Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Now that all the HC spots are taken, I would take Flores and dump Frazier.  Flores is a better DC and would have a better chance of getting a HC job next off-season.  

Not.  A.  Chance

 

 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

.

 

 

Not.  A.  Chance

 

 

 

Why would you hire a guy with the idea that he would be done after one season?  I can understand frustration with the defense based upon the way our season ended, but I really don’t get the hate for a top rated defense. They were not perfect, but they were pretty darn good. 

[uticaclub]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Why would you hire a guy with the idea that he would be done after one season?  I can understand frustration with the defense based upon the way our season ended, but I really don’t get the hate for a top rated defense. They were not perfect, but they were pretty darn good. 

They weren't good enough.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Why would you hire a guy with the idea that he would be done after one season?  I can understand frustration with the defense based upon the way our season ended, but I really don’t get the hate for a top rated defense. They were not perfect, but they were pretty darn good. 

The idea that the Bills would kick a guy who has worked his ass off for 5 years to the curb in favor of a hotheaded young punk who is suing the league and several teams and just trashed a fellow Black coach in public by implying he couldn’t possibly be preferred for any professional traits ……all I’d be able to say would be “process….I do not think that word means what I think it means”

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

They weren't good enough.

 

My advice: Stop whining. They lost. They made mistakes late in the KC game. It was awful, but I’ll take them coming back next year and hope they learn from the mistakes. In the end…..only ONE TEAM is “good enough”.  I’ll take what we have over some over-reactionary thing we paste together. ESPECIALLY if people want a DC who is only expected to stay one year. I can’t accept being that short sighted. 

 

 

. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Augie

[uticaclub]

Just now, Augie said:

 

Stop whining. They lost. They made mistakes late in the KC game. It was awful, but I’ll take them coming back next year and hope they learn from the mistakes. In the end…..only ONE TEAM is “good enough”.  I’ll take what we have over some over-reactionary thing we paste together. ESPECIALLY if people want a DC who is only expected to stay one year. I can’t accept being that short sighted. 

Our front 7 other than Oliver and Milano are all replacement level players and the entire defense crumbled against elite talent (Henry, Taylor, Mahomes). We played some piss poor QBs and offenses in the regular season to pad the stats. This defense needs a ton of work if they want to be championship level. Pretty darn good isnt good enough

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

They weren't good enough.

 

Neither was Flores

[billieve420]

33 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Dolphins want us to believe that Flores had poor relationships and didn't work well with others? 

 

I can't see it.

Would make sense but not all those reports came after he was fired. Seems Flores had issues with people throughout the organization including their QB they wanted to build around. 
 

Edited February 8, 2022 by billieve420

[uticaclub]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Neither was Flores

I dont want Flores. The post said our defense was “pretty darn good”. I actually forgot this was a Flores thread. I guess im the #######

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Our front 7 other than Oliver and Milano are all replacement level players and the entire defense crumbled against elite talent (Henry, Taylor, Mahomes). We played some piss poor QBs and offenses in the regular season to pad the stats. This defense needs a ton of work if they want to be championship level. Pretty darn good isnt good enough

There is always room for improvement, even for the top rated defense in the league. 

 

Were you always first in your class? I doubt it. The Bills had the top rated defense in the NFL. Things went sideways, I get it. Every team can get better, that is not a newsflash. That is stating the obvious. 

 

EDIT: If our players are only ordinary, according to you, even MORE credit should be given to the coaching and scheme. I think you are only  hurting your argument. 

 

 

.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Augie

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

I dont want Flores. The post said our defense was “pretty darn good”. I actually forgot this was a Flores thread. I guess im the #######

 

You came into a sub thread suggesting we kick Frazier to the curb and hire Flores for a year as a solution to “not good enough”

I think your take that there needs to be an upgrade in talent is closer to a reasonable take

 

There are other thoughts but if the question is “what will lift us the final distance?” I don’t think Brian Flores is the answer

[YoloinOhio]

26 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Why would you hire a guy with the idea that he would be done after one season?  I can understand frustration with the defense based upon the way our season ended, but I really don’t get the hate for a top rated defense. They were not perfect, but they were pretty darn good. 

Missing their all pro corner too 

[TheFunPolice]

6 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Would make sense but not all those reports came after he was fired. Seems Flores had issues with people throughout the organization including their QB they wanted to build around. 
 

 

I know, I was being sarcastic!  It seems like Flores has an issue with everyone.

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Missing their all pro corner too 

against one of the toughest to stop offenses in the NFL.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

59 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Love Frazier. I'd take Frazier all day. Frazier is a wonderful guy. Loyal, caring, patience, humble and lots more.

What does any of that have to do with winning?  

[JoshAllin]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Now that all the HC spots are taken, I would take Flores and dump Frazier.  Flores is a better DC and would have a better chance of getting a HC job next off-season.  

You think he'd get along well with a McD half led defense?

[stuvian]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/07/brian-flores-litigation-could-provide-a-path-to-more-washington-emails/

 

the lawsuit alleges that the Raiders became more white under Gruden and Mayock. This is getting twilight zone weird 

[billsfan1959]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

What does any of that have to do with winning?  

 

So let me see, Flores, the guy you are suggesting to replace Frazier:

 

Has none of those qualities the poster mentioned (Loyal, caring, patience, humble)

Is currently unemployed after being fired with a losing record

Didn't make the playoffs in 3 years as a head coach

In the two games he played over the last two years where a win would have resulted in a playoff berth, his defenses gave up 90 points (45 point) average 

Against top 15 scoring offenses over the last two years, his defenses were regularly beaten like they were victims of Alvin Kamara

 

[stuvian]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lawyers-say-texans-only-hired-lovie-smith-over-brian-flores-because-of-ex-dolphins-coachs-lawsuit-vs-nfl/

 

now that he's rendered himself unemployable, he's complaining about it

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Being someone that has followed the growth of stats in baseball and other sports I find the misuse of the term below especially annoying! 

 

Replacement level is simply the level of production you could get from a player that would cost you nothing but the league minimum salary to acquire. The concept is pretty tidy. These are the players that are freely available and if five of your NFL level players came down with the flu, you could go out and acquire replacement level players without really giving up anything you value other than their union mandated payday.

In other words, if you had no one on your roster  and just needed to populate a team, you’re generally signing replacement level players. -summarized from FanGraphs

 

I've seen this term thrown around on here a lot to reference anyone you don't think is good enough, average,  are pissed at and thnk is overpaid or actually a pretty good player and you don't know what you're talking about......etc. When in reality if you are deemed a starter in the NFL, especially for a quality team, you are likely not a replacement level player.

 

[bigduke6]

crappy deal for Flores,   this is on Ross tho.    Flores did the honorable thing standing up to his boss,   but in the end,  the boss,  is the boss.     Boss wants to cheat,  u dont,  yer probably getting replaced.    then if u go loud about it,  no other boss will ever hire u.    song as old as time.   

 

can only do 2 things,   keep your mouth shut and take it,  or do the lawsuit and mbe get some shut up money out of the NFL.   gl Brian.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, stuvian said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lawyers-say-texans-only-hired-lovie-smith-over-brian-flores-because-of-ex-dolphins-coachs-lawsuit-vs-nfl/

 

now that he's rendered himself unemployable, he's complaining about it

 

I know, right?  Right in the lawsuit, as well as in various appearances, Flores says that he realizes the lawsuit may impact his future employment chances.

Now he's saying it actually did what he said it would do, so like, Durr?

 

The thing that chaps me is spouting that clearly the only reason the Texans wouldn't hire him was the lawsuit.  Whatever his personal opinion of Lovie Smith may be, the guy took Rex Grossman and the Bears to a Superbowl.  He was on the team last season.  He had Josh McCown as his QB so if the Texans hired him, maybe he agreed to take McCown as QB coach or OC. 

 

There could be a bunch of reasons (good and bad) why the Texans would prefer him to Flores, besides the lawsuit, and it's pretty demeaning to Smith (IMO) to say otherwise.

[TheFunPolice]

Texans have an easy response:

 

Actually Mr. Flores, Lovie Smith is actually (on paper) more qualified you:

 

Super Bowl appearances as HC: Smith 1, Flores 0

Career winning percentage as a HC: Smith .506, Flores .490 (and that's with Lovie having 2 terrible years in Tampa to bring him down)

Playoff appearances as HC: Smith 3, Flores 0

Playoff wins as a HC: Smith 3, Flores 0

Conference Title appearances as a HC: Smith 2, Flores 0

Years of head coaching experience (NFL only) as a HC: Smith 11, Flores 3

 

Now, it could be said that Flores has upside and Lovie is a bit of a retread, but it isn't some massive injustice that Lovie Smith was chosen over Brian Flores.

 

Not only does Lovie have a better resume, but he also has familiarity with the players and the Church of Easterby that runs the team. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Bob in STL]

29 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Texans have an easy response:

 

Actually Mr. Flores, Lovie Smith is actually (on paper) more qualified you:

 

Super Bowl appearances as HC: Smith 1, Flores 0

Career winning percentage as a HC: Smith .506, Flores .490 (and that's with Lovie having 2 terrible years in Tampa to bring him down)

Playoff appearances as HC: Smith 3, Flores 0

Playoff wins as a HC: Smith 3, Flores 0

Conference Title appearances as a HC: Smith 2, Flores 0

Years of head coaching experience (NFL only) as a HC: Smith 11, Flores 3

 

Now, it could be said that Flores has upside and Lovie is a bit of a retread, but it isn't some massive injustice that Lovie Smith was chosen over Brian Flores.

 

Not only does Lovie have a better resume, but he also has familiarity with the players and the Church of Easterby that runs the team. 

 

 

Thank you.  Lovie Smith has a much better head coaching resume and there it is.  
 

Flores is playing the victim now, completing his prophecy.  Smith is the kind of stable leader that might actually stop the bleeding down in Houston.   Flores has made himself a lightning rod for controversy.   I would not hire Flores right now with this lawsuit opened. Talk about a distraction.   
 

It was easy to understand why the Giants wanted Daboll over Flores.  It is all about the “perception” that Daboll can develop another QB in a league were QB is everything.   Daboll’s handling of Allen is the ace in his hand, Flores’ handling of Tua is one of his key question marks.  So if developing a QB and installing a modern NFL offense was a major requirement for the Giants, then Daboll over Flores is not a surprise and it has nothing to do with race.   
 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Bob in STL

[BuffaloBillyG]

49 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

crappy deal for Flores,   this is on Ross tho.    Flores did the honorable thing standing up to his boss,   but in the end,  the boss,  is the boss.     Boss wants to cheat,  u dont,  yer probably getting replaced.    then if u go loud about it,  no other boss will ever hire u.    song as old as time.   

 

can only do 2 things,   keep your mouth shut and take it,  or do the lawsuit and mbe get some shut up money out of the NFL.   gl Brian.

Here's the thing though. He didn't stand up for squat. Not really any "honor" in continuing to collect millions of dollars in salary for 2 years and only mentioning the possible bribe when he's ousted. 

 

I mentioned this in another thread. Change 1 thing...let's say the Dolphins picked Herbert over Tua. There would be an excellent chance they don't start 1-7, they actually make it to the playoffs and Flores, instead of being fired is being looked at for an extension. Do you think ANY of this sees the light of day in that scenario? Or do you think he continues to show a personal lack of integrity, stay with Miami and continue collecting his money?

 

Let's also take into consideration that Flores was a member of the NE Patriot organization since 2004. Was there during a good number of their scandals. Let's just say that possibly integrity, honor and morals may not be something that are in his playbook.

 

[Albany,n.y.]

4 hours ago, stuvian said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lawyers-say-texans-only-hired-lovie-smith-over-brian-flores-because-of-ex-dolphins-coachs-lawsuit-vs-nfl/

 

now that he's rendered himself unemployable, he's complaining about it

Here's how I responded to this story on Facebook, keeping it simple for the non-football crowd:

 

Brian Flores & his lawyers are a bunch of idiots-they deserve each other! Flores is a great coach , in his own mind, but on the sidelines he's not very good. I've seen his teams quit on him numerous times (see what happens whenever they played the Buffalo Bills). Here's what the interview process was like. Houston: Brian, how did you lose the 2020 seaaon finale 56-26 to a bunch of 2nd & 3rd stringers?  It looks like your team ran for the bus & you were the driver. Flores: Humina, Humina, Humina. Brian, you never made the playoffs. Flores Humina, Humina, Humina. Lovie Smith: I'll start this interview with this: I got the Chicago Bears into the Super Bowl. Mike drop, Lovie hired.

 

Actually Flores did have a hand in Lovie getting the job: If Flores didn't put pressure on Houston & the NFL, the Texans would have hired the guy they really wanted to be their coach-Josh McCown, a recently retired QB with no pro or college coaching experience. After Flores lawsuit, the Texans couldn't get away with that & instead decided to promote their DC who has a long resume, including that Super Bowl appearance, and nobody except Flores and his lawyers can question Lovie Smith's qualifications.

 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Being someone that has followed the growth of stats in baseball and other sports I find the misuse of the term below especially annoying! 

 

Replacement level is simply the level of production you could get from a player that would cost you nothing but the league minimum salary to acquire. The concept is pretty tidy. These are the players that are freely available and if five of your NFL level players came down with the flu, you could go out and acquire replacement level players without really giving up anything you value other than their union mandated payday.

In other words, if you had no one on your roster  and just needed to populate a team, you’re generally signing replacement level players. -summarized from FanGraphs

 

I've seen this term thrown around on here a lot to reference anyone you don't think is good enough, average,  are pissed at and thnk is overpaid or actually a pretty good player and you don't know what you're talking about......etc. When in reality if you are deemed a starter in the NFL, especially for a quality team, you are likely not a replacement level player.

 

For those interested in diving deeper: https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/war/replacement-level/

[julian]

7 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

So let me see, Flores, the guy you are suggesting to replace Frazier:

 

Has none of those qualities the poster mentioned (Loyal, caring, patience, humble)

Is currently unemployed after being fired with a losing record

Didn't make the playoffs in 3 years as a head coach

In the two games he played over the last two years where a win would have resulted in a playoff berth, his defenses gave up 90 points (45 point) average 

Against top 15 scoring offenses over the last two years, his defenses were regularly beaten like they were victims of Alvin Kamara

 

But the media love him… so he’s good

[billsfan1959]

On 2/6/2022 at 5:46 PM, Limeaid said:

And Jacksonville's coach is an ethnic minority who has hired 5 head white coaches in row.   

 

While rules and articles state minority what they mean is black.  This is as prejudiced as what they claim they are fighting.  No mention of Ron Rivera in article.

 

Point of example is an AP article which 

https://pro32.ap.org/article/nfl-bolster-inclusion-policies-probe-tanking-allegations

 

On 2/6/2022 at 5:46 PM, Limeaid said:

Quote: 

Lawyers Douglas H. Wigdor and John Elefterakis, who represent Flores, said they were skeptical that Goodell's memo would lead to meaningful changes and called on a court or government agency to appoint a federal monitor to oversee the league.

“For too many years, the NFL has hidden behind the cover of foundations that were supposed to protect the rights of Black players and coaches, as well as law firms and experts that purport to be unbiased an independent but are paid for by the NFL," the attorneys said in their statement. “All the while, systemic racial bias has festered in the NFL's front offices.”

 

I listened to Wigdor in a couple of interviews condescendingly lecture the NFL about the lack of black representation in head coaching and management positions being evidence, in and of itself, of systemic racism.

 

Wigdors law firm:

 

 

I think this falls under that whole "People who live in glass houses..." thing

[Warcodered]

 

[zow2]

on the FS1 show, Speak for Yourself....Marcellus Wiley and Acho are killing Flores and his lawyers today.

[Doc]

Way to destroy any remaining sympathy you may have had, Bri.

[TheFunPolice]

So when do the Congressional hearings start, and has anyone checked on Florio to see if he is OK? 

 

He was SO EXCITED that this might bring the NFL to its knees a week ago. He must be despondent right now.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

 

I listened to Wigdor in a couple of interviews condescendingly lecture the NFL about the lack of black representation in head coaching and management positions being evidence, in and of itself, of systemic racism.

 

Wigdors law firm:

 

 

I think this falls under that whole "People who live in glass houses..." thing

Why would Flores higher this firm.  There has to be equally qualified firms that hire minorities. 

[billsfan1959]

21 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Why would Flores higher this firm.  There has to be equally qualified firms that hire minorities. 

 

Apparently, his indignation at lack of minority representation ends where the possibility of getting millions out of the NFL begins....

[Hsker4life]

Flores seems like a head-case. It’s always everyone else’s fault, never his. I’d stay far away from him. 

[boater]

Ooooo weeee 72 pages and still going strong. I guess we know what keeps people riveted. If SDS has monetized TSW, he's a genius (I use an ad blocker, so I don't know).

[stuvian]

8 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Here's how I responded to this story on Facebook, keeping it simple for the non-football crowd:

 

Brian Flores & his lawyers are a bunch of idiots-they deserve each other! Flores is a great coach , in his own mind, but on the sidelines he's not very good. I've seen his teams quit on him numerous times (see what happens whenever they played the Buffalo Bills). Here's what the interview process was like. Houston: Brian, how did you lose the 2020 seaaon finale 56-26 to a bunch of 2nd & 3rd stringers?  It looks like your team ran for the bus & you were the driver. Flores: Humina, Humina, Humina. Brian, you never made the playoffs. Flores Humina, Humina, Humina. Lovie Smith: I'll start this interview with this: I got the Chicago Bears into the Super Bowl. Mike drop, Lovie hired.

 

Actually Flores did have a hand in Lovie getting the job: If Flores didn't put pressure on Houston & the NFL, the Texans would have hired the guy they really wanted to be their coach-Josh McCown, a recently retired QB with no pro or college coaching experience. After Flores lawsuit, the Texans couldn't get away with that & instead decided to promote their DC who has a long resume, including that Super Bowl appearance, and nobody except Flores and his lawyers can question Lovie Smith's qualifications.

 

interesting hypothesis. Why would Houston feel pressure to hire a black coach but not New Orleans?

[zow2]

1 hour ago, Hsker4life said:

Flores seems like a head-case. It’s always everyone else’s fault, never his. I’d stay far away from him. 

 

Thats what i was speculating very early on when Flores sued.  I think his problems/firing are a lot more about HIM and not about the color of his skin.

 

I heard an interview with Mike Florio on Sirius today from the Super Bowl site.  Even he is backing away.  He said Flores’ lawyers aren’t looking out for him. They should have told him to sit on his frustrations for a while and not bring this public.  Because he had a great chance to get another job this year or next.  But the Ooops text from Belichek set him off.  Said the lawyers seem to be relishing taking on the big NFL suits.

[Mikie2times]

16 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

Thats what i was speculating very early on when Flores sued.  I think his problems/firing are a lot more about HIM and not about the color of his skin.

 

I heard an interview with Mike Florio on Sirius today from the Super Bowl site.  Even he is backing away.  He said Flores’ lawyers aren’t looking out for him. They should have told him to sit on his frustrations for a while and not bring this public.  Because he had a great chance to get another job this year or next.  But the Ooops text from Belichek set him off.  Said the lawyers seem to be relishing taking on the big NFL suits.

I see it the same as far as the attorneys. Hello Mr. attorney, do you think I should file a discrimination lawsuit against the NFL?

 

Options A)

Yes

 

Option B)

Perhaps you should take a week or two and evaluate your options, we can file this lawsuit at anytime

 

It's almost comical to think what the answer would be.