Heels20X6 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 38 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Yes, misinformed. Watson was a booster of Saleh. Actually, the Palmer situation is very similar, and it worked out great for Palmer, who had a late career renaissance after escaping from the tire fire that is the Bengals. My money is on Watson never playing a down for Houston again. People don’t realize how much value guys like watson place on winning. It's genuinely silly to think the Texans have ANY leverage over Watson in this scenario. NFL contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Antonio Brown showed that the players have all the leverage. Watson is gone from Houston and don't think Watt isn't too far behind him. I'll bet that Watt goes to Pittsburgh and Watson will surprise people and get himself traded somewhere in the NFC to avoid the young QB dogfight in the AFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, Heels20X6 said: It's genuinely silly to think the Texans have ANY leverage over Watson in this scenario. NFL contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Antonio Brown showed that the players have all the leverage. Watson is gone from Houston and don't think Watt isn't too far behind him. I'll bet that Watt goes to Pittsburgh and Watson will surprise people and get himself traded somewhere in the NFC to avoid the young QB dogfight in the AFC. The Texans have all the leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: The Texans have all the leverage. Just like the Pittsburgh Steelers did with Bell and Brown. And then the Raiders did with Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Heels20X6 said: Just like the Pittsburgh Steelers did with Bell and Brown. And then the Raiders did with Brown. They have nothing to do with Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, Doc said: They have nothing to do with Watson. What leverage does Houston have? Apart from the contract (of which Deshaun has a no-trade clause attached to)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, Heels20X6 said: What leverage does Houston have? Apart from the contract (of which Deshaun has a no-trade clause attached to)? The better question is: "what leverage does Watson have?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bferra13 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Heels20X6 said: What leverage does Houston have? Apart from the contract (of which Deshaun has a no-trade clause attached to)? Well there gonna suck either way. Let him holdout and piss away a year of his prime. Edited January 29, 2021 by Bferra13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 hours ago, dave mcbride said: It was a package deal. They blamed Peters for being overweight, they blamed him for JP getting sacked vs the Jets, they blamed him for holding out, they blamed him for not liking the fact that the Bills gave him a RT contract and then immediately moving him to LT, etc. etc. I lived through it. Calling @PromoTheRobot... You rang? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: Well there gonna suck either way. Let him holdout and piss away a year of his prime. Yup. All Watson can do is sit out and incur massive fines and likely a loss of part or all of his signing bonus. Meanwhile the team, as you said, will still suck without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 13 minutes ago, Doc said: Yup. All Watson can do is sit out and incur massive fines and likely a loss of part or all of his signing bonus. Meanwhile the team, as you said, will still suck without him. Your mistake is thinking that having Watson create a negative environment is not going to be a problem for the Texans. It will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bferra13 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Your mistake is thinking that having Watson create a negative environment is not going to be a problem for the Texans. It will. Maybe they want that though? Tank season baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Bferra13 said: Maybe they want that though? Tank season baby. This goes beyond a single season. This could have a decade long impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: Actually, the Palmer situation is very similar, and it worked out great for Palmer, who had a late career renaissance after escaping from the tire fire that is the Bengals. My money is on Watson never playing a down for Houston again. People don’t realize how much value guys like watson place on winning. Different for a few reasons. Palmer had totaled around $80 million in career salary already when he decided to not report to the Bengals. Watson has only totaled half of that, $40 million. Watson is viewed as a top 5 QB in the league even higher among some. I'm not sure Palmer was even viewed as a top 10 QB. Maybe fringe top 10. Difference between 5 and 10 may not seem like a lot but in terms of a QB it's pretty significant. Much harder pill to swallow for the Texans to cave and trade a top 5 talent at the QB position. Looking at Watson's salary, if he sits out this entire year he actually doesn't loose that much, only $10 million. So it actually could be great timing for Watson to sit out a year to prove to the Texans that he is serious. But 2022 he's due $35 million. That's nearly half of what he's made his entire career thus far. That would be a hard season to sit out. But by that point the Texans may cave and trade him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bferra13 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, FireChans said: This goes beyond a single season. This could have a decade long impact. True its a gamble. But stink it up in 21 and get a top 3 draft pick for nothing then trade watson next year for a huge bounty and start again. I mean look who they hired as their coach. Sounds better to me than getting tua and going 7 and 9. Edited January 29, 2021 by Bferra13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 12 hours ago, dneveu said: I mean, that could be a negotiation with him. He has a no trade clause, but i might say - we'll do what we can to move you. Whats the NFC list look like? Well, I have to say. That takes some serious stones to request a trade when you have a no trade clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 30 minutes ago, Heels20X6 said: Just like the Pittsburgh Steelers did with Bell and Brown. And then the Raiders did with Brown. Steelers told Bell to go pound sand. He ended up leaving as a free agent. They didn't trade him. They held their leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 If he goes to Miami for mostly draft capital they will be in serious contention. The Jets will be better off long term but will be a year away although more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: True its a gamble. But stink it up in 21 and get a top 3 draft pick for nothing then trade watson next year for a huge bounty and start again. I mean look who they hired as their coach. Sounds better to me than getting tua and going 7 and 9. It's a good point, that they will always be able to trade Watson for likely two first round picks next off-season even if he sits out the entire year. So with that being the case, try to call his bluff and hope he reports to camp and cooler heads prevail. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Watson sitting out a full season could jeopardize the locker room moving forward and free agents that look at Houston as a destination. But then again, trading Watson pretty much jeopardizes your long-term future anyway if you don't find a franchise QB to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 51 minutes ago, FireChans said: Your mistake is thinking that having Watson create a negative environment is not going to be a problem for the Texans. It will. Your mistake is thinking that caving to a star's demands just a few months after he signs a huge extension won't create a problem for them. It will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 13 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Houston's dysfunctional ownership continues to screw up the league, and it disproportionately affects Buffalo. To recap: 1) Trades 2 #1st to Miami for Tunsil, giving the Dolphins a top-five pick; Tunsil wasn't extended in advance, giving players in a similar position additional negotiating leverage. 2) Trades Hopkins for peanuts; Hopkins single-handedly beats Buffalo in 2020 3) Hires David Culley instead of Leslie Frazier, giving extra draft capital to the best GM in football 4) Likely trades a top-five QB in his prime to the AFC East Thanks for ruining my night. 🤪. You’re right though. Houston is the gift that keeps giving. I know I was steadfast he’s not getting traded, but maybe. He’d have to go nuclear, and the coach and GM are going to get torched by the owner for not salvaging the situation. The football gods are against us. If I’m him (and I’m not), if the Fins make the right offer, that’s the place Watson would approve. The agent telling him, they turned around their team to 10-6 from 5-11, lots of young talent from last years draft and FA bonanza last year. Another 10 picks this year and they still have $26 mil. In cap space, why wouldn’t he want that destination? They have the $ to deal with his contract. The other would be SF. They have $12.5 mil. In space and just went to the SB last year. When their guys get healthy, it makes complete sense. I can’t see him approving a Jets trade. They have everything you want to make the deal, but that team is a hot mess. That actually would be best for us as even Watson can’t fix that team. So go J-E-T-S, Jets, Jets, Jets. Miami is a real threat. SF not so much so that would be second for me from a Bills perspective. We won’t see them for four years unless we both make the SB. Please not Miami as I still hate those guys from the 70’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Doc said: Yup. All Watson can do is sit out and incur massive fines and likely a loss of part or all of his signing bonus. Meanwhile the team, as you said, will still suck without him. Watson has a ton of leverage. He’s the only valuable asset the franchise has. He’s the unquestioned leader of the team and the face of the franchise. He’s also has built up a ton of goodwill by being a great player from day one, and a model citizen off the field. I don’t know for sure, but I would be willing to bet he’s very popular in the locker room. A franchise that has done everything wrong lately simply can’t afford to have a disgruntled leader like Watson. The only way out for them is to get as much as they can for him and hope the can land another QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyBillsFan Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Can we just change the thread title to "Houston - you suck!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negan Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I'd let him rot on the bench and not trade him, too bad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyBillsFan Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: We've had the conversation about total QBR on this site before. Bottom line up front: treat it with skepticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_quarterback_rating For myself, I continue to be skeptical of proprietary statistics that require 10,000 lines of code and produce results such as the above Ergo, given its from ESPN, QBR is quite bloody ratshit. Edited January 29, 2021 by SydneyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Doc said: The better question is: "what leverage does Watson have?" AJ "I lost a starting job to Nate Peterman" McCarron is their backup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: AJ "I lost a starting job to Nate Peterman" McCarron is their backup And a high pick in the first round might solve the QB problem. Also note that there are about 5 first round QB's going to be taken. That means 5 veteran NFL QB's and maybe some aging starts might be lined up at the soup kitchen and wanting a job, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 20 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: If I'm the Texans I would honestly hold on to him and play that game for a season. Get a bunch of cash paid back. Trade him next offseason. You lose a ton of value at that point if you are the Texans. Watson is coming off a season where he led the league in passing yards and had a top 5 QB rating of ALL TIME You think after Watson sits a year and proves he is never coming back teams will offer more? They know you have to dump him and the offers will get lower. Trade him before FA and cut your losses 20 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Depends how many bidders. The price might start lower.... but ultimately at the end the last two teams are bidding against each other not bidding against Houston's desire or ability to keep him. He is going to fetch 3 first round picks IMO. Jamal Adams fetched two. The difference between a top 5 safety and a top 5 Quarterback is huge. The difference between Adams and a top 5 safety is also huge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Does anyone still believe he wasn't using the "no promised phone call" before the GM pick as a front to get off the team? Does anyone believe that if they had picked Bienemy as HC, he would stay? It was all a con. He just wanted to be on a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeBreton Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just thinking about how big an advantage for us (and lucky we are) to just draft Josh Allen in the first round, only had to give up two second rounders to get him. It will be great for whoever acquires Watson but they are going to have to give up an absolute boatload of assets too. *end Captain Obvious post* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Does anyone still believe he wasn't using the "no promised phone call" before the GM pick as a front to get off the team? Does anyone believe that if they had picked Bienemy as HC, he would stay? It was all a con. He just wanted to be on a better team. I think the trust has completely broken down. No I don't believe he'd have stayed if they hired Bienemy. I think the only move that might have had influence on him is Cal McNair firing Jack Easterby. And that ain't happening, because, you know..... Jesus and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think the trust has completely broken down. No I don't believe he'd have stayed if they hired Bienemy. I think the only move that might have had influence on him is Cal McNair firing Jack Easterby. And that ain't happening, because, you know..... Jesus and stuff. Would Jesus have traded 2 first round picks for Laremy Tunsil? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think the trust has completely broken down. No I don't believe he'd have stayed if they hired Bienemy. I think the only move that might have had influence on him is Cal McNair firing Jack Easterby. And that ain't happening, because, you know..... Jesus and stuff. I'm not convinced any of that would have made a difference, so it was not about "trust". He wanted out and put up this front about not being consulted and African American candidates etc. He took a look around at that roster and realized that the tears of joy he shed (over now getting paid handsomely to play with that same roster) at the beginning of the season had long dried up. Sure Easterby is a nutjob (Casserio will push him back into the back office), but Watson had made up his mind long before that promised phone call never came. Edited January 29, 2021 by Mr. WEO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I wouldn’t trade him if I were Houston. He is BY FAR their most important player AINEC. He seems to be upset because he wasn’t included in the GM hire. But What QB ever is? Im not aware of any NFL teams that consult their players on GM hires. Now, if Cal McNair offered to let Watson have say then went back on his word, he deserves blame. But I still think Watson is being a bit unreasonable here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 7 hours ago, mannc said: Watson has a ton of leverage. He’s the only valuable asset the franchise has. He’s the unquestioned leader of the team and the face of the franchise. He’s also has built up a ton of goodwill by being a great player from day one, and a model citizen off the field. I don’t know for sure, but I would be willing to bet he’s very popular in the locker room. A franchise that has done everything wrong lately simply can’t afford to have a disgruntled leader like Watson. The only way out for them is to get as much as they can for him and hope the can land another QB. He has no leverage. After formally requesting a trade, he's not a leader in the locker room, fan favorite or face of the franchise. His only option now is to sit out because if he plays and doesn't give maximal effort, his teammates will let him know. 1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said: AJ "I lost a starting job to Nate Peterman" McCarron is their backup True. They might win just 2 games next year instead of 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 44 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I wouldn’t trade him if I were Houston. He is BY FAR their most important player AINEC. He seems to be upset because he wasn’t included in the GM hire. But What QB ever is? Im not aware of any NFL teams that consult their players on GM hires. Now, if Cal McNair offered to let Watson have say then went back on his word, he deserves blame. But I still think Watson is being a bit unreasonable here. That is EXACTLY what happened tho. McNair created this mess himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That is EXACTLY what happened tho. McNair created this mess himself. I’d be more sympathetic to Watson if he was halfway through his deal and the Texans fell apart after he signed it, but he signed it last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: That is EXACTLY what happened tho. McNair created this mess himself. Time to sell the team if you forced yourself into trading a 25 year old franchise QB. Short of trading for Mahomes, Allen, or Herbert there’s no face-saving trade you can make here. You either gotta reconcile or make him sit. If Watson hates the place so much, why did he sign on a long term extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 11 minutes ago, Doc said: He has no leverage. After formally requesting a trade, he's not a leader in the locker room, fan favorite or face of the franchise. His only option now is to sit out because if he plays and doesn't give maximal effort, his teammates will let him know. Well, I guess we’ll see, won’t we? If Watson. gets traded, will you admit that he had leverage? And why are you backing Texans’ management, anyway? They have burned that franchise to the ground and appear to be terrible people, to boot. Deshaun Watson is one of the bright young stars of the sport who by all accounts is a great guy. So why the hate? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, mannc said: Well, I guess we’ll see, won’t we? If Watson. gets traded, will you admit that he had leverage? And why are you backing Texans’ management, anyway? They have burned that franchise to the ground and appear to be terrible people, to boot. Deshaun Watson is one of the bright young stars of the sport who by all accounts is a great guy. So why the hate? Depends on the parameters of the trade. If he has to repay the signing bonus and doesn't get to pick where he goes... And I wouldn't call it hate. I just think he's being childish and using any excuse he can find because the team had a losing season and they used a lot of resources in trying to get and help him. Again all of this was known back in September when he accepted the huge new deal, and he went onto have a career year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 17 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: Did they hate Peters? Or did they hate Eugene Parker? I will not confirm or deny I had a voodoo doll of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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