Dual #1 WR concept

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, jwhit34 said:

Andre Reed and James Lofton

Two Hall of Famers (yeah, one past his prime, but still damn good) would seem to count, wouldn't it?

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Maybe a team without a franchise QB?  The last 3 teams to win the SB had top notch receivers and well above average QBs.  

That’s 4 teams over the last 35 years.  The 90’s Cowboys Dynasty and The Patriots Dynasty did not have dual top 30 WR’s

 

 Not that won a Super Bowl, but for 3 seasons in the middle of the dynasty, from 2007-2009, they had Moss and Welker. All 3 of those years they had dual top 21 WRs. Top 11 in 2007(Lost to the Giants in SB XLII), top 21 in 2008(Brady's torn ACL year) and top 5 in 2009(Lost in the WC Round to the Ravens 33-14).

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Vikings didn’t win a SB or Championship, and Randall Cobb…really?

I don't know what your standards are, since I think this started with reference to the Dolphins ... are you saying they're winning a Super Bowl any time soon?

Randall Cobb: look back a bit. Two Hall of Famers in their prime is unheard of (am I missing any pair?), so two clear Pro Bowlers at a time ain't bad.

[MarkyMannn]

4 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yes, it has demonstrated success for about half a century.

- Lynn Swann and John Stallworth (Steelers dynasty)

- Fred Biletnikoff and Cliff Branch (peak Raiders)

- Jerry Rice and John Taylor (49ers dynasty)

- Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt (Greatest Show on Turf Rams SB winners)

 

Ahh, to be young ...

Reed & Lofton👍

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Unpopular opinion, but I’m not ready to give up on Gabe Davis yet. His story has yet to be written this season. I do agree that we need someone that can add some “juice” to the receiving core. McKenzie really ain’t that guy. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Fix. The. O-line.

All of this 

[Matt_In_NH]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

If we want a stud WR opposite Diggs, it’s going to have to happen via the draft imo

I agree, the money is kind of out of hand and the talent coming out of college recently at that position is outstanding.  Get one of them.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

It is actually financially impossible to do this in today’s NFL. If you look at the teams with an elite QB and two #1 WR’s, two of the three players in that trio are on rookie deals (cincy, Miami, Philly). 
 

The Chiefs realized this and that’s why they jettisoned Hill and kept Kelce as their number 1. 
 

I think the chiefs model is the right one— pay your franchise QB and number 1, and then fill in the rest with complimentary high-pick rookies and modest short-term free agents. If you don’t do that, you won’t have enough money to field a good line or good defense. 

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

So you're saying that having TWO really good wide receivers is better than having just one?!

Wow. Big if true.

 

Outstanding use of Logic here. 

[ganesh]

On 12/29/2022 at 11:28 PM, Tanoros said:

Agree, for us to have two #1’s we are going to have to draft and develop for the second. We need contributors on rookies salaries in order to afford everything. As much as I’d love a second #1 wr, more than anything I just want another elite player on the offensive side of the ball. We have Allen and Diggs which is great, but we need one more atleast. With this upcoming draft, I feel like we need to land someone early who can be a major contributor on offense with the ceiling to be elite. 
 

I’d even settle for an elite offensive guard. I’d prefer another position, but an elite person on the o-line wouldn’t be horrible. 
 

It’s going to be an interesting offseason. Now that things are getting tight, I’m curious to see how Beane handles things and which direction we go. 

We have drafted Cook for exactly that reason. 

 

The Bills are using the Patriots approach to develop their game around the QB.  They used a ton of RBs, Slot receivers and TEs to keep everything off balance.  They never had big bodied WR other than Moss.  They mostly threw to Welker and then to Edelman and Gronkowski,  They always had a stable of small backs that were very fast.  

[Mr. WEO]

Wouldn’t it be much better and make more sense to have 3 WR1s?

[dma0034]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Wouldn’t it be much better and make more sense to have 3 WR1s?

 

Honestly why not 4?

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

 

Honestly why not 4?

OP is definitely on to something—aiming too low though

[BADOLBILZ]

On 12/29/2022 at 7:27 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

It is actually financially impossible to do this in today’s NFL. If you look at the teams with an elite QB and two #1 WR’s, two of the three players in that trio are on rookie deals (cincy, Miami, Philly). 

 

It's actually not impossible.......or even that complicated.

 

Every team can afford to have a QB1 and WR1 on big second contracts...........and then you need one WR1A on a rookie contract.

 

It's literally where the Bills should be right now..........and hopefully will be next season.

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's actually not impossible.......or even that complicated.

 

Every team can afford to have a QB1 and WR1 on big second contracts...........and then you need one WR1A on a rookie contract.

 

It's literally where the Bills should be right now..........and hopefully will be next season.

 

 

I agree with this. My post was in response to the OP suggesting having a free agent as the WR1a. To me, that is not financially possible. Your WR1a has to be on a rookie contract to make it work. 

[biggerdaddynj]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:50 PM, The Frankish Reich said:

Yes, it has demonstrated success for about half a century.

- Lynn Swann and John Stallworth (Steelers dynasty)

- Fred Biletnikoff and Cliff Branch (peak Raiders)

- Jerry Rice and John Taylor (49ers dynasty)

- Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt (Greatest Show on Turf Rams SB winners)

 

Ahh, to be young ...

Here’s another one (this time a trifecta but they never made it though they sure deserved at least one SB):  Fouts throwing the ball to these “three” guys: Charlie Joiner, John Jefferson/Wes Chandler and Kellen Winslow (Air Coryell — the Coryell coaching tree over the years is extremely impressive—John Madden, Bill Walsh, and Joe Gibbs and many more top notch football coaches).

[BillsGuyOutWest]

Hear me out, 53 man roster, all WR1s. 
 

Allen can stay as long as he works on his releases off the line and puts in extra JUGs work. 

[LeGOATski]

I think the Bills intend to do this by drafting a WR early. They brought in Kromer with the hopes of doing more with less on the O line, that way they can grab a top skill player in the draft, be it WR or RB.

 

I may be in the minority, but I consider Knox an elite weapon opposite Diggs. The Bills could choose to make him more of a target instead of keeping him in to block so much.

[Alphadawg7]

On 12/29/2022 at 9:41 AM, TheWeatherMan said:

Has this concept demonstrated success? IMO, the answer is yes.
 

Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers, 2020-2021 Chiefs (if you include Kelsey), Eagles and Buccaneers all have or had multiple top 30 pass catchers and have demonstrated significant success under this elite dual threat concept.

 

The 2023 WR draft class is not looking all that deep and the FA market looks very weak.    Considering this, would OBD subscribe to this concept and be comfortable trading away a #1 or #2 pick and spending a huge chunk of cap space on another WR?  If so, who would you target? If not where should we allocate the picks and available cap?

 

A quick look at the salaries of top WR’s playing on bad teams leads me to believe Deandre Hopkins (30) and Mike Evans (29) / (if Brady retires) might be available. 

 

How many Superbowls did Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers win?  2020-2021 Chiefs don't have dual #1 WR's...one is a TE which are cheaper than #1 WR's.  No one is paying a TE $30M a season like Hill got.  

 

Go back and look at all the Superbowl winners of the past 25 years.  Count how many of them had 2 top #1 WR's on them in their prime.  You would have a hard case even saying 1 did.  

 

As someone quickly said...Fix the OL.  Yes, we can use another WR in the draft, but absolutely not are we going to sign another top tier free agent WR for big money.  We do not have that luxury.  

 

Miami, Cincy, and LAC can do it because they have QB's on rookie deals.  And I don't know I would even say LAC has two #1 WR's, Mike Williams is overrated and overpaid.  But they are paying him like one.  KC had both Kelce and Hill when Mahomes was on his rookie deal, once his new deal kicked in they traded Hill rather than paying him the absurd contract he got.  

Edited December 31, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, dma0034 said:

 

Honestly why not 4?

I’m a big fan of five

5 hours ago, BillsGuyOutWest said:

Hear me out, 53 man roster, all WR1s. 
 

Allen can stay as long as he works on his releases off the line and puts in extra JUGs work. 

Dammit, you’re stupid ideas better than my stupid idea

[Buddo]

TBH, I'd prioritise O-Line, specifically a guard/center, over a WR.

 

It's not that having another good WR isn't something I want, it's more that currently, you can find them all over the place.

 

My preference would be for a larger bodied guy, with a big catch radius, as that gives us something different to what we have, but it isn't a prerequisite.

 

We have a distinct need for a Guard/Center, as Morse isn't going to be playing for that much longer.

 

I'm pretty comfortable with Bates at center, tbh, but if he slides across, we still need another guard.

 

While this years 'class' at WR may not be as good as some recent ones, there will still be plenty of options to take a decent one, through the first 3 rounds at least.

 

If, wherever we pick in the 1st round, it's a coice between a Guard/ Center, and a WR with the same 'value', I'm taking the Guard this year.

[TheWeatherMan]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

How many Superbowls did Dolphins, Bengals, Chargers win?  2020-2021 Chiefs don't have dual #1 WR's...one is a TE which are cheaper than #1 WR's.  No one is paying a TE $30M a season like Hill got.  

 

Go back and look at all the Superbowl winners of the past 25 years.  Count how many of them had 2 top #1 WR's on them in their prime.  You would have a hard case even saying 1 did.  

 

As someone quickly said...Fix the OL.  Yes, we can use another WR in the draft, but absolutely not are we going to sign another top tier free agent WR for big money.  We do not have that luxury.  

 

Miami, Cincy, and LAC can do it because they have QB's on rookie deals.  And I don't know I would even say LAC has two #1 WR's, Mike Williams is overrated and overpaid.  But they are paying him like one.  KC had both Kelce and Hill when Mahomes was on his rookie deal, once his new deal kicked in they traded Hill rather than paying him the absurd contract he got.  

Thanks for taking the time to reply with a well thought out post!  I agree with most of what you said except:

 

Tampa Bay had 3 #1’s, Rams arguably had 2 #1’s who played against the Bengals who arguably had 2 #1’s.  
 

To your point on Kelsey, I somewhat agree.  He’s probably the most underpaid player in the NFL considering he’s been top 10 in receiving yards and TD’s over the last 4 years and makes a fraction of what WR’s do.  And I agree that the Bills won’t sign a top tier WR for big money, but they might be able to find one on the cheap that want to play on a SB caliber team.  We will see. 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply with a well thought out post!  I agree with most of what you said except:

 

Tampa Bay had 3 #1’s, Rams arguably had 2 #1’s who played against the Bengals who arguably had 2 #1’s.  
 

 

Tampa had 3?  I don’t know I would classify Godwin as a #1 WR personally, and he wasn’t being paid like one during that SB.  Not sure who the third “#1” WR is.  Godwin is a very good #2, but I don’t think he would thrive as the primary feature target.  TB had one IMO in Evan’s, and then some good players around him and Brady at RB, WR, and TE.
 

Robert Woods has never been a true #1 WR, so Rams didn’t have that either.  
 

I think you are mixing up having a good #2 WR with having two top #1 WRs like Miami has right now.  
 

Bengals do, but they didn’t win the SB.  

 

4 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

To your point on Kelsey, I somewhat agree.  He’s probably the most underpaid player in the NFL considering he’s been top 10 in receiving yards and TD’s over the last 4 years and makes a fraction of what WR’s do.  And I agree that the Bills won’t sign a top tier WR for big money, but they might be able to find one on the cheap that want to play on a SB caliber team.  We will see. 

 

 

Kelce is obviously an elite player, but when it comes to signing a WR who is a true number 1, it’s going to cost more than a TE.  
 

We might sign someone, but it will be a complimentary player, not a top level #1 premiere free agent. 
 

Most likely we will draft someone instead.

[Drew21PA]

Hey I may be the only one thinking it but damn

 

kind of wish we would have let isiah hodgins loose now?

 

kid is ripping it up in NJ

[Ya Digg?]

10 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

Hey I may be the only one thinking it but damn

 

kind of wish we would have let isiah hodgins loose now?

 

kid is ripping it up in NJ

No he’s not-he has a couple of touchdowns but that’s it. 3 touchdowns and 350 yards is a really low bar to set for someone ripping it up. Before last game he he never topped 45 yards 

[Drew21PA]

1 minute ago, Ya Digg? said:

No he’s not-he has a couple of touchdowns but that’s it. 3 touchdowns and 350 yards is a really low bar to set for someone ripping it up. Before last game he he never topped 45 yards 

How many games has he played in?  

[Ya Digg?]

1 minute ago, Drew21PA said:

How many games has he played in?  

He’s played in 8 games. If he was getting 30-40 yards per game with the Bills people on here would be wondering why he’s out on the field 

[Drew21PA]

Ok so I’ll say the first 2-3 limited reps they are increasing and so is his oroduction

 

3 tds in say 6 full time go ganes close to 9 tds a year and by your estimation around 800 yards rec. pace

 

ehhhh I’ll take that production

[billsfan89]

I would prefer this team boost the play of the Oline and get a cheaper vet slot WR. I know a lot of people are down on Davis but I think he is a fine WR2 and next season could breakout as he now has a full season getting a larger workload. Davis this year in 16 games is going to finish with about 800-950 yards and 8-10 TD’s, that’s not the breakout I wanted but it is a respectable WR2 season esp given the fact that he was banged up early in the season.

 

Diggs is a quality WR1 and Mac a good gadget WR and Knox at TE brings some good pass catching ability to the offense. If this team has a respectable and reliable slot WR the offense would have enough firepower. 
 

The team doesn’t need to go big game hunting for a WR1A when the Oline is a far bigger issue and a reliable slot WR would be a cheaper fix to the consistency of the passing offense.

[Ya Digg?]

16 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

Ok so I’ll say the first 2-3 limited reps they are increasing and so is his oroduction

 

3 tds in say 6 full time go ganes close to 9 tds a year and by your estimation around 800 yards rec. pace

 

ehhhh I’ll take that production

Just one final thing with this. He’s playing as their #2 receiver right now. He wouldn’t be getting that much playing time in Buffalo. Seems like an alright player, I’m sure he will be in the league a couple more years, but he was never going to produce here (which is why he rarely was active on game days). I would be shocked if he Evers tops 600-700 yards in a season 

[BillsShredder83]

On 12/29/2022 at 12:46 PM, John from Riverside said:

The bills are not going to have money to sign a big name free agent anyway could be the reason why they were hoping for Gabe Davis to be able to step up and take that number to roll

If we decide to not extend Gabe i could see us go after a top WR, just not the huge names like Hopkins or Evans. Thinking a level down like the Hollywood Brown, Aj Brown type deals we saw last offseason. 

 

We revolve around Josh. We could choose not to be patient in drafting one, our window is now. Could make a similar signing, draft OL early and often and choose to let Gabe play out and Ed Oliver move on

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by BillsShredder83

[ColoradoBills]

On 12/29/2022 at 10:43 AM, Bangarang said:

Fix. The. O-line.

 

Yep OL (1-FA 1-Draft).

WR (Draft).

S (probably Draft).

Fill in some depth holes with the rest of the draft.

[machine gun kelly]

The whole push for OBJ when we didn’t know if he would be ready by January was for the premise made by the OP.

 

GD is a good number 3 and so on, and needed a #2.

 

It’s a moot point at this time as he’s not going to be ready so we go with what we have and there is no wish list for OL or anything else at this time.  We’ll win or lose on what we have on the current roster.

 

Everything else is an off season conversation.

[Tanoros]

On 12/30/2022 at 9:47 PM, ganesh said:

We have drafted Cook for exactly that reason. 

 

The Bills are using the Patriots approach to develop their game around the QB.  They used a ton of RBs, Slot receivers and TEs to keep everything off balance.  They never had big bodied WR other than Moss.  They mostly threw to Welker and then to Edelman and Gronkowski,  They always had a stable of small backs that were very fast.  

Cool turning into that elite player would be amazing and not out of question either. The only thing I see about Cook being a slight issue, is Allen would need to do a better job of looking his way earlier on certain down/distances. Allen tends to look deep first, which is why I would prefer that additional elite weapon to be a wr, preferably a 1B to Digg’s 1A. It would compliment Allen as he plays currently a bit better. 
 

However, I believe the more explosive Cook shows himself to be, that should help Allen look his way more often. Hopefully someone emerges down the stretch/playoffs who we can feel good about for next year, but unless someone steps up, I hope we continue our search for another. 

[Tanoros]

On 12/31/2022 at 5:03 AM, LeGOATski said:

I think the Bills intend to do this by drafting a WR early. They brought in Kromer with the hopes of doing more with less on the O line, that way they can grab a top skill player in the draft, be it WR or RB.

 

I may be in the minority, but I consider Knox an elite weapon opposite Diggs. The Bills could choose to make him more of a target instead of keeping him in to block so much.

I certainly he has the potential to be an elite weapon and I was really hoping to see him or Davis break out into a bonafide elite player this year (or anyone else, but those two seemed to have the highest probability). 

[hondo in seattle]

On 12/29/2022 at 4:27 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

It is actually financially impossible to do this in today’s NFL. If you look at the teams with an elite QB and two #1 WR’s, two of the three players in that trio are on rookie deals (cincy, Miami, Philly). 
 

The Chiefs realized this and that’s why they jettisoned Hill and kept Kelce as their number 1. 
 

I think the chiefs model is the right one— pay your franchise QB and number 1, and then fill in the rest with complimentary high-pick rookies and modest short-term free agents. If you don’t do that, you won’t have enough money to field a good line or good defense. 

 

This is why I was against the OBJ signing.   A team can only afford so many big money contracts.

[Drew21PA]

On 12/31/2022 at 2:50 PM, Ya Digg? said:

Just one final thing with this. He’s playing as their #2 receiver right now. He wouldn’t be getting that much playing time in Buffalo. Seems like an alright player, I’m sure he will be in the league a couple more years, but he was never going to produce here (which is why he rarely was active on game days). I would be shocked if he Evers tops 600-700 yards in a season 

Well well well pretty consistent 

[Aurelius]

I don’t think it’s a “concept”.  Bengals run 3 nasty WR’s.  We are behind in the arms race.