[Edit] Jon Gruden resigns over controversial emails discovered in WFT investigation

[JoPoy88]

4 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

How did these 10 year old emails come to light again? 

 

Did somebody just hang onto them for a decade until Gruden stopped paying their ransom demands or something? It's all so weird to me.

The emails involving Gruden are not all 10 years old. Reports say the emails sent to the Raiders and subsequently leaked spanned 7 years. There may be emails even more current than that. If you check earlier in the thread, you’ll see how they came to the league’s attention. (They were discovered because the emails were between Gruden and his good buddy Bruce Allen, former GM of the WFT.)

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

No I think we need to continue to educate to eliminate behaviors going forward  and not weaponize groups to attack those they don't like. There is a much bigger issue at play than Jon Gruden. I mean are we really going to go back in time and check out what everyone has ever said and done. Are the writers doing these stories all clean- no way.  I know alot of people who have been educated and improved in recent years and that should be the goal.

Sure. But that doesn’t mean every business partner should have to stand tall by you before you even start down that road.

 

I suspect he would’ve stood a better chance if he came out and said “you know what I messed up and there’s a good chance there’s more out there because a long time ago I was an idiot but this is who I am today and how I’ve changed” —- but instead the latest batch include some pretty recent dumbassery. At what crossroads do you believe he started his reformation into a better man?

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

The emails involving Gruden are not all 10 years old. Reports say the emails sent to the Raiders and subsequently leaked spanned 7 years. There may be emails even more current than that. If you check earlier in the thread, you’ll see how they came to the league’s attention. (They were discovered because the emails were between Gruden and his good buddy Bruce Allen, former GM of the WFT.)

 

Even without any emails, if you are friends with Bruce Allen, you are probably a shady jerk at best.

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

You know what's a good way to "eliminate behaviors"? Punitive consequences based on your actions. Nobody is weaponizing anything, cut the victim angle.

 

He said horrible, indefensible things about large swaths of people. On top of that he directed that hatred towards the commissioner of the organization he works for, and he spread/shared nude images of women without their consent. It's crazy to me that you would even try to say that he should be educated instead of being held responsible because he might have changed his views nebulously at some point.

 

 

💯 and on top of that - Gruden was a leader. A head coach 3 times over. Leadership gets held to a higher standard. Not a hard concept to grasp.

[FireChans]

Where is C Biscuit to defend Gruden because Tyreek Hill beat a woman and is still in the League?

 

Feel like this topic is his bat signal

[Sharky7337]

Wait till the final part comes out when he tried to show the cheer leaders his spider 2 y banana!

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

You know what's a good way to "eliminate behaviors"? Punitive consequences based on your actions. Nobody is weaponizing anything, cut the victim angle.

 

He said horrible, indefensible things about large swaths of people. On top of that he directed that hatred towards the commissioner of the organization he works for, and he spread/shared nude images of women without their consent. It's crazy to me that you would even try to say that he should be educated instead of being held responsible because he might have changed his views nebulously at some point.

 

 

With no evidence that his views ever changed on top of all that.

 

I was all in that a random comment 10 years ago would leave him uncomfortable but otherwise unaffected as long as he wasn’t an idiot responding. Those comments continuing down the timeline 7 more years, with no known end other than the scope of the investigation and change in his own employment… big difference 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

With no evidence that his views ever changed on top of all that.

 

I was all in that a random comment 10 years ago would leave him uncomfortable but otherwise unaffected as long as he wasn’t an idiot responding. Those comments continuing down the timeline 7 more years, with no known end other than the scope of the investigation and change in his own employment… big difference 

 

"I'm not racist, I just hate f@#$" -Jon Gruden, 2021

[Best Williams Available]

1 hour ago, VaMilBill said:

The thing I hate about this is it seems like people just want to tear someone down for the sake of tearing someone down. Big tree fall hard. Gruden has never had anything said about his views on race or sexual orientation affecting his professionalism. 
 

Look at someone’s actions on how you judge someone, not on their words. 
 

I am not a Gruden fan but this just seemed like a career assassination. 

Career suicide you mean. If you’re ever in a position of responsibility, especially around easily influenced young people where you are charged as their leader, you cannot act like this in any capacity, ever. At ESPN sure, be an A**Hole, but the second you’re head coach of a football team again your credibility is sh*t and you deserve to lose that career over this. It’s self-inflicted.
 

To think a dummy who says/thinks such things in private can somehow separate himself from these biases in public is laughable, and the reason you can’t have him leading other people.

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Sure. But that doesn’t mean every business partner should have to stand tall by you before you even start down that road.

 

I suspect he would’ve stood a better chance if he came out and said “you know what I messed up and there’s a good chance there’s more out there because a long time ago I was an idiot but this is who I am today and how I’ve changed” —- but instead the latest batch include some pretty recent dumbassery. At what crossroads do you believe he started his reformation into a better man?

At 58 years old, I’m not sure you do believe he’s reformed.

[BigDingus]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Read the post above yours.   "Investigation into the Washington Football Team's Workplace Culture"

 

Most businesses of any size archive emails, including received sent and deleted emails, for a loooooong time.

 

Yeah, that was posted at the same time I was posting mine. Only thing I knew about this story was when it first broke that he made comments about someone's lips. That was the last time I checked back on this until I saw he resigned.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, BigDingus said:

 

Yeah, that was posted at the same time I was posting mine. Only thing I knew about this story was when it first broke that he made comments about someone's lips. That was the last time I checked back on this until I saw he resigned.

 

Maybe take some time to read up before defending these guys next time.

[thewookie1]

It's amazing how many times my opinion slowly shifted to being against Gruden as the 2nd set of emails came to light.

 

Sending Emails to a friend of Topless cheerleaders -- tasteless but not exactly evil.

 

Potentially sending them from a company email -- completely idiotic but still not doomsday level

 

Complaining about the protest -- unless there was overly racist phrases used then it would not be wrong to voice a disagreement

 

(If Goodell actually pressured a team to take Michael Sam, then that's worthy of complaint) That being said using slurs is unacceptable.

 

Being against women refs in itself isn't evil; but based on the information we have it certainly seems as if more derogatory language was used thus not good

 

Calling the league's commissioner slurs while working in a career that revolves around said league is both wrong but worse, it's idiotic

 

 

At the end of the day he screwed himself and I have little sympathy for him

[Dablitzkrieg]

58 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Doubt it lol. No top tier HC is going to touch the raiders with a ten foot poll. That combo i strongly see going to Miami. 

Why?

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

With no evidence that his views ever changed on top of all that.

 

I was all in that a random comment 10 years ago would leave him uncomfortable but otherwise unaffected as long as he wasn’t an idiot responding. Those comments continuing down the timeline 7 more years, with no known end other than the scope of the investigation and change in his own employment… big difference 

I mean, so we know that Goodell isn’t just a bundle of sticks? Have you ever seen Goodell and a bundle of sticks in the same place? 
 

Gruden doesn’t want a happy practice environment. He wasn’t a place where people come to work, where they are locked in. Don’t you show up all gay and merry to his facility. 
 

We know the above is true, because Gruden does not have rubbery lips. Jon “Not rubber lipped” Gruden. That’s what they called him growing up. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

How long before organizations, prior to entering into these types of multimillion dollar contracts with individuals, demand access to their private email and social media history? 

[JoPoy88]

13 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

It's amazing how many times my opinion slowly shifted to being against Gruden as the 2nd set of emails came to light.

 

Sending Emails to a friend of Topless cheerleaders -- tasteless but not exactly evil.

 

Potentially sending them from a company email -- completely idiotic but still not doomsday level

 

Complaining about the protest -- unless there was overly racist phrases used then it would not be wrong to voice a disagreement

 

(If Goodell actually pressured a team to take Michael Sam, then that's worthy of complaint) That being said using slurs is unacceptable.

 

Being against women refs in itself isn't evil; but based on the information we have it certainly seems as if more derogatory language was used thus not good

 

Calling the league's commissioner slurs while working in a career that revolves around said league is both wrong but worse, it's idiotic

 

 

At the end of the day he screwed himself and I have little sympathy for him

bud those cheerleaders were WFT cheerleaders. Not just random porn images. Big difference. 
 

being against female officials isn’t “evil?” You seem very fond of that characterization. Eeeeevill. No, Gruden’s comments are not evil in the biblical sense. Crass, idiotic, distasteful, and, most of all, grounds for termination? Most definitely.

 

(Also, why wouldn’t we want to give females a shot to referee? Not like the men are doing any kind of adequate job. We witnessed that yet again just last night.)

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

How long before organizations, prior to entering into these types of multimillion dollar contracts with individuals, demand access to their private email and social media history? 

Uh, employers routinely look into prospective employees’ social media history. Been doing it for years.

Edited October 12, 2021 by JoPoy88

[HappyDays]

Having read the last few pages, I have a sampling of my favorite talking points.

 

"Gruden was wrong but he said it in the ancient calendar year of 2014. He probably became a better person after Obama's 2nd term ended."

 

"Who cares, everyone has said awful hateful things. Especially me. I've said so many awful hateful things. It just rolls off my tongue like nothing."

 

"The direct boss of several black and gay people should be treated the same way as a rapper from the 90s."

[Best Williams Available]

59 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

Society and people will never be perfect.

 

I don't condone insulting people based on any discriminatory factor. Or that any race religion or creed is better then any other.

 

Whether I agree with them or not people should be entitled to have their own opinions and beliefs without the fear of losing their jobs or lives over it.

 

I hope one day we can come to accept and forgive and learn from these sorts of mistakes without trying to "make an example" or "cancel" people.

This dude is in an extreme leadership role where he is the role model for 50 or so young men and a staff of men and women. His “opinions” and “beliefs” suggest he thinks he’s superior and/or it’s ok to discriminate against some of the people he leads. This disqualifies him from leading these or any people.
 

I used to roof houses with guys that had a greater sense of responsibility than Gruden.

[Mango]

12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

How long before organizations, prior to entering into these types of multimillion dollar contracts with individuals, demand access to their private email and social media history? 

Fun fact, most good HR dept’s already scope out your social media without you knowing.

 

Add on: If you use your personal phone for your employer be careful what you send and do on it. Once you set up the exchange server your phone is basically your companies, and you have basically agreed to give them access to it.

 

Also, if you think your work phone is private, it might be. But it might not be. I’ve worked with people who have had their texts read by senior leadership. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Mango

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

bud those cheerleaders were WFT cheerleaders. Not just random porn images. Big difference. 
 

being against female officials isn’t “evil?” You seem very fond of that characterization. Eeeeevill. No, Gruden’s comments are not evil in the biblical sense. Crass, idiotic, distasteful, and, most of all, grounds for termination? Most definitely.

 

(Also, why wouldn’t we want to give females a shot to referee? Not like the men are doing any kind of adequate job. We witnessed that yet again just last night.)

 

It's amazing to me how people are defending Gruden as if he's being threatened with jail time over this or something.  

[BuffaloBills1998]

17 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Why?

Daboll coached Tua in Alabama, you don’t think Ross would be looking his way after all the success he’s had here and in developing Allen. Ross has to know that Tua isn’t getting good coaching from the current staff that’s in place

[BigDingus]

Just now, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

 

It's amazing to me how people are defending Gruden as if he's being threatened with jail time over this or something.  

 

Yeah... You talk crap about your bosses, you'll face consequences. 

 

This could've been mentioned already, but I just thought about it... along with racially charged comments that might not sit well with your players, the Raiders also have an openly gay player in the locker room, and according to that ESPN article, Gruden used "anti-gay" slurs repeatedly. 

 

Pretty sure he was going to face a lot of heat from his own players anyway.

[BuffaloBills1998]

Just now, BigDingus said:

 

Yeah... You talk crap about your bosses, you'll face consequences. 

 

This could've been mentioned already, but I just thought about it... along with racially charged comments that might not sit well with your players, the Raiders also have an openly gay player in the locker room, and according to that ESPN article, Gruden used "anti-gay" slurs repeatedly. 

 

Pretty sure he was going to face a lot of heat from his own players anyway.

Might be one of the reasons they were starting to shut down

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

bud those cheerleaders were WFT cheerleaders. Not just random porn images. Big difference. 
 

being against female officials isn’t “evil?” You seem very fond of that characterization. Eeeeevill. No, Gruden’s comments are not evil in the biblical sense. Crass, idiotic, distasteful, and, most of all, grounds for termination? Most definitely.

 

(Also, why wouldn’t we want to give females a shot to referee? Not like the men are doing any kind of adequate job. We witnessed that yet again just last night.)

Uh, employers routinely look into prospective employees’ social media history. Been doing it for years.

 

11 minutes ago, Mango said:

Fun fact, most good HR dept’s already scope out your social media without you knowing.

The public stuff currently yeah, but I’m talking about individuals being required to consent to private access.
 

That’s where a lot of these bad things are hiding right? Text messages too. 
 

they take such a huge financial risk to then have something like this blow up almost overnight. 
 

thank goodness mcbeanes seem like choir boys… 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Mango]

9 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The public stuff currently yeah, but I’m talking about individuals being required to consent to private access.
 

That’s where a lot of these bad things are hiding right? Text messages too. 
 

they take such a huge financial risk to then have something like this blow up almost overnight. 

 

I added it to this post but I’ll repost here.

 

Hopefully you don’t use your personal phone as a work phone because it’s not yours anymore. Once you give access to IT to add you to the exchange server, you waived your privacy. They have full access. If you quit they can wipe your entire device. They can read every text you send.  
 

I know somebody who runs HR at a very prominent Buffalo company. She says they get access to private social media posts all the time. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Mango

[JoPoy88]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The public stuff currently yeah, but I’m talking about individuals being required to consent to private access.
 

That’s where a lot of these bad things are hiding right? Text messages too. 
 

they take such a huge financial risk to then have something like this blow up almost overnight. 

I get you and sure, most aren’t going to demand your login information for your gmail account. But they will employ firms to thoroughly comb the internet for public facing social media statements, and they will ask you to disclose such accounts.

 

But there’s also a level of trust and chance involved, as you said. In a place like the NFL, where the applicable talent pool is small and nepotism and cronyism are infected throughout, there are many, MANY bad actors like Gruden still waiting for their day in the sun. I hope they expose all of them.

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I added it to this post but I’ll repost here.

 

Hopefully you don’t use your personal phone as a work phone because it’s not yours anymore. Once you give access to IT to add you to the exchange server, you waived your privacy. They have full access. If you quit they can whips your entire device. They can read every text you send.  
 

I know somebody who runs HR at a very prominent Buffalo company. She says they get access to private social media posts all the time. 

I never use my work phone for anything other than work. My cheap friend uses his for everything. PSA: don’t be like my friend.

[Victor reyes]

It’s sad to see coach gruden resigned, cancell culture is alive and well, everything these days

are racist if you fart you’re racist, years back everything caused cancer now the in thing is you’re a racist.  This is a horrible can of worms that the cancel culture has opened.  If you had a problem a decade ago fix it back then, don’t sit, wait and let it brew looking like someone has a planned and vindictive agenda!

[Bray Wyatt]

I defended him previously and gave him the benefit of the doubt when the first one came out. Now that these new emails came out, there really is no defending or mistaking anything. He should have resigned and I am sure this will end any association he has with the NFL, as it should 

[Malazan]

How lucky for him that he found an 'out' 

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

I get you and sure, most aren’t going to demand your login information for your gmail account. But they will employ firms to thoroughly comb the internet for public facing social media statements, and they will ask you to disclose such accounts.

 

But there’s also a level of trust and chance involved, as you said. In a place like the NFL, where the applicable talent pool is small and nepotism and cronyism are infected throughout, there are many, MANY bad actors like Gruden still waiting for their day in the sun. I hope they expose all of them.

I never use my work phone for anything other than work. My cheap friend uses his for everything. PSA: don’t be like my friend.

 

I had the option to use my own device and gladly turned it down and carry two phones. 
 

At the very least, I don’t want the risk of losing pictures, contacts, etc. going forward. 

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

I added it to this post but I’ll repost here.

 

Hopefully you don’t use your personal phone as a work phone because it’s not yours anymore. Once you give access to IT to add you to the exchange server, you waived your privacy. They have full access. If you quit they can whips your entire device. They can read every text you send.  
 

I know somebody who runs HR at a very prominent Buffalo company. She says they get access to private social media posts all the time. 

IT professional here who manages roughly 1,500 devices and ~600 users.

 

This can be true depending on the type of mail server and the policies set by your organization.  A lot of the newer productivity suites don't necessarily require this kind of access. For instance, when we ran our own Microsoft exchange server, we had policies similar to what you're describing.  Now that we've offloaded our mail services to Google, it's no longer required. 

 

That being said, I've absolutely never invaded the privacy of any of our users.

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Yeah... You talk crap about your bosses, you'll face consequences. 

 

This could've been mentioned already, but I just thought about it... along with racially charged comments that might not sit well with your players, the Raiders also have an openly gay player in the locker room, and according to that ESPN article, Gruden used "anti-gay" slurs repeatedly. 

 

Pretty sure he was going to face a lot of heat from his own players anyway.

 

Great point. Totally forgot about Nassib being in LV. Wow, yeah.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

IT professional here who manages roughly 1,500 devices and ~600 users.

 

This can be true depending on the type of mail server and the policies set by your organization.  A lot of the newer productivity suites don't necessarily require this kind of access. For instance, when we ran our own Microsoft exchange server, we had policies similar to what you're describing.  Now that we've offloaded our mail services to Google, it's no longer required. 

 

That being said, I've absolutely never invaded the privacy of any of our users.

 

No one should expect any privacy on communications sent over a platform someone else owns. Especially when that someone is your employer. Those emails are the company's property, and anyone and everyone can read them.

[klos63]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

I think Mark Davis and the other NFL owners should turn over their cell phones and email servers for the last 20 years for review so that we can make sure that they are worthy of passing judgement.

Which other NFL owners were involved in Gruden losing his job?

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

No one should expect any privacy on communications sent over a platform someone else owns. Especially when that someone is your employer. Those emails are the company's property, and anyone and everyone can read them.

Of course. I agree with everything you said. 

 

I was mainly talking about personal texts, photos, etc... when you link a personal device with a work E-Mail.  I'm just trying to snuff out the trope that "IT is always watching".  Just because we have access doesn't mean we're looking at someone's stuff.

[Dablitzkrieg]

28 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Daboll coached Tua in Alabama, you don’t think Ross would be looking his way after all the success he’s had here and in developing Allen. Ross has to know that Tua isn’t getting good coaching from the current staff that’s in place

No, Tua is horrible.   Wherever Daboll goes, MT goes.

[JoPoy88]

5 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Which other NFL owners were involved in Gruden losing his job?

Indirectly, Snyder. But the league has plenty of his emails already, trust me.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

No, Tua is horrible.   Wherever Daboll goes, MT goes.

 

Even Chicago?

[klos63]

1 hour ago, Sharky7337 said:

Society and people will never be perfect.

 

I don't condone insulting people based on any discriminatory factor. Or that any race religion or creed is better then any other.

 

Whether I agree with them or not people should be entitled to have their own opinions and beliefs without the fear of losing their jobs or lives over it.

 

I hope one day we can come to accept and forgive and learn from these sorts of mistakes without trying to "make an example" or "cancel" people.

Don't worry too much, I'm sure there are many known racists, anti gay, misogynistic people still gainfully employed. Hope that makes you feel better.

Actions/words have consequences, you should fear losing your job(not your life) if you potentially create a hostile environment in your job. If I called our CEO a gay slur, racial slur... attacked the idea of women advancing in our company, I should expect to lose my job.