Week 16: Bills at Patriots***(*), 4:30 pm on NFLN, Postgame

[Livinginthepast]

The bottom line is we played scared against them and it once again looked like we didn't prepare and they were in our heads. Brady has looked the worse he has ever this season and yet once again vs the Bills he is as elusive as Lamar Jackson and accurate when he needs to be. We weren't getting even close to him.  He even tempted fate and blocked Trey white downfield. As an aside ( I cant believe that Trey didn't take him out and forget about the ball carrier when he saw him). When we should have gone for the kill shot we got conservative because Daboll is just too clever for his own good. And when we really needed a clutch pass from Josh he sailed it to Knox in the end zone.  I'm sick of all of these coaches in the past 20 years never playing balls out vs the Pats. I'm sick of them being easily duped by whatever the Pats do. Most of all I'm sick of them (current regime included) of not learning their lessons in these losses and making the same mistakes.  No fan of any sports team should have to endure what the Bills have against New England in the past 20 years. Its beyond endurance!

[Tcali]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

We cannot beat good teams with this offense.  Period.  We might get past the Texans, but that’s it.

 

It’s very disappointing that NE, for all their problems, are still a better team.  It’s a hard truth. And I hate to say it, but coaching is a big part of it.

agree...we need big improvement at o line and qb for next year. JA will be ok---he is just really learning to play qb.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

12 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

I don't want this to sound like any sort of moral victory kinda of crap, but the Bills are undoubtedly getting better.  I'm impressed withe off season additions to the offense.  I'm impressed with the progress Allen has made.   Last year this team went 23-3 and 37-16 vs the Pats.  This year we had the ball driving for the winning/tying score to end both games.  Success breads success and the success we've had this year has made all of us impatient.  It has me anyways.

I agree and this is the team we have Built and are building for the future. We are getting better but  I was feeling we were ready take a next step today. Close but not good enough.
 

I am just confused with the game plan.I’m confused with any team that lets Edelman beat you. Even the announcers that I was listening to on the radio were like the pats even would double team their own guy. 

 

I didn’t expect for Josh to play lights out. He made some huge throws And runs to give us a chance. But his first half was atrocious. We need a full game from him against a top team. He has to be a lot better.  I wish we would try to establish a Rhythm with him early, but our opening drive we run like seven straight plays and then throw on a 3rd and long. Josh needs to get it going early . 
 

But our d has to be better. Maybe that’s why I’m disappointed. I thought we Would get after and pound Brady. Make him think twice but far to often he could sit back there and pick us apart.

 

To me this is a total team loss on all

sides of the ball up to coaching. We need to figure this garbage out. We have two weeks.

 

[Kevmurph1213]

What did everyone think of the Pats rushing 11 with no returner on punts?  It screams of a Belichick move in terms of trying to do something unconventional to get an edge, but if I see that again, why not call in a fake punt with a quick slant pass?   Definitely not a high percentage play, but if you get the ball in the hands of somebody who can throw and they actually connect, it’s a runaway TD.... I bet we see this in the playoffs if the Pats keep rushing all 11 on punts, probably from the Ravens.

[Nihilarian]

Guys, the Bills came within one play of tying the team with the goat at QB with the #1 defense in the league. Plus, the Buffalo Bills are 10-5 and in the playoffs.

 

Just relax willyas.

 

 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

1 hour ago, Nitro said:

Watched the Bengals game.  They went after Brady and made him miserable.  Aggressive.  Frazier should have used that template to harass Brady

I agree and have to question why we didn’t? I just don’t understand our game plans at times.

 

[Dave from westfield]

Am I the only one who thinks that Josh Allen is not the answer?  He is by no means an NFL caliber QB

[AmishRifle]

Why does this board melt down over a game like this?  Step back and look at the big picture.  We’ll be balling come playoff time!

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, Kevmurph1213 said:

What did everyone think of the Pats rushing 11 with no returner on punts?  It screams of a Belichick move in terms of trying to do something unconventional to get an edge, but if I see that again, why not call in a fake punt with a quick slant pass?   Definitely not a high percentage play, but if you get the ball in the hands of somebody who can throw and they actually connect, it’s a runaway TD.... I bet we see this in the playoffs if the Pats keep rushing all 11 on punts, probably from the Ravens.

I think they considered it a reasonable risk vs the chance to get a block vs a suspect STs unit. The Bills need to shore up their performance in that area. 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

34 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

Exactly. It’s what we mostly did the first game  against NE too. The key difference was in game 1, the Bills were better stopping the run, and were able to make more third down stops. 
 

tough to play bend don’t break when you give up 5-6 yards on the ground on many 1st downs. 

In my opinion that’s the wrong defense to play on Brady at this point in his career. He is not great with pressure up the middle

and we should be daring him to make plays with his arm. 

allowing him to sit back and throw His  dink

and dunk has just become tiresome. 
 

however with that being said I thought we would own the lime of scrimmage..

Edited December 22, 2019 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[london_bills]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

We cannot beat good teams with this offense.  Period.  We might get past the Texans, but that’s it.

 

It’s very disappointing that NE, for all their problems, are still a better team.  It’s a hard truth. And I hate to say it, but coaching is a big part of it.

So interesting. I take your point that they are better in all areas, but I do tend to think if we had an elite QB then we are better then they are immediately by having a more potent offense.

[Meatloaf63]

5 minutes ago, Dave from westfield said:

Am I the only one who thinks that Josh Allen is not the answer?  He is by no means an NFL caliber QB

Guess you are the only one?

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, Dave from westfield said:

Am I the only one who thinks that Josh Allen is not the answer?  He is by no means an NFL caliber QB

 

Pretty much.

 

It's one thing to believe Allen will never be an elite NFL QB it's quite another to claim that Allen is not an NFL caliber QB.  He's clearly showed that at a minimum he's that.

 

[Dave from westfield]

Josh Allen should be moved to TE and the Bills need to find a QB that can actually throw the ball with some accuracy 

[Meatloaf63]

5 minutes ago, Dave from westfield said:

Josh Allen should be moved to TE and the Bills need to find a QB that can actually throw the ball with some accuracy 

Ok? If you say so....

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, IronyAbounds said:

The team will go where the defense takes its. Tonight the defense was subpar. With that said, the offense certainly didn't help matters at all, which amps up the pressure on the D and gave the Pats more offensive snaps than they should have had. Very frustrating loss, and I don't want to hear about next year because there are no certainties in the NFL and you have to take what you can when you can. Neither Texas nor KC will be easy to beat at home, and another one and done playoffs, while certainly better than no playoffs, will be disappointing.

The offense and ALLEN were incredibly disappointing, but this game perfectly illustrates the need for a stud pass rusher.

 

Yes, Frazier was ridiculously conservative, but against THAT line and THAT QB. No pressure whatsoever. It's a problem.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, GG said:

How is Daboll bad when he dialed up plays that had the TE wide open in the end zone?

 

So he dialed up a play or two.  He also is extremely easy to figure out.  The Bills are running on first down.  If its a good run they are running until its stopped.  If they pass on first down (rare) they are passing for most of the series.  If it's 2nd and short they are likely running the football.  If its 3rd and short they are likely looking for the big play that they should have looked for on 2nd and short.  If they have a one score lead expect them to play conservative and run the football.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Scott7975

[MILFHUNTER#518]

44 minutes ago, Tcali said:

agree...we need big improvement at o line and qb for next year. JA will be ok---he is just really learning to play qb.

If he had learned to feel pressure and then throw the damned ball away, we would not be having this conversation. 

[london_bills]

Just now, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

If he had learned to feel pressure and then throw the damned ball away, we would not be having this conversation. 

Good point about the pocket awareness. 

[Nihilarian]

28 minutes ago, Dave from westfield said:

Am I the only one who thinks that Josh Allen is not the answer?  He is by no means an NFL caliber QB

Jim Kelly played two seasons in the USFL under Mouse Davis and then in 1986 went 4-12 his first season in the NFL. 9-7 in his second season. In those first two NFL seasons he only completed 59.7% of his passes. He needed better players around him...just like Josh Allen!

 

 

[Big C]

I don't know if anyone addressed this already, but does anyone think they tried to beat them with a more vanilla gameplan knowing the odds to take the division were next to nothing? Not wanting to put anything new on tape in case we see them a third time?

 

I do feel good about how these guys will play in January. I like that Allen threw no picks even if he was slow to get started. We were knocking on the door again. Third time's a charm?

[mannc]

24 minutes ago, london_bills said:

So interesting. I take your point that they are better in all areas, but I do tend to think if we had an elite QB then we are better then they are immediately by having a more potent offense.

I don’t think Brady is a better QB than Josh Allen, at this point.  Brady is in a system that is perfectly designed and adapted to his strengths and weaknesses, while Allen is in a poorly designed mess of an offense whose goal is to score 17 to 20 points per game.

[HurlyBurly51]

27 minutes ago, Dave from westfield said:

Josh Allen should be moved to TE and the Bills need to find a QB that can actually throw the ball with some accuracy 

2 posts - and a heckuva start for you.  Enlightening and insightful.  I look forward to your long and illustrious TBD career. 

[london_bills]

2 minutes ago, Big C said:

I don't know if anyone addressed this already, but does anyone think they tried to beat them with a more vanilla gameplan knowing the odds to take the division were next to nothing? Not wanting to put anything new on tape in case we see them a third time?

 

I do feel good about how these guys will play in January. I like that Allen threw no picks even if he was slow to get started. We were knocking on the door again. Third time's a charm?

I just don't think this is the way mcdermott operates. I would be suprised. 

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don’t think Brady is a better QB than Josh Allen, at this point.  Brady is in a system that is perfectly designed and adapted to his strengths and weaknesses, while Allen is in a poorly designed mess of an offense whose goal is to score 17 to 20 points per game.

Interesting. I do to be honest. His pocket awareness of when there is someone on their way towards him is so good he gets rid of the ball at that moment. Also more accurate. 

[Big C]

5 minutes ago, london_bills said:

I just don't think this is the way mcdermott operates. I would be suprised. 

Interesting. I do to be honest. His pocket awareness of when there is someone on their way towards him is so good he gets rid of the ball at that moment. Also more accurate. 

 

I generally agree and understand. However, there doesn't seem to be another explanation for why we unleash more pressure packages. We basically rushed 4 and played zone the whole game and were picked apart like always. With that sorry bunch of receivers and Brady's limp arm we should have been more comfortable bringing more rushers. We did it more the first time we saw them and it worked very well. Now I know we had a crap ton of missed tackles but that is a different issue. 

 

To your second point, Brady has a ton of experience. Allen can develop those traits with more time. Accuracy issues for Allen have more to do with his patience and footwork, which we have already seen improvements on this season.

[london_bills]

6 minutes ago, Big C said:

 

I generally agree and understand. However, there doesn't seem to be another explanation for why we unleash more pressure packages. We basically rushed 4 and played zone the whole game and were picked apart like always. With that sorry bunch of receivers and Brady's limp arm we should have been more comfortable bringing more rushers. We did it more the first time we saw them and it worked very well. Now I know we had a crap ton of missed tackles but that is a different issue. 

 

To your second point, Brady has a ton of experience. Allen can develop those traits with more time. Accuracy issues for Allen have more to do with his patience and footwork, which we have already seen improvements on this season.

What's happening in the first half? So his footwork is wrong and he's rushing the throws due to nerves? 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[gobills1212]

3 hours ago, Buffbills716 said:

Allen DID NOT give this team a chance.  What game did you watch?  The last time I checked, both defense and offense need to play well.  Yes, the defense made mistakes, but you can't expect them to do everything.  

Yikes dude. Were you the one calling for Barkley?!

[whatdrought]

My god. The nancies around here. You’re all idiots. 

 

 

 

Also, after looking at the replay of the final play, Beasley jumped half a second too early for that ball. Hard task either way, but his timing was off a bit.

[london_bills]

7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

That's awesome. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Interesting observation after a great day of NFL football in which all 3 games had playoff implications. 

 

How did the QB's do?  Allen was the youngest & Brady was the oldest and we had some big names playing today.  So going by QB rating we have:

 

1)  Brady = 111;   1 TD/0 INT

2)  Allen = 103;   2 TD/0 INT

3)  Goff = 86;  2 TD/1 INT (1 Pick 6)

4)  Garoppolo = 71;   1 TD/2 INT

5)  Watson = 62;   0 TD/1 INT

6)  Winston = 47;   1 TD/4 INT (1 Pick 6)

 

Not bad showing by Allen all things considered.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

27 minutes ago, Big C said:

I don't know if anyone addressed this already, but does anyone think they tried to beat them with a more vanilla gameplan knowing the odds to take the division were next to nothing? Not wanting to put anything new on tape in case we see them a third time?

 

I do feel good about how these guys will play in January. I like that Allen threw no picks even if he was slow to get started. We were knocking on the door again. Third time's a charm?

I agree, and mentioned it in a few threads. It was quite clear they weren’t going to put any new stuff on film for the upcoming playoff game. They also likely think they could see NE again at some point. They still gave themselves a chance to win with a basic gameplan, but fundamentals were lacking on defense today. They made life miserable for Brady in the first meeting, but not even an attempt to do so this afternoon. A microscopic shot at the division title wasn’t worth sacrificing a possible win in the playoffs, where your first game could be your last. I think if we went into today with tied records, the gameplan would have reflected it. 

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Interesting observation after a great day of NFL football in which all 3 games had playoff implications. 

 

How did the QB's do?  Allen was the youngest & Brady was the oldest and we had some big names playing today.  So going by QB rating we have:

 

1)  Brady = 111;   1 TD/0 INT

2)  Allen = 103;   2 TD/0 INT

3)  Goff = 86;  2 TD/1 INT (1 Pick 6)

4)  Garoppolo = 71;   1 TD/2 INT

5)  Watson = 62;   0 TD/1 INT

6)  Winston = 47;   1 TD/4 INT (1 Pick 6)

 

Not bad showing by Allen all things considered.

 

 

He showed improvement from the first meeting , and we had a legitimate chance to send it to OT with a bit better job by Daboll imo. Back of the end zone fades are too low percentage for my liking in that game situation. The Bills have no receivers that can make a play on the ball there. It has to be perfect, as there isn’t a George Kittle or Kyle Rudolph to snare it on this roster. Anyway, Allen’s game today leaves me more confident than not that this team can get a WC round win in 2 weeks. 

[stevestojan]

We’re in the playoffs. 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Interesting observation after a great day of NFL football in which all 3 games had playoff implications. 

 

How did the QB's do?  Allen was the youngest & Brady was the oldest and we had some big names playing today.  So going by QB rating we have:

 

1)  Brady = 111;   1 TD/0 INT

2)  Allen = 103;   2 TD/0 INT

3)  Goff = 86;  2 TD/1 INT (1 Pick 6)

4)  Garoppolo = 71;   1 TD/2 INT

5)  Watson = 62;   0 TD/1 INT

6)  Winston = 47;   1 TD/4 INT (1 Pick 6)

 

Not bad showing by Allen all things considered.

 

 

 

I would also add that of the 6 QB's playing today only 2 threw for over 300 yards and they both lost.  And both of the 300 yard passers threw pick sixes.  It's clear to me that in these late season, playoff like dog fights throwing a pick 6 is a much more critical factor then throwing for over 300 yards.

 

 

 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Am I the only one who doesn't like this? This does two things:

 

*Cheapens the meaning of the reception when they win big games/makes it an every game thing regardless of result

*Sends the message that the fans are into moral victories and are accepting today's loss

 

I went on and on about how great the airport reception was last week, but this strikes me as embarrassing.

[london_bills]

1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Am I the only one who doesn't like this? This does two things:

 

*Cheapens the meaning of the reception when they win big games/makes it an every game thing regardless of result

*Sends the message that the fans are into moral victories and are accepting today's loss

 

I went on and on about how great the airport reception was last week, but this strikes me as embarrassing.

I never really thought of it like that. Fair point 

[Best Williams Available]

1 hour ago, stuvian said:

You can criticize our playcalling. You can criticize the refs. You can say there are no moral victories. 

 

What you cannot deny is that we belong on the field with the best teams in our conference. You cannot  deny that Josh Allen gets better with each successive week.

You cannot deny that Coach Clappy has expunged the ghosts of the Decade of Fail. You cannot deny that the front office of Pegula/Beane/McDermott is one for the ages .

 

We are nascent and Patriots are in decline. I don't deny that Belicheat called a great game but no one can deny that we are on the way up and they are getting older . 

 

We are going to get a second chance at either the Pats or Ravens. Who wants to play us now?

I mostly agree but you can’t exorcise the ghosts of the past until you drop an L on the Pats. You can’t be a true contender being the 2nd best team in your division. We’re close, but things need to progress quickly.

The Rams/Eagles were nascent but already declining. In this league (apart from NE) dynasties last 2-3 years. The window to take a title is short-lived.
 

I think we’re all frustrated that we saw a pretty poor effort by our squad but still had a chance to beat one of the best. NE played nearly flawless and better than late, and we were one play away. There’s hope there. Let’s hope on our second chance that both the coaches scheme and players execute better.

[atlbillsfan1975]

32 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I am not there but from the outside This is the definition of die hard fans. Win or lose they are cheering for you. 

[Big C]

10 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Am I the only one who doesn't like this? This does two things:

 

*Cheapens the meaning of the reception when they win big games/makes it an every game thing regardless of result

*Sends the message that the fans are into moral victories and are accepting today's loss

 

I went on and on about how great the airport reception was last week, but this strikes me as embarrassing.

 

If it were almost any other team and any other scenario maybe. I think it is a show of support like "don't worry we know you'll get them in the playoffs." The fans aren't giving up on them because they couldn't beat the dreaded Pats this time. It won't be the last time. 

[Locomark]

My disappointment today was our defense got shredded and looked pedestrian in the 2nd half. Zero sacks vs the Pats 4 sacks was a big difference maker in the game. That final drive it killed our TD chance. 

I expected our offense to score 20 and they would have done so had they not had to score the TD at the end. Way too many chunk plays against our defense today. If you are going to win on defense then your defense needs to bring it in big games. We didn’t. Guys like Milano, Oliver, Hughes didn’t have any plays that changed the course of the game and the front 7 needed that. Only the backend keeps making plays every week.