JGMcD2 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I love Beane and McDermott and the job they've done overall. I support them going forward. But I still feel the need to draw attention to a critical mistake they've made. McDermott seemed borderline embarrassed about it in his press conference last night, so hopefully it won't happen again, but the fact that it was a mistake of this magnitude does cause some concern. As I recall, the Bills were the only team in the NFL to carry only four CBs on their opening-day roster. I think everyone assumed this was just a temporary thing and they'd bring a veteran back after week 1, but it never happened. This meant the Bills were very thin at this position throughout the season and were very lucky to avoid significant injuries, until yesterday when they had to play two starters (Wallace and T. Johnson) deep into a meaningless game due to "a lack of bodies" as McDermott phrased it after the game. With Wallace in a walking boot, it probably means we are walking into the playoffs -- against a potent passing attack which we can only hope does not include Will Fuller -- with two boundary corners, a banged-up slot corner, and only safeties to back them up. The Texans will be looking at this as the Bills' weakness to attack. Stills could have a big game. McDermott said after the game that you hate to be in the position to have to play those guys like they did yesterday. Newsflash, McDermott/Beane: you didn't have to. You should have had a backup plan so you didn't have to risk the thinnest position on your roster going into the playoffs. Now you have put the team in a very difficult situation, and it was entirely avoidable. Start the season with another CB, or bring someone in just to play week 17. Either way, this never should have happened. I believe I heard that this year we only used roughly 54 different players in a game up until this week. Harrison Phillips, Zay Jones, Kyle Peko, Connor McDermott and Maurice Alexander are the only players that made the 53 man roster that aren’t active for us as of week 17. Phillips and Alexander on the IR, Jones traded and McDermott and Peko released. To replace those players we signed Senorise Perry, Duke Williams, Corey Liuget, Vince Taylor and Kyle Peko (Peko was signed to replace Phillips and then released for Taylor). Let me also point out that our castoffs have consistently been coveted (or at least immediately picked up) by teams across the league. Russell Bodine, Wyatt Teller, Zay Jones, Connor McDermott, Kyle Peko are all players that teams have traded for or claimed off waivers, rather than wait for them to hit FA. With all of that being said... this well written and there is thought behind it so I won’t dismiss it like others have thus far. Out of curiosity who would you have cut this year and when would you have cut them? What corner(s) would you have added? If you had cut a player in week 17 you are going to be leaving another position group susceptible to injury or cutting a player that shouldn’t necessarily be cut. So which position group/area of strength would you be more willing to jeopardize? Edited December 30, 2019 by JGMcD2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: I thought Taron went back in for a play even though he looked hobbled? I thought Wallace was the one who looked done for the year. If they are both done you need to bring two guys in. I believe that's correct. I'm more concerned about Taron than Levi though--I think KJ will represent little to no dropoff, whereas the drop off from Taron to Neal is more significant 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampton Josh fan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Every team has a position that gets exposed by injuries and lack of depth. Levi got torched plenty during the season and missed a lot of tackles. Losing him is not a killer.The Johnson boys should hold their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 with the way the back-up secondary as a whole played and communicated against the Jets I'm not super woŕried. the only concern I have with the defense right now is the poor tackling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: I believe I heard that this year we only used roughly 54 different players in a game up until this week. Harrison Phillips, Zay Jones, Kyle Peko, Connor McDermott and Maurice Alexander are the only players that made the 53 man roster that aren’t active for us as of week 17. Phillips and Alexander on the IR, Jones traded and McDermott and Peko released. To replace those players we signed Senorise Perry, Duke Williams, Corey Liuget, Vince Taylor and Kyle Peko (Peko was signed to replace Phillips and then released for Taylor). This is well written and there is thought behind it so I won’t dismiss it like others have thus far. Out of curiosity who would you have cut this year and when would you have cut them? What corner(s) would you have added? If you had cut a player in week 17 you are going to be leaving another position group susceptible to injury or cutting a player that shouldn’t necessarily be cut. So which position group/area of strength would you be more willing to jeopardize? I appreciate that. I've noted elsewhere in the thread that the Bills stockpiled safeties -- J. Johnson, Marlowe, Coleman -- who barely played, if at all. Going with so many backups there when there are only two starters, both of which have been very reliable and durable throughout their careers, while leaving CB so thin was very puzzling to me. Throw in the fact that T. Johnson and K. Johnson both had significant injury history, this was always an area of concern. They should have kept Gaines and/or Munnerlyn or some other veteran and let go of one or two of the extra safeties. Edited December 30, 2019 by Giuseppe Tognarelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 People wanted Wallace to rest lol. People are funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: For me, the folks reacting like this is crazy talk must believe that McDermott can do no wrong, or they just don't want to hear any points of concern about the team. The fact is that the Bills are thin at corner and are about to face a dynamic passing attack. The Bills chose to keep J. Johnson, Marlowe, and Coleman, who have barely seen the field, over another reliable backup corner. I think that was the wrong decision. 1. Don't deflect. You are making bad arguments. You getting called on them does not mean your critics believe "McDermott can do not wrong." 2. Special teams matter. The extra safety plays the spot on special teams usually reserved for the last CB. However, they are interchangeable. 3. At the end of the day, McDermott kept his most expendable players on the field. For example, Spain. Of all our lineman, Spain is the most easily replaceable. On the other side, because Johnson and Wallace split time, one of those two are more easily expendable. 4. Our defense runs on Poyer, Hyde, and White. The difference between the 4th DB and the 5th DB is negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 So what you are saying is you wish Tre White was active? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: You're missing the point. It's not that they need starting-caliber backups; it's that they need backups period. They don't have them. They have safeties instead. It's not about a freak injury; it's about the lack of numbers at the position. They have plenty of DBs who can play both CB and Safety... you're blowing this way out of proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: No, it's not about the freak accident. He shouldn't have been playing in the first place; the rest of the starters were gone by then. If someone gets hurt on Saturday, are you comfortable with Siran Neal or Isaiah McKenzie covering Kenny Stills? The point is, we had deactivated our star CB Tre White. So you're fundamentally dissing on McDermott's roster management because of a game that kind of flukishly didn't count - unlike the Chiefs, NE, SF, Sea, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles etc our playoff fate was already decided and whether we won or lost didn't change it, so we deactivated a healthy star player then made a choice to sit the starter who shares reps when the guy he shares reps with went down to protect him How many games in how many seasons are going to be Just That Circumstance? I would much rather be the Chiefs or NE or Titans etc where the 16th game is being played for home field or something. If we were playing for something yesterday and not resting our guys, Tre is in there, Wallace gets hurt and Kevin Johnson comes in and stays in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I believe that's correct. I'm more concerned about Taron than Levi though--I think KJ will represent little to no dropoff, whereas the drop off from Taron to Neal is more significant Not sure what the TV broadcast showed with respect to the Wallace injury. But it looked bad. Non-contact, and he wouldn’t put weight on it as he left the field. I couldn’t believe they didn’t get the cart for him. I hope it’s not an Achilles, but that was my thought watching it live in the stadium yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 55 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: You’re right, incompetence of the highest level. Fire him and bring in Freddie, he’s got time on his hands. ? I’ve worked for micromanagers like you. this is where I am at. The mismanagement of Eli Wallace is unacceptable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, JR in Pittsburgh said: this is where I am at. The mismanagement of Eli Wallace is unacceptable. It’s outrageous, egregious...it’s totally unacceptable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 I remain thoroughly puzzled. It's hard for me to believe that any objective observer could look at the situation right now and feel comfortable with the depth at the cornerback position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Clemfield2622 said: I think the reason they felt comfortable going with 4 is that some of the safeties had versatility to play corner in a pinch. It's not easy to bring in a guy for one game, as you would have to make a roster spot. Bingo. Siran Neal can play corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 What is Youboty up to? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGMcD2 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I appreciate that. I've noted elsewhere in the thread that the Bills stockpiled safeties -- J. Johnson, Marlowe, Coleman -- who barely played, if at all. Going with so many backups there when there are only two starters, both of which have been very reliable and durable throughout their careers, while leaving CB so thin was very puzzling to me. Throw in the fact that T. Johnson and K. Johnson both had significant injury history, this was always an area of concern. They should have kept Gaines and/or Munnerlyn or some other veteran and let go of one or two of the extra safeties. I definitely see what you mean by keeping so many safeties and them not seeing much playing time, but almost none of our backups have played extensively this season due to how healthy we have been. You could argue Ford but he’s basically been in a time share with Nsheke the entire season. I know Coleman is strictly a safety but Marlowe, Johnson and Neal do offer some flexibility and I’d assume that’s how McDermott and Beane viewed it when constructing the roster. I’m almost positive we released EJ Gaines with an injury settlement after placing him on the IR before the season. If that’s the case, I don’t believe we could resign him even if we wanted to. Munnerlyn was somewhat puzzling to me, the consensus seemed to be that we would resign him at some point during the season but we never did. Maybe it was because we remained so healthy all year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 We'll see what happens in the game. Hopefully my concern is unfounded and we have no issues with depth. I say that seriously, not smugly. But if we end up seeing dynamic dudes flying past Siran Neal or similar, I'll be frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think he's solid but a huge injury risk. He's been fine this year, playing in all 16 games. 11 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Not sure what the TV broadcast showed with respect to the Wallace injury. But it looked bad. Non-contact, and he wouldn’t put weight on it as he left the field. I couldn’t believe they didn’t get the cart for him. I hope it’s not an Achilles, but that was my thought watching it live in the stadium yesterday. A lot of guys don't want to take the cart. He got onto it on the sidelines, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloMatt Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Next Man UP! Its the playoffs. Eagles won SB with backups. This is when unknowns become known. The one who often becomes the hero started as the backup! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perk71 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 After the Bills win the Super Bowl in the near future, there will be people on here complaining we are gonna lose so and so player. How will they ever compete the following year!! Haha Go Bills!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I believe that's correct. I'm more concerned about Taron than Levi though--I think KJ will represent little to no dropoff, whereas the drop off from Taron to Neal is more significant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I remain thoroughly puzzled. It's hard for me to believe that any objective observer could look at the situation right now and feel comfortable with the depth at the cornerback position. If Taron is healthy, then they have 4 healthy corners going into the game. It's not an any more of a concern than any other team would have. In reality, had they kept a 6th corner on the roster, it would've been Lewis, who's been practicing with the team for 8 months. 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: Cool. Assuming nothing of note on Neal, they have 2 boundary guys and 2 slot guys healthy. Probably move Levi to IR and promote Cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Cool. Assuming nothing of note on Neal, they have 2 boundary guys and 2 slot guys healthy. Probably move Levi to IR and promote Cam. If Cam played both pre-season which other posters seem to recall he did then that is the obvious move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: EJ Gaines is a free agent. I wonder if they look at him? He's good for at least 30 snaps before he gets hurt. Can we sign him though? I know he was released on injury settlement. Not sure how that works. Just to follow up looks like you can re-sign a player released on injury settlement after 6 weeks so Gaines should be free to return to the Bills if they wanted him back. Edited December 30, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The only issue I have, really, is the reliance on Levi Wallace's frail frame to hold up for an entire season. Simply put: he does not have an NFL player's body. It was just a matter of time. They hopefully realize they need to upgrade the #2 CB position and will do so in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: The only issue I have, really, is the reliance on Levi Wallace's frail frame to hold up for an entire season. Simply put: he does not have an NFL player's body. It was just a matter of time. They hopefully realize they need to upgrade the #2 CB position and will do so in the offseason. I think they feel pretty good about Wallace to be honest but James Bradberry could be a Bill this offseason. Edited December 30, 2019 by Buffalo_Stampede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 36 minutes ago, junior12thman92 said: He's been fine this year, playing in all 16 games. A lot of guys don't want to take the cart. He got onto it on the sidelines, though. I get that. It’s a sign of weakness. But it’s also not their call if it’s a serious injury. And watching it live, it looked bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Our DBs are somewhat interchangable in McD's scheme. If needed, one of the safeties can slide into the CB spot. That said, I have confidence in Kevin Johnson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Sal Capaccio just said he's concerned about our depth at corner and that we are thin at the position. But I'm a wacko, I know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Sal Capaccio just said he's concerned about our depth at corner and that we are thin at the position. But I'm a wacko, I know. Relax. Nobody said you're a wacko. I said (1) that they didn't keep 4 corners; they kept 5, and (2) that an injury to a starting corner is no greater concern to the Bills than it would be to any other team. Perhaps it's even less considering that the replacement starter has been taking 40% of the reps for the last 7 weeks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I remain thoroughly puzzled. It's hard for me to believe that any objective observer could look at the situation right now and feel comfortable with the depth at the cornerback position. 17 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Relax. Nobody said you're a wacko. I said (1) that they didn't keep 4 corners; they kept 5, and (2) that an injury to a starting corner is no greater concern to the Bills than it would be to any other team. Perhaps it's even less considering that the replacement starter has been taking 40% of the reps for the last 7 weeks. I’d love to look at any CB group in the league and what unit wouldn’t look thin with two possible injuries to key contributors. To any position in general either. Imagine Josh Allen hurting his elbow and then Matt Barkley hurting his thumb. Would we hear how we mismanaged the QB position too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: I think they feel pretty good about Wallace to be honest but James Bradberry could be a Bill this offseason. I mean again, the guy injured himself intercepting a pass, with no contact with anything other than the ball. I've never seen anything like it. He's made of glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: I love Beane and McDermott and the job they've done overall. I support them going forward. But I still feel the need to draw attention to a critical mistake they've made. McDermott seemed borderline embarrassed about it in his press conference last night, so hopefully it won't happen again, but the fact that it was a mistake of this magnitude does cause some concern. As I recall, the Bills were the only team in the NFL to carry only four CBs on their opening-day roster. I think everyone assumed this was just a temporary thing and they'd bring a veteran back after week 1, but it never happened. This meant the Bills were very thin at this position throughout the season and were very lucky to avoid significant injuries, until yesterday when they had to play two starters (Wallace and T. Johnson) deep into a meaningless game due to "a lack of bodies" as McDermott phrased it after the game. With Wallace in a walking boot, it probably means we are walking into the playoffs -- against a potent passing attack which we can only hope does not include Will Fuller -- with two boundary corners, a banged-up slot corner, and only safeties to back them up. The Texans will be looking at this as the Bills' weakness to attack. Stills could have a big game. McDermott said after the game that you hate to be in the position to have to play those guys like they did yesterday. Newsflash, McDermott/Beane: you didn't have to. You should have had a backup plan so you didn't have to risk the thinnest position on your roster going into the playoffs. Now you have put the team in a very difficult situation, and it was entirely avoidable. Start the season with another CB, or bring someone in just to play week 17. Either way, this never should have happened. dude, Marcus Peters, the ravens #1 CB played most of the game yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: I mean again, the guy injured himself intercepting a pass, with no contact with anything other than the ball. I've never seen anything like it. He's made of glass. Strange take, I don't think he's really missed much time since being activated last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, MR8 said: Quote they've built the #2 pass Defense int he NFL This is all that needs to be said to the silly post overall. #2 passing D in the league and OP somehow stats we mishandled the secondary. Does this make any logical sense at all? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Misshandled it into one of the league's top pass defense units. Yeah we should be concerned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Siran Neal is a corner in Buffalo's defense, hence why they carry 5 other safeties. They can't field a 75-man roster in week 17. Some guys are going to have to play. In fact, if you could pick a position for the Bills to lose a starter, Wallace has to be the first choice by a mile. Kevin Johnson has been solid and has been getting 40% of the boundary corner snaps since week 10. The NFL should really make week 17 a week in which every player on the roster is active. There's no reason not to, and these week 17 games involving teams locked into playoff slots have been a problem for a long time. 54 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: The only issue I have, really, is the reliance on Levi Wallace's frail frame to hold up for an entire season. Simply put: he does not have an NFL player's body. It was just a matter of time. They hopefully realize they need to upgrade the #2 CB position and will do so in the offseason. His injury had nothing to do with his small frame. It was a freak leg injury on a non-contact play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: No, it's not about the freak accident. He shouldn't have been playing in the first place; the rest of the starters were gone by then. If someone gets hurt on Saturday, are you comfortable with Siran Neal or Isaiah McKenzie covering Kenny Stills? Maybe the Bills felt like a loss or losses at other positions, like OL or WR for example, would have a bigger impact or drop off than at CB, so they chose to keep extra guys at those positions. Defense starts up front. Secondary has been a strength for the Bills for a few years now, but their overall success relies on the front 7's ability to create pressure and stop the run. Losing arguably your 4th best secondary player is probably less impactful, for this team and defensive scheme. McDermott does has a bit of a track record of getting production out of DBs that weren't drafted early. Next man up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. K Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, clayboy54 said: Funny how a few weeks ago some people were calling for Levi Wallace's head. Now, its "oh my God, he's hurt!" Giuseppe says the position was mishandled. In fact as Bandit and Gunner have said, you can't have 75 guys on the roster. Somebody had to be exposed Sunday. Managing an NFL roster is clearly not as easy as we all make it seem. Especially with the bipolar fanbase. I thought the same thing during the game. I wont be surprised if McBeane takes one in the first 3 rounds of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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