Kobe Bryant: Killed in Helicopter crash (update: NTSB prelim. report)

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

A big thanks to Chandler for closing down that thread on the main boeard before I saw it and did something that was gonna get me banned.  It was definately going to happen.

 

I am a Kobe Bryant fan and forever will be (not just because I am a Laker fan for life..but just because the mentality for which he lived his life was truth to me.....and he lived it.......the work eithic.....the ability to take pain.....the abillity to just make it happen....yes....laker fan.

 

I mourn for him and I mourn for his familly who also lost a beautiful daughter.....so much ahead of her.  I also mourn for the others that were on that helicopter today.

 

Kobe Bryant did not live a perfect life....he made some mistakes when he was younger.....I truly dont think he forced himself on the girl...what he did do was have sex out of wedlock which I also think is bad.   I lived through a horrible marriage and never ONCE cheated on my then wife.

 

But I also believe in second chances....and while I did not know Kobe personally I truly believe he was being sincere on the father/husband thing  as he as getting on in life.

 

The world is not a brighter place now that they are gone......

 

…..nicely done John...brought back memories of Dale Ernhardt Sr, Clemente, John Denver, etc......absolutely despicable and repulsive to see a WaPo female reporter writing about Kobe's rape case now in the midst of this tragedy....what the hell is wrong with people?...SMH...…….

Edited January 27, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Hapless Bills Fan]

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/kobe-bryant-dies-in-helicopter-crash/h_f1c1e497af4e26ee5b422eacbcaaf779

 

some details about the flight path and clearance of the helicopter.

 

VFR weather minimums vary with the type of controlled airspace and for airplane vs helicopter but were probably 3 miles visibility, 152 (one thousand feet above, 500 feet below, 2000 feet horizontally from clouds) in that area. 

 

sVFR for a helicopter would probably be 1/2 mile or 1 mile visibility, clear of clouds. 

 

The cruise speed of that chopper is about 3 miles/min; of course, minimum airspeed speed for a helicopter is "hover", but the point is, you don't get a lot of time to sort out where you are or figure out a plan if you're flying in low vis conditions.

"Later in the flight, the pilot apparently asked for “flight following,” a service where controllers are in regular contract with an aircraft. The controller was recorded telling the pilot “2 echo x-ray, you’re still too low level for flight following at this time.” That could mean the helicopter was too low to be seen on Air Traffic Control radar. "

 

The reported comment about the pilot being "too low" has nothing to do with terrain clearance and everything to do with the minimum altitude at which air traffic control can provide radar services.  "Flight following" under VFR (visual flight rules) does not provide terrain clearance and pilots learn that in pilot kindergarden.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/kobe-bryant-death-nine-victims-142936510.html

 

Sounds like Gianna and 2 teammates, the parent(s) of all 3 girls, and an assistant coach

 

Edit: Yes, and the pilot, he did perish too

[Gordio]

17 hours ago, Steptide said:

Maybe, but it was a long time ago and is pretty inconsiderate to his family to talk about that right now in the face of tragedy. Nobody is perfect and he seems to have grown and turned his life around. Past is the past. Forgive and forget 

 

You might be thinking differently if it was your daughter he did that too.

 

I am not here to bash the guy for past allegations, but the accolades is a bit over the top too.  This guy was an accused rapist, I know he got off but...… I am not going any farther.  

 

From all accounts, he sounded like a likeable person & a good father to his 4 daughters.  Basketball wise, he was one of the all-time greats, I don't think there is any debating that, definitely one of the top 10-15 players to ever play the game.  

 

I am with a few of the posters that question whether traveling by chopper is the way to go.  I have been to LA a few times, I know the traffic is beyond brutal, it just seems like these things go down all the time.  Not sure if the rewards out weigh the risks.  

 

RIP Mamba

 

[707BillsFan]

14 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Calabasas?  An hour from Disneyland?  Bwahahaha. You NorCal people are so cute. It takes an hour to get to Disneyland from the Anaheim exit off the 5 freeway.  ?

 

You can afford a copter you take a copter. 

You SoCal people are so annoying .... when I typed that, I used Google Maps and that's the time that it spit out. 57 miles, just over an hour. 

[T master]

WOW ! Amazing athlete, father, & all around person he will definitely be missed by all his life touched but his legacy will live on forever  - RIP Kobe & Gianna !! 

[Captain Hindsight]

This story affected me more than I thought it would. I am not an NBA fan. I typically only watch the finals, but Kobe was so much above just the sport itself. He was an Icon. I can still remember anytime someone took a shot in gym class in HS yelling "Kobe!" while shooting. He had just retired and by all accounts was just a good man, father and person. I can't help thinking of all the things that will not be accomplished because Kobe left us too soon.

 

Learning more about him and his daughter and now the rest of the victims. This is just one of those stories that gets worse the more you read. Just awful

 

RIP to all

[RochesterRob]

21 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I hate this take.  I mean some people are just bigger than that.  More transcendent than that.

 

And how can anyone write about what SHOULD be on the TSW main wall with a straight face when there are tons of Antonio Brown threads on there who is not a Bill, never was a Bill, and just a deplorable human being?

 

Move AB to OTW then.  It’s astonishing how some of you can’t handle the idea of a Kobe pinned thread for even just a couple days to honor one of the greatest competitions in all sports history.  What impact does that make on your life that you have to spend all this time arguing against it.  You don’t have to f-Ing open it.

 

Its sad at how petty some of you are being over such a tragic situation.  Honestly, between the thread Chandler shut down and how this thread is going down, it makes me question whether or not I even want to be part of this community anymore.  To see how petty people want to be over something so tragic is just disappointing.

  The problem is that transcendent is a relative term.  I would argue that William Shatner is a transcendent figure as he inspired careers including those who developed new technology that many use today including cellphones and I-pods.  Having said that when the time comes for Shatner his passing should not take up space on TSW.  It should go here and a mod can determine how long it is pinned for.

 

  I agree with most of the rest of your post.  Once it was determined that AB was not joining the Bills any post-Bills possibility AB threads should have been shut down.  I don't know that the site here needs to be expanded to deal with things like Kobe passing but if cost is not an issue there should be an around the NFL board here to discuss other NFL teams and their personnel.

Edited January 27, 2020 by RochesterRob

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

 

Transcendent.

 

[GoBills808]

Moment of silence before Real Madrid training session. Biggest club in the world.

[Doc Brown]

16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Y’all, I’m really struggling with this. Kobe was never my guy but the tragic nature of it all has me in a weird place. I cried today (keep in mind I cry a lot). I just can’t wrap my head around it and for an empathetic, analytical person that’s really hard. I’m not capable of shrugging my shoulders and saying, “such is life.” Today is horrible

It hit me harder than I thought as he in my mind was too big to die.  It's pry for the more selfish reason of having to come to grips with my own mortality.  

[row_33]

only $1,000-plus for nosebleeds seats at Staples for the Clips at Lakers game tomorrow 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

I'm still in shock.  I wasn't even a huge NBA fan, or Laker fan, but Kobe was just simply a legend.  I really can't believe it.

[Alphadawg7]

This story hit me hard.  First, I lost my dog named Kobe after 10 1/2 years of having him.  Saved him 1 hour before they were going to put him down too just because he had been at the kennel 3 weeks.  
 

Never thought we would be saying goodbye to the guy I named him after just 2 months later.  But that’s not really what got me...it was hearing about his daughter being in there and the other young girls and parents on board.

 

I was 18 years old and my brother was a day away from turning 7 when my father was murdered and he was about the same age as Kobe.  It’s hard losing a parent so young, especially when they are so close to you.  Heart breaks for his wife and other daughters who will all have different levels of grief as well as the families of the other souls lost.  
 

My brother was 7, so it hit him differently as he mostly grew up just not remembering him as well given he was pretty young.  I had to learn how to be a man fast and deal with one of my biggest hero’s, motivators and inspirations being gone at the same time.
 

Coincidentally, that was November 1994, and he was a massive 49er fan.  That’s is why to this day that was the only year I ever rooted for the 49ers to win the Super Bowl, and that was the last time they won it...a few months later behind Steve Young.  
 

Now 25 years later the Niners are back in the SB and I will be once again rooting for them for the first time since in honor of him.  And in my $100 per square SB Pool I ran, I bought 2 squares.  One says “Kobe” which was originally in honor of my dog but now has much deeper meaning...and the other was the 94th square and has my dads name on it.  

 

Last night went to Lakers HQ for the Kobe vigil and was honored to pay tribute and leave a message on the canvas tribute wall they put up with his pic to be signed.  Got to thank him for all the memories and most importantly the inspiration myself and so many others have taken away from his work ethics and most importantly dedication to his kids and family.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[DrDawkinstein]

An incredibly detailed and almost scientific witness account

 

 

Sounds like it was clouds and fog, and the pilot may have flown slowly but directly into the hill.

Edited January 27, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[Chef Jim]

5 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I can think of no better place than this thread for you to share your perceived shortcomings of Kobe Bryant as a player, others to share their feelings about Kobe Bryant as a person, and for others to essentially say "who cares"?

 

Makes sense.  

 

And my post covered all three!  What do I win? 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And my post covered all three!  What do I win? 

 

You get to give everyone free advice.

[Chef Jim]

4 hours ago, 707BillsFan said:

You SoCal people are so annoying .... when I typed that, I used Google Maps and that's the time that it spit out. 57 miles, just over an hour. 

 

And again so cute.  57 miles from Calabassas to Disneyland in an hour???  You've never been down here have you?   Not that the traffic is great up there but I did get a ticket for doing 85 in a 65 (after hitting my brakes while doing 90) at 5pm on a FRIDAY on the 101 just north of SFO.  

 

And seeing I've lived in both SoCal and NorCal the Northerners win the annoying trophy...by far.   

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Normally, I would give a person a pass at a time like this but you keep looking to come back to bully me and I am not bending knee to you in worship of your ideals.  

 

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

If you consider being questioned on your incessant participation in a thread you claim to not care about 'being bullied' you might want to consider spending less time on the internet.

 

Please stop this crappy back and forth right now. Youre both embarrassing yourselves in a RIP thread.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You get to give everyone free advice.

 

I can do that.   Just don't return the favor.  Because I appreciate the advice but......oh you know how it goes. 

[DrDawkinstein]

23 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

An incredibly detailed and almost scientific witness account

 

 

Sounds like it was clouds and fog, and the pilot may have flown slowly but directly into the hill.

 

So anyways, whats everyone think of this account? Pretty crazy.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

An incredibly detailed and almost scientific witness account

 

 

Sounds like it was clouds and fog, and the pilot may have flown slowly but directly into the hill.

 

Wow, great witness.  Very methodical and precise.

 

If his account is correct, it does sound like CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) due to a dropping deck (lowering clouds). 

 

Pilot Basics 101: 3 Cs in those circs (Climb, Confess, Comply).  Yeah, you might get an action, but your goal in those circs is to stay alive to testify at your hearing.

 

The pilot was in contact with the relevant ATC, because he had asked for VFR flight following (radar services) and been rejected due to poor coverage, so he was all set to yelp for help.  If this witness is correct, instead he lost his damned life and took 8 trusting pax with him because he was too much of a (*^*&%^$^#to do what he oughtta.

 

***** ass.  <-----the pilot, though RIP, not the witness

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wow, great witness.  Very methodical and precise.

 

If his account is correct, it does sound like CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) due to a dropping cloud deck (lowering clouds). 

 

Pilot Basics 101: 3 Cs in those circs (Climb, Confess, Comply).  Yeah, you might get an action, but your goal in those circs is to stay alive to testify at your hearing.

 

The pilot was in contact with the relevant ATC, because he had asked for VFR flight following (radar services) and been rejected due to poor coverage, so he was all set to yelp for help.  If this witness is correct, instead he lost his damned life and took 8 trusting pax with him because he was too much of a (*^*&amp;%^&#036;^#to do what he oughtta.

 

***** ass.

 

 

He's a sound engineer with a TWA hat on. We got the perfect person in the perfect place to tell the story.

 

Said a guy who has been there 17 years never saw cloud cover that low.

 

Rotors stopped immediately.

 

I appreciate his addition that it all happened so quickly that those aboard probably didnt suffer.

[Chef Jim]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

He's a sound engineer with a TWA hat on. We got the perfect person in the perfect place to tell the story.

 

Said a guy who has been there 17 years never saw cloud cover that low.

 

Rotors stopped immediately.

 

I appreciate his addition that it all happened so quickly that those aboard probably didnt suffer.

 

The highlighted is the one bit that struck me.  I've lived in CA (many different locations but never out that way) since 1983.  We always have low cloud cover.  Local weatherman Fritz Coleman used to do stand up and one of his bits I saw was "doing the weather in Southern California is easy. Repeat after me.  "early morning low clouds followed by late morning clearing highs in the mid to upper 70's."   Everyone in the audience got it!  We all hear that report every day.  

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
taking out quoted crap

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

The highlighted is the one bit that struck me.  I've lived in CA (many different locations but never out that way) since 1983.  We always have low cloud cover.  Local weatherman Fritz Coleman used to do stand up and one of his bits I saw was "doing the weather in Southern California is easy. Repeat after me.  "early morning low clouds followed by late morning clearing highs in the mid to upper 70's."   Everyone in the audience got it!  We all hear that report every day.  

 

Maybe it was even lower than usual?

[Chef Jim]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Maybe it was even lower than usual?

 

Correct. I get that.  My point is the weather patterns here are EXTREMELY common and predictable.  

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

The highlighted is the one bit that struck me.  I've lived in CA (many different locations but never out that way) since 1983.  We always have low cloud cover.  Local weatherman Fritz Coleman used to do stand up and one of his bits I saw was "doing the weather in Southern California is easy. Repeat after me.  "early morning low clouds followed by late morning clearing highs in the mid to upper 70's."   Everyone in the audience got it!  We all hear that report every day.  

 

Saturday night?? Are you a helicopter mechanic in Orange County by chance?  

Sunday night.  Excuse me. Still was thinking about loved ones Saturday as well.  Coming close to the time of the year when two very important people to me passed.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Please stop this crappy back and forth right now. Youre both embarrassing yourselves in a RIP thread.

 

 

This. 

 

Listen Up! to you other guys: Get a room (take it to PM) if you guys want to bicker, I'm not in the mood.  Sounds like one of us (pilots) ***** up and took 8 people with him.   RIP, but I hate when that happens.  I take it very personally.  I don't think I'm alone there in the brotherhood.  On the other hand things happen so fast when you're flying and have such permanent consequences if you choose wrong.  There but for the Grace go I.

 

The thread is pinned.  It is pinned in Off the Wall because that's where the first thread was started,  it's not a football topic per se so that seemed appropriate, and the other threads got merged into it.  If the first thread had been started in TSW, I might have pinned it there, I don't know.  Why does it matter?  It's here on the forum for your use.  It's pinned.

 

AB is a football player. While we try to eliminate duplicate AB threads, football topics go in The Stadium Wall.  Non-Bills/Bills forum split has been previously brought up & rejected.

 

Crap thread that got started got closed in what, like an hour?  Want faster service, Report so it doesn't wait on a Mod to notice.

 

If you have a problem with this, 1) go PM Scott and complain 2) volunteer to be a mod so you can make better judgements and better keep your temper when people dole out criticism, abuse & threats  OR 3) GTFO and don't let the door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha

 

I'm gonna go clean out a bunch of crap up thread now. 

 

I trust it will not come back.

 

That is All.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

Sunday night.  Excuse me. Still was thinking about loved ones Saturday as well.  Coming close to the time of the year when two very important people to me passed.

 

Sorry.  I've not read this whole thread so wasn't aware of your personal losses.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

The highlighted is the one bit that struck me.  I've lived in CA (many different locations but never out that way) since 1983.  We always have low cloud cover.  Local weatherman Fritz Coleman used to do stand up and one of his bits I saw was "doing the weather in Southern California is easy. Repeat after me.  "early morning low clouds followed by late morning clearing highs in the mid to upper 70's."   Everyone in the audience got it!  We all hear that report every day. 

 

There's low and there's lower.  It sounds like the pilot was an experienced local guy.  He had a plan that was presumably based on prior experience with the local weather patterns and it dropped lower right at that spot.

 

Speculation: It may be that area is prone to it and he expected to be able to bullgaffle his way through it.  Maybe he'd done so successfully before a few times. 

 

Sometimes the most hazardous thing is to take a risk, and succeed.

[J-GunJoshAllen17]

When Neil Peart died a couple of weeks ago I was crushed because Rush is my favorite band and Peart along with John Lennon are basically my musical heroes.  This is just as heartbreaking for me and maybe even more.  There are just so many aspects of this story that devastating.  His age, his daughter, all the other victims and the fact that it looks like it could have been preventable.  It would be easier if his daughter didn't go with him.  Either way it's still very painful.  

Edited January 27, 2020 by J-GunJoshAllen17

[CLTbills]

On 1/26/2020 at 3:06 PM, Virgil said:

ESPN finally just reported it. One of the last to do so. 
 

You had one job.....

Honestly, with all the misinformation put out by the media yesterday, I'll give ESPN credit. 

I'd rather be right than first, considering how outrageous it all was yesterday.

[bbb]

42 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

Honestly, with all the misinformation put out by the media yesterday, I'll give ESPN credit. 

I'd rather be right than first, considering how outrageous it all was yesterday.

 

My friends were texting with me and when one of them texted the Woj tweet, I said now it's official.  He's a Bona fanatic and a Facebook friend, but I think I'm totally unbiased when I say why can't journalists be like him - he wants to be fast but he won't ever be fast at the cost of being wrong.  I've never seen him be wrong.  

[CommonCents]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's low and there's lower.  It sounds like the pilot was an experienced local guy.  He had a plan that was presumably based on prior experience with the local weather patterns and it dropped lower right at that spot.

 

Speculation: It may be that area is prone to it and he expected to be able to bullgaffle his way through it.  Maybe he'd done so successfully before a few times. 

 

Sometimes the most hazardous thing is to take a risk, and succeed.

You can find the audio transmissions online, were they sped up or was the flight just a few minutes long? Once they were cleared and stopped circling things happened very fast. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by CommonCents

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This story hit me hard.  First, I lost my dog named Kobe after 10 1/2 years of having him.  Saved him 1 hour before they were going to put him down too just because he had been at the kennel 3 weeks.  
 

Never thought we would be saying goodbye to the guy I named him after just 2 months later.  But that’s not really what got me...it was hearing about his daughter being in there and the other young girls and parents on board.

 

I was 18 years old and my brother was a day away from turning 7 when my father was murdered and he was about the same age as Kobe.  It’s hard losing a parent so young, especially when they are so close to you.  Heart breaks for his wife and other daughters who will all have different levels of grief as well as the families of the other souls lost.  
 

My brother was 7, so it hit him differently as he mostly grew up just not remembering him as well given he was pretty young.  I had to learn how to be a man fast and deal with one of my biggest hero’s, motivators and inspirations being gone at the same time.
 

Coincidentally, that was November 1994, and he was a massive 49er fan.  That’s is why to this day that was the only year I ever rooted for the 49ers to win the Super Bowl, and that was the last time they won it...a few months later behind Steve Young.  
 

Now 25 years later the Niners are back in the SB and I will be once again rooting for them for the first time since in honor of him.  And in my $100 per square SB Pool I ran, I bought 2 squares.  One says “Kobe” which was originally in honor of my dog but now has much deeper meaning...and the other was the 94th square and has my dads name on it.  

 

Last night went to Lakers HQ for the Kobe vigil and was honored to pay tribute and leave a message on the canvas tribute wall they put up with his pic to be signed.  Got to thank him for all the memories and most importantly the inspiration myself and so many others have taken away from his work ethics and most importantly dedication to his kids and family.

Alpha I was not able to go did you see Quinn Cooke down there?  I heard he was there

[sherpa]

There's clouds and there's fog, and they can exist in the same area, because they are the same thing, codensed water vapor, except one is very close to the ground.

LA basin has predictable coastal fog at predictable times every year, and it burns off mid morning.

A low ceiling can turn to fog with a half degree temperature, and "burn off with just the same temperature change.

Nothing strange about it.

I would never engage in impromptu accident investigation, but its a really bad idea to hunt around for a cloud base when you don't know it it extends to the surface.

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Alpha I was not able to go did you see Quinn Cooke down there?  I heard he was there

Quinn was at the Staples center where fans just originally gathered and did their own.   I went to El Segundo to the Lakers HQ and practice facility where the Lakers organization set up a vigil for the public.  I know it was still open an hour ago as I had a friend who was there then.  There was a massive canvas wall with his pic on it and Lakers employees had sharpies for everyone to write a message on the wall.  
 

https://apple.news/AxgMSUXyWQR6lJd5GW2I_WA

[JoPoy88]

36 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

You can find the audio transmissions online, were they sped up or was the flight just a few minutes long? Once they were cleared and stopped circling things happened very fast. 

The flight took after just after 9am local time and ended just shy of 10am, where it was ~20 miles from its destination (if it was landing at or around the sports complex.)

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Please stop this crappy back and forth right now. Youre both embarrassing yourselves in a RIP thread.

 

Is it an official RIP thread?  Change the title then.  I an mostly with you.  But, Geeze... What more is there to say if it's just RIP.  So much more to talk about.  Kobe is very controversial.

Edited January 27, 2020 by ExiledInIllinois