Deshaun Watson admits under oath that Ashley Solis cried at the end of the massage

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah...sure plenty of people were waiting to throw the book at this poor guy who did nothing wrong other than picking the wrong woman to have a consensual encounter with.  The reason why there are people out there saying that stuff is that things like this happen...a lot more than people realize or want to admit.

 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/08/woman-charged-after-detectives-say-she-falsely-accused-man-of-rape/

 

Something like 20% of women are the victims of rap and only about 1/3 are reported. The data around false accusations implies it is minimal.

 

Think about that next time you are in a room full of women, especially ones that you care about. The idea that under most circumstances at least one has been raped or experienced an attempted rape. Then literally go look at yourself in the mirror and audibly say, "I bet she is lying". and see how that fits. 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Something like 20% of women are the victims of rap and only about 1/3 are reported. The data around false accusations implies it is minimal.

 

Think about that next time you are in a room full of women, especially ones that you care about. The idea that under most circumstances at least one has been raped or experienced an attempted rape. Then literally go look at yourself in the mirror and audibly say, "I bet she is lying". and see how that fits. 

 

It's up to 10% actually where they are falsely accused, but if you are the person being falsely accused, it's 100%, and the odds are heavily stacked against you.

 

I'm not saying I don't believe them out of hand, I am simply saying that blindly believing anything a woman tells you is likely to get you into far more trouble than it will get you into good graces with women. Most women don't respect guys who believe everything they say and are unwilling to ask questions or call them on things that don't make sense.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[John from Riverside]

13 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

I should of passed on reading this thread.

I stayed away from it and dammit I peaked.....wish I had not

[Warcodered]

43 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I don't think judging someone by actions rather than words is jilted. I think it just allows you to see clearly.  A woman says she wants to see you all the time but then is constantly "busy" if you ask her out but finds time to hang out with friends, coworkers outside work, etc simply means she isn't in to you.  But the number of guys who will keep trying over and over again because they think to themselves "Well, she said she really wants to get together so she must be interested" is staggering.  Nobody is that busy that if they really wanted to get together that they wouldn't find a way to make it happen. That just isn't how people work. In fact, if women are interested they will normally go out of their way to make it work even if it means cutting into other areas of their life.

 

Women many times either are being nice because they legitimately don't want to hurt guys feelings by telling them the truth so they think telling these little white lies or pretending like they want to do something when they really don't is letting them down easy and they'll get the hint, or they are afraid to tell guys "no" because some guys can't handle and get really mad and will go off on them and call them names, etc or will get violent because their ego can't handle being rejected.  

 

So if guys understand the why behind it, it becomes easier to just judge actions to understand what their true interest level is.  If they make time to see you, they are interested, if they don't they aren't. Many guys could simplify their life by just having that type of outlook in place, not only with women but with a lot of different things...but unfortunately they want to believe what people say instead of what they do most times.

This is all coming off as a little too personal to me.

 

But to be clear you're implying that women tend to lie about being busy to avoid dates, and also somehow connecting that to them falsely accusing someone of sexual assault/harassment?

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

This is all coming off as a little too personal to me.

 

But to be clear you're implying that women tend to lie about being busy to avoid dates, and also somehow connecting that to them falsely accusing someone of sexual assault/harassment?

 

I'm saying that blindly believing what someone says without clear evidence is all too common these days. Do I believe that some of these women were likely assaulted by Watson? Yes. Do I believe all 23 or 24 were?  Hell no. The risk/reward for anyone coming forward and filing a claim at this point against him is highly in favor of reward right now. 

 

If people don't understand that, then I am sorry to tell you, you likely have been taken advantage of in your life at least once, and likely more than once.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I'm not saying I don't believe them out of hand, I am simply saying that blindly believing anything a woman tells you is likely to get you into far more trouble than it will get you into good graces with women

 

I haven't seen one person in this thread make the claim that 100% of the plaintiffs are 100% telling the truth. I personally believe there is some gray space in some of the information that we've been given. I'm in no position to judge each individual accusation on its merits (other than Ashley Solis, where based on her TV interview I am confident as can be that she is telling the truth). My position has been that given all of the available evidence, the number of women that have come forward, and the fact that not a single one of the plaintiffs has changed their story, I am extremely confident that Deshaun Watson acted as a predator and took advantage of multiple women that he put into vulnerable situations. In at least one case, Ashley Solis's, I am confident that his behavior rose to the level of sexual assault. Based on your posts it doesn't seem like you disagree that Watson took advantage of at least some of these women. So what is your point now? If your point is that we shouldn't inherently believe all 23 women I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I haven't seen one person in this thread make the claim that 100% of the plaintiffs are 100% telling the truth. I personally believe there is some gray space in some of the information that we've been given. I'm in no position to judge each individual accusation on its merits (other than Ashley Solis, where based on her TV interview I am confident as can be that she is telling the truth). My position has been that given all of the available evidence, the number of women that have come forward, and the fact that not a single one of the plaintiffs has changed their story, I am extremely confident that Deshaun Watson acted as a predator and took advantage of multiple women that he put into vulnerable situations. In at least one case, Ashley Solis's, I am confident that his behavior rose to the level of sexual assault. Based on your posts it doesn't seem like you disagree that Watson took advantage of at least some of these women. So what is your point now? If your point is that we shouldn't inherently believe all 23 women I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.

 

I do think it's likely something nefarious happened at least in some of the cases and that Watson is guilty of being a scumbag at the very least in those situations. But I also don't buy that it happened to 23 or 24 different women, many of whom didn't come forward until the case was weeks or months old.

 

Mainly what I am trying to say is just that accusations without evidence does not constitute proof of wrongdoing.  Seems like there are a lot of people who are willing to go on what they say alone and don't take into account the fact that there could be other motives behind them coming forward and moreso dismissing that this type of stuff actually happens.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[Royale with Cheese]

Sounds like a few guys on her have been scorned by women....a lot.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[TBBills]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

This ***** keeps getting worse for him.

[fergie's ire]

7 minutes ago, TBBills said:

This ***** keeps getting worse for him.

I remember hearing something concerning the potential Dolphins trade and that Ross was looking into the possibility the lawsuits would be settled.  I wonder if it was this offer he was looking into.

[YoloinOhio]

25 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

I remember hearing something concerning the potential Dolphins trade and that Ross was looking into the possibility the lawsuits would be settled.  I wonder if it was this offer he was looking into.

Yes

Quote

Based on the language in footnote 2 to the Smith lawsuit, the nondisclosure language derailed the settlement. Attorney Rusty Hardin recently explained in a podcast appearance with Gabe Feldman that the Dolphins wanted the settlements to include the NDA language.

 

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Totally innocent people offer 6 figure settlements all the time 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Totally innocent people offer 6 figure settlements all the time 

 

If would have made it go away and for him to get back on the field quicker it might have made financial sense from a long term perspective. Once lawyers get involved it becomes dangerous to assume things. 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

If would have made it go away and for him to get back on the field quicker it might have made financial sense from a long term perspective. Once lawyers get involved it becomes dangerous to assume things. 

That's a ridiculous thing to write.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Totally innocent people offer 6 figure settlements all the time 

 

I mean actually, they do. Well not all the time, but it is not particularly rare. Normally in commercial style disputes rather than ones of this nature but it's pretty common to offer a big settlement amount even if you think you can win at court because there are things you don't want exposing to the public record. Normally that is commercially sensitive material (e.g. a corporation who don't want to lay bare the details of their customer complaint procedures that are based on a certain % of complainants giving up at each stage if you make them submit another form etc). In Watson's case that is likely to be that he has some pretty unusual kinks - potentially ones that haven't made the public domain yet. 

 

So offering $100k per plaintiff to settle shouldn't in and of itself be seen as an indication of anything other than the defendant's desire for this to go away. The nature of the NDAs that the plaintiff's rejected could be more interesting. Obviously when you put it with everything else in the public domain about this case the circumstancial evidence continues to pile up. But I caution people against thinking a large settlement offer is in itself indication of wrongdoing.

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

Coming ESPN Interviews:  “Deshaun, you are one of the greats of this league with your eye on a super bowl ring! So besides your sexual perversions and extremely creepy and criminal subversion of women that borders on rape and forced prostitution what do YOU think are the biggest obstacles to overcome this season to make Browns fans happy?”

 

 

 

[Captain Hindsight]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean actually, they do. Well not all the time, but it is not particularly rare. Normally in commercial style disputes rather than ones of this nature but it's pretty common to offer a big settlement amount even if you think you can win at court because there are things you don't want exposing to the public record. Normally that is commercially sensitive material (e.g. a corporation who don't want to lay bare the details of their customer complaint procedures that are based on a certain % of complainants giving up at each stage if you make them submit another form etc). In Watson's case that is likely to be that he has some pretty unusual kinks - potentially ones that haven't made the public domain yet. 

 

So offering $100k per plaintiff to settle shouldn't in and of itself be seen as an indication of anything other than the defendant's desire for this to go away. The nature of the NDAs that the plaintiff's rejected could be more interesting. Obviously when you put it with everything else in the public domain about this case the circumstancial evidence continues to pile up. But I caution people against thinking a large settlement offer is in itself indication of wrongdoing.

While this is all true, it makes my joke less funny soooo

[YoloinOhio]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

If would have made it go away and for him to get back on the field quicker it might have made financial sense from a long term perspective. Once lawyers get involved it becomes dangerous to assume things. 

It does make sense for him to settle and I’m sure the browns want him to do so. He’s been insistent publically that he won’t. He’s maintained that he did nothing wrong, has no regrets, has never disrespected women. But looks like he did try to settle and it didn’t work. His “I’m totally innocent” defense keeps taking a hit when he admits under oath that he made one of them cry, the text that he checked on her after to apologize, and the text he sent to another one where he said he makes a lot of masseuses uncomfortable. Just to cite a few examples. He clearly knows he was not as innocent as he maintains even if (huge IF) it wasn’t intentional. It would have been better imo to admit he has an issue,  is getting help, apologize, settle, take whatever suspension, and move on. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

That's a ridiculous thing to write.

 

 

 

Not really. Lawyers often times will advise clients to settle because they feel they will lose in court even if they think they are innocent and it will cost them less to settle.

[CincyBillsFan]

IMO the NFL should suspend Watson WITH PAY this season.  This would protect Watson in the event ALL 23 of these women are lying and are gold diggers.  It would also protect the NFL should it turn out that there is fire under all this smoke.

 

Of course this would punish the Browns for their deeply irresponsible act of signing Watson to that ridiculous contract BEFORE the legal issues were resolved.

 

 

 

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

IMO the NFL should suspend Watson WITH PAY this season.  This would protect Watson in the event ALL 23 of these women are lying and are gold diggers.  It would also protect the NFL should it turn out that there is fire under all this smoke.

 

Of course this would punish the Browns for their deeply irresponsible act of signing Watson to that ridiculous contract BEFORE the legal issues were resolved.

 

 

Cincy...Cincy, my old friend...you had me at "...punish the Browns for their deeply irresponsible act..."

 

 

EDIT:  Please note, I'm just agreeing on IF the NFL is having the debate of 8 games out without pay or an entire season out with it, yeah, I am onboard as long as they reevaluate the following season.

 

EDIT 2:  When he came out in the draft I wanted DW on the Bills so.  Badly.  I thought he was going to be something special, which he is on the field.

 

Time is a funny thing because now I am just not feeling it as much.

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by dollars 2 donuts

[cle23]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

It does make sense for him to settle and I’m sure the browns want him to do so. He’s been insistent publically that he won’t. He’s maintained that he did nothing wrong, has no regrets, has never disrespected women. But looks like he did try to settle and it didn’t work. His “I’m totally innocent” defense keeps taking a hit when he admits under oath that he made one of them cry, the text that he checked on her after to apologize, and the text he sent to another one where he said he makes a lot of masseuses uncomfortable. Just to cite a few examples. He clearly knows he was not as innocent as he maintains even if (huge IF) it wasn’t intentional. It would have been better imo to admit he has an issue,  is getting help, apologize, settle, take whatever suspension, and move on. 

 

I did not see one, and can't find anything showing he texted saying he makes masseuses uncomfortable.  Not saying he didn't, I just can't find it.  Obviously that's a bad look if so. 

 

The other one with Solis is weird.  If he truly didn't understand why she was crying, I could get apologizing just because you know something made her uncomfortable and I would also feel bad if I made someone feel that way unintentionally.  BUT, if what she described is true, then he knew what it was and that he was wrong and just trying to smooth it over. 

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

I did not see one, and can't find anything showing he texted saying he makes masseuses uncomfortable.  Not saying he didn't, I just can't find it.  Obviously that's a bad look if so. 

 

The other one with Solis is weird.  If he truly didn't understand why she was crying, I could get apologizing just because you know something made her uncomfortable and I would also feel bad if I made someone feel that way unintentionally.  BUT, if what she described is true, then he knew what it was and that he was wrong and just trying to smooth it over. 

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2022/03/25/deshaun-watson-denies-assulting-disrespecting-any-woman

[Mango]

Honestly, if I am Baker Mayfield, I am glad this is happening now. He has most certainly flashed outside of an injury last season. His org is a total disaster. Every situation can't be Josh and The Bills. Better to have a few good years, cut ties and pick your next landing spot rather than be stuck with that org for a decade or more. 

If they didn't blow this with Watson they would have botched it with different bad trades, signings, drafts. Mistakes like this by Cleveland are systemic.

 

If I am a QB needy team I would not hesitate to scoop him up. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

Honestly, if I am Baker Mayfield, I am glad this is happening now. He has most certainly flashed outside of an injury last season. His org is a total disaster. Every situation can't be Josh and The Bills. Better to have a few good years, cut ties and pick your next landing spot rather than be stuck with that org for a decade or more. 

If they didn't blow this with Watson they would have botched it with different bad trades, signings, drafts. Mistakes like this by Cleveland are systemic.

 

If I am a QB needy team I would not hesitate to scoop him up. 

Browns are holding him hostage right now, because reportedly  teams are willing to trade for him if Browns pick up some of the salary and they won’t do it. They are waiting to find out how long Watson is suspended or if a team loses a QB and gets desperate. Sure they are entitled to this from a pure business sense but it’s a terrible look to players around the League. Mayfield knows he’s done in Cleveland and would want to latch on somewhere as soon as possible so he can start learning the offense, etc. so he has the best chance to be successful in a year where nothing is guaranteed beyond 2022 for him. 
 

mandatory minicamp is coming - I assume the browns will tell him to show up so he’s not fined but not participate? So bizarre. 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Browns are holding him hostage right now, because reportedly  teams are willing to trade for him if Browns pick up some of the salary and they won’t do it. They are waiting to find out how long Watson is suspended or if a team loses a QB and gets desperate. Sure they are entitled to this from a pure business sense but it’s a terrible look to players around the League. Mayfield knows he’s done in Cleveland and would want to latch on somewhere as soon as possible so he can start learning the offense, etc. so he has the best chance to be successful in a year where nothing is guaranteed beyond 2022 for him. 
 

mandatory minicamp is coming - I assume the browns will tell him to show up so he’s not fined but not participate? So bizarre. 

 

Teams no longer have the right to waive fines either. So Baker turns up or is fined. They are the only two options. 

[Gugny]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Teams no longer have the right to waive fines either. So Baker turns up or is fined. They are the only two options. 

 

What if he chooses to retire?

[Mango]

18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Browns are holding him hostage right now, because reportedly  teams are willing to trade for him if Browns pick up some of the salary and they won’t do it. They are waiting to find out how long Watson is suspended or if a team loses a QB and gets desperate. Sure they are entitled to this from a pure business sense but it’s a terrible look to players around the League. Mayfield knows he’s done in Cleveland and would want to latch on somewhere as soon as possible so he can start learning the offense, etc. so he has the best chance to be successful in a year where nothing is guaranteed beyond 2022 for him. 
 

mandatory minicamp is coming - I assume the browns will tell him to show up so he’s not fined but not participate? So bizarre. 

 

Right, it also definitely sucks for Baker as well. Don't get me wrong. But I would rather get it out of the way now rather than be stuck in a shirt storm on a long term deal. Part of my assumption is that the Browns don't tag him for eternity. 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Right, it also definitely sucks for Baker as well. Don't get me wrong. But I would rather get it out of the way now rather than be stuck in a shirt storm on a long term deal. Part of my assumption is that the Browns don't tag him for eternity. 

 

Must suck making $19 million a year...

[BarleyNY]

18 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

What if he chooses to retire?

His contract would toll.  The Browns probably could void his contract as well, but I’m not 100 on that. 

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Must suck making $19 million a year...

 

Right, I get it, $19M is a lot. But also Baker is the face of a $2.6B franchise, and has one of the important jobs in one of, if not the most profitable sports league on the planet. For that reason I have no problem with how much NFL players make and when you break it down that way, that Mahomes, Brady, Allen, etc. are the most important pieces of a business that generates $20B in revenue per year with a net worth of nearly $100B, they probably don't make enough. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Mango

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Right, I get it, $19M is a lot. But also Baker is the face of a $2.6B franchise, and has one of the important jobs in one of, if not the most profitable sports league on the planet. For that reason I have no problem with how much NFL players make and when you break it down that way, that Mahomes, Brady, Allen, etc. are the most important pieces of a business that generates $20B in revenue per year with a net worth of nearly $100B, they probably don't make enough. 

 

NFLPA needs to be better at negotiating then

[Mango]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

NFLPA needs to be better at negotiating then

 

I agree, they do....

[YoloinOhio]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Teams no longer have the right to waive fines either. So Baker turns up or is fined. They are the only two options. 

Yep, that’s why he would need to technically be there but not participate if they agree to that. 

[nucci]

33 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Must suck making $19 million a year...

No, that part doesn't. His situation does, though. 

[NewEra]

21 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

I should of passed on reading this thread.

If @Gene1973 is involved, always read the thread.  The more exposure you have, the easier it becomes.  You may actually find it entertaining. 
 

 

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

What if he chooses to retire?

 

Fair. He can do that. I have no idea what the rules are if he retires and then next year when he Browns deal has expired suddenly unretires? 

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Fair. He can do that. I have no idea what the rules are if he retires and then next year when he Browns deal has expired suddenly unretires? 

 

Yeah, I threw it out there because I have no idea how it would work.

[wjag]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Must suck making $19 million a year...

 

And not having to work for it. 

 

I think they should make a progressive commercial where he is lining and numbering the field and then hawking peanuts in the stands while the game is being played.