Michael Lombardi "Bills have a huge hole at QB".

[eball]

If I'm overly sensitive about Josh Allen so be it, but I'm sick and tired of projections that basically presume he will hold the Bills back.  Has there been a more polarizing QB prospect going into his third season who has performed as well as Josh has thus far?  He's not doing it the prototypical way but aside from his completion percentage he looks and acts the part of a winner.  I can not wait for this season to begin.

[billsbackto81]

Where's Adam Schein and Peter Schrager when you need them?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I’m certain this is going to evolve into a “Destroy Lombardifest”, but this line of thought will be out there until JA puts an end to it ....

 

Look, Allen was a project as a QB, we all know that.

But

1) Jackson wasn't drafted later in the 1st round because he was viewed as a sure bet....and I don't think we'll find the pre-2018 draft "hot takes" from Lombardi extolling Jackson as the superior QB choice.

2) It's pretty clear Jackson had phenomenal success last season because the Ravens tailored an offense to his strengths, and put all the pieces he needed around him (great OL, a whole stable of great TE, talent at WR) - and because teams were slow to tailor their defense to defend the Ravens offense.

 

I really don't think Allen has an obligation to put revisionist "shoulda drafted Jackson" draft history to rest.

 

 

[Happy]

Last year was the first full season that the Bills committed to Josh as the starter.  He deserves more time, and ex GMs should see this.

[WhoTom]

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

I remember that!

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, zonabb said:

You have multiple schools of thought on Allen, as follows:

Blind Homerism - He's awesome. People are mean to him. He's going to get better. The data on him is wrong. He's the outlier, he'll get better he just needs time. These are the folks that find every and all excuses to shine a positive light. They ignore thinks like this shred from the story that dont' bode well or help their argument "In Allen’s final four games (he only played for a quarter against the New York Jets in Week 17), he failed to post higher than 53% passing, including a 24-for-46 performance in the Houston playoff loss." These folks rely on faith and emotion rather than ration and data (past and present).

 

He'll Always Suck - those who want him to suck because they have been beating this drum since they drafted him and nothing he'll do positively will ever be mentioned, instead, a la Lombardi (if he's so smart, why is he a former GM?), cherry pick the data to support their agenda, as in the quote above and the complete unwillingness to recognize any improvement or give it any credence. 

 

Let's Wait and See - The in-betweeners. Those who recognize the flaws, see some improvement and think maybe, just maybe, he can be a really good QB. These people are the pragmatists and realists, those who tend to lean on the data that says he "can't improve because few if any have" while also leaning on his work that shows improvement. I would say these people also are certain he can't be a top 5 QB, but maybe a 5-12 kind of guy, good enough to keep the team competitive and in the playoffs and maybe with a ridiculous defense and conservative, mistake free offense, they can be the Dilfer Ravens with Allen. 

 

 

Let's Wait and See really means "I'm not willing to offer an opinion."  It's a yes or no question.  Do you think he'll make it as legitimate starter in the NFL?  Yes or No. 

 

 

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, Buff76ers said:

Honestly it seems like every time there is a player that the bills pass on in the draft then they always want to single out the Bills it seems as if the other many teams that passed on these players get a free pass but since its the Bills it is just a big huge mistake.  Taking John McCargo one pick before Gronk I believe, passing on Mahomes, passing on Jackson.  Jackson was the last pick in the draft right? Had to be for a reason.  Just my thoughts. 

 

Jackson was the last pick in the first round, not in the draft.  

 

I've never heard anybody claim that the Bills were stupid to take Jim Kelly while Dan Marino was still on the board.  However, if Kelly had busted (like Todd Blackledge who was taken ahead of him) or even been good but not great like Ken O'Brien, I think that the Bills would have been mocked for their pick and that Kelly would have always been unfavorably compared to Marino.

 

The Bills are under even more scrutiny for drafting Allen because they passed twice on QBs who have had immediate success in the NFL for a lesser product.  Trading away the pick that KC used to take Mahomes in 2017 and then using a fortune in talent and draft capital to move up to take Allen in 2018 when Jackson would have been available at the Bills original draft spot will haunt the Bills for the foresseable future unless Allen develops into a franchise QB who has a HOF worthy career.  I think anything less, especially if he fails to become a top tier QB, will always be part of the narrative of the Bills of the next decade and of Allen's career.  Very unfairly because he had no say in what team picked him, it will also be part of the narrative of Josh Allen's NFL career, too.

 

 

[SoTier]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Look, Allen was a project as a QB, we all know that.

But

1) Jackson wasn't drafted later in the 1st round because he was viewed as a sure bet....and I don't think we'll find the pre-2018 draft "hot takes" from Lombardi extolling Jackson as the superior QB choice.

2) It's pretty clear Jackson had phenomenal success last season because the Ravens tailored an offense to his strengths, and put all the pieces he needed around him (great OL, a whole stable of great TE, talent at WR) - and because teams were slow to tailor their defense to defend the Ravens offense.

 

I really don't think Allen has an obligation to put revisionist "shoulda drafted Jackson" draft history to rest.

 

 

 

Allen doesn't have an "obligation" to put it to rest, but unless he does so by becoming a great QB, it will likely follow him forever.  FTR, if Mayfield and Darnold don't develop into great QBs, it's  going to follow them as well, but what makes it worse for Allen is that the Bills also passed on another great QB in 2017.

[Sherlock Holmes]

7 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2020/06/buffalo-bills-have-huge-hole-at-quarterback-says-former-nfl-gm.html

 

“It happened it college. Remember coming out, Josh Allen was viewed as a quarterback, not an athlete. Today he’s viewed more as an athlete than a quarterback. And the other issue is he doesn’t run with it enough to utilize his skillset. I think that’s the big question with the Bills. I love the Bills team from front to center. I’d easily support them to win the East but I have real questions. You go back and watch that Patriot game in New England. There were guys open in that game … (Allen) just misses them. And then the second half of the Houston game, he just misses them. We can all hope he gets better at it, and I hope he does. But I’ve yet to see a quarterback improve significantly his accuracy. It’s a hard thing to do.”

 

Themse are fightin' words!!

[Chicken Boo]

Replace "hole" with "question mark" and he'd be accurate.  

[thebandit27]

55 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

As an NFL (effective) GM, Lombardi showed he had a great eye for QB talent?  ?‍♂️

Browns

Raiders

Is that Eric “Come on baby light my” Zeier?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

45 minutes ago, eball said:

If I'm overly sensitive about Josh Allen so be it, but I'm sick and tired of projections that basically presume he will hold the Bills back.  Has there been a more polarizing QB prospect going into his third season who has performed as well as Josh has thus far?  He's not doing it the prototypical way but aside from his completion percentage he looks and acts the part of a winner.  I can not wait for this season to begin.

For that “can’t improve completion percentage crowd” 

 

drew brees second year as a starter comp % 57.6 

Josh Allen Second year as starter comp % 58.8

 

Anyone thinking Brees as plagued with accuracy issues? 

 

People who work to get better do. Josh can be what ever kind of QB he is willing to work his tail off to be. 

[longtimebillsfan]

7 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I can't put much stock in a piece so badly written and edited.  I do not know if it's Lombardi's fault, Parrino's fault, or Parrino's editor's fault.  Looks like the work of a grade 9 student, written on the school bus on the way to school the morning the assignment was due.

Well said.

 

With Allen's work ethic and motivation, I am confident he will take a huge leap forward in year three.

 

Allen will always have his critics.  It is just the way some people are.

[Shaw66]

41 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills are under even more scrutiny for drafting Allen because they passed twice on QBs who have had immediate success in the NFL for a lesser product.  Trading away the pick that KC used to take Mahomes in 2017 and then using a fortune in talent and draft capital to move up to take Allen in 2018 when Jackson would have been available at the Bills original draft spot will haunt the Bills for the foresseable future unless Allen develops into a franchise QB who has a HOF worthy career.  I think anything less, especially if he fails to become a top tier QB, will always be part of the narrative of the Bills of the next decade and of Allen's career.  Very unfairly because he had no say in what team picked him, it will also be part of the narrative of Josh Allen's NFL career, too.

 

 

I think you are prejudging the situation you create.  You seem to be giving Mahomes and Allen HOF status right now, and they both are very far from the HOF right now. Let's see how they progress.  All three may have very nice careers, similar stats, win a Super Bowl or even two.  If that happens, people might complain that the Bills took the wrong guy, but no one will be listening. 

[marky]

First Allen's downside I will not mention here. In the NFL, you can't let what Hardin and Jackson do without a response. The NE QB cannot finish the season. Same with JJ Watt. That hit on Allen's elbow was late. Next is star power. NFL is about making money. There's a pedigree to this. Take an outsider, you're saying no to dozens of people who paid a lot to get there. Winning makes money. Stars get special treatment and more wins. Agents and other players will tell someone you don't do that to someone who makes us all money and they will drive them out of the league.

 

You're in the NFL. You know how to throw an accurate pass at that level. People there are freaks. To win you really need to be a merciless cheat, every little dirty trick you have to exploit full force. Leave the throwing mechanics for gym class.

[Rubes]

52 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Let's Wait and See really means "I'm not willing to offer an opinion."  It's a yes or no question.  Do you think he'll make it as legitimate starter in the NFL?  Yes or No. 

 

 

 

"Maybe a 5-12 kind of guy" sure sounds like a legitimate starter to me. Unless there are only 4-5 "legitimate starters" in the entire league.

 

[buffalobillswin]

Remember when Mike Lombardi said the eagles needed to fire their coach to have any shot at a Super Bowl. Then they won the Super Bowl with a backup two months later?

 

He’s a complete moron. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

7 hours ago, Greg S said:

Year 3 for Allen, Darnold, Mayfield. I would say its put up or shut up time for all three. I do think Josh showed solid improvement from year 1 to year 2. He definitely needs to take another step. I mentioned this before but he should have sat and held a clipboard his rookie year and watched Peterman/McCarron. But since the Bills ****ed up their QB situation so bad at the time Allen got thrown out there in a sink or swim situation. To make matters worse the Bills were a bad team with a horrible offense. Considering where he started from I think Josh has done a good job. Hopefully he takes the next step to being a solid QB this year and quiets his critics.

I agree with you.  Mayfield and Darnold have really showed little progress.  Yet, their fan base doesn't seem as paranoid about being a bust as some posters on this site seem to be about Allen.  The WR situation for Allen last season was improved but not great.  The addition of Diggs and hopefully some improvement from Knox (eliminate the drops) should help Allen.  Mayfield suffered from a below average o-line and some terrible coaching.  Even with that he hasn't looked like a number 1 overall draft pick (too many interceptions).  Darnold has very little talent around him and a head coach that is apparently in over his head.  Allen and Mayfield have the best circumstances for this season to improve; Darnold, not so much.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

I really don't care about the stats or the obvious warts in his game.  They are great clickbait and obvious low-grade fodder for lazy TV analysts, but here's the basics for me:

 

He's a leader - his teammates love and respect him and he's worked hard to get to that spot in just 2 years

He's a winner - he does what it takes to make plays both with his arm and legs.  Early career John Elway

He's shown great improvement on harnessing his raw talent and getting markedly better at the mental side of the game, including prep & game plans

He's incredibly fun to watch and easy to root for.  He has fun playing the game and leads with energy which his teammates feed off of

 

Is he Drew Brees?  Nope, and never will be.  So we should stop worrying about why not.

 

Enjoy the ride and whenever we have a season, it will be fun to watch

 

Just a note that for the first 3 years of his career, Drew Brees wasn't Drew Brees.  And arguably, the San Diego Chargers must have believed he wouldn't be, since they used their 1st round pick on Philip Rivers**

 

**OK, technically not but you know what I mean

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think you are prejudging the situation you create.  You seem to be giving Mahomes and Allen HOF status right now, and they both are very far from the HOF right now. Let's see how they progress.  All three may have very nice careers, similar stats, win a Super Bowl or even two.  If that happens, people might complain that the Bills took the wrong guy, but no one will be listening. 

 

Mahomes and Watson?

 

I agree they are far from the HOF at present but the success is undeniable and unlike Jackson, not entirely built on fleet feet and a specialized scheme.

Of course, I always point out Jackson, too, may develop - we believe Allen will, so why can't Jackson?

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

"Maybe a 5-12 kind of guy" sure sounds like a legitimate starter to me. Unless there are only 4-5 "legitimate starters" in the entire league.

 

I agree.  A QB who is regularly in the top 12 is a legitimate starter.  May fall out once in a while, but generally in to the top 12 and occasionally in the top 5, that's a legit starter.  Might never win a Super Bowl. 

 

If Allen is one of those and Mahomes goes to the Hall of Fame, yeah, some people might remember that, but if Allen's been a legit starter, nobody will bet all that excited about it.  I'm sure there are some Falcons fans who cherry pick drafts and talk about what the Falcons might have done if they hadn't taken Ryan.  Stafford in Detroit.  If Allen turns out like that, I'm happy.  I'm expecting more, both because I want more and because I think actually is a HOF candidate, but legit starter I'm not going to be complaining about. 

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Mahomes and Watson?

 

I agree they are far from the HOF at present but the success is undeniable and unlike Jackson, not entirely built on fleet feet and a specialized scheme.

Of course, I always point out Jackson, too, may develop - we believe Allen will, so why can't Jackson?

Whoops.  Actually I meant Mahomes and Jackson, but Watson is the third to go on the list. If any of those guys can have ten years like they've started, those are HOF players. All of them make it Allen turns into an average, then the Bills did some bad QB drafting. But pull those guys down a rung and move Allen up a little.  Say one makes the HOF and the others are solid guys, I'm not whining that the Bills missed the HOF guy.   

[Capco]

7 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

I can't put much stock in a piece so badly written and edited.  I do not know if it's Lombardi's fault, Parrino's fault, or Parrino's editor's fault.  Looks like the work of a grade 9 student, written on the school bus on the way to school the morning the assignment was due.

 

That was my first impression.  I could write a better article in my sleep on the exact same position.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

**OK, technically not but you know what I mean

My brain hurts!  ?

[Putin]

7 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

Is anything he said not true? The 24th ranked offense in the league but they have a franchise quarterback? 

Agree 100% !!! 
Until we find a QB who’s still on his rookie contract who can win 10 games and take this team to the playoffs there’s no reason to get excited...

GOOO BILLS !!!

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, Putin said:

Agree 100% !!! 
Until we find a QB who’s still on his rookie contract who can win 10 games and take this team to the playoffs there’s no reason to get excited...

GOOO BILLS !!!

 

We should be mad that he didn’t win at least 11 games, but he messed up and had locked up his playoff spot already. 

 

I’m not giving him the click. As long as Josh keeps making progress, I’m happy. I think he’ll do that.

 

 

.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Augie

[Hapless Bills Fan]

56 minutes ago, buffalobillswin said:

Remember when Mike Lombardi said the eagles needed to fire their coach to have any shot at a Super Bowl. Then they won the Super Bowl with a backup two months later?

 

That was priceless.

 

Quote

He’s a complete moron. 

 

It certainly wasn't a shining moment to showcase his football acumen. 

 

I'm waiting for the links where he extolled the virtues of Lamar Jackson prior to the 2018 draft.  Certainly the GMs and scouts of 30 teams other than the Bills didn't "get the flick"

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I don't think we'll find the pre-2018 draft "hot takes" from Lombardi extolling Jackson as the superior QB choice.

I don’t understand what you’re getting at here.  It sounds like you’re suggesting that, unless Lombardi advocated drafting Jackson early in the first round he can’t now, with 2 years of additional information, acknowledge that Jackson is better than the highly touted QBs from that class.  
 

I didn’t know who Tom Brady was in 1999.  Now, I think he’s better than Chad Pennington.  What does one have to do with the other?

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

Is anything he said not true? The 24th ranked offense in the league but they have a franchise quarterback? 

I am thinking the part of putting the Baltimore QB in Josh Allen's place and then all of a sudden they would have a QB is definately not true.

 

Baltimore's QB relies on being an athlete even more then Josh does

[billsbackto81]

He mentions that the Bills picked Allen over Jackson and now have to deal with the inaccuracies. Hey Mike! You know what other teams picked a QB before Jackson? 

EVERYONE!!!!!!

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Putin said:

Agree 100% !!! 
Until we find a QB who’s still on his rookie contract who can win 10 games and take this team to the playoffs there’s no reason to get excited...

GOOO BILLS !!!

Well said. I ? what you did. ?

[John from Riverside]

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Allen doesn't have an "obligation" to put it to rest, but unless he does so by becoming a great QB, it will likely follow him forever.  FTR, if Mayfield and Darnold don't develop into great QBs, it's  going to follow them as well, but what makes it worse for Allen is that the Bills also passed on another great QB in 2017.

 

Josh has nothing to do or tied to anything in 2017.  

[Putin]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am thinking the part of putting the Baltimore QB in Josh Allen's place and then all of a sudden they would have a QB is definately not true.

 

Baltimore's QB relies on being an athlete even more then Josh does

We all saw ( more then once ) how well L Jackson performed once he couldn’t rely on the running game , when he actually had to stay in the pocket and throw the ball !! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

55 minutes ago, Billl said:

I don’t understand what you’re getting at here.  It sounds like you’re suggesting that, unless Lombardi advocated drafting Jackson early in the first round he can’t now, with 2 years of additional information, acknowledge that Jackson is better than the highly touted QBs from that class.  
 

I didn’t know who Tom Brady was in 1999.  Now, I think he’s better than Chad Pennington.  What does one have to do with the other?

 

Not at all.  I'm suggesting that unless Lombardi and other teams recognized Jackson's quality prior to the 2018 draft, it's disingenuous to retroactively second guess the Bills draft decisions.  Lombardi is quoted as saying: "But they picked Josh Allen over Lamar and you’re gonna have to deal with some of these inaccuracies,” Lombardi said.

 

It's one thing for Lombardi to say "I now think Jackson is a better QB than Allen, Darnold and Mayfield"

It's another thing for Lombardi to say "But the Jets picked Darnold over Jackson, and they're gonna have to deal with his fumbles" (were that the thing holding the Jets back).  And Jackson, while he had a stellar completion percentage, had gaps in his QB repetoire of throws last year which several teams exploited to slow the offense and which the Titans utilized to shut him down.

 

Your analogy would be to saying "If the Jets had drafted Brady, they could have won a couple Championships.  But the Jets picked Pennington over Brady, and they're going to have to deal with his noodle arm".  It's one thing for you to say "I now think Brady is better than any other QB who was drafted in 2000 and one of the GOAT".  It's another thing for you to be revisionist and second-guess the 2000 draft board for the 32 teams who passed on him 6 times.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

51 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Josh has nothing to do or tied to anything in 2017.  

 

Right, I mean, how far back do we take this? 

"Oh noes the Bills passed on Tom Brady 6x in 2000!"

"We passed on Drew Brees in 2001!" 

"And 2005 - Aaron Rodgers - Damn their eyes!"

 

I wanted them to draft a QB.  Couldn't believe they didn't.  But I get it, McDermott was never going to hitch his QB wagon to Whaley (on his way out the door).

 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Josh has nothing to do or tied to anything in 2017.  

 

Allen will always be linked to Patrick Mahomes because the Bills passed on him in 2017.  It's not fair for Allen but that's the way people will think of him unless he develops into a good enough QB to make his own narrative.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Allen will always be linked to Patrick Mahomes because the Bills passed on him in 2017.  It's not fair for Allen but that's the way people will think of him unless he develops into a good enough QB to make his own narrative.

That’s BS.  You can play that stupid rationale thought with most anyone.  

[JESSEFEFFER]

I am getting Brain Paralysis by Analytics Website Analysis so I will not vouch for this but there's this from Twitter and SIS:

[Ralonzo]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Let's Wait and See really means "I'm not willing to offer an opinion."  It's a yes or no question.  Do you think he'll make it as legitimate starter in the NFL?  Yes or No. 

 

I've hedged my bet, didn't like the selection initially. But in viewing I'm cursing Daboll's play calling an order of magnitude more than Allen's execution. To my eye test, he's looking the part of a plus NFL QB more often than not, and is trending upward. He reminds me more of early Favre than early Locker. I want to believe.

[mykidsdad]

10 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

Is anything he said not true? The 24th ranked offense in the league but they have a franchise quarterback? 

I think Lombardi only watched the games he mentioned. Josh wasn't asked to do much. Our offense wasn't great around him. He is a solid middle of the pack QB and with this defense that is good enough. Plus, he is only improving. Good things to come....

[Albany,n.y.]

There's a huge hole in the pie Mrs. Lombardi baked and set down on the table.