The Lesson in the Sabres Horrendous Season

[BADOLBILZ]

 

For you non-Sabres followers who do not know how fragile the Bills success is:

 

Sabres beat reporter Paul Hamilton recently stated on WGR that he knows that the Pegula's regret giving McBeane as much authority as they have.......despite the success........so not to expect them to do the same for anyone with the Sabres.

 

That is simply a scary thought coming from a well connected, veteran beat reporter...........so let's hope they stay on good terms with McBeane.    

 

Keep in mind that the Sabres are the worst organization in north american major pro sports............by a lot........it gets no worse than the Pegula lead Sabres..........which I believe was another statistical takeaway from that 538 article.     

 

If you don't think the Bills success can be undone by meddling from the stewards of the worst franchise around............hey, when John Butler quit the vast majority of this very board thought that there was no way that the organization could fall out of contention.    The very thought was a big joke on this board.  10 playoff trips and 4 SB appearances in 12 years.........and owner who seemed willing to pay whenever his GM asked.  

 

Ralph was bordering on beloved by those(myself included) who hadn't really suffered thru his terrible late 60's-mid 80's stewardship. 

 

The ship lost it's rudder when Butler and co. left town.........and it soon became obvious AGAIN just how bad of a football man Ralph was.

 

And,  bless Terry Pegula for his generosity to WNY..........but he makes Ralph look like Dan Rooney by comparison as a man of the sport.    

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[RochesterLifer]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

For you non-Sabres followers who do not know how fragile the Bills success is:

 

Sabres beat reporter Paul Hamilton recently stated on WGR that he knows that the Pegula's regret giving McBeane as much authority as they have.......despite the success........so not to expect them to do the same for anyone with the Sabres.

 

That is simply a scary thought coming from a well connected, veteran beat reporter...........so let's hope they stay on good terms with McBeane.    

 

Keep in mind that the Sabres are the worst organization in north american major pro sports............by a lot........it gets no worse than the Pegula lead Sabres..........which I believe was another statistical takeaway from that 538 article.     

 

If you don't think the Bills success can be undone by meddling from the stewards of the worst franchise around............hey, when John Butler quit the vast majority of this very board thought that there was no way that the organization could fall out of contention.    The very thought was a big joke on this board.  10 playoff trips and 4 SB appearances in 12 years.........and owner who seemed willing to pay whenever his GM asked.  

 

Ralph was bordering on beloved by those(myself included) who hadn't really suffered thru his terrible late 60's-mid 80's stewardship. 

 

The ship lost it's rudder when Butler and co. left town.........and it soon became obvious AGAIN just how bad of a football man Ralph was.

 

And,  bless Terry Pegula for his generosity to WNY..........but he makes Ralph look like Dan Rooney by comparison as a man of the sport.    

 

 

 

We’re all going to die! 😳

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

We’re all going to die! 😳

 

PERFECT response.

 

The origin of the "DOOOOOOOOOOMED"  thing on TSW was people who were making light of the Bills pending salary cap dilemma and general outlook in the wake of the Music City Miracle. 

 

The 17 year sentence of doooooooom.....aka "the drought"......went fast for me because the tailgates were awesome............but for those that watch from their couch and don't have that communitas aspect to enjoy and just live and die with the results........I'm told it was kinda' rough.😉

 

[Coach Tuesday]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

For you non-Sabres followers who do not know how fragile the Bills success is:

 

Sabres beat reporter Paul Hamilton recently stated on WGR that he knows that the Pegula's regret giving McBeane as much authority as they have.......despite the success........so not to expect them to do the same for anyone with the Sabres.

 

That is simply a scary thought coming from a well connected, veteran beat reporter...........so let's hope they stay on good terms with McBeane.    

 

Keep in mind that the Sabres are the worst organization in north american major pro sports............by a lot........it gets no worse than the Pegula lead Sabres..........which I believe was another statistical takeaway from that 538 article.     

 

If you don't think the Bills success can be undone by meddling from the stewards of the worst franchise around............hey, when John Butler quit the vast majority of this very board thought that there was no way that the organization could fall out of contention.    The very thought was a big joke on this board.  10 playoff trips and 4 SB appearances in 12 years.........and owner who seemed willing to pay whenever his GM asked.  

 

Ralph was bordering on beloved by those(myself included) who hadn't really suffered thru his terrible late 60's-mid 80's stewardship. 

 

The ship lost it's rudder when Butler and co. left town.........and it soon became obvious AGAIN just how bad of a football man Ralph was.

 

And,  bless Terry Pegula for his generosity to WNY..........but he makes Ralph look like Dan Rooney by comparison as a man of the sport.    

 

 

 

In May of last year after another disastrous season, Kim gave a condescending press conference where she assured Sabres fans that Jason Botterill would be returning, saying, “ We have a little bit more information than maybe a fan does…”  

 

The next month the Pegulas fired Botterill.

 

So what was the point on pissing on the fans?  But that “we know better” attitude seems to pervade the thinking at PSE.  What’s going to happen is likely this: the Bills’ success is only going to confirm to Kim and Terry that everything they touch turns to gold, leading them to try to take leverage back from Beane and McDermott in a couple of years and/or when the team inevitably has an off year.  They have proven with the Sabres that, given the chance, they’ll run a horizontal organization which employs their friends and other unqualified individuals.  They have an addiction to rookie GMs - easier to push around.  They think they know better than the fans.  Their track record with the Sabres shows they have no clue what the hell they are doing.

[bobblehead]

Whether the Pegulas regret it or not, they have stepped away from mgmt of the Bills because McBeane can be trusted to let that happen.  The Sabres are no where near that. Regardless of ownership meddling, the people running the Sabres can’t be trusted. A novice football fan can see the difference between the Bills and anyone they play against. The Bills have a QB who can throw the s%it out the football and now, even accurately with receivers who seem always open. Most of thier competition can’t do that. A novice hockey fan can visibly see the difference in play between the Sabres and anyone they play.  A Sabre can’t skate 10 feet with the puck without someone getting all up on thier ass, meanwhile everyone they play against can consistently March right up the center of the rink right to the net untouched.  Point is, although anything can happen during the year, even the novice can visibly see that these two teams are not the same. 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, bobblehead said:

Whether the Pegulas regret it or not, they have stepped away from mgmt of the Bills because McBeane can be trusted to let that happen.  The Sabres are no where near that. Regardless of ownership meddling, the people running the Sabres can’t be trusted. A novice football fan can see the difference between the Bills and anyone they play against. The Bills have a QB who can throw the s%it out the football and now, even accurately with receivers who seem always open. Most of thier competition can’t do that. A novice hockey fan can visibly see the difference in play between the Sabres and anyone they play.  A Sabre can’t skate 10 feet with the puck without someone getting all up on thier ass, meanwhile everyone they play against can consistently March right up the center of the rink right to the net untouched.  Point is, although anything can happen during the year, even the novice can visibly see that these two teams are not the same. 

That’s kind of a funny way to put it - the Pegulas ARE “the people running the Sabres.”  And they refuse to hire anyone with an actual track record, because of course, they know better.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[bobblehead]

28 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

We’re all going to die! 😳

 

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

That’s kind of a funny way to put it - the Pegulas ARE “the people who run the Sabres.”  And they refuse to hire anyone with an actual track record, because of course, they know better.

I guess what I’m saying is that, even though mcBeane were those same people without a track record at the time, thier situation today is what it is.  I should have said Adams instead of “the people running the Sabres”.  Unfortunately, you’re right about first timers and the Pegulas and our only hope is that they eventually hit on the right people for the Sabres. But I still stand on saying the two teams are not the same. How they got there, though -  yes I agree with you but it is what it is now. 

[bobblehead]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

That’s kind of a funny way to put it - the Pegulas ARE “the people who run the Sabres.”  And they refuse to hire anyone with an actual track record, because of course, they know better.

Also. I should have realized at the time of the Lafontaine fiasco that there is something seriously wrong there. I wish I knew the real story behind that 

[Coach Tuesday]

7 minutes ago, bobblehead said:

Also. I should have realized at the time of the Lafontaine fiasco that there is something seriously wrong there. I wish I knew the real story behind that 

Having worked with many family offices - most of them are dysfunctional.  They exist to manage accrued wealth and employ undeserving kin.  That’s it.  The Pegulas aren’t saints.  They run the Bills and Sabres to make money, have fun, and employ their friends and family in the entertainment world.  They basically admitted as much with the whole “maintain our lifestyle” PowerPoint fiasco which was rumored to have caused McDermott to raise an eyebrow (he got a plum extension soon after).  

 

Family offices are notoriously untrusting of, and harsh with respect to, outsiders.  They don’t want someone coming in and shining a spotlight on the day to day dysfunction and outright nepotism.  LaFontaine came in as a well-connected outsider who couldn’t be bullied and was known to voice his opinions.  He had leverage, his own brand, and other opportunities.  He didn’t need that job.  That he didn’t last long was unsurprising.  And that was the last time they brought in someone from the league establishment to help manage the Sabres.  The results speak for themselves.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[LHS78Billsfan]

How much has the draft lottery format hurt the Sabres?  Worst record and the Oilers get Connor McDavid! How many top 1-2-3 picks have they lost out on because the ping pong balls give a team with a better record a higher pick.  Personally I don’t like this system because it seems more fair to give the worst team the first choice every year.  Lady Luck plays a part too.  This coupled with the fact there are mostly misses in even the first round of the NHL draft.  Much harder to get on the ice than the gridiron.  

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, LHS78Billsfan said:

How much has the draft lottery format hurt the Sabres?  Worst record and the Oilers get Connor McDavid! How many top 1-2-3 picks have they lost out on because the ping pong balls give a team with a better record a higher pick.  Personally I don’t like this system because it seems more fair to give the worst team the first choice every year.  Lady Luck plays a part too.  This coupled with the fact there are mostly misses in even the first round of the NHL draft.  Much harder to get on the ice than the gridiron.  

The Sabres have what, 4 recent top 5 picks on their roster in Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin, Hall.  How many other teams have that?  Lottery ain’t the issue.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, LHS78Billsfan said:

How much has the draft lottery format hurt the Sabres?  Worst record and the Oilers get Connor McDavid! How many top 1-2-3 picks have they lost out on because the ping pong balls give a team with a better record a higher pick.  Personally I don’t like this system because it seems more fair to give the worst team the first choice every year.  Lady Luck plays a part too.  This coupled with the fact there are mostly misses in even the first round of the NHL draft.  Much harder to get on the ice than the gridiron.  

 

 

The moment when they lost the McDavid lottery was IMO tied with the MCM......behind wide right.....for the second worst singular moment in time in Buffalo sports history.

 

But they have still had enough good fortune(and earned draft pick position) in the lottery otherwise where they should be a perennial cup contender anyway.

 

 

[LHS78Billsfan]

Posted 29 minutes ago

   32 minutes ago,  LHS78Billsfan said: 

How much has the draft lottery format hurt the Sabres?  Worst record and the Oilers get Connor McDavid! How many top 1-2-3 picks have they lost out on because the ping pong balls give a team with a better record a higher pick.  Personally I don’t like this system because it seems more fair to give the worst team the first choice every year.  Lady Luck plays a part too.  This coupled with the fact there are mostly misses in even the first round of the NHL draft.  Much harder to get on the ice than the gridiron.  

The Sabres have what, 4 recent top 5 picks on their roster in Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin, Hall.  How many other teams have that?  Lottery ain’t the issue.

 

2020 tied for 6th worst record.  Pick 8

2019 4th worst record.  Pick 7

2017 5th worst record. Pick 8

2015 McDavid

2014 Reinhart taken second (worst record)

 

point was and maybe it doesn’t explain all of the trouble...but the cumulative effects of not getting lucky in the lottery has had an impact. Doesn’t matter how many top 5 picks you had.  If you had the worst record and missed out on a few number one overall picks it matters.

[BruceVilanch]

The saddest part is the best goalie in Buffalo plays for the Bills and not the sabres. 

 

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Having worked with many family offices - most of them are dysfunctional.  They exist to manage accrued wealth and employ undeserving kin.  That’s it.  The Pegulas aren’t saints.  They run the Bills and Sabres to make money, have fun, and employ their friends and family in the entertainment world.  They basically admitted as much with the whole “maintain our lifestyle” PowerPoint fiasco which was rumored to have caused McDermott to raise an eyebrow (he got a plum extension soon after).  

 

Family offices are notoriously untrusting of, and harsh with respect to, outsiders.  They don’t want someone coming in and shining a spotlight on the day to day dysfunction and outright nepotism.  LaFontaine came in as a well-connected outsider who couldn’t be bullied and was known to voice his opinions.  He had leverage, his own brand, and other opportunities.  He didn’t need that job.  That he didn’t last long was unsurprising.  And that was the last time they brought in someone from the league establishment to help manage the Sabres.  The results speak for themselves.

You’ve got it all figured out and all you had to do was use sweeping generalizations.

[Mr. K]

If Beane and McDermott leave the franchise with a quote like "pain and suffering" I will be concerned.

[Buftex]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

For you non-Sabres followers who do not know how fragile the Bills success is:

 

Sabres beat reporter Paul Hamilton recently stated on WGR that he knows that the Pegula's regret giving McBeane as much authority as they have.......despite the success........so not to expect them to do the same for anyone with the Sabres.

 

That is simply a scary thought coming from a well connected, veteran beat reporter...........so let's hope they stay on good terms with McBeane.    

  

 

 

 

This is the second time I have seen this posted in recent days... I respect Hamilton as a an observer of the Sabres...but how the ***** would he know that the Pegula's "regret" giving Beane and McDermott as much authority as they have?  Did either of the Pegulas' tell him this?  

[Nextmanup]

9 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

The "lesson" might be, that the Pegula's finally fell into LUCK concerning the Bills (McDermott & Bean).

Prior to them the Pegula's were striking out with their GM & Coaching search.

With the Sabres, they have not hired the right people to run the hockey organization. Are they still hoping for those "lucky" hires???

All I know is that IMHO they do NOT know how to run a sports franchise, particularly the Sabres. Thank God they struck gold with McBean!

You have hit on only half the equation.

 

The key distinction between the Bills and Sabres is that the Pegulas do not fancy themselves football people, so they have stayed the F out of the way in Orchard Park.

They do fancy themselves hockey people, and are constantly meddling in internal Sabres affairs.

 

As long as Pegula operates the Sabres in this manner, they will be terrible.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said:

 

Rex Ryan and Anthony Lynn, then McDermott

Doug Whaley, then Beane

Folks have really short memories around here, don't they?

 

LMFAO

 

 

[JohnNord]

12 hours ago, IronyAbounds said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-that-could-go-wrong-for-the-buffalo-sabres-has-gone-wrong/?ex_cid=538twitter

 

No, this isn't a post about the Sabres, per se, it is the cautionary tale for the Bills. As the Sabres' horrendous season starkly demonstrates, improvement and optimistic signs of growth in one season do automatically translate to continued improvement and growth in the next. Everyone expected the Sabres to be better this year, but as the article points out a multitude of factors, some random, others not, obliterated the hoped for playoff push. Similarly, the reasonable expectation is that the Bills will be better this year and could easily be Super Bowl contenders. Yet, all it might take is a single injury (e.g., Allen) and the best laid plans are demolished. Covid could also continue to have some effect on the season. You always have to have an eye on the future in the NFL or any sport, but it is also important to seize every opportunity to win now (which is why the KC loss was hard to stomach). It's a difficult balancing act, and so far Beane seems to have done a good job. I'm very hopeful for 2021, but fingers crossed that the Sabres' experience won't be repeated by the Bills.

Funny how you could said the same thing

about the Bills and Josh Allen in 2019, before the start of the 2020 season.  Many people did!  How did that work out?

[oldmanfan]

8 hours ago, bobblehead said:

Also. I should have realized at the time of the Lafontaine fiasco that there is something seriously wrong there. I wish I knew the real story behind that 

Lafontaine quit as an advisor to the Islanders within weeks too.  Maybe it’s something with him.  Maybe Patty can’t take having a boss.

[QCity]

If Terry announces that his wife will be more involved with football operations, then you can panic. 

[T master]

Every season is a new one as i have heard reference made to by the players that McD coaches it isn't a given that the cards will fall a certain way the Sabres have the talent to compete but coaching and as McD says the process of getting there needs to be laid down and it starts at the top .

 

Beane has been masterful at covering all the bases at least it seems that way i don't keep up as much with the Sabres but i believe they don't yet have the right fit from the top down to get every one pulling in the same direction .

 

If they had some one that has a proven track record rather than a soccer coach to lead them i believe their W/L record could be much different but until the Pegs find "The Man" to lead them they could stay where they are at and continue to climb a very long up hill battle . 

 

Go Bills- GO Sabres ...

[Kwai San]

12 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  Let's say a decade.  84-85 was the pits.  Also, the Sabres have sucked for going on 15 years.  While the Bills playoff drought lasted a long time, they weren't perennially bad like the Sabres.

 

Are you not referring to 3 closer to 4 decades ago????

[JMF2006]

The lessons are 

1) Your core needs to be developed within the organization

 

2)You don't hire first time GM's to do a rebuild

 

3) You never hire a soccer guy to coach(especially one named Freddy Kruger)

 

4)Signing free agent goalies is hit or miss and mostly miss if he was that good he wouldn't be an FA (except Bob in FLA) trade for the guy you really like

 

5)The morale and confidence is shot on the Sabres

 

This is so unlikely to happen with the Bills its almost laughable....short of a plane crash this team is going to good to great for while.

[Greg S]

14 hours ago, IronyAbounds said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-that-could-go-wrong-for-the-buffalo-sabres-has-gone-wrong/?ex_cid=538twitter

 

No, this isn't a post about the Sabres, per se, it is the cautionary tale for the Bills. As the Sabres' horrendous season starkly demonstrates, improvement and optimistic signs of growth in one season do automatically translate to continued improvement and growth in the next. Everyone expected the Sabres to be better this year, but as the article points out a multitude of factors, some random, others not, obliterated the hoped for playoff push. Similarly, the reasonable expectation is that the Bills will be better this year and could easily be Super Bowl contenders. Yet, all it might take is a single injury (e.g., Allen) and the best laid plans are demolished. Covid could also continue to have some effect on the season. You always have to have an eye on the future in the NFL or any sport, but it is also important to seize every opportunity to win now (which is why the KC loss was hard to stomach). It's a difficult balancing act, and so far Beane seems to have done a good job. I'm very hopeful for 2021, but fingers crossed that the Sabres' experience won't be repeated by the Bills.

 

The Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 10 years or so. The Bills have made it in 3 of the last 4 seasons and appear to be getting better. The Bills have a solid management team with Beane and McDermott. The Sabres do not. You can't compare the two organizations.

[John Gianelli]

15 hours ago, IronyAbounds said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-that-could-go-wrong-for-the-buffalo-sabres-has-gone-wrong/?ex_cid=538twitter

 

No, this isn't a post about the Sabres, per se, it is the cautionary tale for the Bills. As the Sabres' horrendous season starkly demonstrates, improvement and optimistic signs of growth in one season do automatically translate to continued improvement and growth in the next. Everyone expected the Sabres to be better this year, but as the article points out a multitude of factors, some random, others not, obliterated the hoped for playoff push. Similarly, the reasonable expectation is that the Bills will be better this year and could easily be Super Bowl contenders. Yet, all it might take is a single injury (e.g., Allen) and the best laid plans are demolished. Covid could also continue to have some effect on the season. You always have to have an eye on the future in the NFL or any sport, but it is also important to seize every opportunity to win now (which is why the KC loss was hard to stomach). It's a difficult balancing act, and so far Beane seems to have done a good job. I'm very hopeful for 2021, but fingers crossed that the Sabres' experience won't be repeated by the Bills.

Am I reading this wrong, or did you instead mean to say "do not automatically translate"?

[Kwai San]

9 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

You’ve got it all figured out and all you had to do was use sweeping generalizations.

 

Currently working in a small family run organization I can FULLY attest to what was said by @Coach Tuesday.  They, family run businesses have a level of suckatude that is unlike anything I have see while working in the corporate world.  You really have to live it to believe it.  If you have not lived it you wouldn't couldn't understand it and would be very blasé about it.  Like you are being.......walk a mile in the shoes before you diss it.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Kwai San

[North Buffalo]

Sabres have so many issues thru to ownership.  There is talent but not sure it meshes well.  Player development has sucked for a decade. Talent e v a l has sucked... scouting department decimated and then we get to coaches oof and player usage.   Granato seems ok.. goalies are finally percolating but still a ways off but what a shiite show.

[Greg S]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Similar to Dolan and the Knicks and Rangers. Guy is clueless about hockey so he lets the hockey people run the show and they are highly successful.... he thinks he knows basketball and the Knicks have been a laughing stock for years(although now finally are respectable).

 

Rangers started play in 1926. In 95 years they have only 4 Stanley Cups(worst among all original 6 teams) and 3 of those were won before expansion. So 1 Cup in 95 years post expansion. Their coach David Quinn is in his 3rd year and they still haven't made the playoffs. They will probably miss again this year. Rangers fans think they have a Yankees history and tradition when in reality they are more like the Jets/Mets. Don't know where you are getting "highly successful" from.

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, IronyAbounds said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everything-that-could-go-wrong-for-the-buffalo-sabres-has-gone-wrong/?ex_cid=538twitter

 

No, this isn't a post about the Sabres, per se, it is the cautionary tale for the Bills. As the Sabres' horrendous season starkly demonstrates, improvement and optimistic signs of growth in one season do automatically translate to continued improvement and growth in the next. Everyone expected the Sabres to be better this year, but as the article points out a multitude of factors, some random, others not, obliterated the hoped for playoff push. Similarly, the reasonable expectation is that the Bills will be better this year and could easily be Super Bowl contenders. Yet, all it might take is a single injury (e.g., Allen) and the best laid plans are demolished. Covid could also continue to have some effect on the season. You always have to have an eye on the future in the NFL or any sport, but it is also important to seize every opportunity to win now (which is why the KC loss was hard to stomach). It's a difficult balancing act, and so far Beane seems to have done a good job. I'm very hopeful for 2021, but fingers crossed that the Sabres' experience won't be repeated by the Bills.

 

 

Come on...it's been 10 years of this.

 

It's been a dysfunctional mess for a decade.  It isn't about a key guy getting injured. 

 

This makes no sense.

[Nuncha]

Pegula said the Sabres would win "cups" when he took over as owner.  Maybe he meant protective cups?

Edited March 25, 2021 by Azucho98

[BillsVet]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

You’d think the Pegulas would be more self aware that they are ***** clueless when it comes to sports..... I’d expect the Bills to be down for a significant amount of time if things ever go south with McBeane and the Pegulas decide to ever let them go.... 

 

Kim to me seems to be the Marie Antoinette in all of this, especially since she assumed the presidency for both teams.  I never thought that when Terry was spending big dollars 8-9 years ago on the Sabres that Kim was as concerned about the financial health of the team because they hadn't yet spent on the Bills.  The Sabres were Terry's toy and he had money.  They maintained the lifestyle. 

 

Fast forward to today and they were losing a reported 40-60M per season with the Sabres even before the pandemic.  Only now, they have a massive acquisition with the Bills that doesn't afford them the flexibility with the Sabres as they previously had.  I think Kim loves the lifestyle of being a billionaire and insists that can never change, hence the power-point slide presented last year. 

 

They are clueless, but unlike a publicly traded company there's no one to hold them accountable.  Even local media aside from a few individuals won't do it because the Pegula's have silenced some critics through denying access to the team.  And then Kim made the statements about being misled by the NHL about hiring executives and how they knew more than the fans.  It's a big ego thing and there's nothing more destructive in this world than people with that issue who can't live in reality.  And when you're billionaires you don't have to live in the real world.  You can buy your way out of problems...except as owners of a moribund hockey team. 

 

  

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Buftex said:

This is the second time I have seen this posted in recent days... I respect Hamilton as a an observer of the Sabres...but how the ***** would he know that the Pegula's "regret" giving Beane and McDermott as much authority as they have?  Did either of the Pegulas' tell him this?  

 

He simply says "he knows for a fact".    

 

That + his earned respect as a beat reporter(a job he risks with criticism of the team) + actually watching The Pegula's micromanage the Sabres into the worst franchise in sports = form your own opinion.

 

 

 

[Greg S]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I was more so referring to recent history under Dolan. I mean they went to the playoffs like 11 of 12 years with a SC appearance within the last decade plus. That's a pretty damn good successful run.... even for hockey standards....nobody is the Yankees. And they are no where near the Mets/Jets misery. 

 

And they went to the playoffs in the 2019-2020 season. Your response just sounds bitter.

 

 

 

 

Not bitter just stating facts. Last year's "playoffs" that you refer to was the qualifier round. That wasn't Rd 1. Teams had played anywhere between 67-70 games before everything got shut down. Since they couldn't finish the regular season the league created qualifier rounds to make it as fair as possible to see who makes it in. For example the Isles beat Florida in the qualifier round then faced the Caps in Rd 1, Flyers in Rd 2, before losing to the Lightning in the ECF. Like I said the Rangers haven't made the playoffs during Quinn's 3 years as HC. One Cup post expansion and 4 overall in 95 years definitely puts them in Jets/Mets territory.

[LabattBlue]

They can't even compete for a playoff spot over the last decade in a league where half the teams make the playoffs each year.  A Sabres team that is challenging for the Cup is so far off in the distance, it's not visible without a telescope.  Sad times for Sabres fans. 

 

They have wrecked this franchise.

Edited March 25, 2021 by BTB

[zow2]

It's almost as if the Pegulas have done every single thing wrong with the Sabres over the course of a decade to lead to this.  Maybe the most non-competitive NHL club since the early Cleveland Barons or KC Scouts.  They were only marginally better with Eichel and Ullmark but still league bottom feeders.

 

I would trade Eichel and as many of the core as possible,,,,get a goalie and retool the entire roster.  I'd only keep Reinhart, Cozens, Ullmark and McCabe.  Everyone else should be traded.  Ideally the Pegula's would put the team up for sale too.  They have proven they suck as hockey owners.  They've ruined a once proud franchise.

[oldmanfan]

The Sabres need to find a HC in hockey like they have in McD for the Bills.  They need a guy with  a specific and detailed plan on how to build a consistent winner, and then either make sure he's in sync with Adams or, if not, let the new HC bring in his own GM that he knows he can work with.  Then the new HC and GM need to make it clear what their expectations are, and have the freedom to move guys out that do not want to buy in.  And from looking at this roster that's plenty of players, starting with their captain.  You need guys with grit who are all about hockey; Eichel is not that and you cannot have as your captain a guy who pouts all the time.  Kruger may not have been the greatest HC, but I have watched the Sabres since 1970 (and the Bisons before that), and I have never seen a group of weaker, disinterested players as I do now.  Keep a couple guys like Cozens who haven't been tainted yet, get guys with guts and heart to go with him, and you'll start winning again (oh, and Kevin, a goaile - you haven't had a decent one since Miller)

 

It is fashionable I know to talk about bringing in a President of Hockey, who then picks the HC and GM and such.  I've never been a fan of such moves.  Sometimes it works like with Lou L,  but many times it doesn't and just adds another administrative layer.  People always talk about how the team has been cursed since LaFontaine left  so quickly as proof of ownership dysfunction, but he did the same thing with the Islanders.  Maybe Patty isn't suited for such a role.   Again, I look at the Bills as an example.  A lot of people wanted Polian brought in when they got rid of Ryan and such.  But when you have the right coach and GM in sync, I don't think you need anyone else.

 

As for the owners, guess what?  They're the owners and they get to do what they want.  But look at what they've done.  They've tried experienced coaches, the new up and comers, recycled ex-Sabres coaches.  They've tried experienced GMs (kept Darcy too long), then up and coming GMs from winning organizations.  Nothing has worked.  They've looked at numerous iterations of what supposedly are successful approaches, and they simply have not worked.  What they should do, and haven't done, is the same thing as they did getting McD and Beane:  listen to experienced voices.  The NFL has the committee that recommends HC candidates with a lot of really good football minds serving on that committee; they put McD on that short list and Terry had the sense to pick him and give him the authority he demanded.  The NHL doesn't have that formal structure as I understand it, but Terry and Kim should get about 5-10 really respected names and ask them to review their organization, and make some recommendations.  Rick Dudley is 20 minutes away; invite him in to consult.   And then listen to them.  I don't think they want the Sabres to be this bad - what owner would want their team to be this horrible knowing what it does to ticket sales , merchandising, etc.?  It lowers your franchise value; no owner wants that.   If they did that, and then decided to say to hell with you, we're doing it our way, I would be right with everyone else here and yell about them destroying a proud franchise.  

 

Last thing.  People talk about them selling the Sabres with the hope of a new owner making a difference.  You always think the grass is greener till you get to the other pasture and find out it isn't.  I don't say this worrying about whether a new owner would move the franchise; any one with an ounce of sense including the NHL front offices and the other owners know that Buffalo is a hotbed for hockey and would not want to ever see the Sabres move.  And Terry loves his hockey so I can't see him ever selling.   But it is time for the Pegulas to get help identifying the right guys to lead them going forward, and if that means swallowing their pride to do so, so be it.  They did so with the Bills, and look how well it's worked.  

 

 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Agree with the premise of the article. 

 

1. The Sabres don't draft well. None of their picks end up being that good - Ristolainen, Mittelstadt, Nylander. How long did we hear about Justin Bailey, Brendan Guhle? Never did anything.  

 

2. The Sabres get themselves into horrible deals - Matt Moulson, Larsson, Okposo, Gionta, Bogosian

 

3. They were like the Bills, they love old minded Coaches and GMs. They love the Phil Housley's and Ralph Krueger's who talk about gritty goals, and checking, and defense. The last GM they had sat there are did nothing for 3 years in Botterill. Their GM before was Tim Murray, at least he tried to bring in SKILL. 

 

We love guys like Cody Eakin now.  

[Nextmanup]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

The Sabres need to find a HC in hockey like they have in McD for the Bills.  They need a guy with  a specific and detailed plan on how to build a consistent winner, and then either make sure he's in sync with Adams or, if not, let the new HC bring in his own GM that he knows he can work with.  Then the new HC and GM need to make it clear what their expectations are, and have the freedom to move guys out that do not want to buy in.  And from looking at this roster that's plenty of players, starting with their captain.  You need guys with grit who are all about hockey; Eichel is not that and you cannot have as your captain a guy who pouts all the time.  Kruger may not have been the greatest HC, but I have watched the Sabres since 1970 (and the Bisons before that), and I have never seen a group of weaker, disinterested players as I do now.  Keep a couple guys like Cozens who haven't been tainted yet, get guys with guts and heart to go with him, and you'll start winning again (oh, and Kevin, a goaile - you haven't had a decent one since Miller)

 

It is fashionable I know to talk about bringing in a President of Hockey, who then picks the HC and GM and such.  I've never been a fan of such moves.  Sometimes it works like with Lou L,  but many times it doesn't and just adds another administrative layer.  People always talk about how the team has been cursed since LaFontaine left  so quickly as proof of ownership dysfunction, but he did the same thing with the Islanders.  Maybe Patty isn't suited for such a role.   Again, I look at the Bills as an example.  A lot of people wanted Polian brought in when they got rid of Ryan and such.  But when you have the right coach and GM in sync, I don't think you need anyone else.

 

As for the owners, guess what?  They're the owners and they get to do what they want.  But look at what they've done.  They've tried experienced coaches, the new up and comers, recycled ex-Sabres coaches.  They've tried experienced GMs (kept Darcy too long), then up and coming GMs from winning organizations.  Nothing has worked.  They've looked at numerous iterations of what supposedly are successful approaches, and they simply have not worked.  What they should do, and haven't done, is the same thing as they did getting McD and Beane:  listen to experienced voices.  The NFL has the committee that recommends HC candidates with a lot of really good football minds serving on that committee; they put McD on that short list and Terry had the sense to pick him and give him the authority he demanded.  The NHL doesn't have that formal structure as I understand it, but Terry and Kim should get about 5-10 really respected names and ask them to review their organization, and make some recommendations.  Rick Dudley is 20 minutes away; invite him in to consult.   And then listen to them.  I don't think they want the Sabres to be this bad - what owner would want their team to be this horrible knowing what it does to ticket sales , merchandising, etc.?  It lowers your franchise value; no owner wants that.   If they did that, and then decided to say to hell with you, we're doing it our way, I would be right with everyone else here and yell about them destroying a proud franchise.  

 

Last thing.  People talk about them selling the Sabres with the hope of a new owner making a difference.  You always think the grass is greener till you get to the other pasture and find out it isn't.  I don't say this worrying about whether a new owner would move the franchise; any one with an ounce of sense including the NHL front offices and the other owners know that Buffalo is a hotbed for hockey and would not want to ever see the Sabres move.  And Terry loves his hockey so I can't see him ever selling.   But it is time for the Pegulas to get help identifying the right guys to lead them going forward, and if that means swallowing their pride to do so, so be it.  They did so with the Bills, and look how well it's worked.  

 

 

 

 

The Sabres have brought in a number of individuals with a creative vision for how it's supposed to work.

The problem is the Pegulas constantly meddle with the process, and then fire the administration long before it has a chance to bring its vision to life.

 

I am not defending *any* of the past administrations here, I didn't like any of them at the time, but if ownership is going to behave in this manner, you will only have a lot more losing for many years to come.

 

The Sabres are now what the Bills were for the last 15 to 20 years of Ralph Wilson's life: a complete mess and it is one that is not going to get cleaned up until: 1) ownership changes or 2) ownership has an epiphany and completely re-invents how it operates.

 

I personally am hoping for Pegula to sell the team and focus on the Bills.

 

It's the easiest path to success.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

The Sabres have brought in a number of individuals with a creative vision for how it's supposed to work.

The problem is the Pegulas constantly meddle with the process, and then fire the administration long before it has a chance to bring its vision to life.

 

I am not defending *any* of the past administrations here, I didn't like any of them at the time, but if ownership is going to behave in this manner, you will only have a lot more losing for many years to come.

 

The Sabres are now what the Bills were for the last 15 to 20 years of Ralph Wilson's life: a complete mess and it is one that is not going to get cleaned up until: 1) ownership changes or 2) ownership has an epiphany and completely re-invents how it operates.

 

I personally am hoping for Pegula to sell the team and focus on the Bills.

 

It's the easiest path to success.

 

 

I would say they need to adopt the same strategy with the Sabres that they've used with the Bills.