We're onto Miami(Miami's headed to Buffalo)...opening line BUF -10! Game at 1:05 PM SUN 1/15

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

Probably means that some team tried to poach him from our PS so we had to elevate him to the 53

 

No - McKenzie came up with a Hamstring and was limited in practice.

 

This allows you to have an entire healthy WR room and sit McKenzie to get the hamstring healthy.

 

 

[jletha]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's a possibility, but he was looking pretty lively in the video clilps that came out from practice - and again, Beane would not need to make this move until Saturday, when there are two more days of practice and three more days of treatment to look at

 

 

McK was not at practice today.

[Beck Water]

 

Not liking this news at all.  Tim Settle has been a sneaky good DLman.  A stout DL generating pressure up the middle is one reason for improved pass rush results this season, and now we're down 2 guys.

 

Also McKenzie from "limited" to potentially "DNP" is not a good sign.  McKenzie has historically had some good games for us against Miami

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, jletha said:

McK was not at practice today.

 

The small part that the media saw, anyway.  We'll see.

From yesterday.  Looks like just having Hyde back on the field is a lift for the secondary's spirits

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Not liking this news at all.  Tim Settle has been a sneaky good DLman.  A stout DL generating pressure up the middle is one reason for improved pass rush results this season, and now we're down 2 guys.

 

Also McKenzie from "limited" to potentially "DNP" is not a good sign.  McKenzie has historically had some good games for us against Miami

What happened with McKenzie, went into practice yesterday healthy, got hurt in practice and landed into the limited category. 

 

Now today he is not practicing.

 

Bills were already playing a short rotation at DT with Phillips not close to 100%. 

[RiotAct]

6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What happened with McKenzie, went into practice yesterday healthy, got hurt in practice and landed into the limited category. 

 

Now today he is not practicing.

 

Bills were already playing a short rotation at DT with Phillips not close to 100%. 

Mr. Bryant, come on down!!!

[Warcodered]

 

[Toledo Bill]

8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What happened with McKenzie, went into practice yesterday healthy, got hurt in practice and landed into the limited category. 

 

Now today he is not practicing.

 

Bills were already playing a short rotation at DT with Phillips not close to 100%. 

At least our 2 best defensive tackles are healthy, but I wonder how they handle the rotation if Settles is out. Phillips has not been productive as of late (injury).

[Rochesterfan]

11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What happened with McKenzie, went into practice yesterday healthy, got hurt in practice and landed into the limited category. 

 

Now today he is not practicing.

 

Bills were already playing a short rotation at DT with Phillips not close to 100%. 

 

Per the reports - he tweaked a Hammy.

 

I would expect him out this week and hence the Beasley call up.

 

Gives them multiple people at Slot - although Shakir was already seeing a nice increase in workload.

 

 

[zow2]

Fortunately the weather is finally not in terrible Orchard Park this weekend.  It's in San Francisco with heavy rains and very windy for their game vs. Seattle.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 minutes ago, Toledo Bill said:

At least our 2 best defensive tackles are healthy, but I wonder how they handle the rotation if Settles is out. Phillips has not been productive as of late (injury).

I wonder if we'll get reporting from Sal or others on if Settle was limping, or if they were checking knee/shoulder. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

Probably a lot more nuanced than run or pass to win. Although game plans featuring runs to manage the clock and keep an offense off the field are still viable.

 

I think the Rams were close to leading the league in play-action % and runs when they had Goff, but Goff is a QB who likes to operate under center and does not excel at off schedule throws or extending plays.

 

Running the ball and play-action works for him.

 

When the Rams acquired Stafford their use of runs and play action dropped considerably as Stafford has more comfort operating with empty sets and from the shotgun.

 

Detroit has done the opposite with Goff incorporating more runs and passes out of the same sets and had some success this year.

 

So they have an increase in play-action passes for Goff, keep throws on schedule, and have added a bit more depth to those passes to help better move the chains.

 

Play action (IMO) is not nearly as effective out of the shotgun which we use a lot, but we also have a very mobile QB which opens up RPO's which neither Stafford or Goff would pull off very effectively as defenses don't really fear them as runners.

 

Good points but one caveat on the last one:

 

RPO in the original sense "run pass option" need not involve the QB, correct?  It technically just involves a running back and a passing threat

 

I think you're talking about a so called "triple option" or "triple threat" RPO, where the QB can either hand off, pass, or keep it himself and run (which does indeed require a mobile QB who presents a run threat.

 

27 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What happened with McKenzie, went into practice yesterday healthy, got hurt in practice and landed into the limited category. 

 

Now today he is not practicing.

 

Bills were already playing a short rotation at DT with Phillips not close to 100%. 

 

Sounds like he must have injured his hammy during practice yesterday.  Sucks that we might not have him available as an emergency DB.

 

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

No - McKenzie came up with a Hamstring and was limited in practice.

 

This allows you to have an entire healthy WR room and sit McKenzie to get the hamstring healthy.

 

The thing is, Beane had no need to make this move today.  He could make it on Saturday.

 

That's why I think it may be strategic.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[nucci]

16 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Good points but one caveat on the last one:

 

RPO in the original sense "run pass option" need not involve the QB, correct?  It technically just involves a running back and a passing threat

 

I think you're talking about a so called "triple option" or "triple threat" RPO, where the QB can either hand off, pass, or keep it himself and run (which does indeed require a mobile QB who presents a run threat.

 

 

Sounds like he must have injured his hammy during practice yesterday.  Sucks that we might not have him available as an emergency DB.

 

 

you're concerned because McKenzie may not be able to play DB? How many injuries are you expecting?

[Beck Water]

Just now, nucci said:

you're concerned because McKenzie may not be able to play DB? How many injuries are you expecting?

 

It was a joke.  But the Bills actually did put him in at DB during the season finale against the Jets in 2019.  And Cheetah "warned" the Bills to "warm up those hamstrings" while McK is one of the players on the team who would have a shot to run with him

 

I get it, a joke ya gotta explain aint funny

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

it was a joke

ooops, sorry. i'm old

Edited January 12, 2023 by nucci

[Rochesterfan]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Good points but one caveat on the last one:

 

RPO in the original sense "run pass option" need not involve the QB, correct?  It technically just involves a running back and a passing threat

 

I think you're talking about a so called "triple option" or "triple threat" RPO, where the QB can either hand off, pass, or keep it himself and run (which does indeed require a mobile QB who presents a run threat.

 

 

Sounds like he must have injured his hammy during practice yesterday.  Sucks that we might not have him available as an emergency DB.

 

 

The thing is, Beane had no need to make this move today.  He could make it on Saturday.

 

That's why I think it may be strategic.

 

Why would it matter today versus Saturday?  
 

You have an injury to McKenzie who is DNP and not practicing - you know you need to bring up a WR and a DL - this gets him involved and active 100%.

 

Since we are in the playoffs - there is no longer a cost to brining him up.

 

He already walked off the TB team and has stated this was the only place he was coming back to - so I don’t really see a strategy or another team trying to take him.

 

I see an injury that is taking out your starter and you activating his replacement giving you maximum flexibility come this weekend.

 

Maybe I am wrong, but nothing suggests he was going anyplace and they needed this action and everything suggests the injury sustained by McK yesterday in practice makes this move required to provide WR slot depth.

 

 

[wjag]

2 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Miami has got to try to manufacture points elsewhere - defense and special teams. Bill's offense needs to protect the ball and our special teams needs to play sound. I wouldn't be surprised to see Waddle and/or Hill returning kicks/punts. Without points from defense/ST, I don't see how Miami can win this game.

 
I get the sentiment, but are you really willing to risk a serious collision for 10 extra yards?

[Beck Water]

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

Why would it matter today versus Saturday?

 

Because it's "tipping your hand" offensively as to what game plan intentions may be

 

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

You have an injury to McKenzie who is DNP and not practicing - you know you need to bring up a WR and a DL - this gets him involved and active 100%.

 

First of all...I don't think we even know yet that McK DNP'd.  He wasn't out there during the media portion of practice, but it's not unprecedented for players the media didn't see to be listed as DNP

 

Do you really think that players on the PS aren't "involved and active 100%" without being officially elevated, especially if they know they're in the game plan?

 

 

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

Maybe I am wrong, but nothing suggests he was going anyplace and they needed this action and everything suggests the injury sustained by McK yesterday in practice makes this move required to provide WR slot depth.

 

Flip it around...even if this move is required, why does the GM make it now and not Saturday?  Why tip off the Dolphins that maybe McKenzie's injury is significant and he'll be inactive?  Why not leave them guessing?

 

 

[The Wiz]

They sound optimistic.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by The Wiz

[Steptide]

Probably posted already, but I just saw it. Be interesting to see how much mckenzie being out has an effect 

 

 

[Warcodered]

28 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

They sound optimistic.

 

 

Jokes on them, he'd just get a ride with Squirrell Winters instead.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Brandin Bryant for sure

 

But there's a numbers game for the game-day actives. 

 

A typical game-day roster would feature

2 QB

8 OL

5 RB (including Taiwan Jones)

2 TE

5 WR

4 Edge

4 DT

6 LB

9 DB (3 safeties, 3 CB, 1 "switch", 1 nickel CB, 1 dime CB)

3 specialists

 

So if, for example, we want to have 6 WR active, we need to take a spot from another position group

 

 

Why do they do 6 LBers when we only put two on the field? I would guess they can drop one of those if they wanted to have 6 receivers.

[ColoradoBills]

Like @SectionC3said in the Beasley thread, the Bills are going to need to call up Beasley, Brown and a DT this week.

They can only elevate 2 from the PS so someone has to get signed to the 53.

 

The Bills only have 4 WR on their active roster so signing another WR to the 53 is no big deal.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Haha I loved the end of that.

[Chandler#81]

Dolphins, Bills in Playoffs? Been there. Done them. Got the T-shirt. -but it no longer fits..

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Chandler#81

[Rochesterfan]

53 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Because it's "tipping your hand" offensively as to what game plan intentions may be

 

 

First of all...I don't think we even know yet that McK DNP'd.  He wasn't out there during the media portion of practice, but it's not unprecedented for players the media didn't see to be listed as DNP

 

Do you really think that players on the PS aren't "involved and active 100%" without being officially elevated, especially if they know they're in the game plan?

 

 

 

Flip it around...even if this move is required, why does the GM make it now and not Saturday?  Why tip off the Dolphins that maybe McKenzie's injury is significant and he'll be inactive?  Why not leave them guessing?

 

 

 

Not really tipping your hand - McK pulled a hammy yesterday in practice - basically since then every Buffalo reporter has basically been saying he will not practice and based upon how the Bills treat soft tissue and muscle pulls - he will be out this weekend and depending on how bad it is maybe limited or out next week.

 

The Bills will have to list him on the injury report - so how big of a surprise that your slot guy can’t go would it be for the Bills to call up the PS slot guy that has done it before. 
 

Why hide it at this point.  The Bills are going to start and play the veteran slot guy and use Shakir as his back-up.  
 

We are beyond the larger salary cap situation- so the call up doesn’t impact that.

 

I could understand for a physical issue - Phillips shoulder - that maybe you want to keep that close as he may or may not play, but a pure speed guy like McK with a pulled Hammy - they are not going to risk that when they have a player like Cole ready to go.

 

As to the question of are PS players as invested - it depends on the player - most of them are only seeing time right now as scout duty, but activating a guy like Cole also tells the team - here is what we expect and who will be doing what.

 

I don’t think McD at this point is trying to figure out how to trick the Dolphins - he is ready just line us up and go play - we are the better team and have been in both meetings.

 

 

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Because it's "tipping your hand" offensively as to what game plan intentions may be

 

 

First of all...I don't think we even know yet that McK DNP'd.  He wasn't out there during the media portion of practice, but it's not unprecedented for players the media didn't see to be listed as DNP

 

Do you really think that players on the PS aren't "involved and active 100%" without being officially elevated, especially if they know they're in the game plan?

 

 

 

Flip it around...even if this move is required, why does the GM make it now and not Saturday?  Why tip off the Dolphins that maybe McKenzie's injury is significant and he'll be inactive?  Why not leave them guessing?

 

 

And now it is official - DNP for McK - just as reported in the section the reporters watch.

 

 

[Nineforty]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

I've had this feeling that Bridgewater will be the QB since McDaniel's weird comment about Teddy's recovery/availability for Sunday.  

This comment about significant handshake work is the first actual datapoint or anecdote that lends credence to this that I've seen..

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Not really tipping your hand - McK pulled a hammy yesterday in practice - basically since then every Buffalo reporter has basically been saying he will not practice and based upon how the Bills treat soft tissue and muscle pulls - he will be out this weekend and depending on how bad it is maybe limited or out next week.

 

The Bills will have to list him on the injury report - so how big of a surprise that your slot guy can’t go would it be for the Bills to call up the PS slot guy that has done it before. 
 

Why hide it at this point.  The Bills are going to start and play the veteran slot guy and use Shakir as his back-up.  
 

And now it is official - DNP for McK - just as reported in the section the reporters watch.

 

 

 

Just a little note that the section the reporters watched featured Tim Settle being attended by trainers and helped off - yet he isn’t listed as limited.  So I don’t think one should rely 100% on what the reporters see as gospel.  They’re good at reporting what they see, but players do spend more time getting treatments then come out and join practice.  The Bills have also reported hammies and groin injuries that have not caused players to lose time as well as hammies that have kept players out 3 weeks.  So I’d say we don’t know which this is, at this point.

 

As far as early Bease elevation “tipping a hand”, I feel that I’ve spelled out why I think that and with all respect, you’re doing the “lalalal not listening” thing, so I’m out.  I”ll just point out once again that there is a large vocabulary of plays that Beasley used to run, that got taken out of the Bills playbook early in this season.

 

There are also a number of plays McKenzie runs that Beasley really can’t at this point - but Shakir could theoretically manage most of those and Hines many of the rest

 

4 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

 

I've had this feeling that Bridgewater will be the QB since McDaniel's weird comment about Teddy's recovery/availability for Sunday.  

This comment about significant handshake work is the first actual datapoint or anecdote that lends credence to this that I've seen..

 

What does “handshake work” mean?  I’ve never heard that term

 

Says he was not seen throwing

 

 

 

Are they talking literally, handshakes, like Josh Allen’s handshakes with his crew?

Edited January 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

 

I've had this feeling that Bridgewater will be the QB since McDaniel's weird comment about Teddy's recovery/availability for Sunday.  

This comment about significant handshake work is the first actual datapoint or anecdote that lends credence to this that I've seen..

You sure? kind of sounds the opposite to me and he even stated in a follow up tweet.  Sounds like he literally meant working on handshakes.

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by The Wiz

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

RPO in the original sense "run pass option" need not involve the QB, correct?  It technically just involves a running back and a passing threat

You’ve lost me here. An RPO play literally involves the QB every time because he is the one that determines which option to choose. 

[Albwan]

22 hours ago, rusty shackleford said:

 

wat a dork 

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

You’ve lost me here. An RPO play literally involves the QB every time because he is the one that determines which option to choose. 

What still confuses me is how they call Josh's RPO's "RPOs".  A lot of the time it's a fake hand off to the RB and then Josh runs it.  More of an RRO than an RPO even though they do actual RPOs the same way.  Is that really an RPO or does it have a different name that they just don't say?

[Beck Water]

36 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Why do they do 6 LBers when we only put two on the field? I would guess they can drop one of those if they wanted to have 6 receivers.

 

Good question, and I’m really not sure at this point

Dodson and Matakevich are core ST’ers

I think right now Klein would be the guy who comes in if we play a base D, but it might be Dodson

 

Anyone got the code here?

[Nineforty]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just a little note that the section the reporters watched featured Tim Settle being attended by trainers and helped off - yet he isn’t listed as limited.  So I don’t think one should rely 100% on what the reporters see as gospel.  They’re good at reporting what they see, but players do spend more time getting treatments then come out and join practice.  The Bills have also reported hammies and groin injuries that have not caused players to lose time as well as hammies that have kept players out 3 weeks.  So I’d say we don’t know which this is, at this point.

 

As far as early Bease elevation “tipping a hand”, I feel that I’ve spelled out why I think that and with all respect, you’re doing the “lalalal not listening” thing, so I’m out.  I”ll just point out once again that there is a large vocabulary of plays that Beasley used to run, that got taken out of the Bills playbook early in this season.

 

There are also a number of plays McKenzie runs that Beasley really can’t at this point - but Shakir could theoretically manage most of those and Hines many of the rest

 

 

What does “handshake work” mean?  I’ve never heard that term

 

Says he was not seen throwing

 

 

 

Are they talking literally, handshakes, like Josh Allen’s handshakes with his crew?

 

Yeah, I took it to mean literal handshakes. And laugh away (I am slightly at myself lol) but I still think if you are trying to get back onto the field and you have a pinky that is hurt in any way, you are not doing intricate handshakes with teammates. 

 

and the "not seen throwing during media viewing portion of drills" doesn't really mean anything to me. I know it's reported a lot about injured QB's, but I see that as a way coaches/teams could try to be setting up smokescreens. 

[Mark Vader]

9 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

Pick 6 and scoop N Score are way better 

Pick 6 sounds like a lottery.

 

Scoop N Score sounds like an ice cream sundae.

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

You’ve lost me here. An RPO play literally involves the QB every time because he is the one that determines which option to choose. 

 

Fine “does not involve the QB as an option to carry the ball”, does that help?  

 

The point is the OP to which I was responding indicated an RPO could not be run effectively if the QB is not a proficient runner.  But they can.

 

https://footballadvantage.com/rpo-football/

 

They just gain another dimension when the QB can also run,

[MILFHUNTER#518]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Brandin Bryant for sure

 

But there's a numbers game for the game-day actives. 

 

A typical game-day roster would feature

2 QB

8 OL

5 RB (including Taiwan Jones)

2 TE

5 WR

4 Edge

4 DT

6 LB

9 DB (3 safeties, 3 CB, 1 "switch", 1 nickel CB, 1 dime CB)

3 specialists

 

So if, for example, we want to have 6 WR active, we need to take a spot from another position group

 

 By my count that is only 48. What am I missing?

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

 

Yeah, I took it to mean literal handshakes. And laugh away (I am slightly at myself lol) but I still think if you are trying to get back onto the field and you have a pinky that is hurt in any way, you are not doing intricate handshakes with teammates. 

 

and the "not seen throwing during media viewing portion of drills" doesn't really mean anything to me. I know it's reported a lot about injured QB's, but I see that as a way coaches/teams could try to be setting up smokescreens. 

 

I can’t imagine throwing a football with a broken pinky, but evidently Aaron Rodgers managed with a broken thumb?

 

The things these guys do to get out there

 

Agree with you that “no throwing during media portion of practice” could be a smokescreen

 

2 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

 By my count that is only 48. What am I missing?

 

That the game day active roster is 46 players, 48 provided at least 8 OLmen are active?

Edited January 12, 2023 by Beck Water

[Rochesterfan]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just a little note that the section the reporters watched featured Tim Settle being attended by trainers and helped off - yet he isn’t listed as limited.  So I don’t think one should rely 100% on what the reporters see as gospel.  They’re good at reporting what they see, but players do spend more time getting treatments then come out and join practice.  The Bills have also reported hammies and groin injuries that have not caused players to lose time as well as hammies that have kept players out 3 weeks.  So I’d say we don’t know which this is, at this point.

 

As far as early Bease elevation “tipping a hand”, I feel that I’ve spelled out why I think that and with all respect, you’re doing the “lalalal not listening” thing, so I’m out.  I”ll just point out once again that there is a large vocabulary of plays that Beasley used to run, that got taken out of the Bills playbook early in this season.

 

There are also a number of plays McKenzie runs that Beasley really can’t at this point - but Shakir could theoretically manage most of those and Hines many of the rest

 

 

What does “handshake work” mean?  I’ve never heard that term

 

Says he was not seen throwing

 

 

 

Are they talking literally, handshakes, like Josh Allen’s handshakes with his crew?

 

So basically you don’t want the Bills to “tip their hand”, but by activating Beasley and forcing the Dolphins go back and gameplan for Beasley is a bad thing?

 

It is not lalalala crap - it is I genuinely do not understand what difference it makes if the Bills know the extent of the Hammy injury and expect that he is not going to play - why not get Cole activated.  The Dolphins would have been planning for him - just as the Bills are planning for Skylar, but still watching for Bridgewater news.

 

The Biggest loss in all this to me is McK typically plays Hill in the scout team and now you have lost that.

 

We will see, but I expect (as you said in an earlier post) - you will have Cole doing his part, Shakir doing the man routes more, and Hines doing the heavy motion/sweeps.  
 

 

[MILFHUNTER#518]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I can’t imagine throwing a football with a broken pinky, but evidently Aaron Rodgers managed with a broken thumb?

 

The things these guys do to get out there

 

 

That the game day active roster is 46 players, 48 provided at least 8 OLmen are active?

Copy. Thank you. 👍