Brennan Huff Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 If this deal doesn’t get done today then I’m completely done with this team 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan Huff Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, John from Riverside said: The fact is....we dont need him. It would be nice to have him. Frankly he should be wanting US as we were one game away from the Super Bowl last year with a realistic shot to get back. Our product sells itself...this is not the old bills The fact is....we need a pass rush This isn’t about selling the product. This is about getting pressure on Patrick Mahomes in the AFC Championship game next year. No we don’t necessarily need JJ Watt, but we do need to address that particular position. Edit: I just realized that you meant selling us to JJ. Yes I do agree that we should look like a prime destination for him. We check all the boxes Edited February 17, 2021 by Brennan Huff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveorhatembillsfan4life Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) So his goal is to win a Super Bowl. You would think at first he looks at the Four teams who made the Conference Championship. What’s their interest? Am I the missing piece that maybe just gets them to that next level? Good culture, fan base well knockout Kc. So the other three teams check the box. Tampa has already shown they can win a SuperBowl without me. Out. GB , Buffalo, awesome fan base culture, ohh so close. Can they pay me with the cap being what it is or want to Pay me what I think I’m worth No Oh well all that other crap doesn’t even really matter. Cleveland it is! Edited February 17, 2021 by loveorhatembillsfan4life 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, it is a report from a Browns beat reporter, Mary Kay Cabot If Watt ends up signing with Cleveland, this should be her new profile pic... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsDude Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 If JJ is now set on Cleveland, he clearly had changed his requirements: (1) The team must be not-so-loveable losers, a powder keg ready to explode at any minute, as this fuels the beast (2) The team needs to be dressed ugly like barking canines, as I need my beautiful muscles and vicious tough guy persona to stand out (3) The team needs to be seen as a 2nd or 3rd tier team at best, as I dream of being the herculean star that could bring all the glory. (4) The team needs to be OK with mediocrity, as if my body falls apart again, I can escape the city untouched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, BillsDude said: If JJ is now set on Cleveland, he clearly had changed his requirements: (1) The team must be not-so-loveable losers, a powder keg ready to explode at any minute, as this fuels the beast (2) The team needs to be dressed ugly like barking canines, as I need my beautiful muscles and vicious tough guy persona to stand out (3) The team needs to be seen as a 2nd or 3rd tier team at best, as I dream of being the herculean star that could bring all the glory. (4) The team needs to be OK with mediocrity, as if my body falls apart again, I can escape the city untouched Has someone said he's set on Cleveland? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 If Watt goes to Cleveland and not us I need a package of razor blades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsDude Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: Has someone said he's set on Cleveland? The implication from all the reports is he is seriously considering Cleveland. Whether that is fake news, wishful thinking on part of that team or media there, or other, who knows. Why would he not dispute those reports though, or at least say he is considering several teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, BillsDude said: The implication from all the reports is he is seriously considering Cleveland. Whether that is fake news, wishful thinking on part of that team or media there, or other, who knows. Why would he not dispute those reports though, or at least say he is considering several teams. Why WOULD he dispute those rumors? The more he says, the more he drives down his price. Plus, why does he need to come out publicly and say anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsDude Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said: Why WOULD he dispute those rumors? The more he says, the more he drives down his price. Plus, why does he need to come out publicly and say anything? Well, he already drove down his price then, as he ruled out the vast majority of teams with his 4 media listed requirements. And he pissed off the other interested teams when he did not shoot down the Browns story. I mean, JJ Watt is good, but his injury history and some decline is not about to cause those other interested teams to resort to game playing and bidding wars. Bu keeping his mouth shut about the Browns story (did not help), and if he instead said his mind was not made up, he would get more interest, in my opinion.. Edited February 17, 2021 by BillsDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2021/02/nfl-free-agency-rumors-what-will-jj-watts-contract-look-like-with-new-team.html Speculation is his contract will be $12M/yr, 2 years: Quote The final number per season on Watt is expected to be around $12 million, according to Spotrac.com’s Mike Ginnetti, who threw out that number on the latest episode of his podcast. Quote Sports Illustrated’s Peter King wrote in his Monday Football Morning In America column that Watt will likely get a two-year deal, depending on the team’s financial situation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, BillsDude said: Well, he already drove down his price then, as he ruled out the vast majority of teams with his 4 media listed requirements. And he pissed off the other interested teams when he did not shoot down the Browns story. I mean, JJ Watt is good, but his injury history and some decline is not about to cause those other interested teams to resort to game playing and bidding wars. Bu keeping his mouth shut about the Browns story (did not help), and if he instead said his mind was not made up, he would get more interest, in my opinion.. You’re thinking about this as a fan, not a team or player. They all know how this game works-players or teams never shoot down these types of rumors because it does them no benefit. Every team in the league already knows he is only looking at a handful of teams. By not shooting down the Cleveland rumor, that could potentially keep teams like Seattle in the mix, or at least give that illusion. Teams don’t get butt hurt because a player doesn’t deny rumors. My guess is you are hoping he shoots down the rumor because then it still keeps the Bills in the running to get him. I want to see him sign in Buffalo as well but from a business standpoint it doesn’t make sense for him to publicly eliminate a potential team. Honestly think about it, do free agents ever deny rumors about where they may potentially sign? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 24 minutes ago, BillsDude said: Well, he already drove down his price then, as he ruled out the vast majority of teams with his 4 media listed requirements. And he pissed off the other interested teams when he did not shoot down the Browns story. I mean, JJ Watt is good, but his injury history and some decline is not about to cause those other interested teams to resort to game playing and bidding wars. Bu keeping his mouth shut about the Browns story (did not help), and if he instead said his mind was not made up, he would get more interest, in my opinion.. This seems to assign an internal team importance to media reports. The Browns story does not say Watt's mind is made up. It just says he is "seriously considering" the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I wonder about the timing of this playing out. Does he sign really fast, or does he let it sit for a while like Clowney? I think he is better off signing quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2021/02/nfl-free-agency-rumors-what-will-jj-watts-contract-look-like-with-new-team.html Speculation is his contract will be $12M/yr, 2 years: Hard to structure that in a way that keeps the 2021 hit low and gives you any sort of out. You pretty much have to do $12m and $12m if he is insisting on two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: I wonder about the timing of this playing out. Does he sign really fast, or does he let it sit for a while like Clowney? I think he is better off signing quickly. That may be why one of his criteria is cap space. Teams like the Bills really can't commit themselves until the NFL gives a reasonably firm decision on the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2021/02/nfl-free-agency-rumors-what-will-jj-watts-contract-look-like-with-new-team.html Speculation is his contract will be $12M/yr, 2 years: That is exactly his worth. I would hope the Bills dont consider anything over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Hard to structure that in a way that keeps the 2021 hit low and gives you any sort of out. You pretty much have to do $12m and $12m if he is insisting on two years. I think it's hard to structure any duration contract for a vet player in a way that keeps the 2021 hit low and give the team an out. They know it's all about the guarantees. The 2021 "low" isn't too hard. Say you give him $10M signing bonus, $2M salary this season which gives him $12M in upfront/salary this year for a $7M cap hit Then you make the next year $12M split between salary or other bonus, which gives him another $12M for a $17M cap hit. But in that case he's gonna want all more most of that 2nd year salary guaranteed, period so no out. 18 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said: I want to see him sign in Buffalo as well but from a business standpoint it doesn’t make sense for him to publicly eliminate a potential team. Honestly think about it, do free agents ever deny rumors about where they may potentially sign? Ha! The only one I can think of is Antonio Brown with the Bills and that was certainly a "special" situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, BillsDude said: The implication from all the reports is he is seriously considering Cleveland. Whether that is fake news, wishful thinking on part of that team or media there, or other, who knows. Why would he not dispute those reports though, or at least say he is considering several teams. That report didn't give any indication he wanted to go there or even if the Browns want him. Anyways why wouldn't he seriously consider them? He's considering a lot of teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think it's hard to structure any duration contract for a vet player in a way that keeps the 2021 hit low and give the team an out. They know it's all about the guarantees. The 2021 "low" isn't too hard. Say you give him $10M signing bonus, $2M salary this season which gives him $12M in upfront/salary this year for a $7M cap hit Then you make the next year $12M split between salary or other bonus, which gives him another $12M for a $17M cap hit. But in that case he's gonna want all more most of that 2nd year salary guaranteed, period so no out. Exactly. That is why I favour a 3rd year on the contract that allows you a bit of extra flex. $24m for 2 years feels to me to be a little high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 37 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: I wonder about the timing of this playing out. Does he sign really fast, or does he let it sit for a while like Clowney? I think he is better off signing quickly. The article Hap linked by Parriro said he would be shocked if Watt hadn't signed by Friday. Here's hoping Beane can get Watt for $12 - $13 mill for two years by Friday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: The article Hap linked by Parriro said he would be shocked if Watt hadn't signed by Friday. Here's hoping Beane can get Watt for $12 - $13 mill for two years by Friday! Parrino? Matt Parrino is the author. Not sure who Parriro is? The person he quoted with that viewpoint is Spotrac's Mike Ginnitti (though he spells his name wrong as Ginnetti). Ginnitti is a UB grad, btw, and obviously has connections where he can get contract details on players, but I don't have any feel for how "plugged in" (or not) Ginnitti may be with agents etc. to get insight in what their thinking is prior to the signing. My feeling is, unless there is clear word from the NFL by Friday on what the cap will be, we are not going to see Beane committing the Bills to a $24M contract by Friday. That may be the point of Watt saying that one of his criteria is to go to a team with cap space: because he wants to get a deal done soon, and he recognizes that a cap-limited team is going to want to get a feel for what cap space they actually have before pulling the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Buffalo wild wings wild or...? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: My feeling is, unless there is clear word from the NFL by Friday on what the cap will be, we are not going to see Beane committing the Bills to a $24M contract by Friday. That may be the point of Watt saying that one of his criteria is to go to a team with cap space: because he wants to get a deal done soon, and he recognizes that a cap-limited team is going to want to get a feel for what cap space they actually have before pulling the trigger. On the other hand, getting Watt at $12 mill/yr looks real good to me in comparison to the dollars quoted in the top 50 discussion of Yannick at $17.5 and Clowney at $13. Yes, it would take some cajones and a GM that is confident in his moves to go after a big prize early. Luckily, seems like we have one, and I think it is a real possibility. The hesitancy of other GMs to make the early move might be helping in getting Watt at a reasonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 The Browns might be close to my #1 most hated team. I can't stand them, and if they had made the Super Bowl I would have actively rooted for Tom Brady and the Bucs to put 50+ on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Hard to structure that in a way that keeps the 2021 hit low and gives you any sort of out. You pretty much have to do $12m and $12m if he is insisting on two years. You can easily spread 24M , to make most of that money hit in 22. Convert about 15M to a roster bonus. Give him a 5M bonus, and a base salary of 2M per year. That's a 4.5M hit in YR1, and a 20M hit in YR2. But this is a dangerous game to play, as your basically banking on the Cap to hugely increase for 2022. If you do that with Watt, you'll have about 70M in cap space tied up between Allen, Watt and Edmunds (who's 5th year would be activated, unless the Bills choose to extend him this offseason/season to lessen that ~10-15M hit). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, appoo said: You can easily spread 24M , to make most of that money hit in 22. Convert about 15M to a roster bonus. Give him a 5M bonus, and a base salary of 2M per year. That's a 4.5M hit in YR1, and a 20M hit in YR2. But this is a dangerous game to play, as your basically banking on the Cap to hugely increase for 2022. If you do that with Watt, you'll have about 70M in cap space tied up between Allen, Watt and Edmunds (who's 5th year would be activated, unless the Bills choose to extend him this offseason/season to lessen that ~10-15M hit). Yea that is what I mean. I don't want to pay him $24m for 2 years and account for it all in the two years. I think that is too inflexible for a team in the Bills' position. My suggestion was If he'd take a deal that was $38m with $23m gua over 3 structured roughly: $15m prorated signing bonus $2m fully guaranteed salary in 2021 $4m fully guaranteed salary in 2022 2021 Cap hit of $7m ($5m prorated bonus + $2m guaranteed salary) 2022 Cap hit of $12m ($5m prorated bonus + $4m guaranteed salary + $3m non-guaranteed salary) 2023 Cap hit of $19m ($5m prorated bonus + $14m non-guaranteed salary) That would mean the Bills still pay him what he is looking for the first 2 years but can get out of the dummy third year for a $5m dead hit which they could even spread over two years. Gives us more flexibility. Remember the cap is not really a spending limit it is an accounting limit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, Warcodered said: 🤔 "I got a Porsche already. I got a 911 with with a quadraphonic Blaupunkt." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, Warcodered said: 🤔 So he is switching to baseball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Think watt played hockey growing up as well. Maybe the sabres sign him instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Dude probably not getting the offers he thought he would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appoo Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Yea that is what I mean. I don't want to pay him $24m for 2 years and account for it all in the two years. I think that is too inflexible for a team in the Bills' position. My suggestion was If he'd take a deal that was $38m with $23m gua over 3 structured roughly: $15m prorated signing bonus $2m fully guaranteed salary in 2021 $4m fully guaranteed salary in 2022 2021 Cap hit of $7m ($5m prorated bonus + $2m guaranteed salary) 2022 Cap hit of $12m ($5m prorated bonus + $4m guaranteed salary + $3m non-guaranteed salary) 2023 Cap hit of $19m ($5m prorated bonus + $14m non-guaranteed salary) That would mean the Bills still pay him what he is looking for the first 2 years but can get out of the dummy third year for a $5m dead hit which they could even spread over two years. Gives us more flexibility. Remember the cap is not really a spending limit it is an accounting limit. you win the SB next season and that doesn't matter though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Any word from those stationed at the airport? Or those tracking the Pegula’s plane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, appoo said: you win the SB next season and that doesn't matter though. While I get that as a line of argument I don't think Beane and McDermott are a push the chips into the middle of the table and go all in for 1 year type of duo. They will take calculated risks but they want to be relevant for a long time. And put me in the school that thinks other than a QB it is rarely one guy that puts a team over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, GunnerBill said: While I get that as a line of argument I don't think Beane and McDermott are a push the chips into the middle of the table and go all in for 1 year type of duo. They will take calculated risks but they want to be relevant for a long time. And put me in the school that thinks other than a QB it is rarely one guy that puts a team over the top. I think they are pretty damn close though. But yeah, I don't think they are the "one big time player" away. I think they will need more, especially on the Defensive side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: While I get that as a line of argument I don't think Beane and McDermott are a push the chips into the middle of the table and go all in for 1 year type of duo. They will take calculated risks but they want to be relevant for a long time. And put me in the school that thinks other than a QB it is rarely one guy that puts a team over the top. I don’t know. Suh, Gronk, and Fournette were all 1 year types that made a huge difference for Tampa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 46 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: Dude probably not getting the offers he thought he would. Guess: getting some hard-to-refuse offers from a couple teams he doesn't want to go to, and not-quite-what-I want offers from some teams he's interested in? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I don’t know. Suh, Gronk, and Fournette were all 1 year types that made a huge difference for Tampa. Yes.... and Antonio Brown.... and Brady... there was 5 of them not 1 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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