JohnNord Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) The annual QB Rankings were released in an article from The Athletic. For the rankings 50 NFL coaches and execs place starting QB’s into 5 different tiers. Josh Allen was their 6th highest rated QB and the highest member of Tier 2. He fell just out of Tier 1 with the biggest knock on him being sustainability and fumbles. He actually received 20 Tier 1 votes which puts him just outside of that level. Overall he received 20 Tier 1 votes and 30 Tier 2 votes. The next closest was DeShaun Watson who edged him with 26 Tier 1 votes, 23 Tier 2 votes, and 1 Tier 3 vote!. You can read the full analysis in the links below: 2021 NFL Quarterback Tiers: 50 coaches and evaluators rank the league’s starters https://theathletic.com/2727336/2021/07/28/2021-nfl-quarterback-tiers-50-coaches-and-evaluators-rank-the-leagues-starters/?source=user_shared_article A lot of positive comments on Allen. Here’s what the skeptical GM and Coaches had to say: Quote Skeptical takes on Allen note that he still makes mistakes unbecoming of top-tier quarterbacks, including an 18-yard sack/fumble with the game on the line at Indianapolis in the wild-card round. The Bills barely won that game, scored 10 points on offense against Baltimore the next week and then lost by two touchdowns at Kansas City. “He still has to keep getting better, and I think he will, as a passer in the tight situations,” a former head coach said. “The gotta-have-it type plays. You gotta drop back, sit in the pocket and make throws. He reverted back in the playoff game, took a 30-yard sack (18 yards) spinning around with the ball and doing *****. That is what happens. Now, he needs to take the next step.” A defensive coordinator who placed Brady and Wilson in Tier 2 said Allen isn’t nearly advanced enough as a pure pocket passer or reader of defenses to belong in Tier 1. “He perplexes me because in my career I have not seen someone go from as inaccurate as he was in college to making this kind of transition,” a personnel director said. “I need to see some sustainability before placing him in the top tier.” For those interested, the Tier 1 QB’s along with the vote count were: 1. Aaron Rogers (50) 2. Patrick Mahomes (50) 3. Tom Brady (41,9) 4. Russell Wilson (40,10) 5. DeShaun Watson (26,23,1) Edited July 28, 2021 by JohnNord 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Thanks for posting. Good read even if I know these rankings do not really mean anything. What I always find perplexing is how some of these guys place so much emphasis on one play for one player (JA's "30-yard sack (18 yards)") and nothing about Wilson's red zone interception against the Bills. JA is a guy who takes risks and granted some don't work out but the "wow plays" are far more plentiful. 4 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 1 minute ago, ProcessAccepted said: Thanks for posting. Good read even if I know these rankings do not really mean anything. What I always find perplexing is how some of these guys place so much emphasis on one play for one player (JA's "30-yard sack (18 yards)") and nothing about Wilson's red zone interception against the Bills. JA is a guy who takes risks and granted some don't work out but the "wow plays" are far more plentiful. Allen makes plays other QBs wouldn't even make in their wildest fantasies in their dreams at night because they didn't even know those type of plays were humanly possible. 3 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxcar Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Didn't Mahomes set a record for lost yardage on a sack last season? Boy, the selective memory is interesting. Who is taking Brady, Wilson or Watson over Allen next year? Did it not matter that Brady threw three interceptions in the second half against GB with the game on the line? I don't care much about the rankings but the thought process is interesting. Lol yup. Maybe this is the "30 yard sack" that guy was thinking of: https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/12/14/chiefs-dolphins-patrick-mahomes-sack-video Edited July 28, 2021 by Boxcar 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said: Thanks for posting. Good read even if I know these rankings do not really mean anything. What I always find perplexing is how some of these guys place so much emphasis on one play for one player (JA's "30-yard sack (18 yards)") and nothing about Wilson's red zone interception against the Bills. JA is a guy who takes risks and granted some don't work out but the "wow plays" are far more plentiful. Yeah it means nothing. Some players have risen and dropped drastically. I think it does show that the majority of NFL evaluators have a favorable opinion of Allen (for now) and I feel it bodes well for the future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 I don’t have a huge issue with him being number 6 on the list. But I have a LARGE issue with him being categorized with Qb’s that don’t regularly carry their team. It’s been argued by plenty in the media that no team in the NFL relied more on one player than the Bills did. And relying on that player got them to 13-3 and in a title game. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 I think Allen belongs in the 1st Tier, but if someone wants to make the argument that he's had a single great season and needs to do it again before he is considered elite, I can understand that line of thinking. Personally, I don't think last year was lightning in a bottle for Josh, I think it was the first gusts of a hurricane. 7 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I don’t have a huge issue with him being number 6 on the list. But I have a LARGE issue with him being categorized with Qb’s that don’t regularly carry their team. It’s been argued by plenty in the media that no team in the NFL relied more on one player than the Bills did. And relying on that player got them to 13-3 and in a title game. To that point I found the focus on the negative play of the colts game very interesting. Yes that one play was bad, but they are not in the game let alone winning it if he doesn't play outstanding the rest of the game. I honestly thought the game was over when we went up 2TDs (!) in the 4th quarter. Our defense really struggled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 I think it’s worth mentioning that Allen got 20 tier 1 votes and the next closest qb in his same tier was 4. they noted the gap between him and Watson(tier 1), is much smaller than the gap between him and the next tier 2 qb(jackson) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Allen won't reach tier 1 until he gets the Bills to the Superbowl. or Improves on his stats from last year. 80% completions. 60 TDs, and 6000 yards. ...because he has to fight against the media continuing to cling to their Draft analysis. Edited July 28, 2021 by unbillievable 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushypeaches Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 There's no way that Wilson should be ranked above Allen. Yes, there's the sustained success element that Allen doesn't have, but I watched the Bills-Seahawks game last year, and I'm pretty sure who the better QB was that day, and will be this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, unbillievable said: Allen won't reach tier 1 until he gets the Bills to the Superbowl. or Improves on his stats from last year. 80% completions. 60 TDs, and 6000 yards. Allen will reach Tier 1 in almost everybody's mind if he can replicate last season imo. People who don't put him there don't believe he will sustain that level of play for more seasons imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxcar Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 1 minute ago, mushypeaches said: There's no way that Wilson should be ranked above Allen. Yes, there's the sustained success element that Allen doesn't have, but I watched the Bills-Seahawks game last year, and I'm pretty sure who the better QB was that day, and will be this season Just wait for the narrative over the first 6 weeks where people exclaim how they simply can't believe that Wilson has never received an MVP vote before the Seahawks' offense falls off a cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Dumb. He’s clearly near the top of tier 1. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan619 Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 59 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: I think Allen belongs in the 1st Tier, but if someone wants to make the argument that he's had a single great season and needs to do it again before he is considered elite, I can understand that line of thinking. Personally, I don't think last year was lightning in a bottle for Josh, I think it was the first gusts of a hurricane. “I think it was the first gusts of a hurricane”. Very well said, Inigo. Love that thought. Thanks for sharing. Go Bills! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Apparently it's OK that Wilson disappears for huge chunks of games and parts of seasons as well... 8 minutes ago, Doc said: Dumb. He’s clearly near the top of tier 1. I don't think some people are convinced that was real...they want to see it again before they buy in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan619 Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 59 minutes ago, unbillievable said: Allen won't reach tier 1 until he gets the Bills to the Superbowl. or Improves on his stats from last year. 80% completions. 60 TDs, and 6000 yards. ...because he has to fight against the media continuing to cling to their Draft analysis. I definitely see what you’re saying. Analysts often cling to their draft analysis way too long. And, I thought that many held on to their narratives about Allen for too long for awhile. That said, I don’t think that’s the case with Allen anymore. I think most have warmed to him. I believe he should be in tier one but most just want to see sustained success. Four out of the five top tier one QBs do have Super Bowl titles. So, it could be that they want their tier one QBs to at least have been to a Super Bowl but I don’t think it has anything to do with narratives anymore. There may be a few that still feel that way, but overall, I believe he’s beyond that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 4 hours ago, JohnNord said: The annual QB Rankings were released in an article from The Athletic. For the rankings 50 NFL coaches and execs place starting QB’s into 5 different tiers. Josh Allen was their 6th highest rated QB and the highest member of Tier 2. He fell just out of Tier 1 with the biggest knock on him being sustainability and fumbles. He actually received 20 Tier 1 votes which puts him just outside of that level. Overall he received 20 Tier 1 votes and 30 Tier 2 votes. The next closest was DeShaun Watson who edged him with 26 Tier 1 votes, 23 Tier 2 votes, and 1 Tier 3 vote!. You can read the full analysis in the links below: 2021 NFL Quarterback Tiers: 50 coaches and evaluators rank the league’s starters https://theathletic.com/2727336/2021/07/28/2021-nfl-quarterback-tiers-50-coaches-and-evaluators-rank-the-leagues-starters/?source=user_shared_article A lot of positive comments on Allen. Here’s what the skeptical GM and Coaches had to say: For those interested, the Tier 1 QB’s along with the vote count were: 1. Aaron Rogers (50) 2. Patrick Mahomes (50) 3. Tom Brady (41,9) 4. Russell Wilson (40,10) 5. DeShaun Watson (26,23,1) Interesting take. I said in a different thread a few days ago that JA did need to take a step forward in the post season. He was not at his best in those games and the comments here reflect that. (BTW this is not a criticism of JA on my part. I look forward to him taking steps forward - he will continue to do so.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 What bull####. They're just pissed that they didn't pick him and now he beats the ***** outta them. Josh Allen is the best QB in the NFL. We just need to get better around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said: I think it’s worth mentioning that Allen got 20 tier 1 votes and the next closest qb in his same tier was 4. they noted the gap between him and Watson(tier 1), is much smaller than the gap between him and the next tier 2 qb(jackson) That was the exact quote in the article. He’s very close to Tier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Big Turk said: I don't think some people are convinced that was real...they want to see it again before they buy in. No other non-established QB had close to as good of a season. If it were a result of the pandemic, many other QBs would have look really good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Who the hell gave Jimmy Garoppolo the tier 1 vote??? Edited July 28, 2021 by HereComesTheReignAgain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 honestly, for the way they do these things, i think it's fair. they remember allen falling apart in his first playoff game (obv not the whole story, and his roster did worse than he did, but that's what it is), and his bad stats out the gate, and use that to think well his third year might be a fluke and he still makes mistakes (obviously pure bias, given that everyone makes mistakes, the 3 awful picks brady threw against GB was just a chance to show his great leadership). the bottom line, he played as well or better than any qb last season w the exceptions of a aron, and will show exactly what he's made of this season (gold, he's made of solid gold by the way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 41 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: Who the hell gave Jimmy Garoppolo the tier 1 vote??? So, he was basically voted as a tier 1. There just weren't enough pre-established slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrul120 Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 5 hours ago, mushypeaches said: There's no way that Wilson should be ranked above Allen. Yes, there's the sustained success element that Allen doesn't have, but I watched the Bills-Seahawks game last year, and I'm pretty sure who the better QB was that day, and will be this season Yea, looking at the stats as well, Wilson has never had a year as good as Allen had last year in terms of total touchdowns, total yards or completion percentage. If he's placed above Allen it's not because of recent performance but holding on to old narratives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said: Who the hell gave Jimmy Garoppolo the tier 1 vote??? Billicheat who wanted to keep him but Krafty would not allow him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 2 hours ago, billsrul120 said: Yea, looking at the stats as well, Wilson has never had a year as good as Allen had last year in terms of total touchdowns, total yards or completion percentage. If he's placed above Allen it's not because of recent performance but holding on to old narratives. Can you imagine the narrative if Allen threw a Super Bowl losing interception at the goal line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrul120 Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: Can you imagine the narrative if Allen threw a Super Bowl losing interception at the goal line? Dont come at me like that he better run it in himself if we are ever there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 8 hours ago, mushypeaches said: There's no way that Wilson should be ranked above Allen. Yes, there's the sustained success element that Allen doesn't have, but I watched the Bills-Seahawks game last year, and I'm pretty sure who the better QB was that day, and will be this season I would rank Josh 4 behind Mahomes, Rodgers & Brady. I would slide Wilson and Watson to 5/6 based on Russell's age and Watson's pending legal issues/availability. Josh has been incrementally improving every year and I see nothing stopping that trend. He'll throw 40+ with at least 5-6 rushing tds thrown in for good measure. And with a 17 game season, 5000 is very attainable. Josh won't be #2 until Brady & Rodgers retire. And by the time that happens Herbert will be #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 10 hours ago, JohnNord said: The annual QB Rankings were released in an article from The Athletic. For the rankings 50 NFL coaches and execs place starting QB’s into 5 different tiers. Josh Allen was their 6th highest rated QB and the highest member of Tier 2. He fell just out of Tier 1 with the biggest knock on him being sustainability and fumbles. He actually received 20 Tier 1 votes which puts him just outside of that level. Overall he received 20 Tier 1 votes and 30 Tier 2 votes. The next closest was DeShaun Watson who edged him with 26 Tier 1 votes, 23 Tier 2 votes, and 1 Tier 3 vote!. You can read the full analysis in the links below: 2021 NFL Quarterback Tiers: 50 coaches and evaluators rank the league’s starters https://theathletic.com/2727336/2021/07/28/2021-nfl-quarterback-tiers-50-coaches-and-evaluators-rank-the-leagues-starters/?source=user_shared_article A lot of positive comments on Allen. Here’s what the skeptical GM and Coaches had to say: For those interested, the Tier 1 QB’s along with the vote count were: 1. Aaron Rogers (50) 2. Patrick Mahomes (50) 3. Tom Brady (41,9) 4. Russell Wilson (40,10) 5. DeShaun Watson (26,23,1) Beane can use this in contract negotiations 😎 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 I have no idea how someone could hold the Colts playoff game against Allen. He singlehandedly won that game. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 11 hours ago, Boxcar said: Didn't Mahomes set a record for lost yardage on a sack last season? Boy, the selective memory is interesting. Who is taking Brady, Wilson or Watson over Allen next year? Did it not matter that Brady threw three interceptions in the second half against GB with the game on the line? I don't care much about the rankings but the thought process is interesting. Lol yup. Maybe this is the "30 yard sack" that guy was thinking of: https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/12/14/chiefs-dolphins-patrick-mahomes-sack-video I think the Exec is saying - I want to see this repeated and sustainable. I think it is a fair ask. The folks in Tier 1 list are all repeat performers. Allen will silence all his critics with a similar performance this season 39 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I have no idea how someone could hold the Colts playoff game against Allen. He singlehandedly won that game. +1 The drive he had right before half time is of stuff that legends make 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 13 hours ago, Boxcar said: Didn't Mahomes set a record for lost yardage on a sack last season? Yes. And Brady threw 3 picks against GB in the NFCCG I’m like “whatever, I don’t care” 3 hours ago, GoBills808 said: I have no idea how someone could hold the Colts playoff game against Allen. He singlehandedly won that game. I can’t quite go there. Our D had a couple epic stands. But of course, if they didn’t get frogmarched backwards down the field they wouldn’t need to be so epic. But yes, even if I don’t agree that he singlehandedly won that game, Allen is the primary reason we won and went on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 As mentioned cherry picking mistakes on one play ball. Another is not as significant as consistency. I don’t see it unfair to place Allen 6th. When, not if Allen repeats this year, his status should go higher. These coaches and administrators are biased as are we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 22 hours ago, JohnNord said: The annual QB Rankings were released in an article from The Athletic. For the rankings 50 NFL coaches and execs place starting QB’s into 5 different tiers. Josh Allen was their 6th highest rated QB and the highest member of Tier 2. He fell just out of Tier 1 with the biggest knock on him being sustainability and fumbles. He actually received 20 Tier 1 votes which puts him just outside of that level. Overall he received 20 Tier 1 votes and 30 Tier 2 votes. The next closest was DeShaun Watson who edged him with 26 Tier 1 votes, 23 Tier 2 votes, and 1 Tier 3 vote!. You can read the full analysis in the links below: 2021 NFL Quarterback Tiers: 50 coaches and evaluators rank the league’s starters https://theathletic.com/2727336/2021/07/28/2021-nfl-quarterback-tiers-50-coaches-and-evaluators-rank-the-leagues-starters/?source=user_shared_article A lot of positive comments on Allen. Here’s what the skeptical GM and Coaches had to say: For those interested, the Tier 1 QB’s along with the vote count were: 1. Aaron Rogers (50) 2. Patrick Mahomes (50) 3. Tom Brady (41,9) 4. Russell Wilson (40,10) 5. DeShaun Watson (26,23,1) John, thanks for sharing although I’m one if the many who don’t have a subscription. You’ve listed 1-6 including Allen at 6. Would you mind sharing 7-10 or farther if you feel like it. Appreciate as always you’re thoughtful threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: John, thanks for sharing although I’m one if the many who don’t have a subscription. You’ve listed 1-6 including Allen at 6. Would you mind sharing 7-10 or farther if you feel like it. Appreciate as always you’re thoughtful threads. sure here is the rest of Tier 2 7 - tie: Lamar Jackson (4, 38, 8 ) 7- tie: Matthew Stafford (4, 38, 3) 9: Dak Prescott (1, 41, 8 ) 10: Justin Herbert (4, 37, 7, 2) 11: Matt Ryan (0, 32, 18 ) 12: Kyler Murray (0, 30, 18, 2) 13: Ryan Tannehill (0, 27, 23) 14: Joe Burrow (0, 27, 17, 6) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxcar Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes. And Brady threw 3 picks against GB in the NFCCG I’m like “whatever, I don’t care" Sure, but the trend of inconsistent standards applied to Josh are very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 22 minutes ago, Boxcar said: Sure, but the trend of inconsistent standards applied to Josh are very interesting. I think a psychological phenomenon called “confirmation bias” may be at work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 2 hours ago, JohnNord said: sure here is the rest of Tier 2 7 - tie: Lamar Jackson (4, 38, 8 ) 7- tie: Matthew Stafford (4, 38, 3) 9: Dak Prescott (1, 41, 8 ) 10: Justin Herbert (4, 37, 7, 2) 11: Matt Ryan (0, 32, 18 ) 12: Kyler Murray (0, 30, 18, 2) 13: Ryan Tannehill (0, 27, 23) 14: Joe Burrow (0, 27, 17, 6) You Da man Nordster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I can’t quite go there. Our D had a couple epic stands. But of course, if they didn’t get frogmarched backwards down the field they wouldn’t need to be so epic. But yes, even if I don’t agree that he singlehandedly won that game, Allen is the primary reason we won and went on. As well as the primary reason they went 13-3 and earned the #2 seed in the conference. Which leads me to my one big gripe of which tier he is in. Tier 2 was defined as somebody that can occasionally carry their team and be the reason they win. Riding Josh Allen is primary reason the Bills were 15-4 and a game away from the Super Bowl. You don’t have to be an NFL exec or coach on this voting panel to have noticed that. It was extremely obvious. Think I saw a graph in which Allen accounted for a higher % of his teams years and TD’s than any other qb…. Sorry that’s not carrying the team occasionally. That’s your team occasionally helping you out on the way to a 13-3 romp. Edited July 29, 2021 by Stank_Nasty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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