Do you think the Bills are going to make a big run at Clowney?

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I didnt mean that all 3 would equal Clowney, just that I'd rather bring all them back than worry about Clowney.

 

$15M, $10M, and $20M still leaves us $45M in cap space. And it's a solid long term investment in a good spot- the trenches.

 

 

That's too much to invest in the D-line with contracts coming up for Milano, Dawkins, White, Poyer (possibly), Edmunds, and hopefully another FA play maker on offense. 

 

Beane used a lot of draft capital and free agency money (Oliver, Harry, Star) at D-tackle to pay a rotational guy that much in Phillips.  A lower cost option to throw into the rotation is more likely.  If we do somehow break the bank for Yannick then it's more likely we take a DE in the first few rounds then resign Shaq.  Conversely, we could resign Shaq and then draft another pass rusher if we don't decide to sign a premium pass rusher in free agency.  If I had to guess Beane does that before signing a big name DE in free agency.

 

23 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Baltimore said they would franchise Judon if they can't agree to a deal.

Wasn't aware of that.  Last I heard was Harbaugh saying it would be difficult to get a deal done with him.

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Correct Answer.  Reward Jordan & Shaq. Sign Ngakoue to a reasonable deal.

He's going to sign for over 100 million for 5 years somewhere probably.  I wouldn't consider that a reasonable deal.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

So where is the 90M in space being spent?

 

 

Same way it was last year, with lots of mid- to lower-level guys. With a bunch of re-signing our own guys thrown in. And there's no requirement that every last dime be spent. Last year they left a bunch unspent to be rolled over into this year, and they might very easily do the same thing again.

[chongli]

6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

 

Wasn't aware of that.  Last I heard was Harbaugh saying it would be difficult to get a deal done with him.

 

Yeah, Baltimore does not like to use the tag, but they said Judon would be their top priority in the off-season and they would tag him if necessary:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-to-use-franchise-tag-on-matt-judon-if-a-long-term-deal-cant-be-worked-out/

Edited January 22, 2020 by chongli

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Lmao. They already have overpaid. Take a look at Stars contract and tell me they didn't overpay for him. 
 

 

 

 

 

They didn't overpay for him.

 

They may not be getting what you want, but they got what McDermott wanted and that's why they valued him that way. Since he's been here, they've had two absolutely top-flight defenses. McDermott knows how to put together an excellent defense, and he values Star. That you don't is very much beside the point.

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

And he’s more than twice the player Star is.....do you see how that works?

 

 

Nonsense. You measure a guy by how well he plays his position. Star plays his very well, and so does Clowney. Clowney's better but in no way twice as good.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

No, wouldn't mind him though, rather have healthy JJ Watt.

 

 

[Trogdor]

They need someone who can rush and contain, aka not Murphy. I don't think it can be understated how important that is if they want to make the playoffs with next year's schedule. Getting rid of Star would be a big help as that guy is sideways on most of the interior run plays. Clowney seems an ideal for with Shaq to set the edge and collapse the pocket. 

[CSBill]

12 hours ago, WMDman said:

I’d rather pay Yannick

 

This

[MAJBobby]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Same way it was last year, with lots of mid- to lower-level guys. With a bunch of re-signing our own guys thrown in. And there's no requirement that every last dime be spent. Last year they left a bunch unspent to be rolled over into this year, and they might very easily do the same thing again.

I wouldn’t call Morse being the highest paid center mid level. If anything from those regime the will highlight a class with a Big Name signing. Morse, Star 

[colin]

mcd knows the value of a great edge player and natural pass rusher, he had kraken in carolina and that guy super charged their D.  they really fell off without him.

 

bean going after OBJ and AB shows hes will to throw down some chips for a big time player, and i think clowney fits that bill (if not him, than one of the other ones out there too, i'm not married to any of them).

 

i know lots of people are thinking since we seemed to get some utility out of signing more value guys last year that we should do that this year.  the problem with that is we only have so many roster spots, and we are lacking in talent and are long cap space, the solution is to pour a little more into some high impact guys.  yes we will over pay like we did for morse and star, but so what?  it's not like we win games with having extra cap room.  

 

Maj bobby had some sick threads on positions, based on what he's written i'd like to cut kroft and smith, sign hooper, let shak walk and sign clowney, and get either cooper or aj green (or whoever) as a splash WR all in FA.  if we front load the contracts to soak up lots of our excess cap space (and possibly do the same w white) then we will have room to make roster moves and re up dawkins, allen, millano, edumds, etc.

 

 

we will add like 5 to 7 guys every draft as well, so we'll have all the bodies and jags we want, but we have to go out and pay some talent.

[Greg S]

I doubt it as Beane has said many times they will spend responsibly in FA but prefer to build thru the draft and resign their own. Speaking of which isn't White due for a new contract soon? The Bills will have to pay big money for him as he is a big part of what they are building in Buffalo.

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, Greg S said:

I doubt it as Beane has said many times they will spend responsibly in FA but prefer to build thru the draft and resign their own. Speaking of which isn't White due for a new contract soon? The Bills will have to pay big money for him as he is a big part of what they are building in Buffalo.

“Responsibly” doesn’t necessarily mean “inexpensively”. They gave a center with a concussion history $11M AAV last offseason; they’ll spend when they need to...and this year, they need to.

 

I think folks are really underestimating the amount of cap space this team has. They could sign 3 different $15M/year guys and still have plenty of room for draft picks and in-season transactions. And with Star potentially coming off the books next year, they still would have $60M to spend on extensions for Tre/Milano/Dawkins.

 

There is absolutely no reason to pinch pennies here.

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

I really hope we don't target Clowney in FA. He's too injury-prone, doesn't make enough difference-making plays, and will not warrant the money he'll get on the open mkt. I would guess that he'll break down completely from a physical standpoint in 2 more seasons or less.

 

If we are going to spend top dollar on this position, I would target Ngakoue, Judon, and Dupree in that order.

 

Yannick is by far the best...players like him don't make it to free agency EVER. Hugely productive, has never missed a game, Walter Payton Man of the Year Nominee, and will only be 25 when next season starts...anything can happen, but all the signs point to a superstar who would be worth his big second contract.

[Dougy84]

While Bud Dupree would be sweet, I think Pitt locks him up. I'd love to go a little cheaper and target Matt Judon from Baltimore. Dude is a beast

[John from Riverside]

15 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

So where is the 90M in space being spent?

Agreed 

 

at some point you gotta spend SOME of it

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

Ahhhhh!

 

The never ending Buffalo quest to win games 6-0 and put us to bed by halftime.

[GreggTX]

If he's even available, they will do due diligence and make a reasonable offer. He would be the best pass rusher on the roster, but not a 15 sack type. He would also help our run defense a lot and we need that. My guess is that he'll stay in Seattle or, if not, get more money elsewhere. I certainly wouldn't mind having him.

 

I'm also hoping a healthier Jerry Hughes will have one last 10+ sack season, but we'd have to get a real threat opposite him and wouldn't Clowney at LE be just that? Yannick at RE is nice to contemplate, but then who plays LE in that scenario? I'm not excited by having Murphy or Shaq over there and Hughes would be better at RE.

 

At DT, I think Oliver and H Phillips will be the starters.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, njbuff said:

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the Bills were one of the teams in on trading for him.

 

I'm not a rocket scientist.  Humor me.  I mean, the Bills were said to be in on trading for AB also, but I don't believe it was more than a "due diligence" sniff.

 

4 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Ahhhhh!

 

The never ending Buffalo quest to win games 6-0 and put us to bed by halftime.

 

Who's us?  You got a twin?  Or a mouse in your pocket?  Some of us love a good defensive battle.

 

15 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

think the Seattle deal included a no tag on Clowney so he will up for the highest bidders   I'm sure Beane will at least kick tires.  Honestly want them to dump assets into offense.  Defense is good enough they can resupply through the draft and minor free agents.

 

Probably true except at one position - Edge

[Pete]

I think most of agree the Bills biggest needs are WR and Edge.  With $90 million it behooves the Bills to fix both before the draft.   Elite edge players don't come cheap. Beane has made plays for Clowney before.   I'm sure he is doing his due diligence on Clowney, and if he's a great fit, he will very much be a player for Clowney.   IMO Seattle tags Clowney.  Beane will sign Edge and WR .  He will make a big signing at WR, Edge, OL, or TE IMO.

[Thurman#1]

42 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I wouldn’t call Morse being the highest paid center mid level. If anything from those regime the will highlight a class with a Big Name signing. Morse, Star 

 

 

You wouldn't call an $11 mill a year player mid-level? I would. Star was even less. And pretending Morse and Star are "big name signings" is ridiculous.

 

Morse was the 16th highest FA signing in terms of average salary, if you only look at last year's FAs. That is certainly not top-level.

 

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them sign another $10 or $11 million FA this year. I'd be very surprised to see them sign a high-level guy, though.

[thebandit27]

Oh now you all love Matt Judon.

 

Where were y’all back in 2016?!?!

 

For real though: imagine if we drafted all of Bandit’s draft crushes in 2016 when we had the chance. It could’ve looked like:

Myles Jack

Kamalei Correa

Robby Anderson

Geronimo Allison

Matt Judon

Elandon Roberts

 

Ok, too many LBs, but they’d have been good LBs!

[Marv's Neighbor]

Hopefully NO!  He's an overpr0cedi injury prone hit man.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Last year they needed mid level players just to refill the talent and depth on the roster because they had none of it.... this year will be a somewhat of a different approach. Beane mentioned they'll look to FA to find starters.... why replace current mid level starters by signing mid level starters in FA? 

 

The team is in a different place then it was last year at this time. I feel they add at least two of the better FAs. 

 

 

 

Yes, it's in a different place last year. That will undoubtedly call for different strategies.

 

But it will absolutely not call for changing core principles.

 

And building your core through the draft and filling in with low- to mid-level guys is a core principle with them. As it is just about without exception for the teams that are consistently good, the Ravens, the Pats, the Pack, the Steelers. It's industry best practices. And it's what they've publicly said are their principles. Now, those teams do indeed bring in a high-level FA every once in a great while, like every five or six years. But two in one year? Nah. I mean, if by "better FAs" you're only referring to talent then hopefully you'll be right. But if you're talking about money, it's virtual certainty they won't bring in two top-level guys. One? I doubt it, but again, even those class organizations do it once in a blue moon. Maybe this will be the year for us.

 

They say they're going to find starters? Absolutely. They did it last year with Morse, Brown, Beasley, Spain, etc. I absolutely expect a few of those types again.

[MAJBobby]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You wouldn't call an $11 mill a year player mid-level? I would. Star was even less. And pretending Morse and Star are "big name signings" is ridiculous.

 

Morse was the 16th highest FA signing in terms of average salary, if you only look at last year's FAs. That is certainly not top-level.

 

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them sign another $10 or $11 million FA this year. I'd be very surprised to see them sign a high-level guy, though.

Morse was the Top 2 Center on the Market.  YEP.

Start was a top 5 DT on the market yep.

 

So History says they will sign at least one Headlining UFA

[Thurman#1]

 

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

The value of a run stopping defensive tackle who really isn't all that good at it vs a dominant, game changing defensive lineman.... no, it's really not the same thing. 

 

 

Agreed, those two aren't the same thing. But neither of those describes Star.

 

What Star is is a very good run stopping defensive tackle. He's a guy who does what McDermott needs done. The fact that he doesn't do things the way a few keyboard warriors would like is beside the point. McDermott was very aware what he was getting, he coached him in Carolina and paid what he felt that role was worth to him and Star is doing much the same thing here.

[papazoid]

i doubt beane has any interest in clowney whatsoever

 

besides, clowney already stated he's only signing with a proven contender....that's not buffalo....yet

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not a rocket scientist.  Humor me.  I mean, the Bills were said to be in on trading for AB also, but I don't believe it was more than a "due diligence" sniff.

 

 

Who's us?  You got a twin?  Or a mouse in your pocket?  Some of us love a good defensive battle.

 

 

Probably true except at one position - Edge

Love that you love.  But it’s like nails on a chalk board for me.  Maybe it’s because my first experience with football was starting at a tender age in 1989 Cleveland WC Game and then all the formative years were watching the no huddle attack.

 

Offense Offense Offense

[Thurman#1]

44 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

“Responsibly” doesn’t necessarily mean “inexpensively”. They gave a center with a concussion history $11M AAV last offseason; they’ll spend when they need to...and this year, they need to.

 

I think folks are really underestimating the amount of cap space this team has. They could sign 3 different $15M/year guys and still have plenty of room for draft picks and in-season transactions. And with Star potentially coming off the books next year, they still would have $60M to spend on extensions for Tre/Milano/Dawkins.

 

There is absolutely no reason to pinch pennies here.

 

 

 

We're not underestimating the cap they've got this year. It's nearly exactly what they had last year. And last year they didn't have the opportunity they have this year to use a bunch of that money to re-sign their own guys, and yet they still didn't bring in the high contracts. And they left $25 mill unspent so they'd be in good shape this year, something they might well want to make a continuing practice.

 

I mean, if you consider one $11 mill a year contract and several around $7 or $8 like last year a lot of spending then we agree, they're very likely to spend at that kind of a general level.

 

Oh, and responsibly very often does mean inexpensively. Expect conservative cap spending practices, it's what these guys are about. Check their record at Carolina and their public statements.

[BigPappy]

I don't think so. Clowney will want huge money most likely and that is not what Bean is about. They wan't to build through the draft and plug holes with free agents here and there. Not sure he would be worth the money he will be looking for.

[Thurman#1]

33 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Morse was the Top 2 Center on the Market.  YEP.

Start was a top 5 DT on the market yep.

 

So History says they will sign at least one Headlining UFA

 

 

Well, if you seriously consider a "top 5" guy as a headliner ... not much I can say to that beyond that you're using "headlining" in a way that not many other people would ever use it.

 

Yeah, another $10 mill or so a year contract is a very reasonable possibility this year and every year if it fills a need. Not so much $18 or $20 mill, though.

[thebandit27]

45 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

We're not underestimating the cap they've got this year. It's nearly exactly what they had last year. And last year they didn't have the opportunity they have this year to use a bunch of that money to re-sign their own guys, and yet they still didn't bring in the high contracts. And they left $25 mill unspent so they'd be in good shape this year, something they might well want to make a continuing practice.

 

I mean, if you consider one $11 mill a year contract and several around $7 or $8 like last year a lot of spending then we agree, they're very likely to spend at that kind of a general level.

 

Oh, and responsibly very often does mean inexpensively. Expect conservative cap spending practices, it's what these guys are about. Check their record at Carolina and their public statements.

Nope.

 

Last year they had $80M in cap space with less than 40 players under contract.

 

This year, assuming a cap of $199M, they have almost $90M in cap space with an entire regular season roster (53) under contract. HUGE difference.

 

Let me ask this: suppose instead of signing Morse at 11, Brown at 9, Beasley at 7, and Nsekhe at 6.5 (total of 33.5), they sign, say, Ngakoue at 18 and AJ Green at 15.5–same dollars; is one more “responsible” than the other?

24 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, if you seriously consider a "top 5" guy as a headliner ... not much I can say to that beyond that you're using "headlining" in a way that not many other people would ever use it.

 

Yeah, another $10 mill or so a year contract is a very reasonable possibility this year and every year if it fills a need. Not so much $18 or $20 mill, though.

Why?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

Oh now you all love Matt Judon.

 

I didn't love Matt Judon when he was beating Knox like a drum and strip-sacking Allen.

But I'd love to see him wearing a Bills uni and doing same to someone else.

 

Didn't Baltimore kind of imply they would franchise him if they need to keep him from walking, though?

[MAJBobby]

33 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, if you seriously consider a "top 5" guy as a headliner ... not much I can say to that beyond that you're using "headlining" in a way that not many other people would ever use it.

 

Yeah, another $10 mill or so a year contract is a very reasonable possibility this year and every year if it fills a need. Not so much $18 or $20 mill, though.

Yes When 64 usable tags get applied, guess what it left?

[formerlyofCtown]

17 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 I think they want a stud DE, but the type of money Clowney wants will probably cause Beane to look at other FAs that may be available.

This might be a good poll...

Clowney didn't have a year that will get him a monster payday.  3 sacks aint gonna get you 20 mil a year.

[formerlyofCtown]

17 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

no chance

 

we have so many holes on offense to fill we don't need to be spending a chunk of our cap on an injury prone DE. 

Where are these holes?  I think growth and a couple players is all thats needed.  A second RB and a big WR is all I see.  I think ppl forget all the new faces on offense this past season.  The offense would get better as it is just with another offseason.

Josh will improve.  

The Oline, especially Ford will improve.

Singletary.

The TEs.

Unless you think Rooks are a finished product coming out of the draft.

1 hour ago, Pete said:

I think most of agree the Bills biggest needs are WR and Edge.  With $90 million it behooves the Bills to fix both before the draft.   Elite edge players don't come cheap. Beane has made plays for Clowney before.   I'm sure he is doing his due diligence on Clowney, and if he's a great fit, he will very much be a player for Clowney.   IMO Seattle tags Clowney.  Beane will sign Edge and WR .  He will make a big signing at WR, Edge, OL, or TE IMO.

OL maybe.

TE really??

Edge I agree with.

WR is a possibility.

[Thurman#1]

36 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Nope.

 

Last year they had $80M in cap space with less than 40 players under contract.

 

This year, assuming a cap of $199M, they have almost $90M in cap space with an entire regular season roster (53) under contract. HUGE difference.

 

Let me ask this: suppose instead of signing Morse at 11, Brown at 9, Beasley at 7, and Nsekhe at 6.5 (total of 33.5), they sign, say, Ngakoue at 18 and AJ Green at 15.5–same dollars; is one more “responsible” than the other?

 

 

I'd argue that signing both just would not fit their expressed methods. They've said again and again that they build with the draft and fill in with FAs and that they don't do a lot of expensive FAs.

 

Assuming they are going to pick one or the other (unlikely but possible, IMO), yeah, I absolutely think one is more responsible than the other. The one who has played in 62 of 64 games the last four years over the one who has played in 35 of 48 games the last three years and will be 32, an age where injuries tend to increase.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

Yeah, the Bills right now have 53 players under contract, and $89 mill available. Yeah, but that includes guys like Christian Wade, Kaare Vedvik, Cam Lewis, Tyrel Dodson and Victor Salako and you can say they have 53 guys, but those guys are absolute minimum salaries against the cap right now. It's not very different at all from last year. But last year we had basically nobody they could re-sign. This year quite a few guys could possibly be re-inked, including Tre'D or Dion Dawkins, though they also might wait to do 'em.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

One thing i will say is - its becoming important to be able to stop the run.  Clowney is a really good run defender at DE. 

 

But now its basically at legit every spot on defense.  It's a passing league sure, but its almost comical how much more teams are running in the playoffs this year.  It reminds me of hockey - this super fast finesse game during the regular season.. then refs don't call any penalties so it becomes a much more physical game in the playoffs.  

 

I think part of it is the analytics piece (a pass play is more likely to net more yards than a run play) almost gets thrown out because it's just a single game.  You are gameplanning a single match-up etc.  

[blacklabel]

I'm sure they'll check into it and get a ballpark idea of what kind of deal he's looking for. He's a decent player but he's never quite become the monster he was hyped up to be. I wouldn't be bummed if they don't sign him, and I wouldn't be doing backflips if they do... just kinda meh on it. If they do sign him, just don't give him stupid money.

 

Lot of people been suggesting Yannick Ngakoue, he'd be alright. Jags GM recently said he thinks they'll get a deal done "relatively easily" with him. But then Ngakoue went on Twitter and said "Don't believe everything you hear." 

 

One thing's for sure, if they do end up with either of those guys, prepare to see some people losing their marbles over the money. Bills have always had to overspend a little to get FA's in here. Perhaps that changes now that they've hit the playoffs in two out of the last three years... but, even then, if it's a guy they really want here, they'll pay out. Kinda like Morse. Is he the best center in the league? Probably not, but he's paid to be, and hey, whatever works. They might be overpaying some guys depending on who you ask but at least they're going out there and addressing their needs. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by blacklabel

[eball]

It takes you HOW long to cook pasta?

[Logic]

No.