, that's okay.  

 

After the last few weeks, i'd settle for and improvement to 'kind of average'

[Wayne Cubed]

11 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

 

Will the guy put in the necessary work in offseason to understand defensive schemes and to throw with anticipation?  Or will he spend all offseason traveling and playing golf and just play back yard ball every year?

 

As soon as defenses pick up on what Allen does in a season, he doesn't adapt.  I question if he is smart enough to think as quick as the top guys do.

 

This is actually laughable, did you even bother to check this?

Allen the 2nd half of the regular season:

15 pass TDs, 4 ints, 3 rushing TDs and 262 Total YPGs avg

Mahomes the 2nd half of regular season:
16 pass TDs, 5 ints, 3 rushing TDs and 282 Totatl YPG avg

Does Mahomes get figured out too?

[BillsFan130]

12 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

OL and WR early and often. Whatever position gets the 1st round pick also gets the 4th rounder. Use picks 2 & 3 on the other position. The defense has used up more than their fair share of resources over the last 6 years. If you can hold them, which they can't, then they'll have to outscore them.

 

 

 

 

 If I'm Buffalo I'm either keeping Edmunds or tagging and trading him. I wouldn't let him walk for free.

 

 

If you tag him it would cost over 20 mil. Cause guys like TJ watt who are considered “linebackers” Jack up the price tag.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

If you tag him it would cost over 20 mil. Cause guys like TJ watt who are considered “linebackers” Jack up the price tag.

 

 

 If they tagged him it would only be so he couldn't become a free agent. It's been done quite a bit where the team trading for the player works out a long range deal before the trade is finalized. But yeah I also didn't realize Watt & Von are considered LBers and not DEs. Would be very tough to keep him in that scenario.

 

 

 

 

[boater]

For all the people bemoaning Josh Allen's contract: developments this next off-season are going to make his contract look like a bargain.

 

Baltimore's outrageous resigning of LB Roquan Smith to a gargantuan contract is just a hint of the craziness this off-season will bring.

 

[GolfandBills]

Drafting has been mediocre.  A handful of nice hits but way too many high picks playing small roles.  Not good enough 

[JohninMinn.]

Elephant in the room is Edmunds is a huge bust. Look at the film.

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

New Orleans says hi, perennially. 

 

The Saints have gone 9-8 and 7-10 in the last 2 seasons in arguably the weakest division in the league.

I'm not so sure that's who the Buffalo Bills want to emulate. 

 

Restructuring is a tool that Beane has used in the past and will in the future, but I believe too many fans think it's some magic bullet. 

Tough decisions will have to be made.

[Nextmanup]

I'd be ALL IN FAVOR of somehow getting rid of Von Miller and his salary, if that's at all possible.

 

He was the fitting of the "last piece" to win a championship.  And that didn't happen.

We are now in retool mode, and need to build up again.

 

Von is not the sort of player this team needs, NOW.

 

 

 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

Tag n trade Edmunds, trade Oliver (he too little) restructure whoever you gotta restructure and then mainly just stack the offense for this year. Obviously both coordinators gotta go and if McD refuses he can go too. 

[Brian Higgins hair]

Personally IMO,

I think something is going on in Josh’s personal life that is making him into someone depressed.
No more walking the sidelines amping up the O line. 
No more Diggs, and tossing the ball 50 yards to gain three. 

[BillsFan130]

17 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 

 If they tagged him it would only be so he couldn't become a free agent. It's been done quite a bit where the team trading for the player works out a long range deal before the trade is finalized. But yeah I also didn't realize Watt & Von are considered LBers and not DEs. Would be very tough to keep him in that scenario.

 

 

 

 

Ya fair enough. It’s a dangerous game to play though cause if you can’t find a long term deal, then you are stuck paying him that amount and Edmunds would have the leverage in that

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ya fair enough. It’s a dangerous game to play though cause if you can’t find a long term deal, then you are stuck paying him that amount and Edmunds would have the leverage in that

 

 You try and secure a deal, in principle, before the tag deadline comes and goes? If not don't tag him. Just would suck to let him leave with nothing to show for it after spending a 1st rounder & the 1st pick of the 3rd to trade for him.

 

 

[iccrewman112]

54 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

0 sense signing Edmunds and Poyer back.

 

Use that money and invest it in the O line and WRs.

I also add trade Oliver so you are off the hook for his salary this upcoming season. And could get a high 3rd round pick for him.

 

There likely won’t be cash to resign him anyway if he plays well, so get the assets for him and invest in OL.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

26 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I'd be ALL IN FAVOR of somehow getting rid of Von Miller and his salary, if that's at all possible.

 

He was the fitting of the "last piece" to win a championship.  And that didn't happen.

We are now in retool mode, and need to build up again.

 

Von is not the sort of player this team needs, NOW.

 

 

 

 

Agree on all this but especially the bolded.  Retooling could take a couple years and next year's schedule is brutal at face value.  I'm preparing for a 9 or 10 win season next year, barely winning the division and being bounced in the first round. 

 

It is what it is.  Bills took their shot but now have to go back to the drawing board. 

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

 

Will the guy put in the necessary work in offseason to understand defensive schemes and to throw with anticipation?  Or will he spend all offseason traveling and playing golf and just play back yard ball every year?

 

As soon as defenses pick up on what Allen does in a season, he doesn't adapt.  I question if he is smart enough to think as quick as the top guys do.

R U serious?

 

Josh spends most of the time on the field running for his life thanks to a porous O-Line.  He's essentially left with busted plays because they turn into Josh having to create on the fly, which are not going to be high percentage plays.

 

If it weren't for Josh's mobility, the Bills probably set a new record for their QB getting sacked in a season.

[nosejob]

1 hour ago, JohninMinn. said:

Elephant in the room is Edmunds is a huge bust. Look at the film.

Also another elephant is that Beane needs to make a move now by firing Frazier. First, this is a fanbase driven business. I f he waits until March to make changes, then he's screwing our chances of getting a quality D.C. and staff put into place. If I'm him, I'm telling McExcuses, (btw his presser was as lame as it could possibly get),

 

I will honor your contract for one more year but Frazier is gone, deal with it.

[JMM]

2 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

This isn't an elephant in the room -- we all know that the difficulty level gets dialed up now that Allens' contract kicks in and we have to make tough decisions about our own free agents.  

 

Going forward, the Bills are going to need to prioritize what they want to be good at and live with being weak someplace. But they need to be genuinely good at whatever they choose to emphasize.  In other words, we can't pour half a dozen draft picks and massive FA contracts into the DL and then have the DL be so-so.  They need to succeed at whatever they set out to succeed at.

 

Personally, I would feature the OL, and after that the WRs.  You have an all-world QB.  Build around him.  If that means that the defense becomes kind of average, that's okay.  

THIS.

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

 

Will the guy put in the necessary work in offseason to understand defensive schemes and to throw with anticipation?  Or will he spend all offseason traveling and playing golf and just play back yard ball every year?

 

As soon as defenses pick up on what Allen does in a season, he doesn't adapt.  I question if he is smart enough to think as quick as the top guys do.

And the Allen haters are back, not that they ever left. It really is the off season.

[B-Large]

We may have to get creative and find a group of players that weren't "gassed" the week of a HOME PLAYOFF GAME....

 

I'm still stirred about that comment.  I don't want to talk about Elephants or Rooms yet.

Edited January 23, 2023 by B-Large

[Bad Things]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

 

Will the guy put in the necessary work in offseason to understand defensive schemes and to throw with anticipation?  Or will he spend all offseason traveling and playing golf and just play back yard ball every year?

 

As soon as defenses pick up on what Allen does in a season, he doesn't adapt.  I question if he is smart enough to think as quick as the top guys do.

 

Guys, I think we have a winner for the worst post of the year!

(And this year has been a banner year for idiotic posts.)

[iccrewman112]

2 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Tag n trade Edmunds, trade Oliver (he too little) restructure whoever you gotta restructure and then mainly just stack the offense for this year. Obviously both coordinators gotta go and if McD refuses he can go too. 

Im very much in agreement with all points on this. Not sure how a tag and trade works. All special teamers on non-minimum contracts need to be released as well (other than long snapper)

[Gunsgoodtime]

2 hours ago, IronyAbounds said:

Most folks here are pointing to areas where the Bills need improvement: the OL (absolutely), the WR crew (quite possibly), the secondary (quite possibly), the DL (seems likely after yesterday, but it may depend on whether Miller returns at a high level), RB (I'm not as concerned here). One little problem - exactly where do the Bills find the resources to bring in upgrades to those positions. Free Agency? Given the money to keep Allen and bring in Miller, there simply isn't the money to bring in quality FAs. Draft picks? The Bills have six. Fortunately they didn't get rid of any picks in the first 5 rounds (and actually have two in the 5th round). But as we have seen, Beane hasn't exactly been the most astute GM when it comes to drafting, and in any event, rookies always have a learning curve.

 

Injuries indisputably took a huge toll this year, but it isn't like all those injured guys will simply be plugged back into their positions for next year. The defense was hit the hardest, but who knows how well Miller or Hyde will bounce back, plus they'll be a year older (Miller will be 34 and Hyde 33, not exactly spring chickens in the NFL). White certainly didn't seem like his old self this year. Hamlin (bless his soul) almost certainly won't be back, Poyer is likely gone and the rest of the secondary is meh at best. 

 

The offense wasn't hurt all that much by injuries, certainly not any more than is typical to an NFL team, so it's not as though they will be getting a difference maker back on offense. Most people seem to think the WR position is in need of upgrade, but if you spend resources in that area, how do you address the other positions that seem far more in need (OL and secondary). Same thought with the running backs. The OL is in need of a major overhaul, but again, the Bills really won't be able to spend much on any OL free agent. Will there be a quality lineman early in the draft? I hope so, but then what about the DL, the secondary, the wide receivers and running backs? Is it reasonable to expect Beane to suddenly become a master draftsman and be able to plug all the gaps with 6 draft picks? Past history suggests otherwise.

 

The Bills have had a remarkable run the past four years becoming one of the top teams in the league. For that I'm grateful. It's just difficult to see how they get over the hump given the current situation with the existing talent and somewhat crimped resources. I'll admit, when it comes to the Bills, my pessimism springs eternal. Hopefully I'm overstating the problems and minimizing the avenues that exist to improve the team.

If we draft DL again someone needs to be put on notice.  If for nothing else, the failures of past draft capital and FA money spent on it has failed.  Accountability is becoming real imo.  How long can you have Josh Allen as your qb and you fail to make it to the SB without being fired?  Thats a serious question, then you add on all the draft failures on defense even adds more gas to the fire.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Can the Elephant play OL?

My friends and I have been discussing the possibility of training a cow from birth to play defensive tackle.

Imagine a cow stuffing the run, it'd be amazing. 

Yes, we did too many drugs in high school, and we use humor to mask our true feelings about how sad this whole situation really is. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by The Firebaugh Kid

[Chas56]

17 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

And the Allen haters are back, not that they ever left. It really is the off season.

I’ve been a fan for quite a while. During the early 90’s Super Bowl runs there was a certain percentage of fans that wanted Frank to start over Kelly. It’s nuts, but haters gotta hate.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

I’d love to have 5 elephants in the room and line them up in the O Line 

[John from Riverside]

We have a franchise QB contract to pay

 

Be prepared for these upgrades to come to the draft we’re gonna have to play younger guys now

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I'd be ALL IN FAVOR of somehow getting rid of Von Miller and his salary, if that's at all possible.

 

He was the fitting of the "last piece" to win a championship.  And that didn't happen.

We are now in retool mode, and need to build up again.

 

Von is not the sort of player this team needs, NOW.

 

 

 

 

Couldn’t disagree more there’s more than just his play to consider here

[Gunsgoodtime]

4 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

The elephant in the room is that Allen has been bottom tier the second half of the season and is getting paid elite money.

 

Will the guy put in the necessary work in offseason to understand defensive schemes and to throw with anticipation?  Or will he spend all offseason traveling and playing golf and just play back yard ball every year?

 

As soon as defenses pick up on what Allen does in a season, he doesn't adapt.  I question if he is smart enough to think as quick as the top guys do.

Its too bad he has to play against 11 people by himself 

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

0 sense signing Edmunds and Poyer back.

 

Use that money and invest it in the O line and WRs.

Unfortunately I feel like a cleaning of house is needed to accomplish this.  Go look at the posts showing OL and WR drafted since McDermott has been here