Should we give the Bills a pass vs. LAC???

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You know, I think it's a mistake to second-guess the instincts of a professional football player too deeply from afar.

 

At the point where Josh picked the ball up, looks to me as though Linval Joseph is diving for it with Morse on top of him.  Josh doesn't pick it up, good chance Joseph gets it and Josh has 635 lbs of human smacking him in the head.  I think his instinct to pick up the ball there is correct.

 

 

The problem is then Josh drops it as he's trying to tuck it away.  After he picked it up out of there he should probably have thrown himself down with the ball and curled up around it.  But hard to say.

 

Critiquing Josh's fumble handling is more or less "lipstick on a pig" anyway.  The root problem is that the snap was botched.   It goes down as a fumble on Josh but I'm pretty sure it was snapped below his lower hand.   Morse said in his presser it was on him.

 

 

Yep. Bad snap then as you say not a given that falling on it right away was possible. And even if Josh was trying to force a play when nothing was there he does that plenty when it works for us. I had little issue with that fumble. A bit more with the pick that was just a bad decision even though his hand did get hit as he threw it. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

We're not beating KC playing like this

 

Okay but if KC is the standard then no team in the league is playing good enough. Right now it's the Chiefs and then everyone else. We're somewhere in that 2nd tier. If people aren't going to be happy until we're playing like the far and away best team in the league then they'll never be satisfied.

 

I don't see any other team that I would say is definitively better than us. I get why people would say the Titans but we just played our worst game against them, and they've been hot and cold in recent weeks. The Steelers I wouldn't say are proven to be better than us. They get the edge because of their record but I like our odds in that game. I don't think any other team is even in the conversation.

 

So all the complaints about how we're winning would apply to any team that isn't the Chiefs. What is there to be upset about?

[Jay_Fixit]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I am usually tough on the Bills and after yesterday's game, came away not very happy.  Mostly it is always about the offense & yesterday they were out of sync & Bosa just killed them.  Disjointed and just not a great game to watch.  

 

Concerned that they seem flat of late (outside of Seattle game).

 

As for the running game, really it only came to life late in the game, and while stats look good, it put them in a hole early in the game.  

 

Again want to see a really dominant game (heck look at Atl yesterday).

 

But this week I'll give them a pass.  However no excuse vs. SF 49'ers & looking ahead to the Steelers, or similar excuses. 

Bills win.

 

This dude came away not very happy.

 

What a world we live in.

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Okay but if KC is the standard then no team in the league is playing good enough. Right now it's the Chiefs and then everyone else. We're somewhere in that 2nd tier. If people aren't going to be happy until we're playing like the far and away best team in the league then they'll never be satisfied.

 

I don't see any other team that I would say is definitively better than us. I get why people would say the Titans but we just played our worst game against them, and they've been hot and cold in recent weeks. The Steelers I wouldn't say are proven to be better than us. They get the edge because of their record but I like our odds in that game. I don't think any other team is even in the conversation.

 

So all the complaints about how we're winning would apply to any team that isn't the Chiefs. What is there to be upset about?

 

Do you feel confident in winning a playoff game if we continue to have quarter long Offensive droughts every game?  I don't...  And I certainly don't feel good about our chances against the Chiefs if we only play 3 quarters on Offense.  

 

The Chargers game was just another game, in a long line of games this year, where this happened.

 

It's not a talent issue.  It's fixable.  

 

I'm not being negative..  Our Defense looks great lately.  The D rounding into shape certainly gives our Offense a lot more room for error, but it's frustrating to see the same issue that doomed us in the Houston Wild Card, continue to be present all freakin year so far....  

 

We have the talent to beat anyone, but we need to find some consistency before the Playoffs start.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by SCBills

[ngbills]

Ugly win. It happens. Better than an ugly loss. The concerning parts if you want to dig into it...

 

We had two weeks to prepare and came out flat and game plan did not seem great. How the heck do you keep running plays right at Bosa?

Hail Mary's - This team has given up 3 straight hail mary's. One was a push off that was negated but they still are looking to catch the ball instead of knocking it down. 

Sloppy play, penalties.

Allen has thrown for ~150yds or less in 3 of 6 games. 4 ints in last 4. 

Still have not won a game by >10.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Bad snap then as you say not a given that falling on it right away was possible. And even if Josh was trying to force a play when nothing was there he does that plenty when it works for us. I had little issue with that fumble. A bit more with the pick that was just a bad decision even though his hand did get hit as he threw it. 

 

I'm not sure yet it was a bad decision.  I need to at least see the all-22.  I think by Allen-to-Diggs standards, that was probably open.

 

There was a blitz, but it was clearly NOT an occasion where Josh was responsible for the blitzer and should have immediately checked down to Bease.  Bosa is off the field.  The Bills had Motor and Knox in to block, and Williams is available.  Otherwise it's a 4 man rush so "Hat on a Hat".  Allen fully expects that Motor and Williams will account for CB Chris Harris and he should have time to make a play downfield.

 

 

Williams gets his ass beat, just as Motor and Knox are "OK we're good" and leak out to serve as outlet receivers, but they aren't there yet

 

I need to see what was going on downfield at the point where Allen threw.  The one thing I will say is that he appears to be staring Diggs down.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not sure yet it was a bad decision.  I need to at least see the all-22.  I think by Allen-to-Diggs standards, that was probably open.

 

There was a blitz, but it was clearly NOT an occasion where Josh was responsible for the blitzer and should have immediately checked down to Bease.  Bosa is off the field.  The Bills had Motor and Knox in to block, and Williams is available.  Otherwise it's a 4 man rush so "Hat on a Hat".  Allen fully expects that Motor and Williams will account for CB Chris Harris and he should have time to make a play downfield.

 

 

Williams gets his ass beat, just as Motor and Knox are "OK we're good" and leak out to serve as outlet receivers, but they aren't there yet

 

I need to see what was going on downfield at the point where Allen threw.

 

 

 

 

It was the fact he let it go toppling backwards into double coverage. Fair enough if that is 4th down and we are down by 7 and have to have it..... but it was 2nd down and we were up by 7.... he should have thrown that away and lived to play another down IMO. 

[ngbills]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Okay but if KC is the standard then no team in the league is playing good enough. Right now it's the Chiefs and then everyone else. We're somewhere in that 2nd tier. If people aren't going to be happy until we're playing like the far and away best team in the league then they'll never be satisfied.

 

I don't see any other team that I would say is definitively better than us. I get why people would say the Titans but we just played our worst game against them, and they've been hot and cold in recent weeks. The Steelers I wouldn't say are proven to be better than us. They get the edge because of their record but I like our odds in that game. I don't think any other team is even in the conversation.

 

So all the complaints about how we're winning would apply to any team that isn't the Chiefs. What is there to be upset about?

Steelers are 10-0 and outscoring opponents by 124 points...

We are 1-2 vs current AFC playoff teams.

PIT is 2-0, KC is 1-0, TEN is 2-2, CLE is 1-1, MIA is 0-1, IND is 1-2

[JDHillFan]

OP and other “realists” in this thread should find comfort in today’s Buffalo Beat podcast. Buscaglia and Fairburn spend the first 25 minutes expressing their dissatisfaction with the 10 point victory. Enjoy!

[Pokebball]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You know, I think it's a mistake to second-guess the instincts of a professional football player too deeply from afar.

 

At the point where Josh picked the ball up, looks to me as though Linval Joseph is diving for it with Morse on top of him.  Josh doesn't pick it up, good chance Joseph gets it and Josh has 635 lbs of human smacking him in the head.  I think his instinct to pick up the ball there is correct.

 

 

The problem is then Josh drops it as he's trying to tuck it away.  After he picked it up out of there he should probably have thrown himself down with the ball and curled up around it.  But hard to say.

 

Critiquing Josh's fumble handling is more or less "lipstick on a pig" anyway.  The root problem is that the snap was botched.   It goes down as a fumble on Josh but I'm pretty sure it was snapped below his lower hand.   Morse said in his presser it was on him.

 

Which team is controlling the line of scrimmage do you think?

[HappyDays]

51 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Do you feel confident in winning a playoff game if we continue to have quarter long Offensive droughts every game?  I don't...

 

What I'm saying is every team in the league other than the Chiefs is consistently having that same problem, and even they haven't been perfect in that area. As fans we have a very narrow view of the team we follow but it isn't unusual for teams to have portions of games where they falter. What is unusual is we literally never blow teams out and that might be a function of how McDermott coaches, but the positive side of that is we win most of the close games that we're in. And to me that's more important to being successful in the playoffs than being able to blow out bad teams.

[HappyDays]

22 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Steelers are 10-0 and outscoring opponents by 124 points...

We are 1-2 vs current AFC playoff teams.

PIT is 2-0, KC is 1-0, TEN is 2-2, CLE is 1-1, MIA is 0-1, IND is 1-2

 

How bizarre that you would only include AFC playoff teams. If you extend that to all playoff teams we are 3-2. Were the Rams and Seahawks wins not impressive enough for you?

 

I'm not trying to knock Pittsburgh too much, you can only play the teams on your schedule, but they have had an easy go of it this year:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2020.htm

 

A 3 game win streak against the Browns, Ravens, and Titans is pretty impressive but outside of that they haven't played anyone that is competitive this year. It's very similar to our schedule last year. Right now on a neutral field they would definitely be favored but it's a close matchup. Luckily we get a chance to show we can beat them in a couple weeks.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was the fact he let it go toppling backwards into double coverage. Fair enough if that is 4th down and we are down by 7 and have to have it..... but it was 2nd down and we were up by 7.... he should have thrown that away and lived to play another down IMO. 

 

I don't believe he was "toppling backwards".  I think Harris hit his arm as he threw.  He might have been hindered in his ability to step through by the guy who just beat Morse being in his face.  I'd need to see an angle other than the broadcast film to be sure. 

 

Was there an element of "hero ball" in there? Probably. 
 

Edit: here's the little animation they put up in Gamepass, paused just before the ball is released

 

Question for people who know more than I about route design: is Knox where he should be?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't believe he was "toppling backwards".  I think Harris hit his arm as he threw.  He might have been hindered in his ability to step through by the guy who just beat Morse being in his face.  I'd need to see an angle other than the broadcast film to be sure. 

 

Was there an element of "hero ball" in there? Probably. 
 

Edit: here's the little animation they put up in Gamepass, paused just before the ball is released

 

Question for people who know more than I about route design: is Knox where he should be?

 

 

 

Josh was toppling backwards as he threw for sure. I just thought it was a poor decision. Not an end of the world mistake but a poor decision all the same. 

[CLTbills]

5 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

I think the INT was diagnosed well - his arm was hit as he threw and it was well short of where it needed to be. That type of flag route should be open against cover 2.

Under pressure like that, he needed to throw it into the stands. I don't think it was a "diagnosing" issue, it was just a plain bad decision to not throw that one off the Jim Kelly Club glass.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Josh was toppling backwards as he threw for sure. I just thought it was a poor decision. Not an end of the world mistake but a poor decision all the same. 

 

I can't see it on the broadcast film after watching several times, in slomo etc - and his body is screened on the broadcast angle by Harris and Williams - but you can, "for sure".

 

OK

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I can't see it on the broadcast film after watching several times, in slomo etc - and his body is screened on the broadcast angle by Harris and Williams - but you can, "for sure".

 

OK

 

So how would you describe the position he threw from? He was definitely on his backfoot and his body seems to be clearly leaning back to me? 

[SCBills]

I don't have a huge issue with Allen's interception.  Those happen.  It was just amplified because it came in the middle of an Offensive mini-meltdown, in a game where he only threw the ball 24 times for 157. 

[Hebert19]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I am usually tough on the Bills and after yesterday's game, came away not very happy.  Mostly it is always about the offense & yesterday they were out of sync & Bosa just killed them.  Disjointed and just not a great game to watch.  

 

Concerned that they seem flat of late (outside of Seattle game).

 

As for the running game, really it only came to life late in the game, and while stats look good, it put them in a hole early in the game.  

 

Again want to see a really dominant game (heck look at Atl yesterday).

 

But this week I'll give them a pass.  However no excuse vs. SF 49'ers & looking ahead to the Steelers, or similar excuses. 

Answer.  Yes.  We won. 

[JerseyBills]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I am usually tough on the Bills and after yesterday's game, came away not very happy.  Mostly it is always about the offense & yesterday they were out of sync & Bosa just killed them.  Disjointed and just not a great game to watch.  

 

Concerned that they seem flat of late (outside of Seattle game).

 

As for the running game, really it only came to life late in the game, and while stats look good, it put them in a hole early in the game.  

 

Again want to see a really dominant game (heck look at Atl yesterday).

 

But this week I'll give them a pass.  However no excuse vs. SF 49'ers & looking ahead to the Steelers, or similar excuses. 

It's the NFL man. IT'S HARD TO WIN IN THIS LEAGUE.  

Sometimes I feel like fan expectations are just unrealistic.  

This Charger team is very good , at least for a 3-8 team. I just made a post about how we were the only team to win by double digits vs them, just to prove that they've played literally every team tough. 

Enjoy this . 8-3. 1st place in division.

[Chandler#81]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

A pass? We won

Shhh. He’s on a roll!

4 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Some people just don't it...

😳🤔🤦‍♂️

[ngbills]

29 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

How bizarre that you would only include AFC playoff teams. If you extend that to all playoff teams we are 3-2. Were the Rams and Seahawks wins not impressive enough for you?

 

I'm not trying to knock Pittsburgh too much, you can only play the teams on your schedule, but they have had an easy go of it this year:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2020.htm

 

A 3 game win streak against the Browns, Ravens, and Titans is pretty impressive but outside of that they haven't played anyone that is competitive this year. It's very similar to our schedule last year. Right now on a neutral field they would definitely be favored but it's a close matchup. Luckily we get a chance to show we can beat them in a couple weeks.

Well comparing only AFC teams keeps the teams more consistent in common opponents. But expanding to NFC:

 

PIT 3-0, KC is 2-0, TEN is 2-2, BUF is 3-3, CLE is 1-1, MIA is 2-2, IND is 2-2

[FLFan]

6 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I am usually tough on the Bills and after yesterday's game, came away not very happy.  Mostly it is always about the offense & yesterday they were out of sync & Bosa just killed them.  Disjointed and just not a great game to watch.  

 

Concerned that they seem flat of late (outside of Seattle game).

 

As for the running game, really it only came to life late in the game, and while stats look good, it put them in a hole early in the game.  

 

Again want to see a really dominant game (heck look at Atl yesterday).

 

But this week I'll give them a pass.  However no excuse vs. SF 49'ers & looking ahead to the Steelers, or similar excuses. 

You are giving them a pass for a win.  How magnanimous of you.  Have you ever watched a football game before?  You certainly do not demonstrate any understanding of the game.  Go trolling somewhere else.

Edited November 30, 2020 by FLFan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So how would you describe the position he threw from? He was definitely on his backfoot and his body seems to be clearly leaning back to me? 

 

Well, I've said before, I need to see the all-22 with its different angles. 

I did find this one, which lacks perspective that Jones is still a couple steps away, but Allen looks pretty upright to me

Harris's fingers hitting his arm show clearly in the next frame.  Allen has time to complete a follow through and bring his arm fully forward before he's hit.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, I've said before, I need to see the all-22 with its different angles. 

I did find this one, which lacks perspective that Jones is still a couple steps away, but Allen looks pretty upright to me

Harris's fingers hitting his arm show clearly in the next frame.  Allen has time to complete a follow through and bring his arm fully forward before he's hit.

 

 

 

The broadcast angle to me looks like he is clearly leaning back. If you watch it and don't think that fair enough but it seems pretty clear to me. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Ugly win. It happens. Better than an ugly loss. The concerning parts if you want to dig into it...

 

We had two weeks to prepare and came out flat and game plan did not seem great. How the heck do you keep running plays right at Bosa?

Hail Mary's - This team has given up 3 straight hail mary's. One was a push off that was negated but they still are looking to catch the ball instead of knocking it down. 

Sloppy play, penalties.

Allen has thrown for ~150yds or less in 3 of 6 games. 4 ints in last 4. 

Still have not won a game by >10.

Negativity or pointing out issues is not allowed after a W.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Negativity or pointing out issues is not allowed after a W.

 

It gets annoying when the negativity is so often from one poster.

[Billsfan1972]

8 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I am usually tough on the Bills and after yesterday's game, came away not very happy.  Mostly it is always about the offense & yesterday they were out of sync & Bosa just killed them.  Disjointed and just not a great game to watch.  

 

Concerned that they seem flat of late (outside of Seattle game).

 

As for the running game, really it only came to life late in the game, and while stats look good, it put them in a hole early in the game.  

 

Again want to see a really dominant game (heck look at Atl yesterday).

 

But this week I'll give them a pass.  However no excuse vs. SF 49'ers & looking ahead to the Steelers, or similar excuses. 

Again for those upset read the text.....  I said I'm usually tough & came away not happy....  Was anyone happy about the Offense yesterday?

 

Running game only looks okay due to the 4th quarter, but was not so good for the most part.  

 

Again I keep asking for a true dominant 4 quarter game and LAC is 3-8, and we didn't blow out 0-11 NYJ either game.  Oh and 4 games have come down to the last possession. 

 

And again as per the title, giving them a pass was tongue in cheek saying that while not happy, not getting upset about it all as they won and that in the end is what mattered.

 

JMHO.... 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't believe he was "toppling backwards".  I think Harris hit his arm as he threw.  He might have been hindered in his ability to step through by the guy who just beat Morse being in his face.  I'd need to see an angle other than the broadcast film to be sure. 

 

Was there an element of "hero ball" in there? Probably. 
 

His arm got hit. It was a tight window but he can make that throw going sideways, backwards, doesn't matter. That's a play where because it's Josh Allen throwing the football, it's reckless. 

 

If that's Mahomes, it's because his arm got hit.

[Mark Vader]

7 hours ago, wjag said:

Green shoots...  They actually scored a TD in the 3rd quarter..

Not only that, they scored more in the 3rd quarter than they did in the 4th quarter.

[BananaB]

Looks like his arm was hit. In a front line picture it’s hard to tell if he is leaning back. Definitely doesn’t look like had time to step into that pass.  
 

To be honest it doesn’t matter, it was intercepted so it is obviously a bad pass. ***** happens, teams make mistakes and teams make plays. To many people on this board critique our QBs way too much and have for years. Let’s face it, we have seen some of the shittiest  QB play in the league overbthe past 25 years. We got a guy who wants to win, he makes a lot of plays on the field and he is starting to limit his mistakes, be ***** happy. Stop nitpicking, we are 8-3 and have the lead in our division. Onto the 49ers

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, I've said before, I need to see the all-22 with its different angles. 

I did find this one, which lacks perspective that Jones is still a couple steps away, but Allen looks pretty upright to me

Harris's fingers hitting his arm show clearly in the next frame.  Allen has time to complete a follow through and bring his arm fully forward before he's hit.

 

 

 

Nice Shot, I will not comment on whether he is falling back or not, but that shot is great if you look at his left arm - when he is comfortable that arm is tight and his left hand is up under his chin strap.

 

Whether he is falling back or not able to step up - it looks like his base is off set and he is not getting the torque to make that type of throw.

 

Looking at the route diagram - I think Knox is ok - typically that route would angle deeper with Knox heading out past the forty to give him space between 43 underneath and 23 over the top.  The route at the end curls back toward the 45, but Think that was the lack of strength on the throw that caused that.

 

I do not mind the throw - it is not really hero ball - it was diagnosing the play and making the read and then getting just to much pressure to complete the throw.  That entire play needed another couple of seconds because if he has less pressure - I think he moves his eyes toward Beasley that is breaking open, but he knows the primary read is Knox and the pressure forces the throw and he is not able to get the follow through to get the throw over the top.  
 

Actually - that is a key part of the Chargers defense - they allow those longer routes to develop and try to undercut them with the expectation that their D-Line can rush a throw and get them the Int.  It is also why if the D-Line doesn’t get there they have given up a ton of big plays.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I had no problems with the game yesterday. 

 

The Bills led all day and the way the game played out, we got a little of everything: 

 

Allen hit a 44 yard pass, the Bills scored on a trick play, Moss and Singletary broke off long runs, the defense generated sacks and turnovers. 

 

 

[K-9]

It was fugly. But a fugly win is better than a fugly loss. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again for those upset read the text.....  I said I'm usually tough & came away not happy....  Was anyone happy about the Offense yesterday?

 

Running game only looks okay due to the 4th quarter, but was not so good for the most part.  

 

Again I keep asking for a true dominant 4 quarter game and LAC is 3-8, and we didn't blow out 0-11 NYJ either game.  Oh and 4 games have come down to the last possession. 

 

And again as per the title, giving them a pass was tongue in cheek saying that while not happy, not getting upset about it all as they won and that in the end is what mattered.

 

JMHO.... 

 

The Chiefs have had 4 games that came down to the last possession.....

The Steelers have had 4 games that came down to the last possession....

[BillsFan130]

There are upsets that happen every week in the nfl.
 

Bills played a pretty mediocre game for their standards, and still won by 10 points while losing the turnover battle 3-1.

 

I will take it. 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by BillsFan130

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

Nice Shot, I will not comment on whether he is falling back or not, but that shot is great if you look at his left arm - when he is comfortable that arm is tight and his left hand is up under his chin strap.

 

Whether he is falling back or not able to step up - it looks like his base is off set and he is not getting the torque to make that type of throw.

 

This part I agree with.  He doesn't set and step into the throw normally. 

 

Your observation is good that he doesn't have the left arm tight.  Not a good "rotational pass"

 

 

21 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The Chiefs have had 4 games that came down to the last possession.....

The Steelers have had 4 games that came down to the last possession....

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

let me quote myself from a different thread 

 

Quote

 

The Bills had THE most rushing yards against the Chargers with 172 combined yards

The Bills had THE most take away's with 3 against the Chargers on the season

The Bills had limited the Chargers to 1 passing TD.  (same as KC and Carolina) 

The Bills defense provided Herbert's worst QB rating of the season of 58.82 (thus far)

The Bills had limited Herbert to his 2nd worst Comp %.  31 of 52

 

 

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

 

speechless 

 

[reddogblitz]

What is there to give a "pass" on? We won the freakin' game by 10 points.

 

There are no style points in football 🏈.  

 

Just win baby.

Edited December 1, 2020 by reddogblitz