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Miami Confirms that Rosen might be traded Update: signed w/ Tampa Bay

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SWATeam
SWATeam

Come on home right Josh!

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Let’s not lose sight of what is awesome here. The Dolphins wasted  2nd and 5th round picks on a one season back up.

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Punching Bag Hall of Famer

Punching Bag

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5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

OUCH!

 

He will get picked up cheaper than his rookie deal would have allowed for. He’ll still be a backup somewhere and given a chance to right the ship. 

 

And get paid the guaranteed portion of contract no matter how little team which picks him pays him since no team will pick him up in waivers.

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Punching Bag Hall of Famer

Punching Bag

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1 hour ago, bobobonators said:

Why are there so many Rosen supporters on this board? 

 

He didnt get a raw deal; the teams that invested anything in this bum got the raw deal. 

 

Because long term posters know that while Rosen may make mistakes and wears a Kilt or Panda Suit he is solid support of the Bills.

 

You were talking about Jay Rosen, right?

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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8 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

If you were the Miami FO and wanted to maximize the value of your soon to be castoff, would you let word out he was having a poor camp or a good camp?  Might get you an extra sack of footballs for him.  😁

 

I think it was the beat guy they had on Howard and Jeremy who said Rosen was having a decent camp. Was a week or so back. I always felt like he was not gonna make that squad.

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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

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Rosen was my guy coming out. He may not be the franchise QB that I expected but he has had as bad of a situation as any QB in the league. I’d take Rosen over Fromm 8 days a week. I’d be all for adding Rosen to this stable Bills environment. You may end up with a trade partner in a year or so.

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HappyDays Hall of Famer

HappyDays

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For Rosen, the question has not been talent. Dolphins coach Brian Flores said Rosen had the best arm of all the quarterbacks in camp, but Rosen fell behind when it came to the processing part of football -- identifying defenses pre-snap, being able to predict changing coverages and linebackers shifting, and ultimately being able to let the ball fly accurately and on time. Those are all skills Rosen has spent time working on this offseason in Miami.

 

It's weird because in college reading defenses was one of his strengths.

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Ed_Formerly_of_Roch All Pro

Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

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So does he now become the highest drafted player waived from the 2018 draft? Believe he was the 10th overall pick??  Could that even be an all time record to be selected that high and waived after 2 seasons?   And was traded after 1 season!

 

There's been plenty of higher drafted players, even #1 overall, but usually make it at least through 3 seasons when selected that high.  Maybe they are traded, but not waived?

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's weird because in college reading defenses was one of his strengths.

 

It is indeed weird.

 

Erhardt-Perkins and WCO terminology and ways of thinking about plays are said to be a different language.   Coaches who want to install a WCO are reluctant to pick up a QB who has played in E-P systems and vice versa.  That may be part of it.

I wonder if part of it, though, is the "Empty your Cup" phenomenon:
Scholar Tokusan--who was full of knowledge and opinions about the dharma--came to Ryutan and asked about Zen. At one point Ryutan re-filled his guest's teacup but did not stop pouring when the cup was full. Tea spilled out and ran over the table. "Stop! The cup is full!" said Tokusan.  "Exactly," said Master Ryutan. "You are like this cup; you are full of ideas. You come and ask for teaching, but your cup is full; I can't put anything in. Before I can teach you, you'll have to empty your cup."   This is harder than you might realize. By the time we reach adulthood we are so full of information that we don't even notice it's there. We might consider ourselves to be open-minded, but in fact, everything we learn is filtered through many assumptions and then classified to fit into the knowledge we already possess.

Or, maybe Rosen is just one of many talented college QB who can not adjust his mental "processing clock" to the speed of the NFL game. 

For that matter, it remains to be seen if Josh Allen can do so, honestly - he's had more success than Rosen to date, but to take a step, he needs to show he can process and "find his answers" faster.  The promising reports out of camp, may not translate to game speed.
 

On the other hand, promising reports out of camp are miles ahead of "not good enough" or "struggling" reports out of camp....

 

 
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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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25 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Imagine it being right before the 2017 draft and I showed you a 2020 roster that showed Josh Allen and Josh Rosen on the Bills.

 

Is there any chance you would have predicted this path for the both of them?

 

Imagine it is right now and you show me a 2020 roster with both Josh Allen and Josh Rosen on the Bills...

 

I wouldn't believe it until proof is offered

 

Beane, McDermott, and Daboll said "Hard Pass" back in 2018, don't think they've seen anything out of Rosen to change their point of view

 

17 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

and Rosen was supposed to be the most pro ready qb

 

I guess what I'm suggesting amounts to saying "perhaps that actually worked against him"

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NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

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3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Rosen was my guy coming out. He may not be the franchise QB that I expected but he has had as bad of a situation as any QB in the league. I’d take Rosen over Fromm 8 days a week. I’d be all for adding Rosen to this stable Bills environment. You may end up with a trade partner in a year or so.


you have to wonder if he’s just fried at this point.

 

he might’ve had the worst situation of a generation of first rounders and once you break the confidence and developmental cycle it’s hard to get them squared back up. 
 

I wouldn’t mind it but despite thinking he was a good prospect I wouldn’t expect much 

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Don Otreply All Pro

Don Otreply

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30 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

I don't think he's getting another shot.  He's about to get Ryan Leafed out of football.  I'd feel bad for him but $17.5 Mill aint a bad consolation prize

I could be forced into retirement for $17.5 million...

 

Could be the wake up call that he has really never heard before...

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Buffalo716 Hall of Famer

Buffalo716

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1 hour ago, njbuff said:

 

I guess they meant the CFL, not the NFL. 😁

Pro ready doesn't mean good in the pros

 

If you remember Nathan Peterman was regarded as the most pro ready quarterback in his draft by lots

 

It means ability to pick up a playbook, Read a defense, get people in the right spot etc

 

It actually has nothing to do with football talent

 

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Pro ready doesn't mean good in the pros

 

If you remember Nathan Peterman was regarded as the most pro ready quarterback in his draft by lots

It means ability to pick up a playbook, Read a defense, get people in the right spot etc

It actually has nothing to do with football talent

 

Peterman's folly appears to be that his brain writes a check that his arm can't cash in the League

 

From what Flores was quoted saying, reading the D, getting people into the right spot, and knowing where to throw the ball given the D (all exactly those pro ready things you cite) were the very things Rosen struggled with last year and still this year in TC under Chan (who I think runs a simpler, more rookie-friendly E-P)

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Buffalo716 Hall of Famer

Buffalo716

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18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Peterman's folly appears to be that his brain writes a check that his arm can't cash in the League

 

From what Flores was quoted saying, reading the D, getting people into the right spot, and knowing where to throw the ball given the D (all exactly those pro ready things you cite) were the very things Rosen struggled with last year and still this year in TC under Chan (who I think runs a simpler, more rookie-friendly E-P)

Some people just don't have the heart. And nobody will ever be able to measure that

 

If Rosen is struggling getting players into the right spot, reading a defense pre-snap or learning A playbook he's done

 

If you show those three things and show up every day early and bust your ass, you will stick longer in the league than you realize

 

Because a lot of players actually struggle with those three things. Look at a guy like Chase Daniels, epitome of a professional backup quarterback

 

He could do all those things with his eyes closed and he's got over a decade in the league, with like only a handful of starts

 

Rosen was supposed to be a pretty smart quarterback so if he can't do that he's toast

 

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NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

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32 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Some people just don't have the heart. And nobody will ever be able to measure that

 

If Rosen is struggling getting players into the right spot, reading a defense pre-snap or learning A playbook he's done

 

If you show those three things and show up every day early and bust your ass, you will stick longer in the league than you realize

 

Because a lot of players actually struggle with those three things. Look at a guy like Chase Daniels, epitome of a professional backup quarterback

 

He could do all those things with his eyes closed and he's got over a decade in the league, with like only a handful of starts

 

Rosen was supposed to be a pretty smart quarterback so if he can't do that he's toast

 


To be fair, in February he received his 4th playbook in less than 2 calendar years

 

1st year AZ

kliff

welcome to miami

chan


hell of a “welcome to the pros”

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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28 minutes ago, NoSaint said:


To be fair, in February he received his 4th playbook in less than 2 calendar years

 

1st year AZ

kliff

welcome to miami

chan


hell of a “welcome to the pros”

 

And that 1st year in Arizona they changed coordinators early too. McCoy to Leftwich. 

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

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Just now, NoSaint said:


that’s right! 
 

So 4 full playbooks and 5 OCs inside of 22ish months 

 

He has not been good but he has been in two awful situations behind dreadful olines and with unstable coaching. If he still wants to he can still have a career. But there were questions about his heart from the start and if anything is likely to make a guy give up this situation is. 

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GaryPinC Veteran

GaryPinC

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32 minutes ago, NoSaint said:


To be fair, in February he received his 4th playbook in less than 2 calendar years

 

1st year AZ

kliff

welcome to miami

chan


hell of a “welcome to the pros”

Very true, one can point to all the excuses you want but let's be real.  Quarterback is the most difficult and coveted position in the league.  You look at guys like Peterman, Cardale Jones, EJ being able to stick around.  AZ turned around and drafted another QB to dump Rosen instead of trading down for a wealth of draft picks. 

 

Here's Flores' quote "Miami head coach Brian Flores called Rosen "immensely talented" and praised his work ethic, but noted that not every trade or draft pick pans out as expected."

 

My translation:. Rosen can't handle the mental component of NFL QB.  By a lot. 

 

I respect Flores as a coach and I find it difficult to believe Rosen gets dumped twice if either franchise felt there was anything worth developing in him.

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Hapless Bills Fan Hall of Famer

Hapless Bills Fan

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7 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Some people just don't have the heart. And nobody will ever be able to measure that

 

If Rosen is struggling getting players into the right spot, reading a defense pre-snap or learning A playbook he's done

If you show those three things and show up every day early and bust your ass, you will stick longer in the league than you realize

 

Because a lot of players actually struggle with those three things. Look at a guy like Chase Daniels, epitome of a professional backup quarterback

He could do all those things with his eyes closed and he's got over a decade in the league, with like only a handful of starts

 

Rosen was supposed to be a pretty smart quarterback so if he can't do that he's toast

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/miami-dolphins-release-quarterback-josh-rosen/story?id=72835678

 

"For Rosen, the question has not been talent. Flores said Rosen had the best arm of all the quarterbacks in camp, but Rosen fell behind when it came to the processing part of football -- identifying defenses pre-snap, being able to predict changing coverages and linebackers shifting, and ultimately being able to let the ball fly accurately and on time. Those are all skills Rosen has spent time working on this offseason in Miami."

 

So there you have it.  Per Flores, Rosen has a better arm than Fitz or Tua but "fell behind when it came to the processing part of football"

 

I grant you it doesn't help that the guy is on his 4th OC and 3rd head coach in his 3 years.  But he also, from what I can tell, has never shown any of that "spin your head around like Linda Blair in the exorcist" "WTF?" "how did he do that?" stuff that Josh Allen manages on a regular basis and gain him some extra slack.

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Lurker All Pro

Lurker

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7 hours ago, NoSaint said:

So 4 full playbooks and 5 OCs inside of 22ish months 

 

And not exactly a Murderes' Row of O-line help any place he played.   

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-units-entering-the-2020-nfl-season

 

32. MIAMI DOLPHINS
There wasn’t much debate about the worst offensive line in the league last year, as Miami ranked last in both pass and run blocking — only one of the seven linemen with at least 330 snaps graded above 60.0.

 

We could see as many as four new starters this season, though question marks still swarm.

 

To me, that will be the secret sause that get's Allen over the hump in Buffalo.  A young QB needs to be protected by a competent O-line while they learn how to play at this level.  Having a better WR group certainly doesn't hurt either...0:)

 

 

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davefan66 Veteran

davefan66

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We most likely will never know if Rosen can be a quality NFL QB.  Many very good players who ended up in the right situation may have not been as good elsewhere - look at Jerry Hughes.  Would Mahomes been as good as he is if he did land with the Bills?  He has an excellent offensive minded coach and a very good supporting cast, probably what helped him get to where he is so fast.

 

As for Rosen, kinda feels like Losman to me.  Has the physical attributes to be a quality NFL QB, but not the smarts to put it all together.

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