Beane Draft Day Aggression - Trade up for Delpit

[Mark80]

Grant Delpit is a top 10 talent.  He battled through some injuries this season which seems to be impacting his stock big time.  He is now showing as late 1st / early 2nd in most projections.  I still think he is a stud and is getting severely underrated draft stock wise.  If I'm Beane and I see him sliding to the end of the first, I am heavily considering trading up for him.  I know, I know, we have hyde, we have poyer....but for how long?  Delpit is a game changing S IMO who makes plays down the field and can also play in the box and make plays too.  I love his flexibility and play making ability.  Plus, by the accounts I have seen at least, he is a tremendous locker room presence.

 

I think we are in the position to draft best player available over needs at this point, a huge advantage in building and maintaining a team.  If I can package my 2 and a mid-rounder for him I'm doing it all day long.  

 

Edit for confusion:  I'm not saying give up the farm to move back into the first.  I'm saying determine what you are willing to give up for him (maybe 2 and 4, maybe 2 and 3), and start making offers towards the end of the first.  Keep offering the teams on the clock that value until he is picked or someone accepts it.  No, I do not want them trading a first next year or anything crazy like that.  Thanks.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Mark80

[dorquemada]

I've had a feeling that BB was going to go secondary in the 2nd round.  If he can trade up for this guy, great.  I'd rather get a premium talent and fewer overall picks than camp fodder

[BarleyNY]

How far up do you think #54 and a mid rounder will get us?  To get back into the first round it would cost us 54 and next year’s first.  Even 54 and 86 would only get us to 38 per the usual trade chart.  I highly doubt we’d do any better than that in this draft as early round two is a pretty sweet spot. 

 

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=Buf

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

He fell to our pick in one of my draft network mock simulations. 
 

it’s possible he’s there for our pick, but I would trade up if he gets into the 40s
 

Also, yesterday Shenault fell to us in round 2 and Jonathan Taylor was there for us in the 3rd In the same mock. 

 

[qwksilver]

13 minutes ago, Chemical said:

He fell to our pick in one of my draft network mock simulations. 
 

it’s possible he’s there for our pick, but I would trade up if he gets into the 40s
 

Also, yesterday Shenault fell to us in round 2 and Jonathan Taylor was there for us in the 3rd In the same mock. 

 

This is why some people dislike mock drafts. This just won't happen.

[DJB]

You wanna trade up from round 2 into round 1 for a safety? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by DJB

[YoloinOhio]

Gross. He’s not even a 1st rd talent. He should have been wearing a ski mask when he accepted the Thorpe award 

Edited April 13, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[TigerJ]

Everybody's entitled to an opinion.

[RyanC883]

36 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

I've had a feeling that BB was going to go secondary in the 2nd round.  If he can trade up for this guy, great.  I'd rather get a premium talent and fewer overall picks than camp fodder

 

I do agree with getting a premium talent and fewer overall picks than camp fodder, but Delpit seems to be a guy whose play has been sliding on a stacked D.  He seems more "ball-hawk" than "ball-hawk" and tackler.  I'd rather trade-up for McKinney, Chinn or Dugger.  Although, I'd be interested in LSU fan @Kirby Jackson opinion on Delpit.  

7 minutes ago, DJB said:

You wanna trade up from round 2 into round 1 for a safety? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd trade higher in the 2nd for a safety, or McKinney in the bottom 1st.  

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

19 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

This is why some people dislike mock drafts. This just won't happen.

agreed. But who would’ve thought we could draft Oliver and Metcalf last year without trading up at all?

[Mark80]

10 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I do agree with getting a premium talent and fewer overall picks than camp fodder, but Delpit seems to be a guy whose play has been sliding on a stacked D.  He seems more "ball-hawk" than "ball-hawk" and tackler.  I'd rather trade-up for McKinney, Chinn or Dugger.  Although, I'd be interested in LSU fan @Kirby Jackson opinion on Delpit.  

 

I'd trade higher in the 2nd for a safety, or McKinney in the bottom 1st.  

 

Again, he played with an ankle issue all last year.  And despite that, his tape still was pretty good.  And if you don't think he's a tackler then you haven't really looked into him at all or watched him play.  I saw him line up on the line next to the DE, shed blocks, and tackle running backs at the line or even behind it a number a times.  His tape from 2017 and especially 2018 is outstanding.  Thats why he was projected as a top 5 pick early in this season.  He had no flaws whatsoever.

[qwksilver]

6 minutes ago, Chemical said:

agreed. But who would’ve thought we could draft Oliver and Metcalf last year without trading up at all?

I thought we had a shot at Oliver. I don't think many people had Metcalf sliding that far. I get it, I'd love to see him at 54 let alone 86....Some one will slide there's always someone.

[Mark80]

20 minutes ago, DJB said:

You wanna trade up from round 2 into round 1 for a safety? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I start looking at my options in late first, yes.  I know what I want to pay and I keep trying (not going beyond that) if he keeps falling until someone picks him or takes my offer.

 

Please tell me what positions we are allowed to consider in the first round oh wise one.  I sure as hell would take Derwin James in the first round and Delpit was seen as a better college performer and draft prospect until his ankle injury.

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

Grant Delpit is a top 10 talent.  He battled through some injuries this season which seems to be impacting his stock big time.  He is now showing as late 1st / early 2nd in most projections.  I still think he is a stud and is getting severely underrated draft stock wise.  If I'm Beane and I see him sliding to the end of the first, I am heavily considering trading up for him.  I know, I know, we have hyde, we have poyer....but for how long?  Delpit is a game changing S IMO who makes plays down the field and can also play in the box and make plays too.  I love his flexibility and play making ability.  Plus, by the accounts I have seen at least, he is a tremendous locker room presence.

 

I think we are in the position to draft best player available over needs at this point, a huge advantage in building and maintaining a team.  If I can package my 2 and a mid-rounder for him I'm doing it all day long.  

Maybe we can trade up to #8. That sounds like a superb idea!!!!!

I mean look at all those playoff and Super Bowl Appearances we had from drafting Whitner at 8!!!

[Kirby Jackson]

On 4/13/2020 at 9:22 AM, RyanC883 said:

 

I do agree with getting a premium talent and fewer overall picks than camp fodder, but Delpit seems to be a guy whose play has been sliding on a stacked D.  He seems more "ball-hawk" than "ball-hawk" and tackler.  I'd rather trade-up for McKinney, Chinn or Dugger.  Although, I'd be interested in LSU fan @Kirby Jackson opinion on Delpit.  

 

I'd trade higher in the 2nd for a safety, or McKinney in the bottom 1st.  

Going into last year Delpit was looking like a top 10 pick. He has pretty good size and physicality. He’s big enough to play the big nickel (which McDermott loves). 
 

Last year he was nowhere near the player that he was the year before despite him stealing the Thorpe award from Okudah. Delpit played through an injury all year which certainly impacted his play. If you are getting the 2018 version you are getting a potentially great player. If you’re getting the 2019 version, meh. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[wppete]

Stay put at # 54 a very good player will drop to is there. I’m confident about that. 

[Mark80]

5 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Maybe we can trade up to #8. That sounds like a superb idea!!!!!

I mean look at all those playoff and Super Bowl Appearances we had from drafting Whitner at 8!!!

 

Way to take it to a completely illogical extreme.  Nice job Bill.  You can pick any draft position and any player position and cherry pick a busted pick.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Mark80

[Bob in STL]

I am not in favor of trading up for a safety and giving up additional picks in rounds 3 or 4. 

 

I think we can really get help our offense by staying put.  Shenault or another top talent could fall to us in round 2, and there definitely will be a quality RB for us in round 2 AND/OR round 3.  There still could be a strong OT prospect in rounds 2/3 or a strong OG prospect in round 3/4.   Since our line is pretty good now and just starting to gel with a second full year together we could develop these players slowly,  the way winning teams do. 

 

If we do go defense in rounds 2/3 I think we need to look at an infusion of youth at OLB/DE (edge), or if a CB falls then that could be the pick. 

 

I think a Safety can be addressed in later rounds, like 5/6. 

 

Thankfully, Beane gets to make these decision and not me, but it is fun to play GM at this time of year. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Bob in STL

[DJB]

30 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

I start looking at my options in late first, yes.  I know what I want to pay and I keep trying (not going beyond that) if he keeps falling until someone picks him or takes my offer.

 

Please tell me what positions we are allowed to consider in the first round oh wise one.  I sure as hell would take Derwin James in the first round and Delpit was seen as a better college performer and draft prospect until his ankle injury.

 

I have multiple issues with your idea.

 

1. The cost to move up from 54 into the 1st is going to be very costly in draft capital . Which means the other holes we have won't be filled via the draft this year. 

 

2. Why are we moving up for a safety when it isn't a need whatsoever? Hyde and Poyer are both playing at a high level and both signed beyond this year.

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by DJB

[whorlnut]

All my faith in Beane would be dismissed in one fell swoop if they graded up for a safety. No. Thanks. 

[T master]

I don't think there is any chance of Beane trading back into the first for any player this draft the team with what he has done is in pretty good shape & although Beane is a wheeler dealer there would have to be generational game changing player there like a Mack for him to use the type of draft capital it would cost to get back into round 1 & IMHO i don't see it happening !! 

[IgotBILLStopay]

we don’t have the draft capital to trade up into the first round. Maybe get up to #40 at most. I doubt Delpit will be available beyond #40.  That being said Delpit is certainly a stud and worthy of being a first round pick (so I am not disagreeing with you OP).

[Bill from NYC]

4 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

Way to take it to a completely illogical extreme.  Nice job Bill.  You can pick any draft position and any player position and cherry pick a busted pick.

I'm sorry if my post was a bit short.

I like Delpit as a player and agree with you that injuries slowed him down last season.

That said Mark, I have my own wounds if you will from the Bills wasting picks on the secondary. Watching Whaley stupidly trade away draft picks (and hurt the team while doing so) also left a scar. Taking a DB instead of Mahomes or Watson was also painful, and it doesn't matter how good Tre White is. Who won the Super Bowl? Who did not? We already traded away a #1. Now what? Should we give up our #1 in 2021? I really don't think so.

Trades such as this have proven to be a losing strategy.

Jmo, Peace.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[hjnick]

This isn't directly toward Delpit, but why would we even want a Safety in the 2nd round when we have 2 great Safeties now??? Do we need 3?

 

Sorry, I just haven't understood the fascination for an early round safety.

[Mark80]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

 

I have multiple issues with your idea.

 

1. The cost to move up from 54 into the 1st is going to be very costly in draft capital . Which means the other holes we have won't be filled via the draft this year. 

 

2. Why are we moving up for a safety when it isn't a need whatsoever? Hyde and Poyer are both playing at a high level and both signed beyond this year.

 

 

 

 

Don't get stuck on the late first aspect of the idea.  Say Beane values him as worth his #2 and #3 pick (as an example only).  He starts offering that to teams towards end of first.  If they pass and dont take him, then offer the same thing for the next pick until someone accepts it or he is taken.  Eventually it will get into the second round I'm sure in this scenario as most likely no one would accept that deal in the 1st.  Its about determining what they think he is worth and offering that, not offering what they think the pick they are trading up for is worth necessarily.  Hope that makes sense.

 

I'm moving up because players age quickly.  Just because we have 2 decent safeties now, doesn't mean we will re-sign them when they run out.  It gives us ability to let either of them walk after their deals.  Plus, he is plug and play right now in a bigger nickel set up so he still has value immediately.

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I'm sorry if my post was a bit short.

I like Delpit as a player and agree with you that injuries slowed him down last season.

That said Mark, I have my own wounds if you will from the Bills wasting picks on the secondary. Watching Whaley stupidly trade away draft picks (and hurt the team while doing so) also left a scar. Taking a DB instead of Mahomes or Watson was also painful, and it doesn't matter how good Tre White is. Who won the Super Bowl? Who did not? We already traded away a #1. Now what? She we give up our #1 in 2021? I really don't think so.

Trades such as this are a proven losing strategy.

Jmo, Peace.

 

I wouldn't want to be offering a 1st next year or anything like that.  Its creating a value for him (as I said in another reply) and seeing if you can get a buyer as he drops.  So, if they think he is worth a 2 and a 4 start offering that to teams towards late first.  Sure, they will not accept most likely, but then you move on to the next team picking until either he is picked, or your offer (at your value of him) is accepted.  We offer up value of the player in our minds, not necessarily the perceived value of the pick.  To me, a 2 and a 4 for him is well worth it if you can get a team to accept that before he is taken.

[Putin]

3 hours ago, wppete said:

Stay put at # 54 a very good player will drop to is there. I’m confident about that. 

This ^^^^ I also believe there will be quality players available in the 3rd as well , with that said I wouldn’t mind using our 4th , and 5th to maybe move back in to 3rd again !!! 

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, wppete said:

Stay put at # 54 a very good player will drop to is there. I’m confident about that. 

 

A good WR or a good DE will be there at pick 54. Let the draft come to you. 

[DJB]

59 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

Don't get stuck on the late first aspect of the idea.  Say Beane values him as worth his #2 and #3 pick (as an example only).  He starts offering that to teams towards end of first.  If they pass and dont take him, then offer the same thing for the next pick until someone accepts it or he is taken.  Eventually it will get into the second round I'm sure in this scenario as most likely no one would accept that deal in the 1st.  Its about determining what they think he is worth and offering that, not offering what they think the pick they are trading up for is worth necessarily.  Hope that makes sense.

 

I'm moving up because players age quickly.  Just because we have 2 decent safeties now, doesn't mean we will re-sign them when they run out.  It gives us ability to let either of them walk after their deals.  Plus, he is plug and play right now in a bigger nickel set up so he still has value immediately.

 

I wouldn't want to be offering a 1st next year or anything like that.  Its creating a value for him (as I said in another reply) and seeing if you can get a buyer as he drops.  So, if they think he is worth a 2 and a 4 start offering that to teams towards late first.  Sure, they will not accept most likely, but then you move on to the next team picking until either he is picked, or your offer (at your value of him) is accepted.  We offer up value of the player in our minds, not necessarily the perceived value of the pick.  To me, a 2 and a 4 for him is well worth it if you can get a team to accept that before he is taken.

 

I understand the grade aspect of it but to me it's not a premium position that Beane has mentioned before. He has said Tackle, DE, QB, WR are of premium position. 

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, DJB said:

 

I understand the grade aspect of it but to me it's not a premium position that Beane has mentioned before. He has said Tackle, DE, QB, WR are of premium position. 

 

This team is fairly set at all or most starting positions. What this team needs is youth and depth at certain positions (Secondary, DE, WR, RB, and LB) the team has the ability to address a good chunk of these needs with their existing picks. If you trade up to add a more premium talent you are losing the ability to build depth and get younger on your roster. Given that the team only has 6 picks and needs to get younger at several positions it is better that they stand pat and just target quantity over a big eggs in one basket trade up. 

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Mark80 said:

Grant Delpit is a top 10 talent.  He battled through some injuries this season which seems to be impacting his stock big time.  He is now showing as late 1st / early 2nd in most projections.  I still think he is a stud and is getting severely underrated draft stock wise.  If I'm Beane and I see him sliding to the end of the first, I am heavily considering trading up for him.  I know, I know, we have hyde, we have poyer....but for how long?  Delpit is a game changing S IMO who makes plays down the field and can also play in the box and make plays too.  I love his flexibility and play making ability.  Plus, by the accounts I have seen at least, he is a tremendous locker room presence.

 

I think we are in the position to draft best player available over needs at this point, a huge advantage in building and maintaining a team.  If I can package my 2 and a mid-rounder for him I'm doing it all day long.  

 

Edit for confusion:  I'm not saying give up the farm to move back into the first.  I'm saying determine what you are willing to give up for him (maybe 2 and 4, maybe 2 and 3), and start making offers towards the end of the first.  Keep offering the teams on the clock that value until he is picked or someone accepts it.  No, I do not want them trading a first next year or anything crazy like that.  Thanks.

 

Beane already is down a 4th in 2021 and he is not trading a 2021 day 2 pick and i don't see him bundling this years 2nd with a 3rd or 4th for anyone.

If Beane does any big move up from pick #54 it would only happen if he trades a player currently on the team that he feels will not

make it into the 2021 season.  It would be a Star, Murphy, Kroft type guy and if he could pull that off he would be a witch!

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Beane already is down a 4th in 2021 and he is not trading a 2021 day 2 pick and i don't see him bundling this years 2nd with a 3rd or 4th for anyone.

If Beane does any big move up from pick #54 it would only happen if he trades a player currently on the team that he feels will not

make it into the 2021 season.  It would be a Star, Murphy, Kroft type guy and if he could pull that off he would be a witch!

 

I do feel like Beane might trade an O-line player for a 2021 mid-round pick if there is a camp or late round pick that performs better than one of the vets. A Spencer Long or Ty type might fetch a 4thor 5thround pick from an O-line thirsty team. 

[ColoradoBills]

14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I do feel like Beane might trade an O-line player for a 2021 mid-round pick if there is a camp or late round pick that performs better than one of the vets. A Spencer Long or Ty type might fetch a 4thor 5thround pick from an O-line thirsty team. 

 

I can see that happening too.

[Rockinon]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

This team is fairly set at all or most starting positions. What this team needs is youth and depth at certain positions (Secondary, DE, WR, RB, and LB) the team has the ability to address a good chunk of these needs with their existing picks. If you trade up to add a more premium talent you are losing the ability to build depth and get younger on your roster. Given that the team only has 6 picks and needs to get younger at several positions it is better that they stand pat and just target quantity over a big eggs in one basket trade up. 

Agree with most of this. Adding youth is also important because no team can afford to pay everyone when contracts come up. Sometimes the best way to prepare for the future is to stack good players behind good players. Yes, we all ready have two very good safeties, but will Buffalo be able to pay both their worth when their contracts are up? We have some very good WRs and some decent RBs.  The same would apply there too. Or DE.....we have two of the best at disrupting the QB though they are getting a bit long in the tooth. Need some youth behind them. Need a plan for the future.

 

Don't really agree with the trade up scenarios though.  Maybe after the 2nd round but not before.

[GreggTX]

I'll be miles beyond disappointed if Beane does anything this stupid. He still needs to prove he can draft good players in the top 2 rounds and this would just be another misfire. We've been a wild card team because of great coaching and an easy schedule, but Beane still has much to prove.

[billsfan89]

16 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

Agree with most of this. Adding youth is also important because no team can afford to pay everyone when contracts come up. Sometimes the best way to prepare for the future is to stack good players behind good players. Yes, we all ready have two very good safeties, but will Buffalo be able to pay both their worth when their contracts are up? We have some very good WRs and some decent RBs.  The same would apply there too. Or DE.....we have two of the best at disrupting the QB though they are getting a bit long in the tooth. Need some youth behind them. Need a plan for the future.

 

Don't really agree with the trade up scenarios though.  Maybe after the 2nd round but not before.

 

I could see a minor trade up a few spots in round 3 or 4 but overall I think McBeane just lets the draft come to them before they make a trade up. Get me a DE, WR and RB (in that order) and add another depth piece to the secondary or LB corps in round 5 and I think this team is set up nicely. 

[Happy]

Great, trade up for a DB....no thanks.

[wppete]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

A good WR or a good DE will be there at pick 54. Let the draft come to you. 

 

Or a good CB will be there.

[Rockinon]

6 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I could see a minor trade up a few spots in round 3 or 4 but overall I think McBeane just lets the draft come to them before they make a trade up. Get me a DE, WR and RB (in that order) and add another depth piece to the secondary or LB corps in round 5 and I think this team is set up nicely. 

Agree, except for the bolded.  The order is going to be dictated by how the draft falls and who they like. I do believe that DE is a big concern because there is no youth there, but if one of the top WRs, RB, or even CBs fall to our 1st pick, you have to take them.

[John from Riverside]

If we trade up for somebody.....I hope its a guy like Mims or a RB

[billsfan89]

36 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

Agree, except for the bolded.  The order is going to be dictated by how the draft falls and who they like. I do believe that DE is a big concern because there is no youth there, but if one of the top WRs, RB, or even CBs fall to our 1st pick, you have to take them.

 

I agree value is a concern you can't reach for need. However that is my hierarchy of needs where I think they should have their needs highest on their radar. I hope the draft shakes out that way.