Will Epenesa be inactive on Sunday? Interesting scenario

[LB48]

Get him on the field so he knows how the NFL plays the game!

[Big Blitz]

8 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Then again, I don’t think Beane has been all that and a bag of chips in the draft, he has hit on exactly 0 picks thus far.  Everyone is still obsessed with the potential he’s picked, but Allen, Edmunds, Oliver are all just that so far, none are anywhere near the top tier of their positions and all cost a lot.  The last great pick was DW’s with Tre and that’s debatable in comparison with Maholmes or Watson sitting in your lap.  This year will basically define Beane as both Edmunds and Allen have to show up big time and E.O. Needs to be more than a rotation guy as well.   I get the distinct feeling Moss may be the big winner for him to be really honest.

 

Beane has only been here for 3 drafts.  The 3rd one we haven't seen anyone play.  And those guys just went thru a limited off season.  

 

Moss could be a stud.  Gabe Davis looks like AJ Green.  If that alone comes from this draft...add to it AJE's potential could be the best of his 3 so far.  

 

Still waiting on final returns from 18s and 19s class.  Josh, Oliver, Ford, Singletary, and Edmunds being the most significant.  Not top tier guys....yet.  But that's a very good core.  4 of them have stud potential.  Allen is a potential MVP candidate this year.  

 

I'd have taken DK last year RD 2 but the need for an OT was too great and they clearly had a plan at WR.....specifically the 2020 draft.

  

 

Also speaking of the active roster, I think there is something to the Lorax being back on this team come mid season chatter.  Don't rule that out.  

Edited September 10, 2020 by Big Blitz

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Beane has only been here for 3 drafts.  The 3rd one we haven't seen anyone play.  And those guys just went thru a limited off season.  

 

Moss could be a stud.  Gave Davis looks like AJ Green.  If that alone comes from this draft...add to it AJE's potential could be the best of his 3 so far.  

 

Still waiting on final returns from 18s and 19s class.  Josh, Oliver, Ford, Singletary, and Edmunds being the most significant.  Not top tier guys....yet.  But that's a very good core.  4 of them have stud potential.  Allen is a potential MVP candidate this year.  

 

I'd have taken DK last year RD 2 but the need for an OT was too great and they clearly had a plan at WR.....specifically the 2020 draft.

  

 

Also speaking of the active roster, I think there is something to the Lorax being back on this team come mid season chatter.  Don't rule that out.  

Yeah, all of that.  The chatter around here makes it sound like he’s been crushing everything and the reality is he has not hit on anyone big.  It’s not that Allen can’t be great, but he isn’t right now.  It’s not that Edmunds isn’t good, but nobody in their right mind would give up what they did to draft him, knowing his current production.  Ford sucked last year, so that pick wasn’t exactly great “vision” for 2019.  This draft class is full of potential again, but there hasn’t been a preseason game yet, so let’s not get too excited about practice.

[HOUSE]

We  are doomed

[YoloinOhio]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Beane has only been here for 3 drafts.  The 3rd one we haven't seen anyone play.  And those guys just went thru a limited off season.  

 

Moss could be a stud.  Gabe Davis looks like AJ Green.  If that alone comes from this draft...add to it AJE's potential could be the best of his 3 so far.  

 

Still waiting on final returns from 18s and 19s class.  Josh, Oliver, Ford, Singletary, and Edmunds being the most significant.  Not top tier guys....yet.  But that's a very good core.  4 of them have stud potential.  Allen is a potential MVP candidate this year.  

 

I'd have taken DK last year RD 2 but the need for an OT was too great and they clearly had a plan at WR.....specifically the 2020 draft.

  

 

Also speaking of the active roster, I think there is something to the Lorax being back on this team come mid season chatter.  Don't rule that out.  

Where are you seeing/hearing this? I’ve heard him interviewed about it at least twice and he said he would definitely consider coming back this year but only in the playoffs. Not regular season. He was very specific. 

[BarleyNY]

37 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Yeah, all of that.  The chatter around here makes it sound like he’s been crushing everything and the reality is he has not hit on anyone big.  It’s not that Allen can’t be great, but he isn’t right now.  It’s not that Edmunds isn’t good, but nobody in their right mind would give up what they did to draft him, knowing his current production.  Ford sucked last year, so that pick wasn’t exactly great “vision” for 2019.  This draft class is full of potential again, but there hasn’t been a preseason game yet, so let’s not get too excited about practice.

I’m actually surprised to read these realistic takes.  Nicely done.  I see things very similarly.  In Beane’s first year he really went all out getting young, raw cornerstones on both sides of the ball - Allen and Edmunds.  After this season we will either be talking about their productivity or their potential and that’ll tell us everything we need to know about them.
 

It does bring up an interesting question though.  What’s the proper criteria on which to judge a GM?   Flat out results?  Sound, defensible decision marking - including taking reasonable risks whether or not they pay off?  IMO it’s a mix of the two, but I’ll say this.  Beane will look a heck of a lot better if Allen and Edmunds pay off than if they don’t and, fair or not, he’ll probably be judged by most fans on Allen alone.

 

I’ve really liked some of the things Beane has done (Diggs trade, Dawkins and Tre extensions) and really questioned some others (Star and Kroft contracts).  Things will obviously come into much better focus after this season plays out.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s funny how things happen. There were people that were ADAMANT that the Bills would have taken AJE in the 1st round if they had a pick. Imagine if that were the case and he wasn’t active week 1?!? Epenesa fell into the Bills’ lap but he wasn’t on top of their board heading into day 2. He’s a role player and that’s fine. He will work his way onto the field and be a solid all-around player. This isn’t some athletic freak though that we should expect double-digit sacks from. He’s kind of like Shaq. 

 

And kind of picked where Shaq probably should've been.

[Kirby Jackson]

26 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

And kind of picked where Shaq probably should've been.

If he gives us the same production as Shaq did over the last year and a half it will be a good pick. They still need a young, athletic, edge rusher but that is in addition to, not instead of. With Hughes, Addison and Murphy, they are fine for now. That’s probably pretty high on the draft list next year.

[Seasons1992]

42 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

This team was pathetic for 20+ years.

 

"Hey, I tried......"

 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Yeah, all of that.  The chatter around here makes it sound like he’s been crushing everything and the reality is he has not hit on anyone big.  It’s not that Allen can’t be great, but he isn’t right now.  It’s not that Edmunds isn’t good, but nobody in their right mind would give up what they did to draft him, knowing his current production.  Ford sucked last year, so that pick wasn’t exactly great “vision” for 2019.  This draft class is full of potential again, but there hasn’t been a preseason game yet, so let’s not get too excited about practice.

 

What is your definition of big?  Pro Bowls?  Top 50 rated players, top 100?  Fantasy point warrior?  Top 5 in their position,, top 10?

I genuinely am curious.

 

I ask this because I find perception a funny thing.  I guess I've always been a team orientated fan over a player orientated one so maybe that skews things.

If I HAD to rate Beane success as a GM (that's everything a GM job encompasses) so far I would put him in the top 33%.

For my two cents top 33% is a really good job and I see him capable of improving on that.

[Simon Says]

might dress 9 OL and an extra CB

[ngbills]

10 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

The heck are you talking about?! Singletary had four carries week 1 last year and was very lightly used the first half of the season even before the hamstring injury:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/player/gamelogs/2019/2241251/devin-singletary

 

Snap count. He was on the field most of the game. Running routes and blocking and yes only 4 carries. Josh threw the ball 40 times that game. 

[Alphadawg7]

18 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

If game 1 2021 then I am worried.  Game 1 of rookie year with a reduced camp and a deep DL is no cause for concern.

This.  
 

AJE May or may not dress week 1.  It’s a testament to our talented DL and also impacted by no preseason and very limited camp.  It literally means nothing at this stage.  
 

AJE has a bright future ahead of him still.  But Bills want to start with a win week 1, and rookies with no preseason and very few full contact reps due to COVID are not likely to see much playing time over quality vets ahead of them during this first week.  McD has consistently brought rookies along slow in a normal year, this year AJE is a luxury pick essentially given we had good depth there already heading into draft.  He’s a pick for the future, to eventually take over for our aging vets at the same position.  It was never about him being a force ready to unleash week 1.  
 

This is literally just a non-story in the reality of his career regardless of he dresses or not.  

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Big Blitz]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Where are you seeing/hearing this? I’ve heard him interviewed about it at least twice and he said he would definitely consider coming back this year but only in the playoffs. Not regular season. He was very specific. 

 

Yes I heard exactly what you heard.

 

No one comes back to suit up for the first playoff game.  Need to get acclimated

 

If he wants to play, and we have room, and we're looking like a playoff team, he may very well sign by week 12 or so.  

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If he gives us the same production as Shaq did over the last year and a half it will be a good pick. They still need a young, athletic, edge rusher but that is in addition to, not instead of. With Hughes, Addison and Murphy, they are fine for now. That’s probably pretty high on the draft list next year.

I agree. None of our pass rushers are elite but they are above avg and serviceable. AJ's tape is good especially strip sacks from behind. I think I'd project him slightly better than Kelsay but not much. Next years 1st pick will guaranteed be DE.

[billsfan89]

18 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I think Butler is a serious liability. I expect other teams to exploit that weakness. Oliver has yet to prove himself and fans overrate Edmunds. I see a big day for Bell running the ball.

 

Edumonds is a stud, not sure why you think fans and others around the league overrate him. Butler might or might not be a liability but I think Harry could be a big anchor to the run game. It wasn't a coincidence that the 2019 team started their 4-5 game stretch of poor run defense when he got hurt after the Titans game.

[Logic]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Welp....

Guess that kind of throws many of the comments from this thread (including my own) into the trash bin.

People are shoveling dirt on this dude's career before he's even taken an NFL snap.

[SirAndrew]

15 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I actually think that’s best case.  I personally would not have picked him.  I feel the better picks would have been Dobbins (raw talent), OT, CB, WR, LB before a relatively limited DE.  He got by on strength against boys, but this is a mans league, he’s going to have to be quicker and add some moves to be much of anything in the NFL.  I’m not saying he can’t/won’t be more, but I saw a less twitchy Shaq Lawson.  To me, that’s not enough to spend a 2nd round pick on.  

Then again, I don’t think Beane has been all that and a bag of chips in the draft, he has hit on exactly 0 picks thus far.  Everyone is still obsessed with the potential he’s picked, but Allen, Edmunds, Oliver are all just that so far, none are anywhere near the top tier of their positions and all cost a lot.  The last great pick was DW’s with Tre and that’s debatable in comparison with Maholmes or Watson sitting in your lap.  This year will basically define Beane as both Edmunds and Allen have to show up big time and E.O. Needs to be more than a rotation guy as well.   I get the distinct feeling Moss may be the big winner for him to be really honest.

I wasn’t enamored with the Epenesa pick, but I’ll give him a chance. It’s clear to me that Beane has a solid plan where he values certain players and positions above others. I know many people wanted Dobbins, but I don’t think Beane values the RB position that early in the draft with so much talent left in the board. Beane got the guy he wanted with AJE, and still landed a quality RB. Those are the moves that make me appreciate Beane.
 

Epenesa will at least be a mediocre contributor, while Moss has potential to be a playmaker. Our previous regimes would have taken Dobbins who would have been a good player, but their next picks would have all been lucky to see the field. Epenesa and Moss will both see the field at some point. I don’t see Epenesa as a bust, maybe just not elite as some people will want. Gone are the days of spending high draft picks on WR’s and RB’s. Beane understands value by position. That’s why he was willing to make the deal for Diggs. Beane realizes that recent NFL history indicates WR’s are really tough draft picks to get right. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by SirAndrew

[Back2Buff]

This team should not value the development of Johnson versus Espenesa.  There should be zero instances this year where Johnson is playing over Espenesa.

[GunnerBill]

On 9/9/2020 at 5:29 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

There is something to this. Johnson played the highest % of ST snaps of any player on our roster last season. He will be active. 

 

 

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I agree. None of our pass rushers are elite but they are above avg and serviceable. AJ's tape is good especially strip sacks from behind. I think I'd project him slightly better than Kelsay but not much. Next years 1st pick will guaranteed be DE.

Unless Josh, somehow, doesn’t take the next step.  Then I can see a QB being that first pick depending who is available.

Edited September 10, 2020 by purple haze

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Welp....

Guess that kind of throws many of the comments from this thread (including my own) into the trash bin.

People are shoveling dirt on this dude's career before he's even taken an NFL snap.

Which I didn’t intend at all. I just think looking at the #s, assuming everyone is healthy, it’s a possibility he could be inactive 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is something to this. Johnson played the highest % of ST snaps of any player on our roster last season. He will be active. 

 

 

That was my take as well

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Which I didn’t intend at all. I just think looking at the #s, assuming everyone is healthy, it’s a possibility he could be inactive 

That was my take as well

Nothing against AJ here i felt.
Bills just have a stacked rotation.
Trust McFrazier on this one

[Logic]

10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Nothing against AJ here i felt.
Bills just have a stacked rotation.
Trust McFrazier on this one

Indeed.

To have such good team depth that it's not absolutely necessary that our highest drafted rookie make a huge impact is very refreshing.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Logic

[3rdand12]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

Indeed.

To have such good team depth that it's not absolutely necessary that our highest drafted rookie make a huge impact is very refreshing.

His time will come. Kid is versatile and great fit for Sean's defense. and sounds very Coachable
 

Go Bills

[HOUSE]

Wow, the guy is 21 and his career is over

[YoloinOhio]

I think the point here is he’s from the Big Ten and therefore not allowed to play football games 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I understand he may be the third string long snapper so game day lock? 🤷‍♂️ 

[DCofNC]

On 9/10/2020 at 9:57 AM, ColoradoBills said:

 

What is your definition of big?  Pro Bowls?  Top 50 rated players, top 100?  Fantasy point warrior?  Top 5 in their position,, top 10?

I genuinely am curious.

 

I ask this because I find perception a funny thing.  I guess I've always been a team orientated fan over a player orientated one so maybe that skews things.

If I HAD to rate Beane success as a GM (that's everything a GM job encompasses) so far I would put him in the top 33%.

For my two cents top 33% is a really good job and I see him capable of improving on that.

I would call “big” a true stand out player, yes that probably means in the top 10 for QB, RB, etc and maybe top 25 for CB, WR etc where there are a greater depth of players.  If you pick a QB in the top 10 and give up a lot to get up there to do so, he better be a true franchise guy.  Same thing for a MLB in the top 20, at that position he better be a top 5 to justify that draft capital.  In reality there have been very few DTs that have ever justified a top 15 pick either in terms of impact on the team’s success, so to me EO has better show the F up this year. 
 

Right now, this team has exactly 1 player who is indisputably a top player at their position and Beane had nothing to do with it.  He’s used 4 first round picks, 2 are starters, but certainly not for every team and one is Diggs, who I put as a top 20 WR, but anybody calling him more than that yet, is a dreamer.  Look at his production, it’s good, but no where near elite.  I still don’t like that trade, it might be more indicative of the fact they HAVE to evaluate Allen and this guy is proven, so I can take it from that perspective, but it was way too much for a mid tier #1 with the draft class of WRs last year.

[JohnNord]

I’m sorry - there’s no way around it.  When your 2nd round DE, who many thought had a 1st round grade, is not dressed then it’s a disappointment.  
 

Im sure there have been examples before, but I can’t remember a time when a high profile DE prospect started the year as a healthy scratch.  Not good 

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I would call “big” a true stand out player, yes that probably means in the top 10 for QB, RB, etc and maybe top 25 for CB, WR etc where there are a greater depth of players.  If you pick a QB in the top 10 and give up a lot to get up there to do so, he better be a true franchise guy.  Same thing for a MLB in the top 20, at that position he better be a top 5 to justify that draft capital.  In reality there have been very few DTs that have ever justified a top 15 pick either in terms of impact on the team’s success, so to me EO has better show the F up this year. 
 

Right now, this team has exactly 1 player who is indisputably a top player at their position and Beane had nothing to do with it.  He’s used 4 first round picks, 2 are starters, but certainly not for every team and one is Diggs, who I put as a top 20 WR, but anybody calling him more than that yet, is a dreamer.  Look at his production, it’s good, but no where near elite.  I still don’t like that trade, it might be more indicative of the fact they HAVE to evaluate Allen and this guy is proven, so I can take it from that perspective, but it was way too much for a mid tier #1 with the draft class of WRs last year.

 

Thanks for your definition.  Diggs seems to me to be a solid WR1 but if you disagree that's fine.

So we are only looking at drafts from 2018-2020.

Let's just stick with the division.  What are the "hits" since 2018 for the Pats*, Fins and Jets in your definition?

[BarleyNY]

On 9/10/2020 at 12:15 PM, YoloinOhio said:

 

Really interested to see how Epensa would match up against Becton.  He’s probably the only DE on the team that could go power v power against him. 

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’m sorry - there’s no way around it.  When your 2nd round DE, who many thought had a 1st round grade, is not dressed then it’s a disappointment.  
 

Im sure there have been examples before, but I can’t remember a time when a high profile DE prospect started the year as a healthy scratch.  Not good 

Epensa was the 54th overall pick.  You can’t find other examples of players drafted around that spot that didn’t dress or play in their first NFL game?  And I’d note that in this case the player didn’t have a OTAs, a full training camp or 4 preseason games to get ready and we still aren’t even sure that he’s not dressing. 

[DCofNC]

14 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Thanks for your definition.  Diggs seems to me to be a solid WR1 but if you disagree that's fine.

So we are only looking at drafts from 2018-2020.

Let's just stick with the division.  What are the "hits" since 2018 for the Pats*, Fins and Jets in your definition?

I actually agree Diggs is a “Solid” number 1, even though he really has never been a true 1 on his own team.  I think he’s closer to Robert Woods than D’Andre Hopkins who was traded for less I might add.  I’m just not happy with what they gave up to get him.

 

As for comparisons to the division, I’m not sure why you would want to compare the successes of your team to 2 of the worst franchises in the NFL and one of the most notoriously mediocre drafting ( yet still unbelievably successful) teams as your benchmarks.
 

The Jets basically are in the same place as the Bills, Darnold steps up, they’re set,  The Phins took Fitzpatrick who they flipped for a 1st round pick, not too bad and Wilkins who we shall see on.  The Pats were adding pieces for a Championship run and I don’t think they really belong in this conversation because their team was already built. 
 

Meanwhile, we take a QB the year after we should have ( stupid owners and ***** coach to blame there), then took Edmunds after trading up, the pick before Derwin James. That’s a miss.  Nothing Beane could do for the year before, but forcing picks hasn’t exactly been getting resounding results in my opinion.  So far he’s landed guys with potential and holes in their game, if they develop, great, if not he has wasted 1st round picks.

[Coach Tuesday]

You’d rather have Derwin James than Edmunds?  Really?  Dude had an injury history coming out and he’s barely played.

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I actually agree Diggs is a “Solid” number 1, even though he really has never been a true 1 on his own team.  I think he’s closer to Robert Woods than D’Andre Hopkins who was traded for less I might add.  I’m just not happy with what they gave up to get him.

 

As for comparisons to the division, I’m not sure why you would want to compare the successes of your team to 2 of the worst franchises in the NFL and one of the most notoriously mediocre drafting ( yet still unbelievably successful) teams as your benchmarks.
 

The Jets basically are in the same place as the Bills, Darnold steps up, they’re set,  The Phins took Fitzpatrick who they flipped for a 1st round pick, not too bad and Wilkins who we shall see on.  The Pats were adding pieces for a Championship run and I don’t think they really belong in this conversation because their team was already built. 
 

Meanwhile, we take a QB the year after we should have ( stupid owners and ***** coach to blame there), then took Edmunds after trading up, the pick before Derwin James. That’s a miss.  Nothing Beane could do for the year before, but forcing picks hasn’t exactly been getting resounding results in my opinion.  So far he’s landed guys with potential and holes in their game, if they develop, great, if not he has wasted 1st round picks.

 

I'm using the division teams because they are the Bills immediate competition.  I see what points you are making but I personally think Beane/McDermott

and the rest of OBD are positioning themselves to be the team to beat for a good number of years to come.

This year will be very telling how the team (and individual players) are progrssing.

[DCofNC]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You’d rather have Derwin James than Edmunds?  Really?  Dude had an injury history coming out and he’s barely played.

Injuries are definitely a concern, but he was the best player on their team as a rookie.

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm using the division teams because they are the Bills immediate competition.  I see what points you are making but I personally think Beane/McDermott

and the rest of OBD are positioning themselves to be the team to beat for a good number of years to come.

This year will be very telling how the team (and individual players) are progrssing.

I think they are doing a solid job, but the way people talk, it’s like they walk on water and I don’t agree with that.   I also am of the very unpopular train of thought, if McDermott doesn’t grow as a coach and understand situational football better, specifically on offense, he will be another Marvin Lewis, just good enough it’s hard to fire and never good enough to win the big games.

 

This year is a true pivotal season for the team, they’ll ride or die with Allen, but there’s a lot more to watch.

[Coach Tuesday]

7 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Injuries are definitely a concern, but he was the best player on their team as a rookie.

Edmunds has not missed a game and is 21.  There is not a single GM in the league that would consider him a “miss.”