What are our offensive and defensive game plans to beat Baltimore?

[BananaB]

Have Tre shadow Andrews

[DollaBills]

Bills have to dominate and i mean DOMINATE T.O.P, Jackson and Ingram will inevitably take a chunk out of us, but if they arent on the field that much we minimize that

[Rc2catch]

Best case scenario is probably buffalo and Allen being able to handle the constant blitz pressure and stopping Lamar a couple times and getting up 10+ points. If Baltimore starts fast it’s game over, not sure they can be beat if they get a good lead 

[Richard Noggin]

7 hours ago, Mikey152 said:

 

You can't match up with the Raven's big package with your big package, or Lamar will run circles around you...The Bills need to combat that heavy personnel with speed.  We should have 5-6 linebackers and safeties on the field at all times.  Those guys can guard the perimeter and run around blocks in space...a S would make a 300lb fullback look silly on the edge.

 

 

There are CHILDREN reading this board.

 

Probably.

 

But as for your analysis, I'm not so sure safeties and smallish linebackers don't sometimes get swallowed up by more imposing blockers. I think the small package isn't always as effective as you're making it out to be.

 

Aye-oh.

[BehindTheWoodshed]

Me personally, I fear that the Bills defense is not equipped to stop the Ravens running attack.  I also do not think the Bills offense will be able to score enough points against the Ravens defense to make this a game. Best wishes to the Bills coaches who are developing the game plans for this week is about all I can offer!

[Patrick Duffy]

12 minutes ago, BehindTheWoodshed said:

Me personally, I fear that the Bills defense is not equipped to stop the Ravens running attack.  I also do not think the Bills offense will be able to score enough points against the Ravens defense to make this a game. Best wishes to the Bills coaches who are developing the game plans for this week is about all I can offer!

It might be the case, in any event I believe the Bills ST will have to make some big plays maybe in order to get this W. So we will see what they have planned. Will certainly be an interesting game.......I hope.

[Juice_32]

11 hours ago, Estro said:

I heard Michael Lombardi give a unique perspective on defending the Ravens on his podcast, GM Shuffle, a good listen, BTW.

 

He said you have to defend the Ravens offense like you defend a punt return, Lamar Jackson being the punt returner. Every one stay in their lanes, don't get outflanked, break down in space and tackle, other defenders rally to the ball.  

I agree with this for the most part. You have to be extremely disciplined to contain him. If the DEs crash, he’s going to burn you on the outside. 
 

It’s obviously easier said than done but you have to try to keep him from getting the edge. 
 

If we can contain Lamar and he beats us from the pocket/up the middle, so be it. I expect this defensive game plan to be very similar to what the Ravens did to Kap in the Super Bowl.  

[Mikey152]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

There are CHILDREN reading this board.

 

Probably.

 

But as for your analysis, I'm not so sure safeties and smallish linebackers don't sometimes get swallowed up by more imposing blockers. I think the small package isn't always as effective as you're making it out to be.

 

Aye-oh.

 

I know you were making a joke, but as for your point...you're right.  Ordinarily you wouldn't play nickel against 2 TE and a fullback or 3 TE.  But lets be real...nobody is really all that worried about Ingram grinding away between the tackles.  It's by far the lesser of two evils against the Ravens, and you can take it away with your offense (by getting in the lead).

 

I think the Bills, as far as the good defenses in the league go, match up well against this kind of offense.  They can put speed on the field without completely selling out thanks to their speed at LB and having 4 safeties (counting Neal) that can cover AND play close to the line.  Their versatility will be extremely useful in this game, as will the fact that they are comfortable in zone, which is key against Lamar so you can rally if he breaks contain.

 

Maybe I'm wrong and the Ravens steamroll us...but we all saw a version of this offense with Roman here, and there was even a time where ours was almost as dynamic.  The league caught up.  Just like they did in SF.  As creative as the run game is...the passing game is basic at best.  The BEST way to stop the Ravens is to get out to an early lead and make them play against the clock.  

Edited December 5, 2019 by Mikey152

[BuffaL0L0k0]

On 11/30/2019 at 2:07 PM, KD in CA said:

 

You mean like for a big meal?  Maybe pasta or something that will make him feel sluggish during the game?

LOL Big Time!

[RavensFan]

54 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

 

 But lets be real...nobody is really all that worried about Ingram grinding away between the tackles.  It's by far the lesser of two evils against the Ravens, and you can take it away with your offense (by getting in the lead).

 

Ingram has rush for 837 yards with a 5.0 average; why wouldn't a DC be worried about that? And falling behind won't make them change their game plan, unless it's by 17 or more (maybe 14 in the 2nd half). They're not the Cowboys; they won't stop running unless the defense can stop it.

 

(I need to send Jason Garrett a Christmas card for not taking the Ravens HC job.)

Edited December 5, 2019 by RavensFan

[Logic]

Cover 1 mentioned on Twitter that the last time Jackson came onto the field against the Bills -- and granted it was in garbage time in a Ravens blowout win -- the Bills came out in a 46 Bear front with Tremaine Edmunds in more of an edge/down-lineman role.

Can't help but wonder if that's their plan to stop him this time around. Don't forget that Leslie Frazier was a member of the '85 Bears defense, and he knows the strengths and weaknesses and capabilities of that type of defensive front.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Logic

[whatdrought]

 

Does this count as a gameplan?...

[PaattMaann]

12 minutes ago, RavensFan said:

 

Ingram has rush for 837 yards with a 5.0 average; why wouldn't a DC be worried about that? And falling behind won't make them change their game plan, unless it's by 17 or more (maybe 14 in the 2nd half). They're not the Cowboys; they won't stop running unless the defense can stop it.

 

(I need to send Jason Garrett a Christmas card for not taking the Ravens HC job.)

 

yea no clue what that dude is talking about, im plenty worried about Ingram. Im MOST worried about Ingram. Jam the middle of the field with bodies who are holding their lanes/gaps, and then FORCE contain on Lamar with whoever you designate. Easier said than done, but thats whats gotta happen. Force TE/WR to outside releases to take away easy completions from slants. Easier said than done, but thats whats gotta happen. Force Lamar to throw to the outside instead of the middle of the field. Ravens are a great offense....gonna take a complete effort and some outstanding individual plays to hold them under 20. 

[Say When...]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

Cover 1 mentioned on Twitter that the last time Jackson came onto the field against the Bills -- and granted it was in garbage time in a Ravens blowout win -- the Bills came out in a 46 Bear front with Tremaine Edmunds in more of an edge/down-lineman role.

Can't help but wonder if that's their plan to stop him this time around. Don't forget that Leslie Frazier was a member of the '85 Bears defense, and he knows the strengths and weaknesses and capabilities of that type of defensive front.

 

i've been calling the 46 in my head since Saturday, it's kryptonite is the spread 0 but i'm not sure that worries me with the way the Ravens are built.

 

talent will prevail at times so the challenge is to stay with it despite a couple of times they beat us or not...

[Say When...]

2 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

yea no clue what that dude is talking about, im plenty worried about Ingram. Im MOST worried about Ingram. Jam the middle of the field with bodies who are holding their lanes/gaps, and then FORCE contain on Lamar with whoever you designate. Easier said than done, but thats whats gotta happen. Force TE/WR to outside releases to take away easy completions from slants. Easier said than done, but thats whats gotta happen. Force Lamar to throw to the outside instead of the middle of the field. Ravens are a great offense....gonna take a complete effort and some outstanding individual plays to hold them under 20. 

 

i'm not minimizing Ingram but he's a 30 y/o back that got a decent workload last week, he's on the injury report and regardless of what that means it's late in the season also.

 

look at his game logs, they have him on a pitch count, consistently 13-16 carries a game (once he hit 19, in a tight win against the Mason led Stillers, probably to run out the clock), he does have a good YPC but that's more because D's are worried about Lamar.

 

Keep then middle stout and focus on Lamar with the rest, i don't think Ingram is even the secondary component with this game, he's a compliment to be aware about but I don't gameplan for Ingram to be successful.

[PaattMaann]

8 minutes ago, Say When... said:

 

i'm not minimizing Ingram but he's a 30 y/o back that got a decent workload last week, he's on the injury report and regardless of what that means it's late in the season also.

 

look at his game logs, they have him on a pitch count, consistently 13-16 carries a game (once he hit 19, in a tight win against the Mason led Stillers, probably to run out the clock), he does have a good YPC but that's more because D's are worried about Lamar.

 

Keep then middle stout and focus on Lamar with the rest, i don't think Ingram is even the secondary component with this game, he's a compliment to be aware about but I don't gameplan for Ingram to be successful.

 

Im worried about Ingram/Edwards and the their entire inside rushing game...they are gonna get their yards, we gotta stuff the middle, which we have NOT been good at for two seasons now. HOPEFULLY we have fixed it (kind of) by scheme changes and adding Liuget, but we will find out sunday. We HAVE to gameplan to FIRST stop the middle rushes. 

[Putin]

I think will be running the ball all day and lots of play action !!!

GO BILLS !!!

[Buffalo Junction]

21 minutes ago, Logic said:

Cover 1 mentioned on Twitter that the last time Jackson came onto the field against the Bills -- and granted it was in garbage time in a Ravens blowout win -- the Bills came out in a 46 Bear front with Tremaine Edmunds in more of an edge/down-lineman role.

Can't help but wonder if that's their plan to stop him this time around. Don't forget that Leslie Frazier was a member of the '85 Bears defense, and he knows the strengths and weaknesses and capabilities of that type of defensive front.

I think the basis for what McD and Frazier come up with will stem from Jim Johnson influences. Here’s a tidbit on what Johnson did to contain Vick... Keep in mind that McD and Harbough were on that staff. 

 

”Johnson had some great game plans over the years. I think you have to start with the NFC title game after the 2004 season. The Falcons came to Lincoln Financial Field as a red-hot offense, putting up 31 points and more than 200 rushing yards in the previous five games. Johnson knew he had to contain quarterback Michael Vick, one of the league's most explosive playmakers. The Eagles also had to limit running back Warrick Dunn, who had run for more than 1,100 yards that season.

 

Johnson came up with a simple, but brilliant twist. He moved Jevon Kearse from left end to right end and flipped Derrick Burgess to the left side. Vick was a left-handed quarterback and was deadly when he took off running to his left (the right side of the defense). Putting an athlete like Kearse at right end took away Vick's normal advantage. Most defensive ends didn't have the speed or agility to handle Vick. Kearse was nicknamed The Freak for a reason.

 

The Eagles didn't blitz much in the game, but did use a lot of eight-man fronts. They wanted to keep the Falcons from running. Johnson would have the extra defender come into the box at the last moment so Vick would have less time to examine the defense and know what was going to happen. The Eagles dared Vick to pass, but didn't want him to know what the coverage was going to look like until the last second.

 

Vick averaged seven runs per game that season. The Eagles limited him to just four. The Eagles sacked Vick four times, with Burgess getting a pair of them. The ends contained Vick's running and Trotter, who returned that season, stuffed the inside run plays. The Falcons finished the game with just 202 total yards and 10 points. Atlanta led the NFL in rushing that year, but only mustered 103 yards against the Eagles. Johnson came up with a great scheme and Kearse, Burgess, and the rest of the players executed it brilliantly.”

 

https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/lawlor-jim-johnson-was-the-mastermind-19025661

[RavensFan]

14 minutes ago, Say When... said:

 

i'm not minimizing Ingram but he's a 30 y/o back that got a decent workload last week, he's on the injury report and regardless of what that means it's late in the season also.

 

look at his game logs, they have him on a pitch count, consistently 13-16 carries a game (once he hit 19, in a tight win against the Mason led Stillers, probably to run out the clock), he does have a good YPC but that's more because D's are worried about Lamar.

 

Keep then middle stout and focus on Lamar with the rest, i don't think Ingram is even the secondary component with this game, he's a compliment to be aware about but I don't gameplan for Ingram to be successful.

 

He's on the injury report because of the standard "veteran's day off" that Harbaugh gives to the older guys almost every week, not because of injury. It means he'll be fully rested. His "pitch count" is due to them having Gus Edwards, who has 460 yards @5.1 YPC (and over 700 in only 11 games last year), not because he's old. Late in the game, they're still both fresh.

[Say When...]

5 minutes ago, RavensFan said:

 

He's on the injury report because of the standard "veteran's day off" that Harbaugh gives to the older guys almost every week, not because of injury. It means he'll be fully rested. His "pitch count" is due to them having Gus Edwards, who has 460 yards @5.1 YPC (and over 700 in only 11 games last year), not because he's old. Late in the game, they're still both fresh.

 

a couple of good games against suspect D's is what makes up Edwards season, a younger ingram, maybe not as talented but i agree he's used to spell Ingram.  Still a between the tackles runner so the gameplan is the same.

 

take out his 14 YPC game against Houston (not very good run D) and he's 'OK'.  BTW - 6 for 15 against SFO 2.9 YPC

 

no doubt you guys have accounted for weaknesses from the 2018 season and it's been very successful, i just think the Bills strengths match up well here.

 

I go in stopping the run period, regardless of who it is carrying the rock, the passing game without a running game isn't scary.

 

Harbaugh knows his limitations, why he played so aggressive in the Chiefs game, they can put up points in a hurry and he was pushing the envelope to counter that because he knows, if his team gets down by 2 scores their O isn't built to come from behind.  and it appears he's adopted that attitude for every game, and it's working.

 

Bills don't have a potent O (at all) but they are patient, methodical and for the last few games, mistake free.  They can 'quietly' put points on the board and wear down D's.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I think the basis for what McD and Frazier come up with will stem from Jim Johnson influences. Here’s a tidbit on what Johnson did to contain Vick... Keep in mind that McD and Harbough were on that staff. 

 

”Johnson had some great game plans over the years. I think you have to start with the NFC title game after the 2004 season. The Falcons came to Lincoln Financial Field as a red-hot offense, putting up 31 points and more than 200 rushing yards in the previous five games. Johnson knew he had to contain quarterback Michael Vick, one of the league's most explosive playmakers. The Eagles also had to limit running back Warrick Dunn, who had run for more than 1,100 yards that season.

 

Johnson came up with a simple, but brilliant twist. He moved Jevon Kearse from left end to right end and flipped Derrick Burgess to the left side. Vick was a left-handed quarterback and was deadly when he took off running to his left (the right side of the defense). Putting an athlete like Kearse at right end took away Vick's normal advantage. Most defensive ends didn't have the speed or agility to handle Vick. Kearse was nicknamed The Freak for a reason.

 

The Eagles didn't blitz much in the game, but did use a lot of eight-man fronts. They wanted to keep the Falcons from running. Johnson would have the extra defender come into the box at the last moment so Vick would have less time to examine the defense and know what was going to happen. The Eagles dared Vick to pass, but didn't want him to know what the coverage was going to look like until the last second.

 

Vick averaged seven runs per game that season. The Eagles limited him to just four. The Eagles sacked Vick four times, with Burgess getting a pair of them. The ends contained Vick's running and Trotter, who returned that season, stuffed the inside run plays. The Falcons finished the game with just 202 total yards and 10 points. Atlanta led the NFL in rushing that year, but only mustered 103 yards against the Eagles. Johnson came up with a great scheme and Kearse, Burgess, and the rest of the players executed it brilliantly.”

 

https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/lawlor-jim-johnson-was-the-mastermind-19025661

Outstanding post, thanks!

I especially like the bolded parts, as it relates to the Bills. Tremaine Edmunds might play the part of the "speedy, agile" defender formerly filled by Kearse.

As far as not wanting the QB to know what the coverage was going to look like until the last second -- the Bills defense is as good at disguising coverages as any team in the league.

Should be a very interesting Sunday. 

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Junction said:

I think the basis for what McD and Frazier come up with will stem from Jim Johnson influences. Here’s a tidbit on what Johnson did to contain Vick... Keep in mind that McD and Harbough were on that staff. 

 

”Johnson had some great game plans over the years. I think you have to start with the NFC title game after the 2004 season. The Falcons came to Lincoln Financial Field as a red-hot offense, putting up 31 points and more than 200 rushing yards in the previous five games. Johnson knew he had to contain quarterback Michael Vick, one of the league's most explosive playmakers. The Eagles also had to limit running back Warrick Dunn, who had run for more than 1,100 yards that season.

 

Johnson came up with a simple, but brilliant twist. He moved Jevon Kearse from left end to right end and flipped Derrick Burgess to the left side. Vick was a left-handed quarterback and was deadly when he took off running to his left (the right side of the defense). Putting an athlete like Kearse at right end took away Vick's normal advantage. Most defensive ends didn't have the speed or agility to handle Vick. Kearse was nicknamed The Freak for a reason.

 

The Eagles didn't blitz much in the game, but did use a lot of eight-man fronts. They wanted to keep the Falcons from running. Johnson would have the extra defender come into the box at the last moment so Vick would have less time to examine the defense and know what was going to happen. The Eagles dared Vick to pass, but didn't want him to know what the coverage was going to look like until the last second.

 

Vick averaged seven runs per game that season. The Eagles limited him to just four. The Eagles sacked Vick four times, with Burgess getting a pair of them. The ends contained Vick's running and Trotter, who returned that season, stuffed the inside run plays. The Falcons finished the game with just 202 total yards and 10 points. Atlanta led the NFL in rushing that year, but only mustered 103 yards against the Eagles. Johnson came up with a great scheme and Kearse, Burgess, and the rest of the players executed it brilliantly.”

 

https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/lawlor-jim-johnson-was-the-mastermind-19025661

 

Exactly what a few of us have suggested: stack the edges and don't give Jackson a chance to make post-snap reads. It's a solid plan.

[PaattMaann]

19 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Exactly what a few of us have suggested: stack the edges and don't give Jackson a chance to make post-snap reads. It's a solid plan.

 

and simple and relies on execution. Players gotta play. Love it. 

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Outstanding post, thanks!

I especially like the bolded parts, as it relates to the Bills. Tremaine Edmunds might play the part of the "speedy, agile" defender formerly filled by Kearse.

As far as not wanting the QB to know what the coverage was going to look like until the last second -- the Bills defense is as good at disguising coverages as any team in the league.

Should be a very interesting Sunday. 

I’m not sure that they’ll use Edmunds for that role. They could very well park him on TEs all afternoon and use Poyer or Hyde as spies. Part of what makes this game so interesting is that McD and Frazier have had time to draw some things up. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see them crack out some Eagle D with Lorax over the center, or blitz CBs with “contain” assignments on occasion. 
 

 

[Alphadawg7]

Offense plan:  Score more points than Balt.

Defesive plan:  Hold Balt to less points than us.

 

60% of the time it works every time.

[mannc]

It will be interesting to see if the Bills defer if they win the toss.  I think the Ravens lead the league in first possession TDs and I think it's important for the Bills not to get behind early.   If I were McDermott, I'd want the ball first. 

[GG]

As long as the defense remains disciplined, they should do fine.

 

Wentz exploited their over aggressiveness and abandoned responsibilities.  It will be a nightmare if they start chasing Lamar.  

[H2o]

Watch this game. About 45 minutes into the video you see how Clemson adjusts their defensive approach to contain Jackson running the football for the rest of the game. He still gets his passing yards and 3 TD's, but it stymie's the Louisville offense with him not being able to get off rushing the football. Just past the 1hr 2 minute mark Herbstreit gives a quality breakdown about containing him. You have to pound him when you get the chance as well. 

 

[MTBill]

I just saw this article.  Didn't see it posted here (but didn't search super hard).  It's from Yardbarker.

Edited December 6, 2019 by MTBill
fix typo - Yardbarker

[RavensFan]

33 minutes ago, MTBill said:

I just saw this article.  Didn't see it posted here (but didn't search super hard).  It's from Yardbarker.

 

Here's what some coaches have said:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2863553-what-nfl-defenses-must-do-to-try-to-stop-lamar-jackson-and-the-ravens

 

That kind of scared me, and he's on my team. His ability to quickly recognize and counter defensive schemes is a complete surprise. And it was written before he carved up the Rams.

Edited December 6, 2019 by RavensFan

[Scott7975]

23 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I could be wrong but I think Wallace has been losing some snap counts with Taron Johnson healthy. Taron was in on 85% of the defensive snaps against the Cowboys, and Kevin Johnson was in on some too.

 

Wallace is still getting his share of playing time, but Taron getting healthy again is good for this team and gives them a lot of options in the secondary.

 

That being said, this game will be won or lost in the trenches and the box. Would help if our offense got off to a fast start, but I see McD giving the Ravens offense the ball to start the game even if we win the toss.

 

Teams seem to always take that first possession and score on us so I am not sure what advantage deferring buys us?

 

 

 

 

 

 

It gives us the chance at scoring at the end of the half and the beginning of the new half.

[Dablitzkrieg]

On 12/3/2019 at 8:58 AM, Freddie's Dead said:

"The quarterback must go down, and he must go down hard." - Al Davis

At the mesh point, Lamar needs to get hit every single time.  Be as physical as possible within the rules.  Maybe even take a penalty

[Freddie's Dead]

14 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

At the mesh point, Lamar needs to get hit every single time.  Be as physical as possible within the rules.  Maybe even take a penalty

 

Maybe?  There's no maybe 

[SCBills]

15 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

At the mesh point, Lamar needs to get hit every single time.  Be as physical as possible within the rules.  Maybe even take a penalty

Completely agree.   If he wants to ride the back all the way down the LOS, hit him.  I don’t care if he’s obviously handed it off.  He’s a willing runner who needs to be treated as such. 
 

Drives me crazy that other teams seem to be approaching this idea with kid gloves as we constantly see players ease up and get caught in no man’s land while the run goes for 8 yards and Lamar is standing there untouched.  
 

Edited December 6, 2019 by SCBills

[LJs Bodyguard]

On 12/5/2019 at 10:24 AM, Say When... said:

 

i'm not minimizing Ingram but he's a 30 y/o back that got a decent workload last week, he's on the injury report and regardless of what that means it's late in the season also.

 

look at his game logs, they have him on a pitch count, consistently 13-16 carries a game (once he hit 19, in a tight win against the Mason led Stillers, probably to run out the clock), he does have a good YPC but that's more because D's are worried about Lamar.

 

Keep then middle stout and focus on Lamar with the rest, i don't think Ingram is even the secondary component with this game, he's a compliment to be aware about but I don't gameplan for Ingram to be successful.

Ingram is good, but as a Ravens fan, I gotta get a mention in with our other bulldozer running back, Gus, the Bus! edwards who is 238. The usual running load is Ingram at 15-20 carries, and Gus Edwards at 10-15 carries who is also averaging 5 yards a carry. We have started to mix in our rookie RB, Justice Hill, who is a straight speed back (I think he runs a 4.3).

[GG]

1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

At the mesh point, Lamar needs to get hit every single time.  Be as physical as possible within the rules.  Maybe even take a penalty

 

Watching the All-22, it's obvious that the way to contain him is to hit his as much as possible.  Easier said than done, though.

 

I'm really worried about their run game.  SF had no idea who was going to run the ball.

[SmokinES3]

29 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Watching the All-22, it's obvious that the way to contain him is to hit his as much as possible.  Easier said than done, though.

 

I'm really worried about their run game.  SF had no idea who was going to run the ball.

SF did have 2 starting rookie Linebackers. That probably wasn't ideal.

[GoBills808]

Defense- get them into 3rd down situations which means limiting big first down gains. I would expect heavy packages and run blitz on early downs.

 

Offense- get Singletary going early. Use McKenzie and Foster a few times on sweep motion to keep LBs honest. If secondary creeps down on run have Allen hit Brown deep.

[CorkScrewHill]

More of this .. sorry not the perfect thread to post this in .. but not cool enough yet to start my own thread . breaks down the play call and the play from Brown to Motor

 

[transplantbillsfan]

On defense, I seriously want to see 7 guys in the box the whole game with an 8th "ghost" spying Jackson on every play. And I mean I still want that guy lurking at the line at the snap to disguise things. I would like to see that rotate between Edmunds and Milano to keep LJ offguard.

 

Run blitz every play and let Tre, Wallace/Johnson and our fantastic Safety duo handle the coverage.

 

With the super windy forecast, I think this should be the plan.