Buffalo716 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Agreed. It’s why Barkley isn’t good enough and why I worry about Fromm that said what separates guys with big arms from guys with big arms who become good QBs is touch. Mahomes has an absolutely cannon but it’s those touch passes he makes that makes him so good. Of course and also alot of the mental side of the game is what separates players But you can't ignore the howitzer attached to Josh's shoulder. It's generational. The way the ball spins out of his hand and the release And velocity are incredible And he certainly possesses enough accuracy by looking at his intermediate numbers. And that's not even talking about how dangerous he is on the run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 #18 is fair i think 15th is fairer i dont see him getting to top 5......but boy oh boy...that would be nice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Of course and also alot of the mental side of the game is what separates players But you can't ignore the howitzer attached to Josh's shoulder. It's generational. The way the ball spins out of his hand and the release And velocity are incredible And he certainly possesses enough accuracy by looking at his intermediate numbers. And that's not even talking about how dangerous he is on the run Oh for sure he was one of the strongest arms I’ve ever seen. I do think consistent mechanics are really difficult to learn at this stage of your career and there will be a lot of ups and downs. But I’ve never questioned his physical skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Oh for sure he was one of the strongest arms I’ve ever seen. I do think consistent mechanics are really difficult to learn at this stage of your career and there will be a lot of ups and downs. But I’ve never questioned his physical skills. Pat Mahomes had really bad footwork coming into the league and he's fixed it for the most part I think Allen has good games and bad games with footwork When games get rough all players revert back to bad tendencies in mechanics, including Aaron Rodgers The key is trying to maintain consistent mechanics throughout the course of a game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Niner fans are losing their minds on Twitter seeing Josh ranked over Jimmy G ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Wow! Daniel Jones ranked above (4) #1 overall QB picks. Darnold, Goff, Winston ( granted Burrow hasn't played yet) and only 1 spot below Mayfield. Was he that impressive or were the others that bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 5 hours ago, MJS said: Didn't Allen set a combine record for most velocity on the football? Don't think Mahomes has a stronger arm. But there probably isn't a big difference. Edit: Looked it up. Allen threw 62 MPH which was a combine record. Mahomes only threw 55, which seems only above average. Combine velocity numbers are now proven bumpkin. I'd have Tua who hasn't thrown a pass above about half of the guys Simms has ahead of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 48 minutes ago, papazoid said: #18 is fair i think 15th is fairer i dont see him getting to top 5......but boy oh boy...that would be nice he will be there after game 1 this year 16 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said: Niner fans are losing their minds on Twitter seeing Josh ranked over Jimmy G ? Jim dawg is not good. Not good at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffstream Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 18 seems fair. Hoping for a big year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Combine velocity numbers are now proven bumpkin. I'd have Tua who hasn't thrown a pass above about half of the guys Simms has ahead of him. Can you explain what you mean? What does "proven bumpkin" mean in regards to velocity? 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Of course and also alot of the mental side of the game is what separates players But you can't ignore the howitzer attached to Josh's shoulder. It's generational. The way the ball spins out of his hand and the release And velocity are incredible And he certainly possesses enough accuracy by looking at his intermediate numbers. And that's not even talking about how dangerous he is on the run Part of me wonders if this is part of why our receivers drop the ball so much. I caught passes from a college QB once and he put so much spin and velocity on the ball it was very difficult for me to catch, compared to the high school QB's I was used to catching passes from. The spin was actually more difficult to deal with compared to how hard it was thrown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, MJS said: Can you explain what you mean? What does "proven bumpkin" mean in regards to velocity? Part of me wonders if this is part of why our receivers drop the ball so much. I caught passes from a college QB once and he put so much spin and velocity on the ball it was very difficult for me to catch, compared to the high school QB's I was used to catching passes from. The spin was actually more difficult to deal with compared to how hard it was thrown. Probably less skilled receivers like Zay Jones The spin and rotation on those balls from pro quarterbacks are extremely hard to handle . It's a huge jump from high school to college, and an even bigger jump to the pros That usually what separates high-end wide receivers vs depth. Not always speed or size, or even route running. But consistent hands catching NFL level throws with heat But all the best wide receivers would prefer a tight spiral with some heat.. where they can catch the ball and do something with it... versus a lollipop that gets them destroyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 7 hours ago, Don Otreply said: Allen’s arm strength has helped him out on multiple occasions, completing many tight window passes throughout the season, in fact it’s part of why the got the team to the playoffs. This ranking is quite accurate. It will be higher in a few months of course.... Go Bills!!! That throw to beasley from the endzone against Dallas not one other QB could make. Don't care what anyone says. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 hours ago, MJS said: Can you explain what you mean? What does "proven bumpkin" mean in regards to velocity? Part of me wonders if this is part of why our receivers drop the ball so much. I caught passes from a college QB once and he put so much spin and velocity on the ball it was very difficult for me to catch, compared to the high school QB's I was used to catching passes from. The spin was actually more difficult to deal with compared to how hard it was thrown. I’m assuming Gunner is referring to how Deshaun Watson threw at less velocity than Nate Peterman and yet one is Deshaun Watson and the other is, well, Nate Peterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 6 hours ago, DallasMac said: It saddens me that you used Foles as an example instead of Allen. He did say WRs, Allen is a TE. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 If Chris Simms did this chart in his playing days where would he rank himself? BTW apparently he and Kyle Shanahan have matching tattoos. The fact that Kyle coaches in SF is not lost on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 25 minutes ago, Ralonzo said: He did say WRs, Allen is a TE. More like a FB, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 25 minutes ago, vincec said: More like a FB, IMO. There aren't too many 6'5" full backs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Jared Goff at #24 is what really sticks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) Rivers 17, Brees 16, Brady 15. It appears he does a PFT version and then a different one for his Unbuttoned podcast. He does impersonations of his dad which are pretty funny. He favors strong armed, playmaking QBs but thinks QBs get too much credit and QBs in the 20s could win the Super Bowl. Called the 2015 version of Peyton Manning the worst to ever win one (or maybe that 2015 Manning was the worst starting QB of that year.) Edited June 12, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 8 hours ago, papazoid said: #18 is fair i think 15th is fairer i dont see him getting to top 5......but boy oh boy...that would be nice I see Josh once he's more polished being an 8-12 ranked qb most of his career. This year (3) I see him around 15. Next year he explodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 6 hours ago, MJS said: Can you explain what you mean? What does "proven bumpkin" mean in regards to velocity? They are not a very good test of arm strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: They are not a very good test of arm strength. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, MJS said: Why? Because if anyone wants to seriously argue that Will Grier has a stronger arm than Drew Lock then I have some magic beans for them. Deshaun Watson's arm supposedly scored below the minimum threshold of combine velocity for successful QBs. It is number I pay absolutely zero regard to. I don't think it is a test for anything. Josh Allen has a huge arm. So does Patrick Mahomes. Whatever the combine velocity numbers say. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 4 hours ago, MJS said: There aren't too many 6'5" full backs... This is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Because if anyone wants to seriously argue that Will Grier has a stronger arm than Drew Lock then I have some magic beans for them. Deshaun Watson's arm supposedly scored below the minimum threshold of combine velocity for successful QBs. It is number I pay absolutely zero regard to. I don't think it is a test for anything. Josh Allen has a huge arm. So does Patrick Mahomes. Whatever the combine velocity numbers say. It means Watson had an off day. Generally the numbers are fairly accurate for those QB's that have big arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 hours ago, MJS said: It means Watson had an off day. Generally the numbers are fairly accurate for those QB's that have big arms. I am sorry I disagree. When I look at those numbers I see random all over the map. They are the first thing to start by ignoring IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Someone in his Twitter feed asked about Cam Newton and he said he's coming up, so that means Newton is gonna be ranked ahead of some other guys that, based on last season, he wasn't better than. I don't know what criteria he's taking into account here, but the last two seasons Cam has played like caca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, blacklabel said: Someone in his Twitter feed asked about Cam Newton and he said he's coming up, so that means Newton is gonna be ranked ahead of some other guys that, based on last season, he wasn't better than. I don't know what criteria he's taking into account here, but the last two seasons Cam has played like caca. I'd guess that he must have some reason to think Cam is now healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 9:05 AM, thebandit27 said: 18 seems about right to me. There’s probably an argument to slot him a notch or two higher, and there’s reason for anyone to knock him down a few slots as well. 18 is right. Plenty of room to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Sims always has been a JA supporter. I've never understood why a certain portion of "analysts" has been soo reluctant to recognize Josh has some of the best tools to come into the league in a long time, things you can't teach like size, athleticsm, raw arm strength. It just feels like there's a sizable and vocal portion who decided he was going to be a bust before they ever really watched him much and won't give him an ounce of credit for anything. Feels like if he was the exact same prospect coming out of a football factory college the entire narrative would be different about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 hours ago, blacklabel said: Someone in his Twitter feed asked about Cam Newton and he said he's coming up, so that means Newton is gonna be ranked ahead of some other guys that, based on last season, he wasn't better than. I don't know what criteria he's taking into account here, but the last two seasons Cam has played like caca. Newton was having the best year of his career before he got hurt two years ago. If he is healthy, watch out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I’m surprised that Rivers is ahead of him. Considering that Brady is 15th and Brees isn’t in the top 10, Rivers should be outside of the top 20 based on last year. I think he’s set up really well with the colts OL, 2 nice RBs and decent enough WR unit.....but allen should be higher based on how much he improved from 18-19 and the addition of diggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 6 hours ago, blacklabel said: Someone in his Twitter feed asked about Cam Newton and he said he's coming up, so that means Newton is gonna be ranked ahead of some other guys that, based on last season, he wasn't better than. I don't know what criteria he's taking into account here, but the last two seasons Cam has played like caca. How so? He was solid in 2018. Had a QB rating of 94.2. Allen was 85.3 last year, and their rushing numbers were similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: Newton was having the best year of his career before he got hurt two years ago. If he is healthy, watch out Similar to Dak, people want act like Cam is just average when in reality they’re exactly what Josh aspires to be. Big, strong guys who came into the league as good runners but who struggled with accuracy throwing from the pocket. Cam maintained that style and has been successful but got beaten to a pulp. Dak turned himself into a true pocket passer who can still really run when it’s there but who doesn’t rely too heavily on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) He's 20-something as a passer and the 2nd best scrambler. I hope he can be a top 10 passer some day, but I'm concerned. I respect Simms' opinions and I like listening to him. He says accuracy can be fixed, but I've never seen that happen before and Josh can't seem to hit the deep ball with any regularity often missing by several yards. Even his short range accuracy was ranked 37th for the past season. If he becomes the 1st QB to go from bottom to near top in accuracy and the game slows down for him I will be elated. 3 hours ago, Billl said: Similar to Dak, people want act like Cam is just average when in reality they’re exactly what Josh aspires to be. Big, strong guys who came into the league as good runners but who struggled with accuracy throwing from the pocket. Cam maintained that style and has been successful but got beaten to a pulp. Dak turned himself into a true pocket passer who can still really run when it’s there but who doesn’t rely too heavily on it. 1 other point -- Dak has an excellent OL and one of the top 3 RB's in the NFL. Edited June 13, 2020 by GreggTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 13 hours ago, Billl said: Similar to Dak, people want act like Cam is just average when in reality they’re exactly what Josh aspires to be. Big, strong guys who came into the league as good runners but who struggled with accuracy throwing from the pocket. Cam maintained that style and has been successful but got beaten to a pulp. Dak turned himself into a true pocket passer who can still really run when it’s there but who doesn’t rely too heavily on it. Someone on here actually argued that Cam wasn’t a good pick for the Panthers. Lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 15 hours ago, Billl said: Similar to Dak, people want act like Cam is just average when in reality they’re exactly what Josh aspires to be. Big, strong guys who came into the league as good runners but who struggled with accuracy throwing from the pocket. Cam maintained that style and has been successful but got beaten to a pulp. Dak turned himself into a true pocket passer who can still really run when it’s there but who doesn’t rely too heavily on it. Bills fans: Cam - MVP, Heisman, nothing soecial lamar - MVP, Heisman, no way he keeps it up Dak - 5,000 yards, great W-L record, not worth it Allen - future star 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 22 hours ago, Billl said: How so? He was solid in 2018. Had a QB rating of 94.2. Allen was 85.3 last year, and their rushing numbers were similar. His arm seems to be shot. Even when be could've played last season they rolled with Kyle Allen and then let Cam go this year. Also drafted Will Grier. I just think the injuries have really caught up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 16 hours ago, blacklabel said: His arm seems to be shot. Even when be could've played last season they rolled with Kyle Allen and then let Cam go this year. Also drafted Will Grier. I just think the injuries have really caught up with him. That’s last season. You said he’s played poorly for the last 2 seasons, and that isn’t the case at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Billl said: That’s last season. You said he’s played poorly for the last 2 seasons, and that isn’t the case at all. Gee whiz, Billllllll. Yes, he was decent in 2018 but the Panthers still sat home for the playoffs. The injuries looked like they really caught up to him last season. He was missing open guys and the ball didn't have the same zip it usually does. He's kinda been inconsistent over his entire career, so perhaps I mistook 2018 for a different season. Glad we got the Cam Newton Security Squad in you to keep everyone in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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