So what is the first coach or domino to fall?

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BRH said:

There’s some interesting bread crumbs in there if you care to look.  Especially about McD’s propensity to fall in love with certain players and not make changes until it’s too late. 

Can’t read it. Paywall. Can you provide the gist?

[78thealltimegreat]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Dorsey, after getting the endorsement of your franchise QB, just finished year one and improved on nearly every major stat vs 2021

 

He isn’t getting fired.  
 

Frazier, isn’t getting fired for losing Hyde, Miller, Hamlin, not having Tre White (80% of him) until December, or drafting AJ Epenessa and Boogie Basham.   

 

 

 

ESPN Headline behind their paywall:

 

”Bills title window is closed.”

 

Good.  Let’s go into the off season the actual underdogs we are and will be until we win a SB or reimagine our trenches to look like the Eagles - who would have annihilated us.  

I really don’t care if people pick the Bills last in the division. Maybe have everyone rag on this team the entire off season so Beane actually does something 

[Billz4ever]

8 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

A positional coach is not a big enough change up. it will have to be a coordinator. The only question is will it only be Frazier or will both get canned?

It SHOULD be both but in reality, it's most likely neither, even after getting thoroughly embarrassed in their own house on both sides of the ball. The score wasn't indicative of how big of a butt whoopin this actually was.

 

They would never answer such a question, but I would love to ask Beane...If the organization is going to stick with the current coaching staff and their coaching philosophy, what's going to be the difference maker that gets this team to the next level?

 

It's not like Beane himself doesn't have any culpability here...his misses in the early rounds of the draft are starting to pile up and we have little to nothing to show for those picks.

[mjt328]

It takes a very bold team to make major changes after a 13-3 season, and third straight division title.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Bills are that bold.  We probably have to wait another year.

 

My guess is they will spend the next 2-3 months convincing themselves (and much of the fanbase) that we just faced too much adversity over the course of the season (injuries, weather, Damar Hamlin), and they still have enough talent to compete for a title.  We will re-sign Tremaine Edmunds to a massive contract.  Beane will finally toss a draft pick at the O-Line.  There will be some optimism again.

 

The real question is whether the team totally implodes next season and completely misses the playoffs (Dolphins and Jets are both coming fast), or if we are destined for another quick playoff exit.

[Since1981]

Need to go outside for some change.

BUF can have a tendency to be a nepotism based. Josh should not be dictating coach hires. Input 'yes'.

I'm all for loyalty but there is a time and a place. This is not the time, nor the place.

The spike in new ideas from McD, Daboll is gone. 

 

Josh needs coaches that will are the next level offensive mind. Daboll really has proven. I don't recall anything from Dorsey that stood out this year. It seems hard to do, frankly.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Since1981

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

It SHOULD be both but in reality, it's most likely neither, even after getting thoroughly embarrassed in their own house on both sides of the ball. The score wasn't indicative of how big of a butt whoopin this actually was.

 

 

I'm 99.9% certain Frazier will be gone. It would be embarrassing for everyone to bring him back. 

 

Then the question becomes what gets McD canned next year? What our reasonable expectations for success next year? Does making the divisional round continue to save his job? Winning the division? Just making the playoffs?

[papazoid]

catch 22

 

before anyone gets fired......beane hoping they get the comp picks for another team hiring them

[Billz4ever]

8 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I'm 99.9% certain Frazier will be gone. It would be embarrassing for everyone to bring him back. 

 

Then the question becomes what gets McD canned next year? What our reasonable expectations for success next year? Does making the divisional round continue to save his job? Winning the division? Just making the playoffs?

Great questions.  Unfortunately, from my vantage point, I don't see any major changes coming as long as there's butts in seats and this team qualifies for the postseason.

 

Insanely long playoff droughts like this team went through can sort of lower the bar on expectations so that just getting to the postseason becomes acceptable.   If we had an owner who really cared about winning a SB, like Jerry Jones, McD is probably gone.  

Edited January 23, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Billz4ever]

9 hours ago, Billznut said:

When the head coach needs to deflect blame, coordinators get fired. Happens every year. Has happened multiple times in just the last few weeks, even from teams that made the playoffs. It definitely could happen. 

True, but with McD, I really don't see him doing that.  Just the type of guy he is, I can't see him throwing either Frazier or Dorsey under the bus to save his own skin.

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

True, but with McD, I really don't see him doing that.  Just the type of guy he is, I can't see him throwing either Frazier or Dorsey under the bus to save his own skin.

then he needs to go. This team needs a new OC and DC

[Billz4ever]

8 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Guys.. guys... guys...

 

is this defense not just mcdermotts defense? I mean really what do you think will change with our defensive philosophy if Frazier is fired? It's McDs defense and it always has been.  Firing frazier for doing what mcd ask him to do is basically a cop out.  

 

We all know McD isn't getting fired so, we may as well just get used to it=p
 

If that was my defense that got thoroughly embarrassed like that at home, I'd fire myself.

1 minute ago, nucci said:

then he needs to go. This team needs a new OC and DC

Yes, they do, but I just don't know if what happened yesterday is going to be enough to make that happen, even though it should be.

[PayDaBill$]

27 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

It takes a very bold team to make major changes after a 13-3 season, and third straight division title.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Bills are that bold.  We probably have to wait another year.

 

My guess is they will spend the next 2-3 months convincing themselves (and much of the fanbase) that we just faced too much adversity over the course of the season (injuries, weather, Damar Hamlin), and they still have enough talent to compete for a title.  We will re-sign Tremaine Edmunds to a massive contract.  Beane will finally toss a draft pick at the O-Line.  There will be some optimism again.

 

The real question is whether the team totally implodes next season and completely misses the playoffs (Dolphins and Jets are both coming fast), or if we are destined for another quick playoff exit.

Agree. Unfortunately the most likely scenario.

 

Our division is getting better too, you could also possibly see TB12 in Miami for a final run if Tua is done. I know TB12 isn’t liked here but ol’ Tommy, with all the talent Miami has is a scary scenario. And no I don’t believe he’s washed. All he’ll need to do manage the game & let everything just flow.

 

Things may have to get worse before anyone gets the broom.

Edited January 23, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[Billz4ever]

7 hours ago, TampaBillsJunkie said:

I'd love to see Frank back in Buffalo. He's a good coach, but a better OC.

 

Some people are saying Josh isn't taking what he's given, but like on the 4th down play yesterday, it looked to me like there weren't any short receivers that went to the sticks and basically everyone went to the endzone.

 

Even still...if Josh does like to get a little long ball happy at times, I think Reich would be the guy best suited to tame Josh and reel him back in if he gets in that mindset.  The playcalling I see from Dorsey seems to just feed Josh if he does get in that mode. It's like red meat. 

 

I think Dorsey did a decent job in his first season, but I think Josh's talent alone can make most coordinators look good. I'm just not of the opinion this is the time we need to be rolling the dice and hoping Dorsey gets better when we could potentially get someone like Reich with a great track record as an OC and who seems like a no-brainer fit in Buffalo. 

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

They’re not going to remove a rookie coordinator that their franchise QB likes it’s not happening

Josh could actually hate his guts but he's never going to say it.  That's not who he is. I've never heard Josh say a bad word about anyone. 

 

Heck, he even talks highly of Wilkins the package grabber.  

 

But you're right...they most likely stick with him, even though I'd rather have Reich there.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Billz4ever

[phypon]

Serious question:  How much time has to go by with no changes to know that they will not be firing anyone?  A few days, a week, 2 weeks?  What do you guys think is a de facto timeline here.  Also, I want to know when I should uncross my fingers and prevent further cramping.

[Billz4ever]

Just now, phypon said:

Serious question:  How much time has to go by with no changes to know that they will not be firing anyone?  A few days, a week, 2 weeks?  What do you guys think is a de facto timeline here.  Also, I want to know when I should uncross my fingers and prevent further cramping.

The more time that passes, the less likely it becomes that anyone is let go.  If 2 weeks passes and we've heard nothing, I think it's probably a safe bet that nobody is out.

[LeGOATski]

Just heard on the Locked On Bills podcast that Frazier's contract ended after this year.

[Billz4ever]

18 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Just heard on the Locked On Bills podcast that Frazier's contract ended after this year.

So he doesn't technically need to be fired.  Just not re-signed.

[Negan]

How did we get Kruger fired?? Might need some help 

[LeGOATski]

5 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

So he doesn't technically need to be fired.  Just not re-signed.

Yes, if it is true

[BillsfaninGa]

35 minutes ago, Negan said:

How did we get Kruger fired?? Might need some help 

Who's Kruger?

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, BillsfaninGa said:

Who's Kruger?

Offensive Line coach

[TC in St. Louis]

This team ran out of gas.  Maybe their emotions were drained by the Hamlin injury and aftermath.  They played poor yesterday...lacked passion.  They didn't get up for the game, while Cincinnati played intense, focused, professional football.

 

We have the ingredients to continue being a top team.  Josh is fantastic.  The OL needs a couple intense talents.  I think we should keep Edmunds, and get a new defensive strategy.  Elam and Trey are going to be fine.  Hyde will get a new partner.  Miller will return.  When Von was playing, our pass rush pressure rate was top 5, now it's #28 (not including yesterday).  Daquan would've made a difference.

 

Maybe trade Ed Oliver.  He's inconsistent.  

Like many of you, I have no idea what I'm talking about.  We all love the team.  This is the only thing I know.  

[msw2112]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

Great questions.  Unfortunately, from my vantage point, I don't see any major changes coming as long as there's butts in seats and this team qualifies for the postseason.

 

Insanely long playoff droughts like this team went through can sort of lower the bar on expectations so that just getting to the postseason becomes acceptable.   If we had an owner who really cared about winning a SB, like Jerry Jones, McD is probably gone.  

 

I hate Dallas and Jerry Jones, but they held on to Jason Garrett for quite a long time.  I guess we'll see about McCarthy.

[Drew21PA]

The “process” has had time

 

burn it

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Little chance anything major changes unless someone hires Frazier as HC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No one is going to hire Frazier as their HC.

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

I hate Dallas and Jerry Jones, but they held on to Jason Garrett for quite a long time.  I guess we'll see about McCarthy.

I'm no Jerry Jones fan either, but the point I was trying to make was he's an owner that is always involved with the team, who wants to win, and will do what he thinks he needs to do to make that happen.  I'm not sure Terry has that same commitment to try and win a championship.  He's always struck me as more of a guy who wants to field a competitive team, but doesn't show a lot of interest in trying to go beyond that.

 

Not nearly as bad as tightwad Wilson was, but also not a night and day difference either.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Billz4ever

[vtnatefootball11]

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

ESPN Headline behind their paywall:

 

”Bills title window is closed.”

 

Good.  Let’s go into the off season the actual underdogs we are and will be until we win a SB or reimagine our trenches to look like the Eagles - who would have annihilated us.  

 

Just FYI on this, that "headline" was an article with several mock headlines and then the ESPN writer commented whether each headline was an overreaction or not.  The gist for the Bills one was that it was an overreaction.  He said Bills have Allen and core relatively intact, small improvements are needed but they will have a chance year after year for foreseeable future.  We will probably still be a favorite next year as well.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

Possibly.. It would be  a very Billsey move if they feel Dorsey was good enough.
Does this franchise want to win? Or, is a terrible offense with key players like Diggs openly revolting the plan?

 

They are going to point to the 13 and three record in the regular season which they should do you can’t take one game and lose your ***** that’s what bad organizations do

[Bob in STL]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

They’re not going to remove a rookie coordinator that their franchise QB likes it’s not happening

 

Josh is in a comfort zone with Dorsey and as a result he is regressing.  Stats say the offense is top 2,3 4, in almost every category.  But you watch the games, especially the past month, and it looks like a very predictable offense that relies on Josh to be Superman and make a lot of big plays every game. 

 

This is something Allen just cannot maintain.   Burrow hit the high percentage passes to mostly wide open targets. He had time to throw accurately and provide the WR with a chance for YAC.  Josh was hurried and harassed so just getting a catchable ball out there was a challenge.  

 

I don't understand all the deep passes on 3rd and short?  Does Josh not check down on purpose or is this Dorsey?  It is not the way he played last year.  

 

I think Josh has regressed in his game management and his decisions making,  I have to look to Dorsey as the problem.  I would like to see Dorsey go.  

 

The mediocre OL makes everything harder, it starts there. 

 

[Robert Paulson]

12 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Little chance anything major changes unless someone hires Frazier as HC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

no one is hiring him- he is less wanted than Eric Bienamy 

[Gunsgoodtime]

If they dont start addressing the OL and Wrs and keep drafting/signing DL then McBean himself needs to start worrying. You have Josh ***** Allen as your Qb and refuse to give him the weapons he needs or protect him.  He was bloodied in the 1st quarter.  That is a a solid reason to get fired.  You got it right and hit on Josh Allen but have pretty much failed otherwise other than signing Diggs

Edited January 23, 2023 by Gunsgoodtime

[NeverOutNick]

I love McDermott as a leader and general all around human being but if I’m Beane I am seriously considering interviewing Sean Payton. We have a once in a generation talent in Josh Allen and our game management, inability to adjust and lack of creativity on both offense and defense is going to keep us where we’re at until a major move happens. I love our Bills culture and honestly don’t like Payton as a person but as far as what we need to get the most out of our team and franchise QB I think Beane has to be considering it. 

[somnus00]

Frazier's contact does not get renewed. Eric Washington fired. John Butler elevated to DC (my hope). I think Dorsey stays (I don't hope).

[vanhalen26]

First off, I do commend this team - they did well given the bizarre season they endured.  I stayed to the end yesterday just to applaud them for their effort.  I think the season finally caught up to them yesterday, it happens.

 

One change I support tho is moving on from Dorsey.  So many OCs can make a third string QB look good with an effective system and I just saw a lot of randomness and lack of creativity out of ours.  
 

Gonna be tough next year, we have cap realities to deal with and a pretty tough schedule.  I think next year might be a bit of a step back before we move forward again, sort of like the early Beane/McD years.  That would be a shame tho as Josh is hitting his prime.

[Gunsgoodtime]

5 hours ago, Brian Higgins hair said:

Possibly.. It would be  a very Billsey move if they feel Dorsey was good enough.
Does this franchise want to win? Or, is a terrible offense with key players like Diggs openly revolting the plan?

 

Offensive key players =Allen and Diggs and no one else.  Was talking with a Dallas fan last night and he said we don't have the firepower to complete with Cincy.  He was right.  McBean has failed to help Josh Allen at the expense of using high draft capital, Fa money to address the defense, which has also failed due to bad drafting.  The resources have been used there, the results have not been there, it has been a failure 

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

I'm no Jerry Jones fan either, but the point I was trying to make was he's an owner that is always involved with the team, who wants to win, and will do what he thinks he needs to do to make that happen.  I'm not sure Terry has that same commitment to try and win a championship.  He's always struck me as more of a guy who wants to field a competitive team, but doesn't show a lot of interest in trying to go beyond that.

 

Not nearly as bad as tightwad Wilson was, but also not a night and day difference either.

 

That makes sense and I see where you were coming from on this.  I would respectfully disagree, however.

 

Pegula has changed coaches and GMs several times with the Sabres and Bills.  He has invested to give his teams great facilities.  He signed off on his teams signing big-time free agents like Tayor Hall for the Sabres (which was a major flop) and Von Miller.  I think he wants to win just as badly as Jerry Jones, but I think he prefers to stay out of the media spotlight.  Jones thrives on being a big media personality.  I don't think Pegula is that kind of guy.

Edited January 23, 2023 by msw2112

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, msw2112 said:

 

That makes sense and I see where you were coming from on this.  I would respectfully disagree, however.

 

Pegula has changed coaches and GMs several times with the Sabres and Bills.  He has invested to give his teams great facilities.  He signed off on his teams signing big-time free agents like Tayor Hall for the Sabres (which was a major flop) and Von Miller.  I think he wants to win just as badly as Jerry Jones, but I think he prefers to stay out of the media spotlight.  Jones thrives on being a big media personality.  I don't think Pegula is that kind of guy.

I would like to agree with you and also ask Terry this question...If the organization is going to stick with the current coaching staff and their coaching philosophy, what's going to be the difference maker that gets this team to the next level?

[balln]

16 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I love McDermott as a leader and general all around human being but if I’m Beane I am seriously considering interviewing Sean Payton. We have a once in a generation talent in Josh Allen and our game management, inability to adjust and lack of creativity on both offense and defense is going to keep us where we’re at until a major move happens. I love our Bills culture and honestly don’t like Payton as a person but as far as what we need to get the most out of our team and franchise QB I think Beane has to be considering it. 

Never in a million years. Nola has his rights. You’d have to give up first and second round picks just to get him and then sign him to 20 mil a year. No way

[Bob in STL]

25 minutes ago, vanhalen26 said:

First off, I do commend this team - they did well given the bizarre season they endured.  I stayed to the end yesterday just to applaud them for their effort.  I think the season finally caught up to them yesterday, it happens.

 

One change I support tho is moving on from Dorsey.  So many OCs can make a third string QB look good with an effective system and I just saw a lot of randomness and lack of creativity out of ours.  
 

Gonna be tough next year, we have cap realities to deal with and a pretty tough schedule.  I think next year might be a bit of a step back before we move forward again, sort of like the early Beane/McD years.  That would be a shame tho as Josh is hitting his prime.

We can retool with Josh still in his prime but we cannot do a tear down and rebuild.  That would be too drastic.  They are 14-4, they need some tweaking to get back on track.  Beane has to do his best work to improve this team given the limited cap space and the draft position.  

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Just FYI on this, that "headline" was an article with several mock headlines and then the ESPN writer commented whether each headline was an overreaction or not.  The gist for the Bills one was that it was an overreaction.  He said Bills have Allen and core relatively intact, small improvements are needed but they will have a chance year after year for foreseeable future.  We will probably still be a favorite next year as well.

 

Ah and that’s how they get you to subscribe.  A bit of fake news in the headline.   
 

Still, they won’t be the favorite, and their window may not be closed with this group but fitting through it is getting a lot tighter.