We have a terrific field goal kicker we hate to use

[PromoTheRobot]

The Bills have one of the most reliable kickers in the NFL right now. But we play the game like we don't want to use him.

 

We were in FG range several times yesterday but instead of settling for three, we decided to play right into the Jags gameplan.

 

Hubris kills, and the Bills sometimes believe their own hype a little too much. It's great to have a killer instinct but it's better to realize when things aren't working to just get some points. 

[Beast]

Agreed.

 

Not only that, MDermott declined a penalty that would have taken J'ville out of FG range....especially with our pass defense being the strong suit of this team. Terrible decision.

 

McDermott needs to wake the hell up regarding FG range. Pretty soon he'll be punting on the 31.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Beast

[colin]

lol, i was about to disagree, but you are totally right, we really do.

 

we got that 2 pt conversion vs tenn, so at the end we were down by 3, and we went for it instead of kicking.  i understand some people feel like we should have gone for it and all that, but you set yourself up to be down by the kick, and didn't do it.

 

and ya, today they did the same.  in a sense, going with some of the plays that put the ball at risk down in the jags end, even while our o had been awful, also showed that.  some conservative down and distance turtle play woulda set us up for like 3 more fg attempts, walking away w a 6 point win!  lol.

 

i kinda wonder if mccoach understands how to not be conservative without being just balls out aggressive.  like, he was way too conservative at times before, and now he seems like he might just bench our punter and kicker!

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Bills have one of the most reliable kickers in the NFL right now. But we play the game like we don't want to use him.

 

We were in FG range several times yesterday but instead of settling for three, we decided to play right into the Jags gameplan.

 

Hubris kills, and the Bills sometimes believe their own hype a little too much. It's great to have a killer instinct but it's better to realize when things aren't working to just get some points. 

How by letting our QB throw the ball on third down?  What do you want them to do get in FG range and take a knee the rest of the plays?

[freddyjj]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

Not only that, MDermott declined a penalty that would have taken J'ville out of FG range....especially with our pass defense being the strong suit of this team. Terrible decision.

Was trying to wrap my head around handing them a 55 yd FG try when they did that.  Bad coaching for sure.

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

Agreed.

 

Not only that, MDermott declined a penalty that would have taken J'ville out of FG range....especially with our pass defense being the strong suit of this team. Terrible decision.

 

McDermott needs to wake the hell up regarding FG range. Pretty soon he'll be punting on the 31.

 

The D allowed a total of 218 yards of offense and only 5.3 fantasy points to Lawrence. If there was any D in the NFL that deserves a shot at preventing a FG on 3rd and 15 it's this one.

 

McDermott coached like he didn't believe the Jags could beat them and that arrogance seemed to trickle down to his team.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Big Turk

[BRH]

The Jags had made exactly zero FGs on American soil until yesterday.  I don't blame McD for thinking 55 was out of their range and that they would probably punt, and that the odds of that happening were higher than the odds of the refs making up a stupid penalty to put the Jags closer on the next play.  Well, they didn't punt, and the kid nailed it.  Tip your cap.  It basically won them the game.

[Wayne Cubed]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Bills have one of the most reliable kickers in the NFL right now. But we play the game like we don't want to use him.

 

We were in FG range several times yesterday but instead of settling for three, we decided to play right into the Jags gameplan.

 

Hubris kills, and the Bills sometimes believe their own hype a little too much. It's great to have a killer instinct but it's better to realize when things aren't working to just get some points. 

 

So, give up trying to win the game? I don't follow.

 

They were in FG range 2 times and Josh fumbled the ball on one, when Singletary would have picked up the first down. The other one Josh threw an interception on a short pass toe Beasely. On 2nd down in FG range they did run Moss, for no gain.

 

Sounds like what you really want is for Josh to do a better job protecting the ball.

[TBBills]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

How by letting our QB throw the ball on third down?  What do you want them to do get in FG range and take a knee the rest of the plays?

 

12 minutes ago, Beast said:

Agreed.

 

Not only that, MDermott declined a penalty that would have taken J'ville out of FG range....especially with our pass defense being the strong suit of this team. Terrible decision.

 

McDermott needs to wake the hell up regarding FG range. Pretty soon he'll be punting on the 31.

McDermott made the right choice with how flags were getting thrown around. Back them up they throw get a flag and it's first down for them.

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, BRH said:

The Jags had made exactly zero FGs on American soil until yesterday.  I don't blame McD for thinking 55 was out of their range and that they would probably punt, and that the odds of that happening were higher than the odds of the refs making up a stupid penalty to put the Jags closer on the next play.  Well, they didn't punt, and the kid nailed it.  Tip your cap.  It basically won them the game.

Yeah I was wondering also whether McD didn’t want to risk letting the refs give them a first down with a penalty.

[PromoTheRobot]

13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

How by letting our QB throw the ball on third down?  What do you want them to do get in FG range and take a knee the rest of the plays?

Well yes. Not the entire game. But say late in the third when it's obvious you aren't making headway against the Jags defense. Swallow your pride and take the three. 

[DCofNC]

I was not surprised, but wondered why they wouldn’t let Bass take the shot when they went for it on 4th and a mile on the last snap.  The team had sucked all day, no reason to believe they would convert that.  I get that it would have been or been close to a record long FG, but at that point, why not give the kid a shot, he put one in last week that would have been good from that distance, why not?

Edited November 8, 2021 by DCofNC

[Beast]

15 minutes ago, TBBills said:

 

McDermott made the right choice with how flags were getting thrown around. Back them up they throw get a flag and it's first down for them.

 

So what if they get a first down? My bet is the Bills still would have held them from scoring a TD if they did and there were no indications that the Jaguars could have picked those yards up other than a fluke play or penalty.

 

The Bills defense was dominant yesterday and McDermott failed to take advantage of that in that particular situation.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Beast

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

 

So what if they get a first down? My bet is the Bills still would have held them from scoring a TD if they did and there were no indications that the Jaguars could have picked those yards up other than a fluke play or penalty.

Your bets... 

[Beast]

1 minute ago, TBBills said:

Your bets... 

 

Yeah, those bets are called in game decisions.  You know, we discuss that sort of stuff here on a message board.

[TBBills]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Yeah, those bets are called in game decisions.  You know, we discuss that sort of stuff here on a message board.

You mean people B word about that sort of stuff.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

33 minutes ago, colin said:

lol, i was about to disagree, but you are totally right, we really do.

 

we got that 2 pt conversion vs tenn, so at the end we were down by 3, and we went for it instead of kicking.  i understand some people feel like we should have gone for it and all that, but you set yourself up to be down by the kick, and didn't do it.

 

and ya, today they did the same.  in a sense, going with some of the plays that put the ball at risk down in the jags end, even while our o had been awful, also showed that.  some conservative down and distance turtle play woulda set us up for like 3 more fg attempts, walking away w a 6 point win!  lol.

 

i kinda wonder if mccoach understands how to not be conservative without being just balls out aggressive.  like, he was way too conservative at times before, and now he seems like he might just bench our punter and kicker!

 

What was the play call, apparently you must know.  Maybe it was supposed to be a short throw, but that's again where Allen often decides to go for the kill and throw it long like in the Tenn game think it was on back to back plays.  Maybe it was even a run play, but JA checked out of it.

 

As far as the end of the Tenn game, sure they'd have made the kick, but IMO you were deciding between going for it on 4th and less than 1 and making that or a coin flip as the way Tenn was moving the ball if they won the flip in OT, high likelihood they go down the field and score a TD

[colin]

3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

What was the play call, apparently you must know.  Maybe it was supposed to be a short throw, but that's again where Allen often decides to go for the kill and throw it long like in the Tenn game think it was on back to back plays.  Maybe it was even a run play, but JA checked out of it.

 

As far as the end of the Tenn game, sure they'd have made the kick, but IMO you were deciding between going for it on 4th and less than 1 and making that or a coin flip as the way Tenn was moving the ball if they won the flip in OT, high likelihood they go down the field and score a TD

 

 

apparently i must know?  so a fan needs omniscience in order to criticize the coaching for a team w the number one scoring O and D who just lost to the actual worst team in the league?  give your head a shake!

 

the point is this was a great opportunity for some HC conservatism, to take the rope away from the OC (who was awful) and go real conservative and kick some 3s and walk away a winner.

[Einstein]

32 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Well yes. Not the entire game. But say late in the third when it's obvious you aren't making headway against the Jags defense. Swallow your pride and take the three. 

 

When did McD not swallow his pride and take the three?

 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

I dont mind they hate to use him.   The Bills arent playing this year to beat the Jaguars, they arent playing this year to  sneak into the playoffs.   Great teams score touchdowns.  I am not going to sit here and worry about the lack of Field Goals.    The Bills  shouldnt want to kick field goals, its a waste of long term time.   Figure out how to score touchdowns.

[zow2]

You have to have a feel for the game.  McD is still learning on the job.  There's a reason teams kick FG's on 4th down most of the time and don't go for it.  It's a time tested successful NFL strategy.  Get points.  There aren't that many possessions in an NFL game.  Get the 3 when it's there unless you absolutely must have 6+ points in crunch time.  Admittedly I'm old school and conservative when it comes to NFL games.

Edited November 8, 2021 by zow2

[MAJBobby]

42 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Well yes. Not the entire game. But say late in the third when it's obvious you aren't making headway against the Jags defense. Swallow your pride and take the three. 

By taking a knee?  Really is that why we have a Franchise QB?

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

By taking a knee?  Really is that why we have a Franchise QB?

 

Yeah I don’t understand the premise of this thread at all. What did he want them to do? Kick the field goal on third down?

 

This is revisionist history through and through. No NFL coach is not pushing for a TD on that drive.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Yeah I don’t understand the premise of this thread at all. What did he want them to do? Kick the field goal on third down?

 

This is revisionist history through and through. No NFL coach is not pushing for a TD on that drive.

I guess he wants Jeff Fisher or Tony Sparano coaching. Play for FGs and hope the defense doesn’t give enough points up. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

Agreed.

 

Not only that, MDermott declined a penalty that would have taken J'ville out of FG range....especially with our pass defense being the strong suit of this team. Terrible decision.

 

McDermott needs to wake the hell up regarding FG range. Pretty soon he'll be punting on the 31.

I think because of the slack he received last year from the afcc game he's now gone too far in the other direction. Bass is amazing and maybe we should've taken our chances in OT yesterday and in Tennessee? Declining that penalty was pure stupidity. Please don't let McD turn into Levy.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, colin said:

 

 

apparently i must know?  so a fan needs omniscience in order to criticize the coaching for a team w the number one scoring O and D who just lost to the actual worst team in the league?  give your head a shake!

 

the point is this was a great opportunity for some HC conservatism, to take the rope away from the OC (who was awful) and go real conservative and kick some 3s and walk away a winner.

 

OK but how do you know that wasn't what the HC wanted and called?  I have a hard time believing in the Tenn game on that one drive, not the last one, maybe the one before, that the coaching staff even Daboll called for two consecutive long pass attempts on something like a 2nd and then 3rd and 3 or 4 was it?  But that was what JA did.

 

In yesterdays game I don't recall any drives where they were really in comfortable FG range, agree likely needed another 5 or 6 yards to get there and was like 3rd and 16 or so.  So JA made a throw for the 1st and failed.  But maybe the call was for a short pass to a RB to get a few more yards, but JA felt if I wait another half second Diggs or Sanders is going to break free and will be an easy pass for the 1st down, but instead a rusher gets free and now he has to rush the throw and misses by a lot.  Last year if he did that it worked almost every time.  Maybe you could try and have a play where all 4 or 5 guys only go out 5 yards, but that many players and defenders in a small area doesn't usually work to well either.

 

That's my point, we don't know for certain that the play wasn't to be a conservative play for a few.  The one thing the HC or Daboll could have done to assure the conservative call was executed was to call a running play and go with two RB and two TE so only leaves one WR to even throw to.  But do you feel even remotely confident if they tried to run it they'd have gained anything?  To me a conservative play call that I'd have some confidence would actually work would be a short pass and maybe that was what was called, but wasn't the play that was executed.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Mr. WEO]

In the last 3 games, they have settled for FGs 50% of the time in the Red Zone. 

 

How about an Offense that scores TDs in close rather than chip shot FGs for points?

[FilthyBeast]

Don't get me wrong, I love Bass and think he's this generations Steve Christie but I want this team to score TD's not FG's.

 

But do agree that yesterday would have been the perfect game to utilize him more and actually have him win the game.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

By taking a knee?  Really is that why we have a Franchise QB?

 

Agreed.

 

It was like 3rd and 7 on one of them - why would we run the ball there?  I'd be pissed if we did that.  What you shouldn't do is throw into double coverage.

 

And on the 3rd and 2, we did run the ball.  We should have got the first if he handed it off, and would have kicked the FG had allen not fumbled.

 

And on the 4th and 2, JAX were Offside and that was veeeery much on the edge of FG range.  

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

In the last 3 games, they have settled for FGs 50% of the time in the Red Zone. 

 

How about an Offense that scores TDs in close rather than chip shot FGs for points?

 

Teams are mostly playing zone in tight... get to the soft spot and chuck it in there.  We're holding the ball scrambling and cutting the field in half, or throwing short of the EZ and hoping to get in.  Throwing it in short like that usually works in man since you only have one to beat, but they're swarming the swing plays.  I can't even remember throwing it INTO the end zone the last couple of weeks.  Timing is super off.

Edited November 8, 2021 by dneveu

[LABILLBACKER]

10 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Don't get me wrong, I love Bass and think he's this generations Steve Christie but I want this team to score TD's not FG's.

 

But do agree that yesterday would have been the perfect game to utilize him more and actually have him win the game.

Jesus, we all want TD's especially in the redzone but we're not going to get them as frequently with this embarrassing OL.  Read the room McDermott. We weren't moving the ball yesterday and besides the gift FG you handed them, our D gave up 6 points. If you have to occassionally win a game 12-9 then do it. I'll take the W over style points.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Bills have one of the most reliable kickers in the NFL right now. But we play the game like we don't want to use him.

 

We were in FG range several times yesterday but instead of settling for three, we decided to play right into the Jags gameplan.

 

Hubris kills, and the Bills sometimes believe their own hype a little too much. It's great to have a killer instinct but it's better to realize when things aren't working to just get some points. 

 

Couldn't disagree more. 

 

There was exactly one drive that ended in FG range with no points (Josh's first INT). Is your suggestion that McD should've known Josh was going to throw an INT there and we should've run the ball for no gain? 

 

Or are you talking about the 4th and 2 from JAX 43 yard line? Every coach in the league is going to go for the 4th down instead of attempting a 60 yard FG. After the false start penalty it turns into a 65 yard FG vs a punt. 

 

Final drive was 4th and 16 from the JAX 48. 65 yard FG vs a very long 4th down are both bad options, but I think going for it is the right choice. 

[colin]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

OK but how do you know that wasn't what the HC wanted and called?  I have a hard time believing in the Tenn game on that one drive, not the last one, maybe the one before, that the coaching staff even Daboll called for two consecutive long pass attempts on something like a 2nd and then 3rd and 3 or 4 was it?  But that was what JA did.

 

In yesterdays game I don't recall any drives where they were really in comfortable FG range, agree likely needed another 5 or 6 yards to get there and was like 3rd and 16 or so.  So JA made a throw for the 1st and failed.  But maybe the call was for a short pass to a RB to get a few more yards, but JA felt if I wait another half second Diggs or Sanders is going to break free and will be an easy pass for the 1st down, but instead a rusher gets free and now he has to rush the throw and misses by a lot.  Last year if he did that it worked almost every time.  Maybe you could try and have a play where all 4 or 5 guys only go out 5 yards, but that many players and defenders in a small area doesn't usually work to well either.

 

That's my point, we don't know for certain that the play wasn't to be a conservative play for a few.  The one thing the HC or Daboll could have done to assure the conservative call was executed was to call a running play and go with two RB and two TE so only leaves one WR to even throw to.  But do you feel even remotely confident if they tried to run it they'd have gained anything?  To me a conservative play call that I'd have some confidence would actually work would be a short pass and maybe that was what was called, but wasn't the play that was executed.

 

 

it's in 20/20 hindsight, but a conservative move to take the rope out of the OC and O's hands is to force conservative calls w no non conservative audibles.  just basically shoplifting the 3s w a small chance at 7 and nearly no chance of a turnover, but i don't think they did that at all.

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

Agreed.

 

Not only that, MDermott declined a penalty that would have taken J'ville out of FG range....especially with our pass defense being the strong suit of this team. Terrible decision.

 

McDermott needs to wake the hell up regarding FG range. Pretty soon he'll be punting on the 31.

Has he explained why he declined that? I haven't watched the presser yet.

 

I thought it was weird at the time. And then thought maybe he didn't want to risk giving them another play while their kicker has been struggling. Might as well guarantee 4th down and let the kicker try.

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

In the last 3 games, they have settled for FGs 50% of the time in the Red Zone. 

 

How about an Offense that scores TDs in close rather than chip shot FGs for points?

Coaches are overthinking it at this point, in my opinion.

 

Kick it early. Go for it late. Ride the momentum.

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Has he explained why he declined that? I haven't watched the presser yet.

 

I thought it was weird at the time. And then thought maybe he didn't want to risk giving them another play while their kicker has been struggling. Might as well guarantee 4th down and let the kicker try.

Coaches are overthinking it at this point, in my opinion.

 

Kick it early. Go for it late. Ride the momentum.

 

Going into the locker room with only 1 or 2 FGs as total points at the half 2 weeks in a row against bad teams isn't usually described as "momentum".

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Going into the locker room with only 1 or 2 FGs as total points at the half 2 weeks in a row against bad teams isn't usually described as "momentum".

I agree. I don't see anyone describing that as momentum.

 

I guess you could describe it as backwards momentum, if you wanted to.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, colin said:

 

 

it's in 20/20 hindsight, but a conservative move to take the rope out of the OC and O's hands is to force conservative calls w no non conservative audibles.  just basically shoplifting the 3s w a small chance at 7 and nearly no chance of a turnover, but i don't think they did that at all.

 

My fear is Allen might still find a way to go long or at least considerably longer than 4 or 5 yards.  And I wouldn't trust a run call for much of anything.

[Sherlock Holmes]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Bills have one of the most reliable kickers in the NFL right now. But we play the game like we don't want to use him.

 

We were in FG range several times yesterday but instead of settling for three, we decided to play right into the Jags gameplan.

 

Hubris kills, and the Bills sometimes believe their own hype a little too much. It's great to have a killer instinct but it's better to realize when things aren't working to just get some points. 

I was screaming on 3rd down to just send Bass out...too much pressure on Allen and sure enough ended in a sack for 4th and 15 and probably 68 yard FG which they still should of sent Bass out for.

[Freddie's Dead]

4th and 16, the way Josh was playing, I send Bass-o-Matic out there for the 67 yarder.  

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

I dont mind they hate to use him.   The Bills arent playing this year to beat the Jaguars, they arent playing this year to  sneak into the playoffs.   Great teams score touchdowns.  I am not going to sit here and worry about the lack of Field Goals.    The Bills  shouldnt want to kick field goals, its a waste of long term time.   Figure out how to score touchdowns.

 

Cocky teams only want touchdowns. Smart teams take the points. 

28 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

4th and 16, the way Josh was playing, I send Bass-o-Matic out there for the 67 yarder.  

 

Josh took a killer sack on 3rd down. I mean if you haven't figured out that Jax was going to blitz you again by that time WTF? You run, set up a field goal, tie the game and win it in OT . The Jags offense wasn't going to beat you. Only your arrogance.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Cocky teams only want touchdowns. Smart teams take the points. 

 

Josh took a killer sack on 3rd down. I mean if you haven't figured out that Jax was going to blitz you again by that time WTF? You run, set up a field goal, tie the game and win it in OT . The Jags offense wasn't going to beat you. Only your arrogance.

 

Amen on 1.

 

The second is one of my pet peeves of football. Its 3rd and long around the 30-35. Like clockwork, the D blitzes heavily and the O sends their QB on a 5 step drop.  QB gets sacked and team is out of FG range. Send out the punt team. its amazing how often this happens.

 

Just get a few yards and let Money do his thing.  Points is points.