Washington Post Does a deep dive on Josh Allens development so far

[Whkfc]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/06/josh-allen-bills-quarterback-improvement/

 

Quite an article for an out of market source. Expect this type of story from Buffalo News or The Athletic.

How much can be posted here? I dont wanna break any rules.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Whkfc

[RoyBatty is alive]

Great article, thanks for posting it.

[Big Turk]

Can't read it without subscribing

[Whkfc]

Brent Vigen cringed when he heard the question posed by an audacious freshman, one of the Wyoming quarterbacks on a Zoom call with a celebrated Cowboys alum. Josh Allen remains connected to the program where he developed into a first-round draft pick, and in May he joined players to offer advice and answer questions. After Allen detailed his quarantine workouts and offseason approach, the freshman piped up.

When you look back, what do you think of that last stretch against Houston in the playoffs?

Vigen, Wyoming’s offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach during Allen’s tenure and now, braced. The end of the Buffalo Bills’ first-round loss to the Texans included moments of virtuosity and insanity that define what both fans and detractors call the Josh Allen Experience. He underhanded a lateral over his tight end’s head while two defenders tackled him. He rifled an ill-advised, across-his-body dart for a first down. He hurdled a linebacker. Ultimately, the Bills squandered a 16-0 lead and lost in overtime.

And now, some 18-year-old had asked the program’s most famous alum about it.

But as Allen spoke, Vigen realized he had no need for worry. Allen took responsibility for the Bills’ collapse without deflection or anger. He diagnosed how he would have played differently. Most insightful, Allen pointed to the end of the first half. Coaches had play-called conservatively to set up a field goal rather than allow Allen to try for a touchdown. Allen explained he needed to change over the offseason for his coaches to see him in a new light, to trust him in those moments.

“I said, ‘Okay, this is a different Josh,’ ” Vigen said. “He got a taste last year, and now he’s hungrier than ever.”

 

Allen has emerged through the season’s first four weeks as one of the most improved and interesting players in the NFL, sneaking into the periphery of the MVP debate. He has captained the Bills to a 4-0 start, authored a barrage of highlights and ranks second in the league in passing yards (1,326) and third in touchdown passes (12) while completing 70.9 percent of his throws and running for three more scores.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Whkfc

[K-9]

Too bad the WP consulted Sam Monson for the piece. 

[Billy Claude]

I think the following is the most relevant quote from the article -- there are very few athletes who are able to identify where they need to improve as well as he does.

 

The trait that Allen is rarely given enough credit for, Vigen believes, is his competitive intelligence — his willingness to identify what he needs to improve. Vigen had watched Allen mature over the years in his ability to attack those weaknesses. In discussions this offseason, Vigen sensed Allen was “on a mission.”

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Billy Claude

[Doc]

Who was the punk who asked Josh that question?

[IgotBILLStopay]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

Who was the punk who asked Josh that question?

We can do with such spunk. Sign him to the Bills roster.

[Buffalo Junction]

36 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Can't read it without subscribing

Clear your browsing history and try again. 

[Buffalo716]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

Who was the punk who asked Josh that question?

A kid who asked a legitimate question is a punk?

 

Good thing Josh Allen doesn't think like that

[K-9]

26 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

I think the following is the most relevant quote from the article -- there are very few athletes who are able to identify where they need to improve as well as he does.

 

The trait that Allen is rarely given enough credit for, Vigen believes, is his competitive intelligence — his willingness to identify what he needs to improve. Vigen had watched Allen mature over the years in his ability to attack those weaknesses. In discussions this offseason, Vigen sensed Allen was “on a mission.”

 

 

Funny how the PFFs of the world just can’t quantify that aspect of the position. They think QB = passer and they couldn’t be more clueless on the matter. But it’s nice to know they can tell us who throws the prettiest incomplete passes. 

[DrDawkinstein]

My favorite part, and surprisingly accurate for PFF:

 

Quote

“Bills Mafia hates us,” Sam Monson, the lead NFL analyst for statistics website Pro Football Focus, said with a laugh. “There are T-shirts. They think we hate Josh Allen. They think we hate the Bills generally. It’s understandable.

 

It's true. Glad you understand.

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Clear your browsing history and try again. 

Nope

[Johnnycage46]

51 minutes ago, Billy Claude said:

I think the following is the most relevant quote from the article -- there are very few athletes who are able to identify where they need to improve as well as he does.

 

The trait that Allen is rarely given enough credit for, Vigen believes, is his competitive intelligence — his willingness to identify what he needs to improve. Vigen had watched Allen mature over the years in his ability to attack those weaknesses. In discussions this offseason, Vigen sensed Allen was “on a mission.”

 

 

Ha!  I just finished this paragraph in the article and came to post it.  I think it is THE thing that is making Allen improve so much.  He is acutely aware of his short comings and seems to bust his ass to fix them.  Love it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

31 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

My favorite part, and surprisingly accurate for PFF:

 

 

It's true. Glad you understand.

 

Well, some of Bills Mafia hates them. 

 

Others of Bills Mafia, like moi, doesn't think they're worth the mental energy to work up a good cloud of hate.

Mockery is as far as I'll go.  Momson admits they tweeted out Duck Hodges was better, not because they really believed it, but to rile us up.  Therefore, nothing they say should be taken seriously or treated as believable going forward.  Sources who aren't believable should be ignored.

 

 

[ProcessAccepted]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, some of Bills Mafia hates them. 

 

Others of Bills Mafia, like moi, doesn't think they're worth the mental energy to work up a good cloud of hate.

Mockery is as far as I'll go.  Momson admits they tweeted out Duck Hodges was better, not because they really believed it, but to rile us up.  Therefore, nothing they say should be taken seriously or treated as believable going forward.  Sources who aren't believable should be ignored.

 

 

Monson should learn from Jerry Sullivan. Credibility will be difficult to earn when Josh becomes the face of the league.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, Whkfc said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/06/josh-allen-bills-quarterback-improvement/

 

Quite an article for an out of market source. Expect this type of story from Buffalo News or The Athletic.

How much can be posted here? I dont wanna break any rules.

Thanks for that. Would have been a great article if the writer spent half or a third of the time with PFF and Monsoon.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

A kid who asked a legitimate question is a punk?

 

Good thing Josh Allen doesn't think like that

 

It was a punky question.  Hence the reason Vigen "cringed" at it.

[Mickey]

26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

  Sources who aren't believable should be ignored.

 

 

 

The notion that we or other Allen fans concentrated on the wrong stats, being beguiled by Josh's big plays, is lunacy. It was they who were obsessed with the wrong stats causing them to miss what was right in front of them. Rotisserie Baseball enthusiasts should not be allowed to give opinions on football without first detoxing at a re-education camp for recovering arithmomaniacs.

 

Oh yeah, its a word:

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/arithmomania

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

The notion that we or other Allen fans concentrated on the wrong stats, being beguiled by Josh's big plays, is lunacy. It was they who were obsessed with the wrong stats causing them to miss what was right in front of them. Rotisserie Baseball enthusiasts should not be allowed to give opinions on football without first detoxing at a re-education camp for recovering arithmomaniacs.

 

Oh yeah, its a word:

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/arithmomania

 

 

I always say TBD is Educational. 

 

Some aspects of my education are more enjoyable than others

 

31 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Thanks for that. Would have been a great article if the writer spent half or a third of the time with PFF and Monsoon.

 

Did you mean "would have been a great article if the writer HAD NOT spent half or a third of it on PFF and Monson"?

 

I concur, less PFF and more facts and info

[Lurker]

Meh.   Too much focus on stats and analytics.     Even with the great 4-0 start, stats will always be the secondary way to describe Josh's game...     

 

 

[Don Otreply]

Pff is a joke, top to bottom, imo anyone who caters to them deserves their angst. Never click on their stories or their site, it is the best punishment for their frat boy behavior. 
 

 

[eball]

I’m so glad I haven’t spent the last 2+ years whining about Josh’s inaccuracy and “failure to dominate in college” and allowed myself to watch and enjoy his progression.  It’s really satisfying.

[Doc]

Just now, eball said:

I’m so glad I haven’t spent the last 2+ years whining about Josh’s inaccuracy and “failure to dominate in college” and allowed myself to watch and enjoy his progression.  It’s really satisfying.

 

Yup.  I didn't want him initially but then saw what he could become early-on (Vikings game).  I never thought he'd be completing 70% of his passes, though, much less at 9.0 YPA.

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

2 hours ago, Whkfc said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/06/josh-allen-bills-quarterback-improvement/

 

Quite an article for an out of market source. Expect this type of story from Buffalo News or The Athletic.

How much can be posted here? I dont wanna break any rules.

 

Thank you for posting the article, but it's basically a retroactive way for the statisticians to cover their asses.  That being said, I did enjoy the little snippets with the Wyoming OC, and the story about the freshman asking JA the question about the Houston game.

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

I was hoping for mid 60's, and I think by the end of the season that's where he'll be. Still don't think he'll end up at 70% all said and done.

 

Frankly I don't care where he ends up, as long as the team is winning.  But mid-60's is fine with me.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

It was a punky question.  Hence the reason Vigen "cringed" at it.

Or he knows Josh Allen is really passionate and may have become angry thinking about it

 

But quarterbacks always need to learn from tough moments and bad mistakes, and Allen has definitely used that game as momentum and fuel to get better

 

And it's a valid question for a Young quarterback to ask someone who's been there

[H2o]

Quote

Later this season, Allen’s coaches will arrive at a moment when they have to decide how much they trust him, how well they believe he can make the easy plays between the spectacular plays. Allen has been thinking about that moment all offseason. He is ready to show them he is different

Pretty sure we have already had this moment, at least twice now. First in the Miami game when Daboll came out calling deep routes and letting Josh throw bombs. Second the Rams game where Josh drove us down the field for the W. They already trust him completely in my opinion and have shown it through the first 4 weeks of the season. 

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, Whkfc said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/06/josh-allen-bills-quarterback-improvement/

 

Quite an article for an out of market source. Expect this type of story from Buffalo News or The Athletic.

How much can be posted here? I dont wanna break any rules.

 

It has been my experience you can access the article if you are using a browser you have not been to their site for a while but it may differ on where you are coming from.

 

Usually I copy articles since when I go back a second time often it is not available.  Been known to send such articles in PMs.

Quote

Bills Mafia hates us,” Sam Monson, the lead NFL analyst for statistics website Pro Football Focus, said with a laugh. “There are T-shirts. They think we hate Josh Allen. They think we hate the Bills generally. It’s understandable."

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Pretty sure we have already had this moment, at least twice now. First in the Miami game when Daboll came out calling deep routes and letting Josh throw bombs. Second the Rams game where Josh drove us down the field for the W. They already trust him completely in my opinion and have shown it through the first 4 weeks of the season. 

 

I'm unsure.  Haven't there been a couple of drives where we went to a clock-control ground game near our own end zone and had to punt and give the opponent a chance to score, where if we took a little risk of throwing and got a first down we could have sealed it? 

 

I think conservatism aka "turtling up with a lead" is a fundamental part of McDermott's coaching DNA, but I don't think we can exclude they were worried that a fumble or miscue from Josh at that point might cost us the win.

 

I think McDermott will always want to "turtle up" and go conservative with a slight lead.  Then when his D can't deliver and the other team scores so we have to come back from behind, it's "Balls to the Wall" out of necessity.  Just the way I see it, perhaps.

[H2o]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm unsure.  Haven't there been a couple of drives where we went to a clock-control ground game near our own end zone and had to punt and give the opponent a chance to score, where if we took a little risk of throwing and got a first down we could have sealed it? 

 

I think conservatism aka "turtling up with a lead" is a fundamental part of McDermott's coaching DNA, but I don't think we can exclude they were worried that a fumble or miscue from Josh at that point might cost us the win.

 

I think McDermott will always want to "turtle up" and go conservative with a slight lead.  Then when his D can't deliver and the other team scores so we have to come back from behind, it's "Balls to the Wall" out of necessity.  Just the way I see it, perhaps.

We had the lead against Miami and Josh was out there throwing bombs instead of running clock. He just missed the first one. Then they ran basically the same exact play and he dropped it in there fir the TD. Nothing was going our way after that fake INT call against the Rams and they held the ball for like 22 minutes in the 2nd half. When it was time to man up Josh did so again. They played it a bit conservative against Oakland, but we have to get this running game figured out at some point. I think they trust him and I believe McD is conservative in nature at the same time if that makes sense.

[purple haze]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

Who was the punk who asked Josh that question?

Not necessarily a punk for asking, depending on the way it was asked and the context.  There are lessons to be learned from how that game ended for Allen.  Adversity can be a good teacher for those who pay attention.  Allen did and went to work on his shortcomings.   It’s good he answered with detail.  
 

The coach is probably used to things being kept lite with visiting speakers so he got uptight.  However, Allen doesn’t strike me as a dude one would need to tiptoe around.

[JaCrispy]

5 hours ago, eball said:

I’m so glad I haven’t spent the last 2+ years whining about Josh’s inaccuracy and “failure to dominate in college” and allowed myself to watch and enjoy his progression.  It’s really satisfying.

I’ve been able to do both...and I, too, am thoroughly satisfied...It’s exciting seeing him beat the odds...🍻

Edited October 7, 2020 by JaCrispy

[Ralonzo]

7 hours ago, K-9 said:

Too bad the WP consulted Sam Monson for the piece. 

 

Is this piece is part of Monson's Apology Tour?

[Shaw66]

There's a lot of good stuff in this article.  Well, good because it confirms things I thought.  

 

It says what we're seeing is improvement in Allen's understanding of the game.  Mechanically they worked on little things, but they really worked on his understanding of the playbook, how he "processes the plays." 

 

Allen says he and Daboll are very much on the same page.  Said Daboll will watch the Monday night game, come in Tuesday saying "did you see what they were doing?  we could do something like that."  

 

Interesting stuff.

[Sherlock Holmes]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Clear your browsing history and try again. 

Probably good advice regardless...

[machine gun kelly]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, some of Bills Mafia hates them. 

 

Others of Bills Mafia, like moi, doesn't think they're worth the mental energy to work up a good cloud of hate.

Mockery is as far as I'll go.  Momson admits they tweeted out Duck Hodges was better, not because they really believed it, but to rile us up.  Therefore, nothing they say should be taken seriously or treated as believable going forward.  Sources who aren't believable should be ignored.

 

 

As always Hapless, nailed it.  I can proudly say I’ve never been on any PFF site, read one of their articles other than one of you guys post something here.  It’s kind of like power rankings.  It’s a big so what.  We’re 4-0, the offense looks great, and I trust McD to figure it out in defense.  Not his first rodeo.  Norman was a nice add at least for one game.  I’m hopeful he plays like this the rest of the year.

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Can't read it without subscribing

 

 

I did. You only get two or three Washington Post articles a month before you have to subscribe. If you've already read some, you can't read this one. But I don't subscribe and I was able to read it.

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, some of Bills Mafia hates them. 

 

Others of Bills Mafia, like moi, doesn't think they're worth the mental energy to work up a good cloud of hate.

Mockery is as far as I'll go.  Momson admits they tweeted out Duck Hodges was better, not because they really believed it, but to rile us up.  Therefore, nothing they say should be taken seriously or treated as believable going forward.  Sources who aren't believable should be ignored.

 

 

 

 

 

So anyone who says anything provocative, ever, should be ignored forever after? Please. I'm 100% sure that would put me on ignore to the world and I'm willing to bet that you've sometime riled someone up deliberately as well at some point.

 

PFF is a damn good site. Not so much so some of the internet talks shows they have at times put out. But they're a terrific site, with a ton of useful interesting info. Which, again, is why most NFL teams pay for their info. 

 

That - of course - doesn't mean they're perfect in every evaluation. Their method apparently downgrades heavily for bad plays, which hurt Josh a ton the last couple of years. Put him lower than I thought he should be. They now have him as sixth-best according to the article. Yeah. That's the right neighborhood.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

It was a punky question.  Hence the reason Vigen "cringed" at it.

 

 

 

No, it was a question that the immature college version of Josh Allen might have blown up at. That's why he cringed at it but was subsequently impressed at Josh's growth and present-day maturity.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Thurman#1