Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Good Lord....just watch the Steeler and final Jets game. Haack is terrible. I could care less if he magically spins the ball perfectly for Bass. We lost home field advantage by 1 game. His net was dead last at 37.6, so excuse me if I'm willing to call it a day on Haack and spend a 5th or 6th pick on a better punter. Anyone can be trained to hold kicks. If I can give our defense an extra 5-7 yards of field position I will. First off I'm fine with drafting a punter in the 5th or 6th. But don't think punting is nearly as important as holding, not with this offense. You state anyone can be trained to hold. Well the reality is there will be one guy only holding, the punter so he's the one who will need to be trained. Not saying a rookie can't be good at it, but to me that's more important than a couple more yards. The difference between Haack and the top punter on net yards is around 7 yards, but comparing to the top in the league is unrealistic. Compare to the league average is better, then the difference drops to 3 yards 21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: That's not going to happen. See above. Bojo + Bass: missed 3 of their first 9 FG. After week 6, they went 22/25, getting Bass to a Bills record breaking season--as a rookie. Seemed like he was worse last year in Green Bay. Edited April 17, 2022 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Just to add to this discussion, and I have mentioned it in other places. Haack holds the way he does because he was a wide receiver in high school who happened to be really good at punting. But he was like an all state position player or something. So he can catch a football. He isn’t just a soccer kid. Matt Araiza was a defensive back in high school who was really good at kicking and punting. So one would assume he can catch a football, worked on jugs machines etc before. He isn’t a just a soccer kid. So in my mind, I assume he will be a fine holder. I like punters who were football players growing up. They have to hold, tackle, run, sometimes throw the ball. Not jacked up soccer kids who used their legs their whole lives and never caught a football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I think they value points above all. And I think that is why Haack is still here. Field goals and extra points have to be close to automatic. With Bojo they weren’t and he almost single handedly ruined the career of Mason Crosby. But I agree, accuracy over power. Now if they can find accuracy, power, and holding, they are in business. When Crosby attempts over 30 FG a year, his FGM % drops from 86.7% to 77.9%. He attempted 34 last season. He's 26th among active kickers with a career FG% of 81.1%. He's had only 3 seasons out of 15 in the top 10 for FG%. It wasn't Bojo... 13 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: First off I'm fine with drafting a punter in the 5th or 6th. But don't think punting is nearly as important as holding, not with this offense. You state anyone can be trained to hold. Well the reality is there will be one guy only holding, the punter so he's the one who will need to be trained. Not saying a rookie can't be good at it, but to me that's more important than a couple more yards. The difference between Haack and the top punter on net yards is around 7 yards, but comparing to the top in the league is unrealistic. Compare to the league average is better, then the difference drops to 3 yards Seemed like he was worse last year in Green Bay. see above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Agree need to draft a punter. 5th round is where to do it. Late 4th round only if you move your 5th round pick up. Barring a trade down the Bills need all four of their 1-4 round picks on position players - CB, OT, NT, WR assuming they don't trade Edmunds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) I have never seen such an absurd love affair for a friggin punter. As others have pointed out, he’s not even the best punter coming out in the draft! He has the strongest leg, but does not actually, ya know, PUNT as effectively as others. I don’t know if it’s residual Brian Moorman fetishism or what, but Bills fans should get past the punter obsession, and past the idea of overspending on Araiza. If Beane drafts a punter in round four, I’ll eat my hat. Jordan Stout, from Pegula’s alma mater, and who was a better college punter than Araiza, has a much better chance of being a Bill…likely sometime between round 6 and UDFA. Edited April 17, 2022 by Logic 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcalbillsfan Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 On 3/2/2022 at 5:37 PM, LABILLBACKER said: We basically lost the Steeler game because of Haack. And in week 17 Haack had punts of 28, 22 & 7, while the Jets punter averaged 50 yards. This Araiza kid is supposed to be pretty amazing. I realize you can use the argument that our offense is so good, do we really need a great punter? A 4th might be a little rich but if he's there in the early 5th, I'd grab him. We're moving on from Haack and you can train Araiza to hold Bass's kicks. If Bass got hurt, Araiza can also kick fgs. Haack probably had one of the worst single games for a punter in nfl history, he often hurts the bills more than helps and can't be an option to return. That being said the value we can get at other positions in the 4th is too valuable to this teams future to use on a punter. We can find future starters on the iol in the 4th and that value is much higher than a punter. I wouldn't mind araiza even though he's a complete question mark at holding, but I can't swallow anything earlier than a 5th for a punter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor26 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 Araiza kicked over 31% of his punts for touchbacks last year in college. Give me a guy like Stout or the Georgia punter who can drop it inside the 20 with superior hang time over a guy who just kicks it as hard as he can each time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 4 hours ago, Logic said: I have never seen such an absurd love affair for a friggin punter. As others have pointed out, he’s not even the best punter coming out in the draft! He has the strongest leg, but does not actually, ya know, PUNT as effectively as others. I don’t know if it’s residual Brian Moorman fetishism or what, but Bills fans should get past the punter obsession, and past the idea of overspending on Araiza. If Beane drafts a punter in round four, I’ll eat my hat. Jordan Stout, from Pegula’s alma mater, and who was a better college punter than Araiza, has a much better chance of being a Bill…likely sometime between round 6 and UDFA. He's the punter everyone has heard of, so every fan of teams that need a punter mock him to their teams in like the 5th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said: Haack probably had one of the worst single games for a punter in nfl history, he often hurts the bills more than helps and can't be an option to return. That being said the value we can get at other positions in the 4th is too valuable to this teams future to use on a punter. We can find future starters on the iol in the 4th and that value is much higher than a punter. I wouldn't mind araiza even though he's a complete question mark at holding, but I can't swallow anything earlier than a 5th for a punter. Yes, but the crowd reaction when Haack FINNALLY ended his 3 kick shank streak was one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. 1 hour ago, Motor26 said: Araiza kicked over 31% of his punts for touchbacks last year in college. Give me a guy like Stout or the Georgia punter who can drop it inside the 20 with superior hang time over a guy who just kicks it as hard as he can each time. I agree with this, and going by comments McD has made in the past about wanting a guy who can consistently hit it 40 over a guy who can occasionally hit it 80, it wouldn’t shock me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Costa Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 He’s the PUNT GOD 😱😱😱. Need to draft him in the Second Round . Hurry 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 17, 2022 Share Posted April 17, 2022 8 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: Just to add to this discussion, and I have mentioned it in other places. Haack holds the way he does because he was a wide receiver in high school who happened to be really good at punting. But he was like an all state position player or something. So he can catch a football. He isn’t just a soccer kid. Matt Araiza was a defensive back in high school who was really good at kicking and punting. So one would assume he can catch a football, worked on jugs machines etc before. He isn’t a just a soccer kid. So in my mind, I assume he will be a fine holder. I like punters who were football players growing up. They have to hold, tackle, run, sometimes throw the ball. Not jacked up soccer kids who used their legs their whole lives and never caught a football. Most professional punters don't struggle catching the snap They catch snaps from The Long snapper all day... What some do struggle at is getting the ball on the spot to kicker says and getting the laces out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 I think we need a new punter. Haack sucks. But I wouldn't spend more than a 7th round pick on one. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 13 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Most professional punters don't struggle catching the snap They catch snaps from The Long snapper all day... What some do struggle at is getting the ball on the spot to kicker says and getting the laces out Yeah I agree. Some are better than most, like Haack. But if a guy can't do that job consistently well, he should be out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think we need a new punter. Haack sucks. But I wouldn't spend more than a 7th round pick on one. Because it’s a punter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 18, 2022 Share Posted April 18, 2022 Bills need to make whatever punter that draft is willing to work during off-season on holding and other parts of his craft for the Bills have no one with experience with kicking which surprises me considering the Pegulas have been very generous on staff for coaching staff and front office. The best punter would be a player who was an athlete who choose to kick to get a scholarship to go to college. Such players can usually handle secondary duties like handling poorly snapped balls, being last man tackling on returns and making something out of nothing when OL does not hold up on kicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeBreton Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 I was hoping the Bills would draft Stout in round 6, hopefully he makes it there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, CapeBreton said: I was hoping the Bills would draft Stout in round 6, hopefully he makes it there. I just hope they come away with one of them somewhere in this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeBreton Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I just hope they come away with one of them somewhere in this draft. If not Araiza or Stout, there are other worthy punters apparently. Would be nice to get one with holding experience. I believe Araiza/Stout were both punters/kickers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Costa Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 I personally want Jordan Stout 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) 4th round or later. 3rd is just too high for me, even the end of the 3rd. 4th is very high, but I could be convinced it's the right move. We have our kicker. If we can get our punter for the next 15-20 years, that would be a big benefit to the team. Then again, if everyone is focused on this one prospect, maybe that means other good prospects have been overlooked and they can draft one late or sign a good punter as an undrafted rookie free agent. Edited April 28, 2022 by MJS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 On 4/17/2022 at 12:31 PM, Logic said: Jordan Stout, from Pegula’s alma mater, and who was a better college punter than Araiza, has a much better chance of being a Bill…likely sometime between round 6 and UDFA. I'll take him, thank you. And kicked FGs. Excelled in inclement weather too. A true "punt God" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: I'll take him, thank you. And kicked FGs. Excelled in inclement weather too. A true "punt God" I read a Tweet today that multiple teams have him ranked ahead of "Punt God" Araiza. Might have to take him in the 5th. In any case, there are apparently about five legitimately draftable punters in this year's class. I hope the Bills end up with one of them, Stout being my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 In all serious, I have no issues drafting a Punter in rounds 6 or 7 over a developmental practice squad player who may get poached again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 1 hour ago, MJS said: 3rd is just too high for me, even the end of the 3rd. 4th is very high, but I could be convinced it's the right move. 😎 Our FG Specialist, who was a leg God too, was drafted in the 6th Rd. And he was 6th in the league in scoring in 2021! No way Bills use pick above 6th round on a punter this year IMHO. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/p For perspective only 30 punters have been drafted in the last 15 years. 14 of those were in Rds 6 or 7. And only 3 punters were even drafted over last 2 seasons- all late picks. In 2021, Pressly Harvin was 7th rd, pick 254 by Steelers so almost Mr. Irrelevant 2021 - and he was lone punter selected. Of the 16 Punters taken in Rd 5 or higher over last 15 years, only 2 Bailey and Dickson, have been 1st team All-Pro. There have been 8 Pro bowlers, only 3 of which were taken in rd 5 or higher. My takeaway, please draft a punter on day 3, preferably in Rd 6 or 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 Araiza will be long gone by the end of the 5th. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Araiza will be long gone by the end of the 5th. Good. Not too interested in a punter who doesn't hold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 How is Jordan Stout’s nickname not ‘Punt Jesus?’ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: How is Jordan Stout’s nickname not ‘Punt Jesus?’ Because he is a righty! Jesus was a lefty. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 49 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Because he is a righty! Jesus was a lefty. Dyslexic Punt Jesus! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBoots8 Posted April 30, 2022 Author Share Posted April 30, 2022 Ok, I called the run on punters in the 4th, just not for our guy lol. I’m glad we got him, even happier that we didn’t have to move up for him. Draft has shaken out pretty well for us overall and I hope he is as advertised. AMEN lol 😂 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDingus Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 Still can't believe there were people advocating for us to take a punter in the first 3 rounds... Glad we have professionals like Beane & not fans (me included) running the show 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 On 3/2/2022 at 7:01 PM, KingBoots8 said: So, we obviously have a few needs to address like lost teams in the draft. With where we are picking, it’ll likely be the 3rd or 4th best player in their respective position in Round 1. We have a few players on Defense who were early picks and have been rotational in our system, which I am fine with as they get acclimated to the NFL. That being said, Punter is a definite need for this team. Haack certainly had some ugly punts this year, and while I don’t think we will or should address punter in round 1, it does beg the question on where we could potentially select him. This isn’t just some kid with a decent leg- he’s the holder of multiple NCAA record and has an average of over 50 yards per punt. He’s a legitimate generational talent at his position, and could significantly help the special teams in pinning back our opponents. If we were to go for him, what round do you feel comfortable taking him, and so you think he will last that long? I’d be totally fine in round 4 if he lasts that long, or moving a few late rounders to get back into the end of round 3 Great job of scouting, very impressive! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 On 4/28/2022 at 1:33 PM, SWATeam said: Good. Not too interested in a punter who doesn't hold. Arazia will be fine holding. He's a very good athlete, and didn't hold in college bc he was a kicker his first three years. He's been training on holding this off season with former NFL kickers, and he seems to have a better attitude than Bojo. Also very competitive. Very intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.