That's No Moon Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: It would be bad form for the NFL to be pushing for one now. And that has stopped them exactly when previously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Oil less than $1 (that's correct - ONE DOLLAR) a barrel right now. Oil futures have even gone NEGATIVE for like the first time ever. This must have a lot to do with Pegula's financial woes. Thank you MSM for scaring the crap out of everyone over the virus - now Buffalo could lose one or both franchises over the economic woes - crazy. I don't think will happen, but we need to open the country back up and SOON! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: This article seriously ruined my day. Yup...just rained on my draft day parade...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: And that has stopped them exactly when previously? Well you have to admit this is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) I had a long post written up, but it boils down to this: LOTS of very wealthy, very powerful people want the Pegulas to fail. Simply put, they screwed up the NFL's dream to go international in Toronto. It doesn't matter if it was a good idea. the NFL destroyed the Chargers brand and turned them into a semi-pro team with 30,000 fans at games because the NEEDED 2 teams in LA at once when there had been none for years. If it weren't for the Pegulas the Bills would be in Toronto right now. If you want to believe that the Toronto businessmen whose stated dream was to bring an NFL team to Toronto were going to buy Bon Jovi the Bills and he was going to move to Tonawanda and buy a canal boat and devote his life to running the Bills in Buffalo then I don't know what to tell you.... But he said it on Howard Stern! LOL Edited April 20, 2020 by TheFunPolice 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 29 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The solution is to hire the right people, give them the resources and get out of the way. Also, I’m seeing that they are losing $40M-$50M on the Sabres? I haven’t read the article but if that’s true it’s a MASSIVE indictment on them. I worked for a team that finished with one of the worst records in the league, had just traded away the greatest player in franchise history and was owned by the NBA. We sold more new season tickets BEFORE the lottery was completed than any team in the league. It was about having a plan and executing it. Anyone that says, “winning is all that matters” has absolutely ZERO clue what it takes to be successful. You build elite staffs so that you are insulated as best as you can be from team performance. That’s what the Bills have done for 25+ years. That’s why Russ Brandon was good at his job. They were a successful operation regardless of the record. Of course it is easier in football but that’s why I used my own experience. It can be done but you need the right people steering the ship. Obviously Botterill is a nightmare but so is Kim. Go get a real GM to run hockey operations and go get a real president to sit over PSE and/or the Sabres. There are a zillion people more qualified to do the job. She had some of them there!! Dave Wheat should have been given total autonomy to run those operations after RB left. That would have been the best move. Empower the right people and get the hell out of the way!! There's now way they're losing $40-50M on the Sabres. And what is the difference in the organizational structure between the Bills, who are successful now, and the Sabres? Are Terry and/or Kim telling the Sabres who they have to draft and sign or how the coaches coach, and leaving the Bills to McBeane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 The Pegulas get $600 million selling the Sabres. I'de be shocked if it doesn't happen in the next 5 years if things continue as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, Lurker said: Roboman. Do you have an Athletic subscription? TG gave Kim a full interview, allowing her to go on record and explain her side. I thought that was quite remarkable, actually. How often do you get to see a real time rebuttal or response like this? It's not one sided at all, IMO... The questions he asked were incredibly confrontational and completely shaped to make the company look bad. Question: "Many [former employees] also expressed disappointment that the One Buffalo culture is practiced but not preached. They expressed feelings taken for granted, overworked because of continual downsizing, poor communication flow and inter-departamental disorder." The first part of this question is stating facts. A fair question to ask here would be "how would you respond to these feelings?" or even "why might these feelings be accurate/inaccurate?" NOPE. Graham's question violates rules of journalism ethics asking a loaded question (framing allegations as true and so that any answer is seen as confirming those facts; often taught as "were you drunk when you beat your wife"). Graham's Question: "What is being done to eliminate these issues within your properties?" This is loaded. It presumes any allegation brought by the fired employees is true, presents hypocrisy as a given, overworked people were overworked specifically because of downsizing and assumes disorder and poor communication as facts. Sorry, but there is nothing fair about that question. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said: The Pegulas get $600 million selling the Sabres. I'de be shocked if it doesn't happen in the next 5 years if things continue as is. And if/when that happens, say "sayonara Sabres." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: You should apply for a job with the Pegulas. I was a journalist and found it almost always to be true. It's par for the course with that guy. My recommendation is not to give him the time of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 48 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Why can't it be both? It probably is both. But the Athletic's focus is on one side, the one that damages the reputation of the team owners the most. Have you read this article? https://buffalonews.com/2020/04/19/buffalo-bills-buffalo-sabres-terry-and-kim-pegula-nfl-nhl-oil-prices/ Take a look and tell me if this looks like good journalism to you as well? If only they gave Kim Pegula the chance to make a statement for her side. For shame. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The solution is to hire the right people, give them the resources and get out of the way. Also, I’m seeing that they are losing $40M-$50M on the Sabres? I haven’t read the article but if that’s true it’s a MASSIVE indictment on them. I worked for a team that finished with one of the worst records in the league, had just traded away the greatest player in franchise history and was owned by the NBA. We sold more new season tickets BEFORE the lottery was completed than any team in the league. It was about having a plan and executing it. Anyone that says, “winning is all that matters” has absolutely ZERO clue what it takes to be successful. You build elite staffs so that you are insulated as best as you can be from team performance. That’s what the Bills have done for 25+ years. That’s why Russ Brandon was good at his job. They were a successful operation regardless of the record. Of course it is easier in football but that’s why I used my own experience. It can be done but you need the right people steering the ship. Obviously Botterill is a nightmare but so is Kim. Go get a real GM to run hockey operations and go get a real president to sit over PSE and/or the Sabres. There are a zillion people more qualified to do the job. She had some of them there!! Dave Wheat should have been given total autonomy to run those operations after RB left. That would have been the best move. Empower the right people and get the hell out of the way!! I agree with all of that. I read the article. What I came away with was the only entity that PSE owns that makes money is the Bills and based on the current circumstances this probably will be a rough financial year for them. The Sabers apparently lose a lot of money, I was surprised that they have high TV ratings. The other businesses are what? Professional lacrosse, minor league hockey, record label, restaurants and a hotel. I was in the restaurant business and dabbled in hotels, they are hard businesses. All of these businesses will certainly be severely affected by the pandemic. PSE apparently had hold over employees from prior regimes. It also appears, that like a lot of businesses, middle management was bloated. I’m not really surprised people were fired. I know from experience, having been a manager and then an owner, my reaction to financial issues were significantly different as an owner. I don’t have an opinion on Tim Graham, however this line is telling, “Terry and Kim Pegula, meanwhile, have paused construction of their new superyacht in Amsterdam.” Is this pertinent? Seems to me it is not, he doesn’t go on to explain it he just throws it out there. Is he insinuating that they have financial problems? It could be that the optics of building a yacht while firing is not great, or maybe they just don’t like the design. The way that he did this is a passive aggressive shot. To me it is indicative of a an agenda. i 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Brown Eye Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsfootball Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, chris heff said: I don’t have an opinion on Tim Graham, however this line is telling, “Terry and Kim Pegula, meanwhile, have paused construction of their new superyacht in Amsterdam.” Is this pertinent? Seems to me it is not, he doesn’t go on to explain it he just throws it out there. Is he insinuating that they have financial problems? It could be that the optics of building a yacht while firing is not great, or maybe they just don’t like the design. The way that he did this is a passive aggressive shot. To me it is indicative of a an agenda. Or, it might have more to do with the optics of asking the State and County to pony up $400M for a new stadium/renovation? Bad timing... Pic of his current yacht - Top Five - which is for sale: Edited April 20, 2020 by buffalobillsfootball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said: Or, it might have more to do with the optics of asking the State and County to pony up $400M for a new stadium/renovation? Bad timing... Why does it have to be anything more than an example of them not spending money where they planned on spending it? They are Billionares, the article is painting a picture of their financial concerns. It’s very much related. Joe and Susie were building a beautiful home, their business was doing really well, suddenly do to no fault of their own their business began to suffer. They halted the beautiful home and decided to stay where they were at til things improved. For us it’s a home, for Billionares it’s a super yacht. I don’t think any of it is that alarming, only a small percentage of people will avoid any financial interruptions from this. Edited April 20, 2020 by CommonCents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, Doc said: There's now way they're losing $40-50M on the Sabres. And what is the difference in the organizational structure between the Bills, who are successful now, and the Sabres? Are Terry and/or Kim telling the Sabres who they have to draft and sign or how the coaches coach, and leaving the Bills to McBeane? That’s just the number that I’ve seen on social media. As I said, I haven’t read the article. The Bills and Sabres are totally different business models. You need to look at each team as 2 sides. There is a business operations side and a team operations side. There is little to no crossover. Beane and McDermott run the football operations side for the Bills. Botterill and Krueger run the hockey operations. The business operations staffs are probably about 100 deep. I think that’s about what we were as an NBA team. Typically NBA, MLB, and NHL are a little heavier staffed because there are elements of local broadcast that don’t exist in the NFL. There are also many more games so ticket sales are a bigger piece of the revenue pie. Kim runs the business side. She’s ultimately responsible for those 100+ employees and 10 or so different departments. That’s kind of how this thing got sideways. What background and qualifications did she have to oversee a $41M ticketing department? What about negotiating a new media deal? What is her background in selling advertising and sponsorship? You see where I’m going with this. There are a zillion, seasoned sports executives with the education and experience to take this on. She is not one of them. The Pegula’s have a right to put whomever they want in whatever role that they want but shouldn’t be surprised when it inevitably fails. It is not complicated to turn the ship around. The problem is that the captain of the ship needs to realize that it is better in someone else’s hands. That’s the tricky part. The best thing that Terry and Kim could do is to go find an elite executive, throw a bunch of money at them and give them full autonomy. I don’t think that’s likely to happen but that’s the answer. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsfootball Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, CommonCents said: Why does it have to be anything more than an example of them not spending money where they planned on spending it? They are Billionares, the article is painting a picture of their financial concerns. It’s very much related. Joe and Susie were building a beautiful home, their business was doing really well, suddenly do to no fault of their own their business began to suffer. They halted the beautiful home and decided to stay where they were at til things improved. For us it’s a home, for Billionares it’s a super yacht Very well could be... I'm not here to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That’s just the number that I’ve seen on social media. As I said, I haven’t read the article. The Bills and Sabres are totally different business models. You need to look at each team as 2 sides. There is a business operations side and a team operations side. There is little to no crossover. Beane and McDermott run the football operations side for the Bills. Botterill and Krueger run the hockey operations. The business operations staffs are probably about 100 deep. I think that’s about what we were as an NBA team. Typically NBA, MLB, and NHL are a little heavier staffed because there are elements of local broadcast that don’t exist in the NFL. There are also many more games so ticket sales are a bigger piece of the revenue pie. Kim runs the business side. She’s ultimately responsible for those 100+ employees and 10 or so different departments. That’s kind of how this thing got sideways. What background and qualifications did she have to oversee a $41M ticketing department? What about negotiating a new media deal? What is her background in selling advertising and sponsorship? You see where I’m going with this. There are a zillion, seasoned sports executives with the education and experience to take this on. She is not one of them. The Pegula’s have a right to put whomever they want in whatever role that they want but shouldn’t be surprised when it inevitably fails. It is not complicated to turn the ship around. The problem is that the captain of the ship needs to realize that it is better in someone else’s hands. That’s the tricky part. The best thing that Terry and Kim could do is to go find an elite executive, throw a bunch of money at them and give them full autonomy. I don’t think that’s likely to happen but that’s the answer. I remember you saying this when she took over and you got flamed a bit. I’m still with you on this one! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, FireChans said: If only they gave Kim Pegula the chance to make a statement for her side. For shame. Main story Kim rebuttal 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: I stopped at Tim Graham. Hacks gonna hack. The Athletic is filled with outstanding sports journalism, Graham Included. Your entitled to your opinion of course, but to not read something because Graham’s name is attached is short sighted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MJS said: Being a journalist does not give you some special insight, in my opinion. You are just a liable to biases, misconceptions, and mistruths as everyone else. AND you have an agenda to be constantly telling a story even if there isn't one, because that's your job. Couldn’t have said it better myself. They often write a story because they’re required to... not because they’re passionate or knowledgeable on the subject. Then they move on and forget about it all. I have journalists friends, I’ve dated journalists, I’ve dated people in news. They all admit it when they’re off the record. They care more about the attention they get than anything else. I’m generalizing folks, not ALL journalists are like this... I’m speaking on the 20+ friends I have who are journalists, and their perception of the industry they work in. Edited April 20, 2020 by JGMcD2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: But the two stories are 180-degrees apart in focus. One focuses on the business, the other on the personal. Indeed. Both are legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Bless your heart. We got ourselves an Acosta fanboy here! Bless your heart. We got ourselves a Trump cultist here! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Couldn’t have said it better myself. They often write a story because they’re required to... not because they’re passionate or knowledgeable on the subject. Then they move on and forget about it all. I have journalists friends, I’ve dated journalists, I’ve dated people in news. They all admit it when they’re off the record. They care more about the attention they get than anything else. I’m generalizing folks, not ALL journalists are like this... I’m speaking on the 20+ friends I have who are journalists, and their perception of the industry they work in. If that is true you should advise them to get out of the business. If you are in it for attention in particular. Absolutely atrocious motivation. Of course you are not passionate about every subject you write about. Not every story grips you - that is the same as any job. What should drive and motivate is the pursuit of truth regardless of the subject. Maybe the culture in America is different, I don't know. But that is not the way the majority of journalists in the UK think or work despite the low reputation of the profession. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 And on the flip side, how many jobs are there without the Pegulas buying all those teams and making that investment in the region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwnyer Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Sounds like a Jerry Sullivan hack job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, Xwnyer said: Sounds like a Jerry Sullivan hack job I mean it is comprehensible, with paragraphs and grammar so it can't be Jerry. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I mean it is comprehensible, with paragraphs and grammar so it can't be Jerry. Can't be Sully. It has actual interviews in it... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, Lurker said: Can't be Sully. It has actual interviews in it... Yea in fairness Sully was a columnist not a reporter... his job was more just to spout his opinion rather than source information, provide facts or delve into the details. I just still expect columnists to be able to.... you know.... write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 41 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Main story Kim rebuttal If she wanted more screen time she should have played ball. You can’t complain about media narratives and then make zero effort to control said narratives. If that’s what the Pegulas (and you) are looking for, that’s asking for the media to carry their water for them. And I doubt Timmy can be bought off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 12 minutes ago, Doc said: And on the flip side, how many jobs are there without the Pegulas buying all those teams and making that investment in the region? This of course is true and I don't read this article as saying "the Pegulas are terrible they should get lost." I read it as they are facing some challenging financial times in their businesses away from the Bills but including the Sabres, this was already the case before coronavirus and while that isn't entirely their fault they haven't done a great job as leaders of communicating that message sensitively to staff who fear for, and in some cases have lost, their jobs. I think the sense you get as I said to @Kirby Jackson is that so far the Bills have managed to be slightly sheltered from the worst of that but there is a risk if the situation deteriorates there may be knock on effects. Just now, ScottLaw said: “Nothing to see here. Shut it down!” ? Couldn’t read the whole article due to not being a member but is it any surprise the Pegulas don’t have a ***** clue what they are doing with the Sabres..... please just let the football people do their job and keep the Sabres toxicity away from the Bills. As a non-hockey fan the bolded is frankly all I care about. I'd prefer they sell the Sabres but that's easy for me to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: Yea in fairness Sully was a columnist not a reporter... his job was more just to spout his opinion rather than source information, provide facts or delve into the details. I just still expect columnists to be able to.... you know.... write. IMO, columnists are most interesting when they're curious and include information / insights they learn from people they interview. Sully's downfall (to me) was that it was always just his closed loop opinion--I never learned anything new or got a new perspective I didn't have before. And BTW, I think he can write--he's just lazy / cynical and choses to phone it in too many times... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Hack goes and talks to fired/laid off employees. Said fired/laid off employees have beef and whine about "nepotism" to Hack. Hack writes salacious piece because, as I said, hacks gonna hack. When you have a goal (no pun intended) and then look for people to substantiate it you do not call it good journalism. A journalist looks at both sides of issue and lets reader make own opinion. It is like asking a NRA advocate whether guns help with safety - the writer will not look at accidental shootings, kids killing themselves or playmates, maniacs attacking schools, etc but only cases where people defended themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 You think they got lucky? Remember all the talk of them hiring Polian as a consultant? I believe he or someone else in the know advised them on what to do. This is the only major decision they got right with either franchise and it came shortly after those rumors. Really lucky or.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane nelson Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Currently the Pegulas are the only anchor keeping the Bills in Buffalo. If something bad happens to them, business or tragedy, the Bills could easily be back up for sale and this time around, they will be gone. This is the reason why this diehard fan feels we need another anchor, and that is a new stadium with a long term lease. Clearly this is not the time to discuss a new stadium, and who knows, maybe they will just need a field to play on in the new normal. But if we want the Bills to be here for another 50+ years we need a new facility with funding tied to the team being in WNY Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 hours ago, MJS said: I like BBC. At least they are always professional, even if they do sometimes present biased material. I read a couple of extremely unprofessional articles posted by Washington Post a couple years ago and that really soured my view of them. New York Times is pretty good. I want facts presented in an objective and professional manner. That's what I look for in the news media. ? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: If that is true you should advise them to get out of the business. If you are in it for attention in particular. Absolutely atrocious motivation. Of course you are not passionate about every subject you write about. Not every story grips you - that is the same as any job. What should drive and motivate is the pursuit of truth regardless of the subject. Maybe the culture in America is different, I don't know. But that is not the way the majority of journalists in the UK think or work despite the low reputation of the profession. Oh wow. This could actually be a really cool discussion about the difference between the UK and US when it comes to journalism! I’d would honestly love additional insight... discussion... because I feel like there is a lot that doesn’t transfer over one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 35 minutes ago, FireChans said: If she wanted more screen time she should have played ball. You can’t complain about media narratives and then make zero effort to control said narratives. If that’s what the Pegulas (and you) are looking for, that’s asking for the media to carry their water for them. And I doubt Timmy can be bought off. I totally don't get this take. And you just said Graham can't be bought off...yet you suggest Kim Pegula would get more screen time if she "played ball?" Curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. K Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Well, my take: You(pse employees) work for Mcdonalds. You have a manager(McBeane) you really like. The company lays you off during a pandemic (a little too specific but roll with it). Morale through the whole building would be shook as people would be worried about their livelihood being threatened. If that manager who talks about working as a team to get the right fries with the right burger and right drink to make the customer happy is watching these lay offs he has a in house perspective that can see negative and positive effects with all decisions. If McBeane thinks its a problem and is addressing it publicly its got to be a big problem. McBeane and Co. have been amazing with their none answers and having to check the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Indeed. Both are legitimate. Yes but both paint completely opposite pictures and generate different emotions. Edited April 20, 2020 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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