Bruce Smith official and unofficial sack leader

[CorkScrewHill]

They started officially counting sacks as a statistic in the 80s so there was always a question as to whether someone from the 60s or 70s may have had more. Researchers from Pro Football Reference went through all old game film and while there are some new names near the top e.g. Deacon Jones .. Bruce’s 200 is still tops 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/15/bruce-smith-unofficial-sack-leaders-buffalo-bills/

 

he was a sight to see

Edited July 23, 2021 by CorkScrewHill

[Augie]

9 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

They started officially counting sacks as a statistic in the 80s so there was always a question as to whether someone from the 60s or 70s may have had more. Researches went through all old game film and while there are some new names near the top e.g. Deacon Jones .. Bruce’s 200 is still tops 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/15/bruce-smith-unofficial-sack-leaders-buffalo-bills/

 

he was a sight to see

 

 

He was, IMO, the best Buffalo Bills player ever. 

 

I would have let him sit when he wanted a new contract right after his new contract, however. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

 

He was, IMO, the best Buffalo Bills player ever. 

 

I would have let him sit when he wanted a new contract right after his new contract, however. 

 

 

The quickest Bruce ever tried to use leverage to get a new contract was after two years of a three year contract. (He got a new contract in '97 when he'd signed a three-year deal in '95.) That is hardly "right after" his new contract.

 

And that three-year deal was three years for $8.3 M. Not $8.3 M per year, but $8.3 over three years. Even at the time he was worth more.

 

Agreed that he was the best Bills player ever. There are two or thee others in the conversation, but I think he was the best.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

They started officially counting sacks as a statistic in the 80s so there was always a question as to whether someone from the 60s or 70s may have had more. Researchers from Pro Football Reference went through all old game film and while there are some new names near the top e.g. Deacon Jones .. Bruce’s 200 is still tops 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/15/bruce-smith-unofficial-sack-leaders-buffalo-bills/

 

he was a sight to see

 

 

Dude, awesome find. Thanks for posting it.

[MJS]

Fascinating read. That all time sack leader list has a lot of new names on it. And "Bubba" Baker technically has the record for single season sacks with 23, in his rookie year, no less.

[Maynard]

It’s crazy Bruce played for 18 years as well. I agree though, best Buffalo player ever. Guy was absolutely amazing to watch.  They could double team him all day and it didn’t matter.

[Greg S]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The quickest Bruce ever tried to use leverage to get a new contract was after two years of a three year contract. (He got a new contract in '97 when he'd signed a three-year deal in '95.) That is hardly "right after" his new contract.

 

And that three-year deal was three years for $8.3 M. Not $8.3 M per year, but $8.3 over three years. Even at the time he was worth more.

 

Agreed that he was the best Bills player ever. There are two or thee others in the conversation, but I think he was the best.

 

Bruce on defense. OJ on offense. Talent wise best players in Bills history. Both are in the conversation for best ever at their position.

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

They started officially counting sacks as a statistic in the 80s so there was always a question as to whether someone from the 60s or 70s may have had more. Researchers from Pro Football Reference went through all old game film and while there are some new names near the top e.g. Deacon Jones .. Bruce’s 200 is still tops 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/15/bruce-smith-unofficial-sack-leaders-buffalo-bills/

 

he was a sight to see

 

Decided to listen to article since was option.  Advertisement for Patriot Payroll was a bad choice.

[CorkScrewHill]

I remember hearing a quarterback from another team back in the day complaining about how hard it was to play against Bruce, but he said what was worse was Bruce would eat raw garlic before the game and if he got to the quarterback he would lay on him an extra few seconds and just breathe his garlic breath into the quarterback's facemask. The guy was more worried about that then actually getting hit. I can't source it as it was 20+ years ago .. but I always thought that it made Bruce Smith a psychological warfare expert

[1ManRaid]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

And that three-year deal was three years for $8.3 M. Not $8.3 M per year, but $8.3 over three years. Even at the time he was worth more.

 

Don't sign the contract then.

 

And about another former Bills player, don't accept a pay advance borrowing from the next season, then act outraged when that next season has a lower salary.

[Punching Bag]

22 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

I remember hearing a quarterback from another team back in the day complaining about how hard it was to play against Bruce, but he said what was worse was Bruce would eat raw garlic before the game and if he got to the quarterback he would lay on him an extra few seconds and just breathe his garlic breath into the quarterback's facemask. The guy was more worried about that then actually getting hit. I can't source it as it was 20+ years ago .. but I always thought that it made Bruce Smith a psychological warfare expert

 

I love garlic.  When I am cutting garlic for my wife certain parts she does not want so I just nibble on them while cutting.

Same thing for onions.

 

[Punching Bag]

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/02/sports/football/where-have-you-gone-garlic-breath.html

Maybe he got tip from Joe Scibell.

Quote

Smells Like Team Spirit

Joe Scibelli really stank during his N.F.L. career with the Los Angeles Rams, from 1961 to 1975. He was an offensive guard who lined up against many of the toughest behemoths in the game. But Scibelli used a secret weapon to gain a blocking edge: bad breath.

Munching on cloves of raw garlic before and during games, he would exhale into the faces of defensive linemen just before the snap. "Their faces would wrinkle up and they looked like they were going to throw up," he said. "I could blow them away with my breath."

 

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, Augie said:

 

 

He was, IMO, the best Buffalo Bills player ever. 

 

I would have let him sit when he wanted a new contract right after his new contract, however. 

I’d have to put Bruce right behind Thurman Thomas as best Buffalo Bills player ever. Yes, Bruce impacted games with his sacks, but Thurman did it with his rushing, receiving and pass blocking. The NFL recognizes Marshall Faulk as best all around back, but I’d give the nod to Thurman or Marcus Allen 

[Punching Bag]

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I’d have to put Bruce right behind Thurman Thomas as best Buffalo Bills player ever. Yes, Bruce impacted games with his sacks, but Thurman did it with his rushing, receiving and pass blocking. The NFL recognizes Marshall Faulk as best all around back, but I’d give the nod to Thurman or Marcus Allen 

 

Agree. When Marshall Faulk played he was described as "Thurman like" in his play.

[DJB]

14 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I love garlic.  When I am cutting garlic for my wife certain parts she does not want so I just nibble on them while cutting.

Same thing for onions.

 

 

Do you do the same while cutting limes? 

[Punching Bag]

1 minute ago, DJB said:

 

Do you do the same while cutting limes? 

 

I would but my wife does not use them in cooking.

I cannot think of a single Cantonese dish using limes.

[Doc]

36 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

I remember hearing a quarterback from another team back in the day complaining about how hard it was to play against Bruce, but he said what was worse was Bruce would eat raw garlic before the game and if he got to the quarterback he would lay on him an extra few seconds and just breathe his garlic breath into the quarterback's facemask. The guy was more worried about that then actually getting hit. I can't source it as it was 20+ years ago .. but I always thought that it made Bruce Smith a psychological warfare expert

I want to say it was Elway. 

[gjv001]

Has Bruce Smith had any contact with Greg Rousseau? I remember Smith saying he wanted to work with Rousseau.

[NoName]

A lot of these guys have nice stats, however, Bruce got sacks when it mattered.  How many times on a third down did he come around that corner and get a sack that the team needed?  The guy is by far the Best Bills player I have ever seen and I jumped on the bandwagon at the start of the first super bowl.

[transient]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

I want to say it was Elway. 

I also think Boomer Esiason may have mentioned it, possibly during a broadcast.

[starrymessenger]

The great HoFmer Anthony Munoz told Boomer that he would kill him if he didn’t stop trash talking Bruce because he was the one having to deal with the fallout.

’

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The quickest Bruce ever tried to use leverage to get a new contract was after two years of a three year contract. (He got a new contract in '97 when he'd signed a three-year deal in '95.) That is hardly "right after" his new contract.

 

And that three-year deal was three years for $8.3 M. Not $8.3 M per year, but $8.3 over three years. Even at the time he was worth more.

 

Agreed that he was the best Bills player ever. There are two or thee others in the conversation, but I think he was the best.

I wonder what Bruce Smith would’ve commanded in this era in his prime? Possibly Aaron Donald money?

[starrymessenger]

3 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I wonder what Bruce Smith would’ve commanded in this era in his prime? Possibly Aaron Donald money?

A lot. Bruce Smith is very much in the discussion as the best to play at that premium position. That automatically makes him one of best players to ever walk on a football field. 

[BRH]

I was sixteen years old when we drafted Bruce Smith, so I saw a little bit of football before then and a lot afterward.  Bruce Smith is the best defensive end I have ever seen.  If he had played in a 4-3 like Reggie White did with guys like Clyde Simmons and Jerome Brown next to him?  The sack total race wouldn't even be close.

 

And about the money.  I used to get ticked when he sat out, like everyone else.  Then he'd make some great clutch play in his first game back that no one else in the league could make, and I'd look at my dad and go "he's worth it."  With apologies to Thurman, OJ, et al, Bruce Smith is really the one Buffalo Bill that we can claim is the very best ever at his position and know that while other teams' fans might argue, deep down they know we're right.

 

I just wish he wasn't afraid of the damn flu shot, that's all.

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I wonder what Bruce Smith would’ve commanded in this era in his prime? Possibly Aaron Donald money?

 

Aaron Donald would be wishing he got Bruce Smith money.

[machine gun kelly]

11 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

Bruce on defense. OJ on offense. Talent wise best players in Bills history. Both are in the conversation for best ever at their position.

well I’ve said in 1973 in 14 games OJ ran FOR 148.1 yards per game.  The best ever even back in the 12 game era with Jim Brown.  OJ as a person is rotten.

 

I think in offense we may be redefining that Best bills offense ever to a guy who wears 17.  It will take another decade and consistency, but certainly possible.

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

The great HoFmer Anthony Munoz told Boomer that he would kill him if he didn’t stop trash talking Bruce because he was the one having to deal with the fallout.

’

Nice!  I played OL and wore #78.  Both Munoz and Smith's #.  

 

The guys doing the work... 

[starrymessenger]

9 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Nice!  I played OL and wore #78.  Both Munoz and Smith's #.  

 

The guys doing the work... 

 Smith vs Munoz. A clash of mighty opposites. 

[DCofNC]

I don’t think it’s even a question, he’s the best player the Bills have ever had.   He is one of, if not, the best ever at his position.  The only other possible guy you could mention being in that scenario is OJ.  Thurman, while great, not one of the absolute best ever.  Reed, Kelly, Lofton, all great, but no where near the best ever.   Allen has the talent to put himself in that conversation with another decade of success like last year, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

[Solomon Grundy]

27 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I don’t think it’s even a question, he’s the best player the Bills have ever had.   He is one of, if not, the best ever at his position.  The only other possible guy you could mention being in that scenario is OJ.  Thurman, while great, not one of the absolute best ever.  Reed, Kelly, Lofton, all great, but no where near the best ever.   Allen has the talent to put himself in that conversation with another decade of success like last year, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

IMO, Thurman Thomas was one of the absolute best all purpose RBs in the NFL. I also believe if he was force fed the football like Emmitt Smith was, his rushing yardage would be much higher. Remember, Barry Sanders was RB2 at Oklahoma State.

[BillsPride12]

It's cool they did this study and interesting that Bruce is still number 1 when you tally up the years before sacks became an official stat.  I had always heard growing up that if they counted sacks back in the day Deacon Jones would've been the all-time sack leader by far.

[DCofNC]

32 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

IMO, Thurman Thomas was one of the absolute best all purpose RBs in the NFL. I also believe if he was force fed the football like Emmitt Smith was, his rushing yardage would be much higher. Remember, Barry Sanders was RB2 at Oklahoma State.

I can respect that opinion, but in the eyes of the rest of the world, he’s not in the conversation as the best ever.  Stats do play a part in it and while I agree with you, I think he was a better back than Emmitt personally, you can’t validate the “what if’s”, so he will not be given that credit.

 

with respect to Barry Sanders, it’s not uncommon at all for the senior player to hold back a younger player, so as fun if a fact as it may be that Thurman was the starter, it’s arbitrary.

[Punching Bag]

53 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I can respect that opinion, but in the eyes of the rest of the world, he’s not in the conversation as the best ever.  Stats do play a part in it and while I agree with you, I think he was a better back than Emmitt personally, you can’t validate the “what if’s”, so he will not be given that credit.

 

with respect to Barry Sanders, it’s not uncommon at all for the senior player to hold back a younger player, so as fun if a fact as it may be that Thurman was the starter, it’s arbitrary.

 

Emmitt was one way MUCH better than Thurman - acting.  He'd act out injuries to give his team a break, be taken out with announcers saying he may be out for rest of game and then one player later he would be playing.  It was to point in sports bars patrons would be saying he will be back in one play when announcers repeat their spiel. 

[Mikie2times]

Deacon Jones, just wow. How neat seeing this. Congrats Bruce, the all time spot is the all time spot.

 

Just floored by Jones. I always knew it would be high, but averaging more than a sack per game started with 3 seasons at 20+ in 14 game seasons. 

[billsfan89]

The methodology of these estimates may not be full proof but it is a nice way to have some sort of understanding of sacks throughout NFL history

[Buffalo Junction]

23 hours ago, BRH said:

I was sixteen years old when we drafted Bruce Smith, so I saw a little bit of football before then and a lot afterward.  Bruce Smith is the best defensive end I have ever seen.  If he had played in a 4-3 like Reggie White did with guys like Clyde Simmons and Jerome Brown next to him?  The sack total race wouldn't even be close.

 

And about the money.  I used to get ticked when he sat out, like everyone else.  Then he'd make some great clutch play in his first game back that no one else in the league could make, and I'd look at my dad and go "he's worth it."  With apologies to Thurman, OJ, et al, Bruce Smith is really the one Buffalo Bill that we can claim is the very best ever at his position and know that while other teams' fans might argue, deep down they know we're right.

 

I just wish he wasn't afraid of the damn flu shot, that's all.

 

Aaron Donald would be wishing he got Bruce Smith money.

I always hated that narrative. It ignores how White played in several different schemes including a 3-4 in the USFL before joining the Eagles, plus Whites sack totals went down after Simmons came on. Then there’s all the two and three man fronts that Fritz Shurmur used to employ with the Packers: most notably a 3-3 big nickel. 
 

It’s just an impossible argument as to which was definitively better, and the line in the sand is based on personal biases. 
 

That said, I go with Bruce because…. Well…. I’m here and go to Bills games and not on a Packers forum forming prayers about A-Aron. 🤷‍♂️

[Victory Formation]

On 7/23/2021 at 7:58 AM, Greg S said:

 

Bruce on defense. OJ on offense. Talent wise best players in Bills history. Both are in the conversation for best ever at their position.

Even now I’d have to put Josh ahead of OJ and I know that OJ is in the same echelon as Barry Sanders for sure.

10 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

IMO, Thurman Thomas was one of the absolute best all purpose RBs in the NFL. I also believe if he was force fed the football like Emmitt Smith was, his rushing yardage would be much higher. Remember, Barry Sanders was RB2 at Oklahoma State.

Thurman was great, Barry was the best..

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

So glad to have these statistics, but we shouldn't forget that Bruce played in 16-game seasons, whereas Deacon played at most 14 games a year.

Deacon, however, also played in a league that allowed DEs to come off the ball with a vigorous head slap to the OL in front of them... Always a problem with comparing cumulative career statistics across eras.

 

Both were great players, for sure. Bruce was the greatest Bill (even if it's close). Notably, neither Deacon Jones nor Bruce Smith ever played on an NFL champion.

 

P.S. And suck it, Michael Strahan. That phantom sack of Favre to get your one-year record is an abomination.

Edited July 26, 2021 by RJ (not THAT RJ)
Added a P.S.

[P Riv]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:46 PM, Buffalo Junction said:

I always hated that narrative. It ignores how White played in several different schemes including a 3-4 in the USFL before joining the Eagles, plus Whites sack totals went down after Simmons came on. Then there’s all the two and three man fronts that Fritz Shurmur used to employ with the Packers: most notably a 3-3 big nickel. 
 

It’s just an impossible argument as to which was definitively better, and the line in the sand is based on personal biases. 
 

That said, I go with Bruce because…. Well…. I’m here and go to Bills games and not on a Packers forum forming prayers about A-Aron. 🤷‍♂️

 

ESPN has a compelling argument for White and Bruce isn't even part of it.  http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/041230

[RiotAct]

5 hours ago, RJ (not THAT RJ) said:

So glad to have these statistics, but we shouldn't forget that Bruce played in 16-game seasons, whereas Deacon played at most 14 games a year.

Deacon, however, also played in a league that allowed DEs to come off the ball with a vigorous head slap to the OL in front of them... Always a problem with comparing cumulative career statistics across eras.

 

Both were great players, for sure. Bruce was the greatest Bill (even if it's close). Notably, neither Deacon Jones nor Bruce Smith ever played on an NFL champion.

 

plus, didn’t offense run the ball a lot more in Deacon Jones’ era?

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

53 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

plus, didn’t offense run the ball a lot more in Deacon Jones’ era?

 

Also very true. Now, when they did throw the QB was more likely to drop deep and look long (no West Coast Offense in the 1960s) and the rules against offense holding were stricter, so that might make rushing the passer slightly easier... but you get the point.