Kadarius Toney to the Chiefs for picks

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I'm curious to know who you mean, exactly? If you're talking Juju or MVS it's really early to chalk them up as a success yet. Lev Bell? Shady? Kelvin Benjamin? Josh Gordon? This is a desperation move that the Chiefs seem to swing and miss on every year.  Nothing to see here.

You can’t compare toney to dudes who were on their last legs. No one questions toney’s talent. He just is made of the staff stuff Sammy is made of. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

This all must mean we are getting OBJ!

[TheBrownBear]

Despite this dude being a malcontent and looking like a bust (from an attitude and professionalism perspective), this trade worries me. If he "gets it", this is going to be a great acquisition for KC.  You can almost envision him making some game-changing play in our stadium in January.  At the end of the day, I guess I'm still fearful of the Chiefs.

[Process]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He reminds me of Percy Harvin too... but I think Percy Harvin is one of the most overrated players to have played in the NFL in the last two decades. Toney is fast. He can make you miss in a phone box. However, he is yet to demonstrate he can play wide receiver in the NFL effectively. 

 

The story on him coming out was that Florida got him the ball in ways that accentuated his talent and just got him in 1v1s because even in college learning plays and understanding the offense wasn't really his bag. Those who were particularly low on him (and listen I quite liked him as a day 2 guy... just didn't think he belonged in round 1) made the point then that it is hard to do in the NFL where everyone has talent. 

 

If there is any team that can make it work with a speedy gadget guy who doesn't know the plays and doesn't really run routes it might be Kansas City with Mahomes and Reid. I can see the attraction for them. But I would suspect that there are heavy conditions on that 3rd round pick. Because at this point there is a fair chance that this league is just beyond him either because he isn't able to get the mental part down or isn't willing to put in the work to do so.

 

Potentially high reward but for a 3rd round pick pretty high risk unless the conditions are designed to mitigate that risk. 

There are no conditions. It's a 3 and a 6. 

 

Don't see how a very late third round pick is high risk.

 

I would have been okay with the Bills making the same trade. But would much rather sign obj for the playoffs and give up no draft picks, and this should take the chiefs out of the running for him so it could still be a win for us. 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Process

[gonzo1105]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I'm curious to know who you mean, exactly? If you're talking Juju or MVS it's really early to chalk them up as a success yet. Lev Bell? Shady? Kelvin Benjamin? Josh Gordon? This is a desperation move that the Chiefs seem to swing and miss on every year.  Nothing to see here.

 

Maybe your not thinking of the same things i'm thinking. They have success with malcontents who have screwed up before and have turned them around. Tyreek Hill, Frank Clark, Travis Kelce(in college), Willie Gay Jr who just came off suspension, Bashaud Breeland who got arrested and went on to be successful with the Chiefs. I think were thinking of 2 different lines. Your thinking of reclamation projects. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Process said:

There are no conditions. It's a 3 and a 6. 

 

Don't see how a very late third round pick is high risk.

 

The report I saw said conditional 3rd.

[Warcodered]

Maybe OBJ is going to the Giants though.

[Alphadawg7]

I wouldn't overlook this move, and I wouldn't just blanketly say Toney is a bust.  

 

Toney played on horrific offenses with a horrific QB prior to this year.  And he has battled some injuries.  To just say he can't succeed or be dangerous now in a terrific situation in KC, is very premature.  

 

It was a lot to risk on him, sure.  But this trade could really help the Chiefs.  When they lost Hill, it took 2 things away...a guy who can stretch the defense but also that quick strike YAC weapons that Mahomes uses so well.  Toney can help fill those voids.  

 

So...yeah, I wouldn't be so quick to mock this move.  If Toney can stay healthy and available, he can really help that offense because he doesn't have to replicate Hills production with all the other weapons they have.  But his presence and threat over the top and underneath on those short strikes for YAC is going to make the Chiefs harder to defend.

 

I think this trade helps the Chiefs more than the Quinn trade helped the Eagles.  

[Process]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The report I saw said conditional 3rd.

 

[gonzo1105]

1 minute ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

Maybe your not thinking of the same things i'm thinking. They have success with malcontents who have screwed up before and have turned them around. Tyreek Hill, Frank Clark, Travis Kelce(in college), Willie Gay Jr who just came off suspension, Bashaud Breeland who got arrested and went on to be successful with the Chiefs. I think were thinking of 2 different lines. Your thinking of reclamation projects. 

 

To put this in perspective Toney is a known headcase with a lot of talent that struggles to learn the playbook and had an AR-15 found in his car when he was at UF

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They have a bunch of role player receiver. Toney, on paper since he’s always hurt, might be their most talented receiver now. 
 

Hill the scumbag changes how defenses played KC. They are still really good but it hurts them against top defenses like ours. This is the Rams problem as well. Defenses can squat on underneath stuff without the fear of being torched.

Toney isn't a guy to torch you, though. YAC? Sure. But Toney himself is a role player guy as well.  And one with persistent soft tissue injuries at that. When you look into the future at a possible Chiefs/Bills rematch does Toney tip the scale as much as, say Tre White being back again? I think we both know that answer...lol

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

This all must mean we are getting OBJ!

OBJ might not be back until December. And it’s also banking on a dude coming off a major injury is back to 100%, which is risky. 
 

personally, I love Elijah Moore and would like a toney (though those injuries are really scary) more than OBJ, who I feel is severely overrated at this point. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Chiefs get Toney -- from Joe Schoen no less -- and Beane sits on hands as usual. It's actually unbelievable at this point.

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You can’t compare toney to dudes who were on their last legs. No one questions toney’s talent. He just is made of the staff stuff Sammy is made of. 

Honestly, I shouldn't compare Toney to any of those dudes because he hasn't accomplished 1% of what any of them did in the NFL. While those guys were on their last legs...Toney hasn't even found his yet. This speaks where he may be on his own career path as well!

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Maybe OBJ is going to the Giants though.

I can’t imagine any receiver wanting to play with Jones. Unless he just loves NYC and wants to be the number 1 receiver. I think the stat I heard is the giants don’t have a receiver with more than 200 yards. 

[Sestak4ever]

Reminds me of Tevon Austin. First round pick with speed and……

[The Wiz]

28 minutes ago, SCBills said:

That's legitimate compensation being sent out by the Chiefs for Toney. 

 

Does this foretell anything in regards to OBJ's mindset?  I've always thought the Chiefs and Rams were the main competition for him.  Maybe Ravens, but he'd be a fool to go there on a prove-it deal.  

 

I liked Toney coming out of Florida, but he's been a highlight here or there followed by no production and injuries. 

 

 

That's like Martin signing with buffalo on a prove-it deal. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

Honestly, I shouldn't compare Toney to any of those dudes because he hasn't accomplished 1% of what any of them did in the NFL. While those guys were on their last legs...Toney hasn't even found his yet. This speaks where he may be on his own career path as well!

Of course. But in the nfl, young is better than old. Obviously, health matters too. 

[Beck Water]

37 minutes ago, wolfpack78 said:

Conditional 3rd and a 6th

 

Wow, that's a haul.  The Giants have this to say about it:

 

https://www.nj.com/giants/2022/10/heres-why-brian-daboll-says-giants-traded-kadarius-toney-to-chiefs.html

 

Quote

Even though Daboll didn’t come out and say it Thursday, it’s pretty clear that Toney’s lack of dependability resulted in new Giants general manager Joe Schoen trading him to the Chiefs.

 

“We just thought it was for the best, for the team,” Daboll said of the trade before Thursday’s practice. “Wish Kadarius well. I’m not going to get into any of the details. Our decision is for the team and we’re moving on.”

 

Quote

Daboll spoke to reporters just moments after the trade went down. Daboll and Schoen informed Toney of the trade in person before Thursday’s practice. Daboll declined to say how Toney reacted.

 

“I’m going to keep that between us,” Daboll said.

 

NJ press take on that:

 

Quote

Brian Daboll values dependability.

 

Kadarius Toney was far from dependable during his time with the Giants.

 

And so it is that Toney is no longer a member of Daboll’s team.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Beck Water

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Of course. But in the nfl, young is better than old. Obviously, health matters too. 

Health, for sure. However attitude and motivation factor in as well. Youth is wasted on the young, my friend haha

[SCBills]

16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

At the combine, Jeudy ran a 4.46 and Toney ran a 4.39.

 

That's not the end all be all as we've seen with Gabe Davis.  KT's game is not as a field stretcher. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Process said:

 

 

Thank you. Lots of places saying conditional when I think they mean compensatory. The Chiefs have a 3rd round comp pick for Bears GM Ryan Poles.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

OBJ might not be back until December. And it’s also banking on a dude coming off a major injury is back to 100%, which is risky. 
 

personally, I love Elijah Moore and would like a toney (though those injuries are really scary) more than OBJ, who I feel is severely overrated at this point. 

Zero chance of moore being traded to Buffalo.  You know this

[DollaBills]

15 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

That's what she said

gottem

[JoeF]

Joe Schoen is a junior wizard....Toney has not contributed at all (2 catches 23 yards) to a 5-1 start and he may blossom with the Chiefs but Joe got the most out of an unproductive asset for the Giants.

 

The call to Beane today was "I got a 3rd and a 6th for a player that hasn't contributed at all this year."  Beane said, "the force is strong with you".  

Edited October 27, 2022 by JoeF

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Toney isn't a guy to torch you, though. YAC? Sure. But Toney himself is a role player guy as well.  And one with persistent soft tissue injuries at that. When you look into the future at a possible Chiefs/Bills rematch does Toney tip the scale as much as, say Tre White being back again? I think we both know that answer...lol

But that’s the problem with receivers. It’s the most dependent position in football. If your qb sucks, it doesn’t matter who the receiver is. Randy Moss sucked in Oakland and was suddenly good again in NE. 
 

I believe in his talent and I believe Jones is one of the worst throwing starting qbs in the nfl. But KT hasn’t shown the ability to stay healthy and that’s the biggest issue. I see it as a low risk, high reward move. These are the moves good teams can make. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Does this mean no OBJ to KC?

[starrymessenger]

3 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Chiefs get Toney -- from Joe Schoen no less -- and Beane sits on hands as usual. It's actually unbelievable at this point.

No way Beane trades for a reputed head case no matter how talented. Jeudy's recent bad body language might be enuf to turn him off even if he was otherwise interested.

[Beck Water]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Thank you. Lots of places saying conditional when I think they mean compensatory. The Chiefs have a 3rd round comp pick for Bears GM Ryan Poles.

 

So those picks are at the very end of the 3rd round, behind the comp picks.

Still a good haul for a guy who has missed 12 out of a possible 24 games he could play, including 5 so far this season.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Zero chance of moore being traded to Buffalo.  You know this

I know but he would be perfect with Allen. Another receiver getting held back by a bad qb. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

But that’s the problem with receivers. It’s the most dependent position in football. If your qb sucks, it doesn’t matter who the receiver is. Randy Moss sucked in Oakland and was suddenly good again in NE. 
 

I believe in his talent and I believe Jones is one of the worst throwing starting qbs in the nfl. But KT hasn’t shown the ability to stay healthy and that’s the biggest issue. I see it as a low risk, high reward move. These are the moves good teams can make. 

 

Or run routes. Or learn a playbook. 

 

I see this as a bit like when the Bills threw a pick at Cleveland for Corey Coleman, except that was a 7th. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, starrymessenger said:

No way Beane trades for a reputed head case no matter how talented. Jeudy's recent bad body language might be enuf to turn him off even if he was otherwise interested.

We traded for Diggs who had way more “issues” in Minnesota than Jeudy has in Denver. 

[Big Blitz]

He hasn’t been the same since he hurt his ankle pretty good last year then his hamstring 

 

You won’t see him before December 

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Does this mean no OBJ to KC?

reduced chance if any.  Picks are one thing, OBJ will just be money if they wanted him.  I don't know Toney's cap number though.

[H2o]

Is he any more than what Mecole Hardman is for them right now? Doubt it. 

[gonzo1105]

6 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Chiefs get Toney -- from Joe Schoen no less -- and Beane sits on hands as usual. It's actually unbelievable at this point.

 

I remember 2 offseason ago when the Bills hardly did anything "splash" worthy and the Chiefs added Orlando Brown, Joe Thuney, and Jarron Reed and Bills fans when into mass panic about how much better the Chiefs got and the Bills sat on their hands only to have the Bills have the Chiefs on the ropes last year with 13 seconds to go

[eball]

Bit of a head scratcher there.

 

[NewEra]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

But that’s the problem with receivers. It’s the most dependent position in football. If your qb sucks, it doesn’t matter who the receiver is. Randy Moss sucked in Oakland and was suddenly good again in NE. 
 

I believe in his talent and I believe Jones is one of the worst throwing starting qbs in the nfl. But KT hasn’t shown the ability to stay healthy and that’s the biggest issue. I see it as a low risk, high reward move. These are the moves good teams can make. 

Problem with this:  no mention of belief in the young man’s character.  That IS his biggest problem. It’s not health.  He’s just not a mature adult yet.  Maybe this will help him mature. Maybe not

[stevestojan]

Not sure why everyone is saying this is a bad move for the Chiefs. Looking at just this year, this move potentially makes the Chiefs a little better and we all know what the potential margin for error is against those jerks. 
 

 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know but he would be perfect with Allen. Another receiver getting held back by a bad qb. 

That’s not what is holding him back.