Who decides what RB is on the field for any given play?

[LabattBlue]

About a 1/2 hour ago I heard on WGR(I think it was Nate Geary) that the RB coach is the one who determines which RB is on the field for each play?

 

It didn’t sound right to me.   True or False?

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

About a 1/2 hour ago I heard on WGR(I think it was Nate Geary) that the RB coach is the one who determines which RB is on the field for each play?

 

It didn’t sound right to me.   True or False?

 

I would guess this is different for every team, I don't think there is going to be a specific answer here.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I'm guessing what they are implying is it's already predetermined, when the Bills run plays 12, 25, and 49, this RB is on the field, but when it's 17, and 32, it's a different guy.  So the RB coach here's the play call and then yells to whoever is the correct guy to get onto the field. Like if it's a pass to the RB, likely it would be Cook, at least that was the plan before he fumbled.

[Scott7975]

Not sure.  I would assume that to a certain extent that they have their own packages of plays because they have different skill sets.  For "universal" plays, which they all might be and I might be talking out of my ass, I really dont know who makes that call.

[PrimeTime101]

8 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

About a 1/2 hour ago I heard on WGR(I think it was Nate Geary) that the RB coach is the one who determines which RB is on the field for each play?

 

It didn’t sound right to me.   True or False?

True and false.

 

There are specific running plays for each RB and there are general plays for any RB. The General any RB play Geary Dictates

[clayboy54]

I think that it is decided by Ralph Wilson’s ghost. Maybe it’s the spirits of the Native Americans buried under the stadium. It’s got to be one of those.

[RocCityRoller]

It looked to be by series and/or quarter Thursday night.

 

Moss had a lot of the last drive in the 3rd. When the qtr ended Singletary was back in for the start of the 4th, even though the drive was still active.

 

I wish they would just go with the hot hand and keep that RB in until the RB is gassed or the Bills score.

[Freddie's Dead]

McC:  Should I keep running Moss?

 

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

I'm guessing what they are implying is it's already predetermined, when the Bills run plays 12, 25, and 49, this RB is on the field, but when it's 17, and 32, it's a different guy.  So the RB coach here's the play call and then yells to whoever is the correct guy to get onto the field. Like if it's a pass to the RB, likely it would be Cook, at least that was the plan before he fumbled.

 

I think that's correct to my understanding.  When the gameplan is installed for the week, each play has players assigned to it with alternatives if the first assigned player is made inactive or is injured (or in the doghouse) for a play.   That call is probably made by both the position coach and the OC when the 53-man is announced and updated each week based on injuries and practices.   As I understand it, during team meetings at the hotels before the game, the plays are reviewed and the players on the field for different formations indicate (raise hand?).

 

So if a player is undergoing medical e v a l, or is injured, or is in the doghouse, a number of people can communicate that to the position coach, OC, and HC and it's the position coach's job to tell the alternate "you're up". 

 

I think these days most teams employ assistants part of whose job is to track these developments in-game and help get the right guys on and off the field.

 

 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

About a 1/2 hour ago I heard on WGR(I think it was Nate Geary) that the RB coach is the one who determines which RB is on the field for each play?

 

It didn’t sound right to me.   True or False?

 

Usually the RB coach although I am sure the OC could overrule him if need be, but that would probably piss off the RB coach as that is technically his responsibility.

 

However I would assume he will go over things with Dorsey in gameplanmimg each week, talk about results from the previous week and decide on any playing time adjustments, certain plays they want a player to be in there for, etc 

 

But then it's up to him how he distributes it on GameDay between the running backs. 

 

So basically it is up to him, but it's done within the framework of what Dorsey/McDermott wants in that regard.

 

This is likely the same with all position groups, not just with RBs

Edited September 10, 2022 by Big Turk

[elijah]

I’m not sure on the answer, but based on the source I would guess there’s atleast a 51% chance it’s incorrect

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

It looked to be by series and/or quarter Thursday night.

 

Moss had a lot of the last drive in the 3rd. When the qtr ended Singletary was back in for the start of the 4th, even though the drive was still active.

 

I wish they would just go with the hot hand and keep that RB in until the RB is gassed or the Bills score.

I wish they would just give Motor 80% of the carries.  He’s the best rusher by a mile.

[Marv's Neighbor]

2 hours ago, clayboy54 said:

I think that it is decided by Ralph Wilson’s ghost. Maybe it’s the spirits of the Native Americans buried under the stadium. It’s got to be one of those.

Put the cheapest player on the field?

[TBBills]

Sometimes it's me, other times it's Steve Tasker... I guess we are creating a chance to get angry at someone for no reason by wondering who is the one doing it.

[LabattBlue]

I got the impression he was stating that the RB has free reign to substitute RB’s as he sees fit.   He didn’t explain in any further depth. 

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

About a 1/2 hour ago I heard on WGR(I think it was Nate Geary) that the RB coach is the one who determines which RB is on the field for each play?

 

It didn’t sound right to me.   True or False?

 

There has to be some convention with regards to what plays Dorsey is looking to call.  Down an distance has to factor into the equation.

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I wish they would just give Motor 80% of the carries.  He’s the best rusher by a mile.

 

Yep. Especially when they are calling 15 or 16 running back rushes. If they are calling 25 runs fair enough lighten his load because I don't think he is a "bellcow" type. The sweet spot for Singletary is about 15-20 carries. And the Bills should lean on him until you start getting towards those numbers. 

[GoBills808]

Typically which RBs are on the field would be determined by different personnel groupings or 'packages' on offense....within each group there are different alignments and formations from which to run particular plays. I don't know who on the Bills is responsible for getting them into different groupings tbh

[RocCityRoller]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Especially when they are calling 15 or 16 running back rushes. If they are calling 25 runs fair enough lighten his load because I don't think he is a "bellcow" type. The sweet spot for Singletary is about 15-20 carries. And the Bills should lean on him until you start getting towards those numbers. 

 

You made my point of view even better than me. If Bills running backs are only going to get 15-20 carries a game, Motor should be getting them until:

1) Motor stops being effective. 6 YPC is effective IMO.

2) Cook shows the ability to make splash plays Motor can't, and hang onto the ball

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Especially when they are calling 15 or 16 running back rushes. If they are calling 25 runs fair enough lighten his load because I don't think he is a "bellcow" type. The sweet spot for Singletary is about 15-20 carries. And the Bills should lean on him until you start getting towards those numbers. 

 

2 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

You made my point of view even better than me. If Bills running backs are only going to get 15-20 carries a game, Motor should be getting them until:

1) Motor stops being effective. 6 YPC is effective IMO.

2) Cook shows the ability to make splash plays Motor can't, and hang onto the ball

 

We will see how it goes, but I am guessing they were looking for a nice split because of the heat and trying to make sure each guy is fresh.  For Game 1 - I think they tried to ensure people got plenty of rest and down time to ensure each snap was at 100%.

 

I also think when the 3rd quarter started - the Bills wanted to pass more and I think they wanted Moss in for protection reasons - although Singletary did stone a couple of guys - I think in general Moss is both a better blocker and slightly better at releasing for routes.  He is just no where near as dynamic as Singletary.

 

I would of loved to see what the mix would have been like without Cook’s early fumble as I think they would have split the Moss snaps with Cook and it would have been more like 35 Singletary, 15 Moss, and 10 for Cook - which is about 60% for Singletary, 25% Moss and 15% Cook.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I also think when the 3rd quarter started - the Bills wanted to pass more and I think they wanted Moss in for protection reasons - although Singletary did stone a couple of guys - I think in general Moss is both a better blocker and slightly better at releasing for routes.  He is just no where near as dynamic as Singletary.

 

 

Agree.

[LeGOATski]

Singletary looked great to start the game. I think he got 2 first downs on his first 3 plays. Then he comes out for Moss, who doesn't have the same shiftiness or vision.

 

I guess they believe Moss is the better receiving back? He seems to be in on those plays. Is he though? I don't understand it.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

Singletary looked great to start the game. I think he got 2 first downs on his first 3 plays. Then he comes out for Moss, who doesn't have the same shiftiness or vision.

 

I guess they believe Moss is the better receiving back? He seems to be in on those plays. Is he though? I don't understand it.

well even tho I don't imagine Allen rushing 10x a game is going to be in the gameplan every week, let's say the distribution of passes/runs follows roughly what we saw at SoFi w an average of 60 offensive plays/game (maybe a little low but close to average overall and Bills specific too) that gives us in the realm of 35 passes and 25 rushes per game. Of those 25 I give 5-8 of them to Allen on called QB or scrambles, leaving about 18-20 rushes between the backs. Of those Singletary imo should be getting 75% so in the 12-15 attempts per game, leaving the remaining 8 or so left between Moss and Cook. I see very little reason to distribute the rushing touches any other way tbh, Singletary is clearly the superior rushing option

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Singletary looked great to start the game. I think he got 2 first downs on his first 3 plays. Then he comes out for Moss, who doesn't have the same shiftiness or vision.

 

I guess they believe Moss is the better receiving back? He seems to be in on those plays. Is he though? I don't understand it.

 

I think Moss has 2 slight advantages over Motor,

 

1) He is excellent at pass protection.  Singletary did an excellent job in this game picking up defenders, but both times he did just what was needed for just long enough and the defender ended up at Josh.

 

2) When pass blocking - Moss has an excellent feel for chips on defenders and slipping out on patterns that Devin just is not as natural.  Moss is also a more natural catcher of the ball than Devin.

 

The issue as most will agree is that Devin is by far the better back - especially with the ball in his hands.  Moss just is not the same caliber of player, but I think in terms of dual purpose - is it run or pass - Moss can give the Bills things Devin can’t - he just is not going to give you the bigger play.

 

As the season wears on - I will be interested to see where we go as Cook gets his feet under him because I think they will use some different sets to get him the ball in space and that should lessen Moss’s role to some extent.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

When pass blocking - Moss has an excellent feel for chips on defenders and slipping out on patterns that Devin just is not as natural.  Moss is also a more natural catcher of the ball than Devin.

Singletary did this perfectly on his 2nd or 3rd play, chipped the DE so hard he fell over, and caught the pass for the 1st down.

 

I don't see the advantage and I feel like some of the reasoning people have for Moss is misguided in an attempt to try to find purpose for him.

 

I think the rotation is simply to keep them fresh, like others have stated, but it's overdone by the coaching staff.

[strive_for_five_guy]

Seems feasible.  I’m sure the RB coach discusses preferences for different packages with the other coaches, and if someone fumbles like Cook, maybe have a standard protocol to allow the player to reset and/or McDermott or Dorsey just call that shot during the game.

[RyanC883]

would be an interesting question to ask McD at a presser.  I’m sure each team is different.  

[Warriorspikes51]

I suspect we’ll see much more of Cook in the next few games

[Stads]

I rewatched the Allen stiff arm play. The way Devin took on Bobby Wagner to give Josh a lane to run was something else

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, Stads said:

I rewatched the Allen stiff arm play. The way Devin took on Bobby Wagner to give Josh a lane to run was something else

yep, I really don't see how Moss provides a significant advantage over Singletary in blocking or pass catching situations.

[Bferra13]

5 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Singletary looked great to start the game. I think he got 2 first downs on his first 3 plays. Then he comes out for Moss, who doesn't have the same shiftiness or vision.

 

I guess they believe Moss is the better receiving back? He seems to be in on those plays. Is he though? I don't understand it.

Agreed with this analysis. And it's worrisome to say the least. Even after a fumble he's still put out there as the lead horse. Some things this staff does I will just never understand, but I'm not arguing it this year yet.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Bferra13