DT DaQuan Jones to Buffalo, $3.58M cap this year

[BullBuchanan]

23 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

This is much more than I anticipated. 

 

From 18-20 he had a 3 yr $21 MM contact he played out in Tennessee... last off season he signed in Carolina for 1 yr $4 MM... did he play that well to get this massive raise? 2yr for 14? 

 

Kind of head scratching.  This has a Mario Addisson overpay feel to it but I hope it works out, hard to gauge interior linemen. 

 

I don't get the hate for Addison. He still had 7 sacks this year and was a 9-11 sack per year guy when we signed him.

[ArtVandalay]

48 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I don't get the hate for Addison. He still had 7 sacks this year and was a 9-11 sack per year guy when we signed him.

Paying $10 MM a year for 12 sacks over 2 years for a specialty pass rusher and cutting him early is a bad contract...

 

Regardless, pick another example of your wish... Quinton Jefferson perhaps?

Edited March 16, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[BullBuchanan]

51 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Paying $10 MM a year for 12 sacks over 2 years for a specialty pass rusher and cutting him early is a bad contract...

 

Regardless, pick another example of your wish... Quinton Jefferson perhaps?

we've had plenty of poor DL signings, but Addison is frequently thrown under the bus here and I just find it weird. Especially so given how hard Hughes dropped off from when he was getting 10 sacks a year back in 2014.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

[CNY315]

 

[John from Riverside]

On 3/15/2022 at 1:25 PM, Mikie's Bills said:

Not cheap at all..

 

A lot of money tied up in non pass rushing DTs in Star and Jones

It’s like people don’t even watch the team and see what the actual problems Namely you

[NewEra]

On 3/16/2022 at 12:52 PM, BullBuchanan said:

I don't get the hate for Addison. He still had 7 sacks this year and was a 9-11 sack per year guy when we signed him.

He wasn’t good year one.  Much better in year 2.  

[Thurman#1]

On 3/15/2022 at 8:36 PM, RyanC883 said:

 

No need for the “you’d have to follow the team and have an adequate memory” garbage.  

 

And now we know there was a reason both players fell below their arbitrarily assigned average draft value.  Other GM‘s saw this, we didn’t.  And neither were BPA when drafted.  

 

AJ has shown no signs of improvement, Basham taken over an all pro OL.  

 

 

Nonsense.

 

We're two years in on Epenesa and one on Basham. We don't know yet who they will become.

 

And it really is true that at the time, both were considered bargains and probably were BPA when drafted. Just as quick examples, Daniel Jeremiah had him at #54 and Gil Brandt had him at #38. Those are the first two I checked. There are a million more out there, but that's a fair range for him, if I remember correctly.

 

Brandt had Epenesa at #40 and Jeremiah at #26.

 

BPA doesn't mean "guaranteed to become the best player available." There are no guarantees. It means something along the lines of "Best Prospect Available." Basham and Epenesa were among the one or two most highly valued players available at the time they were picked.

 

They may well both turn into excellent players. Or not. We'll have to see.

 

 

On 3/16/2022 at 9:48 AM, RyanC883 said:

 

Yes, if a bunch of "analysists" state that a player should go at 24, and he starts falling, there is generally a reason known to most GM's for that fall.  Rodgers is an outlier.  

 

The second part of the argument is that Bean had AJ too high on his board, same with Basham, if he actually took BPA, which I do not believe he did, and rather attacked what he felt were the best "edge" rushers left.  

 

 

Nah. Sometimes there is a reason a guy falls. Other times it's DK Metcalf.

 

Plenty of times it's not some one reason so much as many reasons, like Team A would like him but like another player just as much and the other guy is at a position of greater need. Or Team B's owner wants them to pick another guy. Or Team C has a terrific player at the position already whom they just signed to a long-term contract. Or Team D has the guy ranked very low, even though he turns out to be DK Metcalf.

 

Rodgers may be an outlier, but there are a ton of outliers out there. Brady, Rodgers, Metcalf, Maualuga, Justin Houston, DeSean Jackson, LeSean McCoy, Steven Jackson, Randy Moss, Thurman Thomas. Lots more out there.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

Rodgers may be an outlier, but there are a ton of outliers out there. Brady, Rodgers, Metcalf, Maualuga, Justin Houston, DeSean Jackson, LeSean McCoy, Steven Jackson, Randy Moss, Thurman Thomas. Lots more out there.

 

Every year player late in the 1st or in the 2nd or 3rd round outperform players who were drafted higher.  Lots of reasons for that, including difficulty projecting how a guy will adjust to the pro's, injury, self-motivation, coaching etc.

 

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

He wasn’t good year one.  Much better in year 2.  

 

Year 1 (2020) we were struggling at DT all season with Harrison coming back from his ACL and Lotulelei opting out.  Lack of push up the middle had an impact on the edges.

[Buffalo Ballin]

As long as these dudes can stuff the run and pressure the QB consistently then that is all that matters. Also, no more 13 seconds.

[Helpmenow]

On 3/16/2022 at 3:52 PM, BullBuchanan said:

I don't get the hate for Addison. He still had 7 sacks this year and was a 9-11 sack per year guy when we signed him.

I thought he chased the QB really good at times 

[machine gun kelly]

Addison is not as good as some people on the board indicate.  We did need to get younger and now we have lot of competition both inside and out.

[GolfandBills]

Should probably take off the "another panther" part of the title.  Beane/McDermott have zero affiliation with this player.  

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

Should probably take off the "another panther" part of the title.  Beane/McDermott have zero affiliation with this player.  

 

You could have a free agent that simply drove though North Carolina during a family trip to Florida, and some fans on this board would scream, "Another Panther connection!"

[GolfandBills]

Why was thus unpinned?  Mods don't approve of the signing?

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Tortured Soul]

This is a surprisingly rich contract.  $8.5 million cap his in 2023, only $1.5 million in savings if he's released.  They clearly preferred him to Harrison Phillips at the same money.

 

Bills are already down to $15 million in 2023 cap space, if the cap goes up $10 million.  And that's with Edmunds, Knox and Poyer as free agents. They must be counting on the cap going up a lot more than $10 million.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

Why was thus unpinned?  Mods don't approve of the signing?

 

I think some of us are just trying to triage the large number of pinned threads, and when we didn’t have the numbers this and Jordan Phillips seemed like the best candidates.  But now we have the numbers so….

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Tortured Soul said:

This is a surprisingly rich contract.  $8.5 million cap his in 2023, only $1.5 million in savings if he's released.  They clearly preferred him to Harrison Phillips at the same money.

 

Bills are already down to $15 million in 2023 cap space, if the cap goes up $10 million.  And that's with Edmunds, Knox and Poyer as free agents. They must be counting on the cap going up a lot more than $10 million.

Why wouldn’t they prefer him to Phillips?  He’s a better DT.  He’s way more durable.  He’s a better pass rusher. He’s HUGE. 
 

we’re going to be kicking cap down the road every year from now on.  There’s gonna be some tough times with the cap…..and then we’ll  kick some of the problems to the following year.  It’ll catch up at some point, but not for a few years and a hopefully a few lombardis. Enjoy it.  Don’t stress about future cap please. I won’t be able to deal with this board if we have people complaining about Beane going for it while allen is in his prime. It’s what the nfl is all about

[SCBills]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Why wouldn’t they prefer him to Phillips?  He’s a better DT.  He’s way more durable.  He’s a better pass rusher. He’s HUGE. 
 

we’re going to be kicking cap down the road every year from now on.  There’s gonna be some tough times with the cap…..and then we’ll  kick some of the problems to the following year.  It’ll catch up at some point, but not for a few years and a hopefully a few lombardis. Enjoy it.  Don’t stress about future cap please. I won’t be able to deal with this board if we have people complaining about Beane going for it while allen is in his prime. It’s what the nfl is all about

We honestly aren’t even at a point where we need to worry about it catching up to us.  At least not yet.  Teams typically carry an average of 14M in dead cap per year.  
 

Regardless, BUF/KC/LA etc., are all playing cap games because they can win now and the cap is set to explode down the line.   
 

In 3 years, Allen’s contract will be seen as a bargain, and the only reason anyone is worried about the cap is due to Von Miller’s big contract - which is essentially a 3 year commitment with minimal dead cap in Year 4 & 5, assuming we move off him at that point. 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by SCBills

[NewEra]

15 hours ago, SCBills said:

We honestly aren’t even at a point where we need to worry about it catching up to us.  At least not yet.  Teams typically carry an average of 14M in dead cap per year.  
 

Regardless, BUF/KC/LA etc., are all playing cap games because they can win now and the cap is set to explode down the line.   
 

In 3 years, Allen’s contract will be seen as a bargain, and the only reason anyone is worried about the cap is due to Von Miller’s big contract - which is essentially a 3 year commitment with minimal dead cap in Year 4 & 5, assuming we move off him at that point. 

 

Oh I agree. Just responding to someone saying that we’re already down to 15M next year. This was the first year that we really started to push money down the road.  We could have done the same thing last year to secure a Hendrickson, Judon, nqakoue etc. but we didn’t.  Had some wondering if Beane would ever do so.  He’s playing ball the way he should. I love it. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by NewEra

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

I get we're all pretty interested in how we're making these signings, but cap hit in the title?

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

2024 isn't voidable.... it is void. It voids automatically 23 days before the 2024 league year begins. There is no base salary on the contract that year which would breach league rules if it were ever relied on, which it won't be. Voidable is when there is either a team or player option to void. 

 

Might seem pedantic but it is an important distinction.

[No_Matter_What]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

2024 isn't voidable.... it is void. It voids automatically 23 days before the 2024 league year begins. There is no base salary on the contract that year which would breach league rules if it were ever relied on, which it won't be. Voidable is when there is either a team or player option to void. 

 

Might seem pedantic but it is an important distinction.

Yeah it is really interesting that Sal doesn't know that (or doesn't care enough). Or maybe he is right and sportrac wrong but I doubt that.

 

Anyway, let's hope that he will be worth the contract. Cap hit next year is quite big for 1T DT and we essentialy can't cut him if he doesn't perform year one - or we can, but with brutal dead cap, numbers are almost the same as wtih Star this year.

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Yeah it is really interesting that Sal doesn't know that (or doesn't care enough). Or maybe he is right and sportrac wrong but I doubt that.

 

Anyway, let's hope that he will be worth the contract. Cap hit next year is quite big for 1T DT and we essentialy can't cut him if he doesn't perform year one - or we can, but with brutal dead cap, numbers are almost the same as wtih Star this year.

 

Yea it is a genuine 2yrs $14m the way it is structured. It is a slightly bigger deal than I was expecting.

[No_Matter_What]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea it is a genuine 2yrs $14m the way it is structured. It is a slightly bigger deal than I was expecting.

You mean slighly better than you expected when you heard that we had signed Jones or the structure is better than expected after you heard 14/2? In other words, do you think we got value here?

 

EDIT: Nevermind you wrote "bigger" not "better"  So that answers my question.

Edited March 20, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[GolfandBills]

6 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said:

I get we're all pretty interested in how we're making these signings, but cap hit in the title?

Poor DaQuan was unpinned all day yesterday now he gets the ‘cap hit’ by his name 

[Mark Long Beach]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea it is a genuine 2yrs $14m the way it is structured. It is a slightly bigger deal than I was expecting.

 

Yes, it is a little higher, but to be fair, his previous contract for Tenn was 3 year $21m so it's only a single down contract year at Carolina.    Of course, it's also always more expensive to sign the first days of free agency.    I'm willing to pay for a higher likelihood of player quality.

 

He can easily earn it though.   He does look like the player type we need, *fingers crossed*.

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea it is a genuine 2yrs $14m the way it is structured. It is a slightly bigger deal than I was expecting.

Agreed.  I was shocked when I saw the numbers. I like the player.  I like the fit.  I thought we should’ve been able to get him cheaper, but I’m glad we got the guy.  I love our DL.  But bring back Jerry!!  
 

——I know Jerry’s gone.  Just hoping for another year with him.  He’s 100X better than AJ and Basham.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Mark Long Beach said:

 

Yes, it is a little higher, but to be fair, his previous contract for Tenn was 3 year $21m so it's only a single down contract year at Carolina.    Of course, it's also always more expensive to sign the first days of free agency.    I'm willing to pay for a higher likelihood of player quality.

 

He can easily earn it though.   He does look like the player type we need, *fingers crossed*.

 

Yep. And last year there were more vets who had to take reduced deals because of the covid effect on the cap. I don't think it is hugely out of kilter in terms of AAV... I would have said $5m to $6m, it is $7m but the structure means hw will see all the money. That is more the bit that was a surprise. 

 

I do think he is an excellent fit though. He, Phillips and Settle should be upgrades on Butler, Star and Harry. Think we all agreed that DT position needed work. 

[Mark Long Beach]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. And last year there were more vets who had to take reduced deals because of the covid effect on the cap. I don't think it is hugely out of kilter in terms of AAV... I would have said $5m to $6m, it is $7m but the structure means hw will see all the money. That is more the bit that was a surprise. 

 

I do think he is an excellent fit though. He, Phillips and Settle should be upgrades on Butler, Star and Harry. Think we all agreed that DT position needed work. 

This past year with Harry and Star was still SO much better than 2020.  That was a disaster in the middle and pretty weak on the outside.

 

Even though we were top in Defensive statistics, to truly make our defense work we need strong front 4.  A dominant front 4 can push our D to another level.   Fingers crossed that we can get some good enough CBs.   Any defense can fall apart if the CBs are crap.   Even ours which is designed to cover for potentially weaker CBs

[John from Riverside]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea it is a genuine 2yrs $14m the way it is structured. It is a slightly bigger deal than I was expecting.

I look at that contract and it says to me "this guy is going to be a difference maker" on our DL.......we kept getting pushed around last year at the LOS

[GolfandBills]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I look at that contract and it says to me "this guy is going to be a difference maker" on our DL.......we kept getting pushed around last year at the LOS

I agree.  At this point he’s an upgrade over Star with a little more pass rush ability.  Low cap hit this year and slightly higher next year when the cap goes up again.  I’m excited for him.  

Edited March 21, 2022 by GolfandBills

[Warcodered]

 

[Mikie's Bills]

On 3/21/2022 at 2:09 AM, GolfandBills said:

I agree.  At this point he’s an upgrade over Star with a little more pass rush ability.  Low cap hit this year and slightly higher next year when the cap goes up again.  I’m excited for him.  

He's getting paid less than Vernon Butler when he signed here.

 

I'm tempering expectations when this regime hasn't proven they can identify quality free agent DTs. Star, Butler, and Jefferson all under performed their contracts.

[Dablitzkrieg]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

Had no idea he was from Johnson City

[YoloinOhio]

Jones, Shaq and Crowder all had media sessions today and everything got overshadowed by the Tyreek Hill trade. I will pull some of the quotes 

Edited March 24, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Warcodered]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Jones, Shaq and Crowder all had media sessions today and everything got overshadowed by the Tyreek Hill trade. I will pull some of the quotes 

They didn't put them on Bills twitter and haven't put the OneBills live interviews on YouTube yet either.

[Warcodered]

 

[T master]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:41 PM, SCBills said:

Love the signings of Tim Settle and Daquan Jones. 
 

Two very solid DT’s for the rotation.  Allows Oliver to be Oliver. 

 

That will work out great for Ed he will have a banner year & demand top NFL money & the Bills won't be able to keep him .

 

Between Oliver & Edmonds there will be some lucky teams in the NFL that will have some nice pricey players they can pick up & pay after next year unless the cap makes one hell of a jump .