Josh Allen Bashers, what's your solution?

[ChasBB]

7 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

He needs to fix the mistakes and not press. The deep pick and the handoff to Cook that josh should have kept were big mistakes. Tbh, he needs to relearn how to take checkdowns. It ok to take 5 yards a pop. That will open up the intermediate and deep game and negate the blitz

I would give it about one half of football with Josh throwing checkdowns for this fan base to give Allen the moniker of "Captain Checkdown".  Can't win.

[Hebert19]

He will be fine.  Run him 10 times next game.  When he's running he's more likely to take check downs based on history and he will be old Jan josh. 

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

Last year it felt like Brian was running the show, this year it feels like Josh is. And Josh is always going to take the less conservative route. We have no excuses for not scoring more. But he becomes impatient almost immediately and it costs us. 

How does he do it? Josh Allen's offense put up 34 points yesterday with three turnovers (call it 27 if you want to deduct 7 for not eating the fumble). Joe Burrows no interception team put up 17 points yesterday.  34 points should be sufficient to win most NFL games.  17 points is not.  

During the course of the season Burrows, Allen and Mahomes were all among league leaders in interceptions.  Why are these teams not cellar dwellers? 

The 1970's caveman mind set the is pervasive on this board seems to believe that a time consuming drive where they other team takes possession of the ball at their own 20 after a punt is a great offensive outcome, but a pick off in the endzone brought out to the 20 is an epic disaster.  In fact, these are identical outcomes.   Understanding that, is how you learn that a QB putting up 34 points with two interceptions had a good game (not great, but good).  

Edited January 16, 2023 by Chaos

[mjt328]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

My solution is we HAVE to stop turning the ball over. 

 

The OC needs to help him, but Josh needs to make better decisions. He said it himself after the game. He can't keep putting the team in bad positions. 

 

Last night was the full Josh Allen Experience. Incredible plays and bonehead mistakes. That is enough to get past a poor Miami team. But if you give Joe Burrow 7 points and another 4 short fields (2 on offense, 2 on STs) you will lose.  

 

The interception off Cole Beasley's hands was definitely not Josh's fault.

The fumble recovery/touchdown absolutely was his fault.  

The deep shot interception to John Brown is iffy.  Unclear if it was a bad throw, or receiver breaking off the route.

The sack/fumble (we thankfully recovered) was not his fault either, being a blindside hit to his arm.

 

My frustration with yesterday's game was more than just the turnovers.  It was the brazen attitude that if the Dolphins brought a blitz, we were going to throw it down the field and make them pay NO MATTER WHAT.  There was a sequence after the Dolphins made it a 3 point game in the 4th quarter.  This was the time for a slow/methodical touchdown drive, not a kill-shot.  Instead we took two deep shots down the sideline to Gabe Davis, and then got sacked.  Total wasted drive that immediately put our defense back on the field.

 

We barely escaped yesterday.  We have barely escaped games for most of the last 2-3 months.  That type of play isn't going to cut it anymore.  Our next three games (assuming we go that far), will likely be against the Top 3-5 teams in the entire NFL.  

 

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Didn't he make two? Back to back? Think Denver beat them.

 

You are right.  Beat the Patriots.  Lost to the Broncos.

[AlfaBill]

32 minutes ago, IndyMark said:

Are we sure Josh is still listening to Sinatra pre-game? If not, the Bills need to force this issue. 

 

PLAY. SINATRA. ON. LOOP. ONCE. ALLEN. ENTERS. THE. F#@$%ing BLDG.

 

It could be that simple.

Why did Josh seem nervous or something? The problem with yesterdays game was failure to adjust to what the fish were doing:blitz. All game Josh was looking deep. Some short passes or running the ball more often would have neutralized the blitz. I bet the Bengals bring it next week. 

[ProcessTruster]

"Release the Kraken" (ie.  designed JA runs).   

 

Dorsey held off on this tactic on the early downs this week, but it is coming.   

 

Get yer popcorn

[Punch]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I think Beane does not do the signing of the janitorial staff but I might be wrong.

He’d better if he wants to clean up all these mistakes!

[Seventeen]

7 hours ago, benderbender said:

I stopped going on Reddit for the very reason that every thread is a critique of others fandom or a take on someone else’s take. Sad to see it come to this forum to roost. 

 

Everyone on Reddit is an expert - TBD only has a few experts.

[KDIGGZ]

7 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 I agree, neither ints were on him. I still don't understand what Brown was doing. Good to get the wrinkles out in a win though.

 

That interception was completely on Josh. He just threw it up for grabs. That play wasn't supposed to go to Brown. He started scrambling then saw man to man on Brown (who had already stopped running the route) and threw up a prayer and the most shocked person on the field was Brown who then turned around and started running with no idea where the ball was in the air. The Dolphins db caught it like a punt returner. It was bad. Throw the ball out of bounds and live to play another down. Josh refuses to do that. Every play has to be a big play. Sometimes the best play is an incomplete pass or a check down for 5 yards

[John from Riverside]

18 minutes ago, ChasBB said:

I would give it about one half of football with Josh throwing checkdowns for this fan base to give Allen the moniker of "Captain Checkdown".  Can't win.

The thing is when Josh does it he looks really good at it but that’s not work. Josh really wants to do. Josh wants to get out there and score a touchdown in like three plays and he has the talent to do it

 

I would like to see games where he mixes it up. I thought we saw a little bit of that yesterday whenever he started hooking up with Cole Beasley. For some reason we are not using cook in that capacity, which I thought we were going to do much more of.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, H2o said:

I will say that the first INT was on Josh, even though John Brown messed up the route. Sometimes you just have to live to fight another down. Throw the ball away and keep it moving. In a sense, he tried to force it like he is prone to do at times. Howard made a play and it lit a fire under the Dolphins behinds.  

 

Yea that was on both of them. He didn't even need to throw it away... he had an easy 4 or 5 yards to Morris (it was 1st down) or a slightly harder throw but one that was there over the linebacker and infront of the safety for Knox on an outbreaker. They didn't need to take a shot. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by GunnerBill

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, KDIGGZ said:

That interception was completely on Josh. He just threw it up for grabs. That play wasn't supposed to go to Brown. He started scrambling then saw man to man on Brown (who had already stopped running the route) and threw up a prayer and the most shocked person on the field was Brown who then turned around and started running with no idea where the ball was in the air. The Dolphins db caught it like a punt returner. It was bad. Throw the ball out of bounds and live to play another down. Josh refuses to do that. Every play has to be a big play. Sometimes the best play is an incomplete pass or a check down for 5 yards

 

 I don't think he did stop running his route until the ball was I'm the air. If he did that's on Brown, you never quit running while the QB still has the ball, especially one with a big arm. The defense was daring him to throw deep and clogging up the middle and short parts of the field per people at the game. Just got to connect on more of those throws.

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

You know who else had worse turnover playoff #s AND still won the game?

 

Joe Burrow... 2021 Playoffs.

 

This was 1st time in 13 playoff games that Bills had this turnover ratio that they won. 

 

 

If it wasn't for the massive Howard return... The 1st INT was like a punt.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You know who else had worse turnover playoff #s AND still won the game?

 

Joe Burrow... 2021 Playoffs.

 

This was 1st time in 13 playoff games that Bills had this turnover ratio that they won. 

 

 

because we are blessed to have Josh Allen as QB. 

[KDIGGZ]

4 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 I don't think he did stop running his route until the ball was I'm the air. If he did that's on Brown, you never quit running while the QB still has the ball, especially one with a big arm. The defense was daring him to throw deep and clogging up the middle and short parts of the field per people at the game. Just got to connect on more of those throws.

 

On some plays the guy running long is not even part of the play, he's just running off his man deep so the underneath throw is open. That's what it looked like to me. John Brown was not expecting that ball, had already stopped running, and when the ball was thrown up he just started running deep not knowing where it was and it was the easiest interception the dolphins had all year

[Behindenemylines]

Where’s Peterman when you need him

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

On some plays the guy running long is not even part of the play, he's just running off his man deep so the underneath throw is open. That's what it looked like to me. John Brown was not expecting that ball, had already stopped running, and when the ball was thrown up he just started running deep not knowing where it was and it was the easiest interception the dolphins had all year

 

 

 You have to be ready at all times if you're a WR. Whether you think you're part of the play or not. That's a crap excuse. On top of that he ran the wrong route and he was already deep when Josh threw it, then broke for the sideline. What's he running a 40 yard out? Pretty sure that's on Brown.

 

 

 

 

[KDIGGZ]

At the end of the day, Josh is a 26 year old kid with the weight of the world on his shoulders and they are just turning him loose and saying go win us this game. It's not fair to him. He needs to play in more structure than just do whatever you can to get a first down.

 

The Dolphins ran almost all man-to-man and brought a lot of cover zero blitzes. That's why Josh was just throwing it deep play after play. They weren't calling the right man beater plays. If someone is coming at me with man to man and blitzes I'm hitting quick slants and screen passes to the RB. We heard how James Cook is this amazing receiver and they don't even throw him the ball. If it's man to man then put him on a LB and let him smoke him. What LB is keeping up with someone who runs a 4.3? Same with Hines. They have the players so it's just bad play calling 

1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 

 You have to be ready at all times if you're a WR. Whether you think you're part of the play or not. That's a crap excuse. On top of that he ran the wrong route and he was already deep when Josh threw it, then broke for the sideline. What's he running a 40 yard out? Pretty sure that's on Brown.

 

 

Josh was scrambling. At that point you abandon the play and just try and get open. That's why they have to play in more structure. You can't have one guy scrambling around thinking he can chuck it deep when the other guy isn't even thinking he's going to throw it to him 

[Chaos]

Can anyone complaining about the offensive result yesterday tell me how many points you expect the offense to score?

[Wraith]

15 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That interception was completely on Josh. He just threw it up for grabs. That play wasn't supposed to go to Brown. He started scrambling then saw man to man on Brown (who had already stopped running the route) and threw up a prayer and the most shocked person on the field was Brown who then turned around and started running with no idea where the ball was in the air. The Dolphins db caught it like a punt returner. It was bad. Throw the ball out of bounds and live to play another down. Josh refuses to do that. Every play has to be a big play. Sometimes the best play is an incomplete pass or a check down for 5 yards

It wasn’t a scramble. Allen was still in the pocket, having taken one step forward after finishing the drop. The ball came out on time. It was a totally routine play and low risk 1 on 1 downfield until Brown broke off the route. Not finishing on an anticipation route makes the quarterback look bad but it was Brown’s fault. CBS and Romo broke it down from the high angle camera view. 

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, Chaos said:

Can anyone complaining about the offensive result yesterday tell me how many points you expect the offense to score?

As many as the defense will allow. Why put a limit on it? If they keep all out blitzing and you are hitting your RB or WR for 5 yards every play then they will either stop blitzing or you are going to score 50 points 

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

As many as the defense will allow. Why put a limit on it? If they keep all out blitzing and you are hitting your RB or WR for 5 yards every play then they will either stop blitzing or you are going to score 50 points 

Defense allowed 34 yesterday. So the Bills achieved your goal. 

[ddaryl]

My biggest confusion was that we came out and started hitting the quick slants right off the bat... Then by series 2 that was thrown out the window..

I guess I fail to understand why we didn't stick with the quick passes and underneath stuff a little more... I've always want to see Allen master the underneath stuff because it a good way to keep opposing D's on heels a bit

 

the bottom line is by going long as much as we did tends to put ourselves behind the 8 ball if we don't hit and that's what happened... Nothing wrong with taking the underneath stuff and controlling the clock a little more

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by ddaryl

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The Dolphins defensive gameplan dictated that we throw the ball deep a lot. The problem is three deep throws bounced off the hands of Davis, Diggs, and Shakir, and on another one John Brown stopped running his route and it got picked. That's too many missed opportunities. We honestly should have scored like 50 points in this game and that's only because of Allen's arm talent.

Finally someone speaks the truth!

[Captain_Quint]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Can anyone complaining about the offensive result yesterday tell me how many points you expect the offense to score?

More about clock control than anything else.

[KDIGGZ]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Defense allowed 34 yesterday. So the Bills achieved your goal. 

They didn't because Miami was HIGHLY successful in their blitzing causing 3 turnovers and 7 sacks

[Seventeen]

33 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Why did Josh seem nervous or something? The problem with yesterdays game was failure to adjust to what the fish were doing:blitz. All game Josh was looking deep. Some short passes or running the ball more often would have neutralized the blitz. I bet the Bengals bring it next week. 

 

Josh was looking deep b/c guys were open - barely missed Diggs in the 1st quarter, drop by Shakir, TD to Gabe, near TD to Diggs, last 2 to Gabe just barely overthrown. Was Brown open on the INT - yes, if the ball had been thrown a few yards farther might have been a TD.

 

In hindsight, should he have been looking at the 15-20 yards routes or checkdowns ... sure. We also don't know what Dorsey called. 

     

Edited January 16, 2023 by Seventeen

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, KDIGGZ said:

They didn't because Miami was HIGHLY successful in their blitzing causing 3 turnovers and 7 sacks

I am 100 percent certain the Miami defense allowed the Bills to score 34 points yesterday.  

[K-9]

25 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

That interception was completely on Josh. He just threw it up for grabs. That play wasn't supposed to go to Brown. He started scrambling then saw man to man on Brown (who had already stopped running the route) and threw up a prayer and the most shocked person on the field was Brown who then turned around and started running with no idea where the ball was in the air. The Dolphins db caught it like a punt returner. It was bad. Throw the ball out of bounds and live to play another down. Josh refuses to do that. Every play has to be a big play. Sometimes the best play is an incomplete pass or a check down for 5 yards

Watch that play again. There was no scrambling, Josh stepped up in a crowded pocket and launched it. It wasn't something they improvised like last week against the Pats***. Allen didn’t get enough on the throw. 

[BillsFanSD]

I thought Allen played extremely well yesterday.  His receivers let him down with huge drops, neither pick was his fault, and while he should have just eaten that sack it would also be nice if linemen blocked a bit better.  His one legitimate mistake was trying to do too much on a play that we've seen him manufacture brilliance on before.  That's acceptable. 

 

The deep shots during "that" part of the game were annoying, but they were there for the taking.  I don't know whether that was Dorsey pushing, Allen pushing, or just everybody taking what the defense was giving us, but it's not like they were forcing the ball into double coverage or anything.  Those were favorable matchups.

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The second INT is not on Josh, that is on Beasley. The first one.... I don't think it is a great read and he just kinda throws it up. It is the sort of play to be fair that I don't mind Josh making because he will get some big plays on those over the course of time. But I think in the context of the game it was the wrong decision. It was a layered route where the Bills have three guys running different depths to the same side of the field. It is first down. He can go to Morris for a short gain of an easy 4 or 5 yards, he can get the ball over the linebacker for Knox on the out breaker in the intermediate zone (which I think was the primary read) or he can try the deep shot 1v1. I think between Dorsey and Allen they took that third option too much yesterday and it made the offense very boom or bust and mistake prone. In the scenario, up 17-3 against a QB struggling to move the ball the Bills should have just kept taking the easy stuff rather than trying to force the ball downfield. 

 

EDIT: should also say none of the above exonerates John Brown who Romo was right, didn't run the route properly. But it is partly on Josh because I think it is the wrong read. It was getting greedy when they didn't need to. 

 

My issue with this mindset is that a 17 point lead in the 2nd quarter isn't enough to completely take your foot off the gas pedal. There are always shorter options available on deep completions. But if Allen's read tells him the deep throw is there, he's going to take it. This wasn't like the interception in the Bears game where he forced a throw into double coverage. If John Brown finished his route either a deep completion was there to be had or they would move on to 2nd and 10. And then none of us would be sitting here talking about Allen forcing the throw. Maybe on Shakir's deep pass that he dropped there were shorter options available but everyone seems to agree Allen made a good read there despite that also being a situation where we were up 17 points. Ultimately the receiver has to hold up his end of the bargain too.

 

I don't ever want Allen walking up to the line with the mindset of "I don't trust that my guy is going to make the play that is there." When that's his mindset is career is over. Instead of asking Allen to change his entire style we should probably just get receivers that can run downfield routes and catch the ball when it hits their hands. That's my take on it. This whole "why doesn't Allen check the ball down more?" narrative that has popped up this year is, to me, an excuse people use instead of acknowledging the real problem which is that our pass catchers just haven't been good enough this year. And that's how you end up with two past their prime off-the-street WRs making critical mistakes in a playoff game that lead to turnovers.

 

And we have a great counterexample of this point from the games this weekend - the Chargers went up 27-0 and tried dinking and dunking their way to victory. That strategy allowed an inferior opponent to get back into the game and win.

[hemma]

Unless in a throwing motion, 2 hands on the ball.

If on the run, at least tuck the ball like a ball carrier.

[KDIGGZ]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I am 100 percent certain the Miami defense allowed the Bills to score 34 points yesterday.  

And if it was a better team they would have scored 40 on us. Luckily half of Miami's starters were out and they were using their 3rd string QB who had an ok game but not great

[78thealltimegreat]

8 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Welp, I've been reading up on the board, and it looks like Allen had another TERRIBLE GAME, with the Bills winning DESPITE HIM for the 8th game in a row. 

 

3 Fumbles!  2 INTS!  Completions under 60%!  This guy is a liability. 

 

BAD JOSH!  I'm tired of HERO BALL.  The ARM ARROGANCE.  352 Yards with long shots to Diggs, Davis and Shakir just don't make up for it. Neither does the perfectly placed TD pass to Knox.  Or the timely run to pick up a key 1st down.  This guy does not deserve a roster spot, let alone a game ball. 

 

It's time to get Keenum and Barkley ready to go for next week, because they RESPECT BALL SECURITY.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

Without Josh this team is so talent deficient at the skill positions they’d be in the Bryce Young sweepstakes 

Edited January 16, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[GunnerBill]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

My issue with this mindset is that a 17 point lead in the 2nd quarter isn't enough to completely take your foot off the gas pedal. There are always shorter options available on deep completions. But if Allen's read tells him the deep throw is there, he's going to take it. This wasn't like the interception in the Bears game where he forced a throw into double coverage. If John Brown finished his route either a deep completion was there to be had or they would move on to 2nd and 10. And then none of us would be sitting here talking about Allen forcing the throw. Maybe on Shakir's deep pass that he dropped there were shorter options available but everyone seems to agree Allen made a good read there despite that also being a situation where we were up 17 points. Ultimately the receiver has to hold up his end of the bargain too.

 

I don't ever want Allen walking up to the line with the mindset of "I don't trust that my guy is going to make the play that is there." When that's his mindset is career is over. Instead of asking Allen to change his entire style we should probably just get receivers that can run downfield routes and catch the ball when it hits their hands. That's my take on it. This whole "why doesn't Allen check the ball down more?" narrative that has popped up this year is, to me, an excuse people use instead of acknowledging the real problem which is that our pass catchers just haven't been good enough this year. And that's how you end up with two past their prime off-the-street WRs making critical mistakes in a playoff game that lead to turnovers.

 

And we have a great counterexample of this point from the games this weekend - the Chargers went up 27-0 and tried dinking and dunking their way to victory. That strategy allowed an inferior opponent to get back into the game and win.

 

But I don't think the play was designed to Brown. He was a decoy intended to clear out the safety. Josh just sees the safety squat on Knox across the middle sees JB 1v1 and thinks "why not?" and Brown isn't expecting the ball. Partly on the receiver, no doubt, and it isn't about throwing deep vs throwing short it is about contextualised decision making. I don't think that one was a smart decision in the context of the game or in the context of the way that play looked like it was designed to work. 

[Meatloaf63]

5 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Finally someone speaks the truth!

No, that was one option, and one should always be stretching the field. But a heavy blitz dictates that the other routes should be short to medium with an outlet receiver. The long route means blocks have to hold up against the blitz and obviously they consistently were not, as evidenced when you give up 7 sacks. One of which resulted in 7 pts for the opponent. The phins never stopped blitzing because the didn’t have too, we never consistently made them pay. Whether that’s on Dorsey and play design or Allen’s lack of execution we will have to watch the all 22 to have a better understanding. Yes we scored 34 pts and yes we win, but this should not have been in doubt till the last 2 minutes…

[Buffalo ill]

People get very defensive over any criticism of their favorite young millionaires, who don't know they even exist.  With that said, Allen amazing with a handful of wtf decisions sprinkled in at unfortunate moments.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

My solution? the coaches go over the turnovers and point out what EVERYONE could have done better then move on. Fans worry that it will happen the next game exactly the same way and there's no way we're beating Joe Burrow if we do that. Mark my words the Bengals should worry that if those plays don't happen they're in trouble.

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But I don't think the play was designed to Brown. He was a decoy intended to clear out the safety. Josh just sees the safety squat on Knox across the middle sees JB 1v1 and thinks "why not?" and Brown isn't expecting the ball. Partly on the receiver, no doubt, and it isn't about throwing deep vs throwing short it is about contextualised decision making. I don't think that one was a smart decision in the context of the game or in the context of the way that play looked like it was designed to work. 

 

We don't know what the read was. It could be that Allen is supposed to throw the deep ball in 1v1 no matter what. It happened enough times in this game that I have to think that is the case. My point is that if Brown just finishes his route no one would be sitting here today saying Allen forced the throw. Every decision looks stupid when it doesn't work.

[davefan66]

I would like to see more ball control offense when we have a lead.  Sprinkle in some passes when needed, and to keep the defense off the LOS.

 

I like the idea of “keeping your foot on the pedal”.  Not needed yesterday though.  Had a  young QB on the ropes, just needed run the ball and run the clock.