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What are our offensive and defensive game plans to beat Baltimore?

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7 hours ago, DJB said:

My suggestion  is a spy on Lamar. Maybe even both Edmunds  and Milano to contain the outside. Lamar loves running to the outside. Keep contain and shut down Lamar.

 

Their entire offence is Lamar running, then Ingram then a short pass to a TE. 

 

It's not that complicated  to me.

 

I agree, I think you need Edmunds & Milano to stay in zone/spying on Jackson, one safety deep, man on the outsides, 4 rushers, occasional zone blitzes. Pretty straight forward, it's just about the execution.

 

I think Buffalo's defense is perfectly constructed to give Jackson a sub-par day... provided that Edmunds shows a comparable leap in development as Allen has shown, or Oliver, or Shaq, or Phillips... he's just gotta turn the corner on his anticipation and timing and feel for it to be at the right place at the right time. 

On 11/30/2019 at 4:01 PM, Boatdrinks said:

Simply put , the Bills will have to win this one on offense. Long drives, milk the clock and score TDs. Their no huddle has been effective, but the downside is using less clock. It will be interesting to see if the 49ers are able to keep the Ravens in check with their defense. Perhaps the Bills can get a few ideas from that. 

 

Niners showed today how an effective running game can do just that. As it so happens, our running game is versatile with Singletary, Gore, and Allen each providing a different style of run play that can be used at any time. 

 

Bills would need to play as good or better than they played on Thanksgiving. We're at home. It could happen.

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8 hours ago, DJB said:

My suggestion  is a spy on Lamar. Maybe even both Edmunds  and Milano to contain the outside. Lamar loves running to the outside. Keep contain and shut down Lamar.

 

Their entire offence is Lamar running, then Ingram then a short pass to a TE. 

 

It's not that complicated  to me.

Bingo!!

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On 11/30/2019 at 1:58 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

On defense, they're friggin good. #4 in defensive DVOA.

 

On offense, they're friggin good. #1 in offensive DVOA.

 

I honestly haven't watched them enough to form an opinion.

 

They're #3 in pass defense DVOA but #24 in rush defense DVOA. So is this a Singletary game? Are they weaker on the interior or on the edges? Are they weaker at CB or Safety? Do we continue with what we're doing and just tell Josh if he sees a path to run, do it but protect yourself? I really hope we don't do a bunch of designed QB runs.

 

We all know Lamar is the story with the offense, but Mark Ingram is EXACTLY the type of RB we have tons of problems with. Personally I want to see Frazier just dial up TONS of pressure on both run and pass blitzes and go for broke. Put 8 up front and emphasize gap responsibilities and containment on the edges and let the secondary earn their stripes. Lamar and Ingram will undoubtedly make some large chunk plays, but maybe this forces some mistakes, too.

 

As far as the weather gods, do we really want utterly terrible WNY weather? Doesn't that typically benefit the offense?

 

We're more than a week away from this game and this game more than the NE game in Foxborough will be our most difficult test.

 

 

In the hopes the Bills coaches and players aren’t just passing the roulette gun from Deer Hunter around One Bills Drive I’m looking forward to them just plain lining up and going with “ourzin is better than yourzin.”

 

...I just don’t want them to play afraid of this team...this Bills team being cautious is maddening.

 

edit: to go a step further I actually want their mindset to be how they take Baltimore out to the woodshed, to be honest.

Edited by dollars 2 donuts

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On 11/30/2019 at 2:15 PM, HappyDays said:

I'm not too worried about our offense in this game. It took some time but we found our identity and we have enough talent to create a mismatch somewhere on the field. Feed the ball to Singletary and let Allen do what he does. We'll put up points.

 

The defense on the other hand I am terrified for. We are built to stop the pass and that won't help in this game. I think we just have to clog the middle of the field and force Jackson to throw to the sidelines. Edmunds is athletic enough to keep him in check as a spy. Just don't let Ingram run all over us and don't give any free space in the middle. That's our only hope of stopping them.

 

McDermott and Frazier have done a really good job of game planning against QBs so I expect them to limit Jackson more than most.

Basic responsibility football.  De's have to hold contain.  Key force 3rd and long.  Make Lamar pick you apart through the air.  It a ball control game.  Buffalo has to stop Ingram in the middle and Jackson on the boundaries.  McDermott and the coaches getting a few extra day should be a big boost in coming up with the gameplan.

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I don't know if this is what we do, but I believe it is what we should do. Since the Ravens are basically running a college style, option type offense we need to run a 30 Stack or 4-4 type of defense in appearance. I know McDermott and Frazier love their zone, but we will have to man up a lot more this week. Instead of a LB, we should have Neal or Coleman in the lineup at all times with another S around the box. The Ravens love to run those multiple TE sets. Having Neal or Coleman out there would give them guys with the covering ability to keep up as well as be able to stick their head in there against the run. Poyer likely needs to be the other S kept in the box on either edge or stacked just behind Edmunds. Kevin Johnson also needs to get the start with him being the better overall defender than Wallace. Murphy also should not see the field much on Sunday as it will be imperative to have containment on the edge against the run, not one of his strong suits. Lawson needs to play 80% of the snaps this week. I'm hoping for a lineup like this:

 

Hughes, the DT rotation of Liuget/Phillips/Oliver/Star, Lawson on the DL (Lorax filling in @ DE this week for the most part)

Milano, Edmunds, Neal/Coleman, Poyer on the second level

White, Hyde, Johnson playing on the last line.

 

If we can't stop the run to a certain extent then we will lose this game. The DE's are going to have to be disciplined in setting the edge. You do want to get pressure if possible, but you absolutely CANNOT lose contain on Jackson. You have to force him back inside to the guys playing on the interior and that second level who hopefully play with gap integrity this week while making necessary tackles. Ideally, you contain Jackson in the pocket and force him to beat you throwing the ball. I know he has some gaudy TD numbers overall, but his legs are still the most effective thing he has. Contain the edges, clog the middle, and force him make those reads. He loves throwing the ball in the middle of the field. Force him to make those throws outside of the hashes to the deeper intermediate area. Tre will have to be on Brown all day. Johnson's responsibility will be Snead, Boykin, whoever. Hyde will be playing center field basically. They may try to spread us out if this is effective against their run game, but I wouldn't vary much in personnel or formations outside of Taron Johnson on the field for Coleman or Neal when they go with 3 WR sets. 

 

Offensively we just have to keep doing what we have been doing for the last 3 weeks or so. Get the run game going, let Josh be Josh, and hopefully Daboll stays in attack mode for 60 minutes. This is the first time in a long time I am really pleased with the way things are going on offense. Time of possession and TO's will again play a large role this week. If we are on the winning side of both of those stats then I believe we will be on the winning side of the final score. Our WR's match up well with their DB's imo and I think Knox could have a big game as his size/athleticism presents a tough matchup for their Safeties/LB's. Watch out for the double moves against Peters. He loves to try and jump routes and I think Daboll/Josh take advantage of that. I see him getting beaten for a couple of big gains this week by Brown or Foster. That was his m.o. in LA and KC. 

 

 

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Defensively, obviously they'll need to contain Lamar. Offensively, looked like the Niners had some success running on the edges so I'm sure Daboll will take that into account. Might be a good time to dig into his bag of tricks again too. 

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1 hour ago, H2o said:

I don't know if this is what we do, but I believe it is what we should do. Since the Ravens are basically running a college style, option type offense we need to run a 30 Stack or 4-4 type of defense in appearance. I know McDermott and Frazier love their zone, but we will have to man up a lot more this week. Instead of a LB, we should have Neal or Coleman in the lineup at all times with another S around the box. The Ravens love to run those multiple TE sets. Having Neal or Coleman out there would give them guys with the covering ability to keep up as well as be able to stick their head in there against the run. Poyer likely needs to be the other S kept in the box on either edge or stacked just behind Edmunds. Kevin Johnson also needs to get the start with him being the better overall defender than Wallace. Murphy also should not see the field much on Sunday as it will be imperative to have containment on the edge against the run, not one of his strong suits. Lawson needs to play 80% of the snaps this week. I'm hoping for a lineup like this:

 

Hughes, the DT rotation of Liuget/Phillips/Oliver/Star, Lawson on the DL (Lorax filling in @ DE this week for the most part)

Milano, Edmunds, Neal/Coleman, Poyer on the second level

White, Hyde, Johnson playing on the last line.

 

If we can't stop the run to a certain extent then we will lose this game. The DE's are going to have to be disciplined in setting the edge. You do want to get pressure if possible, but you absolutely CANNOT lose contain on Jackson. You have to force him back inside to the guys playing on the interior and that second level who hopefully play with gap integrity this week while making necessary tackles. Ideally, you contain Jackson in the pocket and force him to beat you throwing the ball. I know he has some gaudy TD numbers overall, but his legs are still the most effective thing he has. Contain the edges, clog the middle, and force him make those reads. He loves throwing the ball in the middle of the field. Force him to make those throws outside of the hashes to the deeper intermediate area. Tre will have to be on Brown all day. Johnson's responsibility will be Snead, Boykin, whoever. Hyde will be playing center field basically. They may try to spread us out if this is effective against their run game, but I wouldn't vary much in personnel or formations outside of Taron Johnson on the field for Coleman or Neal when they go with 3 WR sets. 

 

Offensively we just have to keep doing what we have been doing for the last 3 weeks or so. Get the run game going, let Josh be Josh, and hopefully Daboll stays in attack mode for 60 minutes. This is the first time in a long time I am really pleased with the way things are going on offense. Time of possession and TO's will again play a large role this week. If we are on the winning side of both of those stats then I believe we will be on the winning side of the final score. Our WR's match up well with their DB's imo and I think Knox could have a big game as his size/athleticism presents a tough matchup for their Safeties/LB's. Watch out for the double moves against Peters. He loves to try and jump routes and I think Daboll/Josh take advantage of that. I see him getting beaten for a couple of big gains this week by Brown or Foster. That was his m.o. in LA and KC. 

 

 

 

But isn't the whole point of our defensive identity that we can play base or nickel and have LBers that dont provide a drop off in pass coverage?  Like, aren't we one of the only teams that can do that?  I thought we were built specifically to stop the Patriots' multiple tight end run sets without getting gashed by said tight ends in the passing game.

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Just now, BringBackFlutie said:

 

But isn't the whole point of our defensive identity that we can play base or nickel and have LBers that dont provide a drop off in pass coverage?  Like, aren't we one of the only teams that can do that?  I thought we were built specifically to stop the Patriots' multiple tight end run sets without getting gashed by said tight ends in the passing game.

Lorax is not going to get it done in this situation, trying to contain Jackson or covering a TE. We will need to swap out a S in his spot this week. It was mentioned in another thread by @plenzmd1 if I am not mistaken and after considering it with the scheming options I believe it is the way to go. 

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12 minutes ago, H2o said:

Lorax is not going to get it done in this situation, trying to contain Jackson or covering a TE. We will need to swap out a S in his spot this week. It was mentioned in another thread by @plenzmd1 if I am not mistaken and after considering it with the scheming options I believe it is the way to go. 

 

 

hmmm, yeah...I am uneasy about this H2.  

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Play Robert Foster at LB for the sheer purpose of being the QB spy for Jackson hahahahaha

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1 hour ago, H2o said:

I don't know if this is what we do, but I believe it is what we should do. Since the Ravens are basically running a college style, option type offense we need to run a 30 Stack or 4-4 type of defense in appearance. I know McDermott and Frazier love their zone, but we will have to man up a lot more this week. Instead of a LB, we should have Neal or Coleman in the lineup at all times with another S around the box. The Ravens love to run those multiple TE sets. Having Neal or Coleman out there would give them guys with the covering ability to keep up as well as be able to stick their head in there against the run. Poyer likely needs to be the other S kept in the box on either edge or stacked just behind Edmunds. Kevin Johnson also needs to get the start with him being the better overall defender than Wallace. Murphy also should not see the field much on Sunday as it will be imperative to have containment on the edge against the run, not one of his strong suits. Lawson needs to play 80% of the snaps this week. I'm hoping for a lineup like this:

 

Hughes, the DT rotation of Liuget/Phillips/Oliver/Star, Lawson on the DL (Lorax filling in @ DE this week for the most part)

Milano, Edmunds, Neal/Coleman, Poyer on the second level

White, Hyde, Johnson playing on the last line.

 

If we can't stop the run to a certain extent then we will lose this game. The DE's are going to have to be disciplined in setting the edge. You do want to get pressure if possible, but you absolutely CANNOT lose contain on Jackson. You have to force him back inside to the guys playing on the interior and that second level who hopefully play with gap integrity this week while making necessary tackles. Ideally, you contain Jackson in the pocket and force him to beat you throwing the ball. I know he has some gaudy TD numbers overall, but his legs are still the most effective thing he has. Contain the edges, clog the middle, and force him make those reads. He loves throwing the ball in the middle of the field. Force him to make those throws outside of the hashes to the deeper intermediate area. Tre will have to be on Brown all day. Johnson's responsibility will be Snead, Boykin, whoever. Hyde will be playing center field basically. They may try to spread us out if this is effective against their run game, but I wouldn't vary much in personnel or formations outside of Taron Johnson on the field for Coleman or Neal when they go with 3 WR sets. 

 

Offensively we just have to keep doing what we have been doing for the last 3 weeks or so. Get the run game going, let Josh be Josh, and hopefully Daboll stays in attack mode for 60 minutes. This is the first time in a long time I am really pleased with the way things are going on offense. Time of possession and TO's will again play a large role this week. If we are on the winning side of both of those stats then I believe we will be on the winning side of the final score. Our WR's match up well with their DB's imo and I think Knox could have a big game as his size/athleticism presents a tough matchup for their Safeties/LB's. Watch out for the double moves against Peters. He loves to try and jump routes and I think Daboll/Josh take advantage of that. I see him getting beaten for a couple of big gains this week by Brown or Foster. That was his m.o. in LA and KC. 

 

 

image.thumb.png.7522bd9305d655662e9ed1d7a8139f2c.png

Look at his stats in the first 6 weeks. When he threw the ball 30+ times they struggled a lot more. Nothing is a sure shot in this game but making Lamar throw gives us the best chance. Tre and Johnson will have to lock down the WR man-to-man.  I would have the linebackers never break the LOS really, dont pursue upfield. Just run laterally to contain the bigger runs. All of this is much easier said than done obviously.

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The best way to beat Lamar Jackson is to keep the lead all game and make him beat us. Get out to an early lead and this team is beatable. Don't think we are going to stop the run. We just need to slow them down enough to give Josh and the offense opportunities to pull ahead. This offense mixes up some trickery with power run schemes and is very difficult to stop. With Jackson's ability to take off, the job just gets harder.

 

Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. That is going to be especially true against this team. Some nice long drives to give our defense time to rest is going to be key in this game. If we are playing from behind and they just keep running at us in the second half, this game is over. Hopefully the defense can force a couple of punts in this game. Tough sledding though. This is a classic time of possession game. Win that, we likely win the game.

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On 11/30/2019 at 3:29 PM, ChicagoRic said:

Interesting article on this.  You don't blitz Lamar Jackson often and you don't key on his runs.  You flood the field with DBS/Speed guys.  https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/theres-a-blueprint-for-stopping-lamar-jackson-but-teams-arent-using-it/

 

vs niners they said that’s why they’ve move to a more power run game and got Engram.  

 

I see Bills going nickel zone but I wonder about using treD in the slot and have him responsible for Lamar.  

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

vs niners they said that’s why they’ve move to a more power run game and got Engram.  

 

I see Bills going nickel zone but I wonder about using treD in the slot and have him responsible for Lamar.  

 

 

 

one thing i'm not sure is mentioned in here is that mcd practiced against cam all those years so should have an idea on how to stop a mobile qb.  

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"First and foremost, we can't "beat ourselves". Turnovers, penalties, clock management and Special Teams cannot be a problem. We have to play a "clean" game. After that, we have to take the mindset of "we're a tougher team". We need to be the more physical team on both sides of the ball. Let Zeke know "it ain't happening today". Pound that depleted D-line and LB corp. of theirs. Essentially see this game as a fight and kick their :censored: ass."

 

I wrote the above for the Dallas game and it applies to this game too. We took a few too many penalties to begin the game but overcame. We did have a bad game from Hauschka and overcame. This team doesn't quit.

We need to be more physical on both sides of the trenches. Essentially see this game as a fight and kick their :censored: ass."

Defensively, keep them in front of us and make them have to drive for anything they get. Play on their side of the LOS. I believe their center is now on IR. Star, Phillips, Oliver and Shaq will be key.

Offensively, we need no turnovers, sustained drives, Josh needs to spread the wealth, Knox and Kroft need to play big, and we need TD's vs. FG's.

 

 

 

Let's go Bills!!!!

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31 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

one thing i'm not sure is mentioned in here is that mcd practiced against cam all those years so should have an idea on how to stop a mobile qb.  

 

If Lamar has taught us anything it’s that there are multiple brands of QB mobility. 

 

Josh is much more like Cam. 

 

Lamar is the fastest guy on the field. That’s a different type of mobility imo 

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On offense: Play fast and fearless. Keep up with the up tempo and no huddle. Don't abandon the run. 

On defense: Pray.

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We have a ton of speed on Defense. I am more worried about containing ingram and their power run game, than I am about chasing Lamar. Mark my words on this: Micah Hyde is the #1 factor of this game. Both in the run, and in the pass defense. 

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This one will be tough, no doubt.

 

The Ravens have a good coaching staff -- and will not foolishly cease to do what works well for them against us like the Cowboys did. So I do not expect to see Jackson dropping back to pass 30+ times.

 

Jackson is careful with the ball -- and happy to throw it underneath or pick up 6-8 yard chunk plays with his legs. Hence, the usual bend-but-don't break defense that has worked so well for us may not be the best bet this week. The coaches are going to have to trust the DBs to play on an island and apply plenty of pressure up front without breaking containment on the outside.

 

In his young career, (and unlike other running QBs like Cam) it seems that Jackson is already getting help from the officials, as the 49ers were repeatedly flagged yesterday for "roughing the passer" on very questionable calls. Our front 7 will have to be careful in these regards -- but also must stay aggressive and get a sound pop on Jackson whenever they can. Perhaps they can get a jump on the gamesmanship this week by choosing their words very carefully -- (e.g. avoid saying things like "If he is going to run treat him like a running back...") to prevent any sort of official's bias.

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16 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

We have a ton of speed on Defense. I am more worried about containing ingram and their power run game, than I am about chasing Lamar. Mark my words on this: Micah Hyde is the #1 factor of this game. Both in the run, and in the pass defense. 

I like our chances against the pass, so the key is stopping the run and keeping Lamar in front of you on the RPOs and his runs. Gap integrity/staying in your lanes is huge and I am going to say we will see a fair amount of zone in the middle of the field with the LBs/S and CBs playing man. I don't think we will see a lot of blitzing, unless we are shredding their OL; Jackson will run if we blitz too much. 

 

Offense is going to be tough sledding and will be up to Josh to find the open WR/TE/RB quickly. I like the Ravens DBs better than our WR core. I am thinking this is going to be a Kroft & Knox heavy set OL and attacking the middle of the field with them. 

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I dont understand how the niners let lamar rollout on the fake hand offs many times and one for a td, if bills wont bite on that it could save some points

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I don't like linebackers spying Lamar primarily because it opens up passing lanes.  I think the biggest test here is just sheer physicality.  That's the Ravens and that's always been Greg Roman, we know this.  They are going to get after it in the trenches.  You just have to win there.  If you can't win there then there's going to be trouble.  Roman really hasn't changed the game plan that much because teams are having issues stopping what they are doing, and I suspect that he won't veer away from what they've been doing all season until someone is able to stop them.  Gotta save the other stuff for teams you'll see again.  So I expect to see a lot of the stuff they've already done, so it just comes down to physicality.

 

I like the idea of sending 5 on a contain rush but the problem there will be guys have to stay very disciplined in the middle or Jackson just runs up the middle.  It's certainly a problem offense.  I like what the Bills do on the backend to fluster quarterbacks, but this is a different type of offense to defend.    So I think McD and Fraiser will run a lot of line stunts this week to see if that can keep Lamar trapped in.  Stunt the line (TEX) and bring someone from the perimeter.   I'm not saying it will work but it's something to try.

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It’s almost like you completely forgo a pass rush on most downs. Have your Dline take a couple steps then stop. LBs must read their keys and fire. Can’t overthink it. Read and react. Execute, contain, and keep him bottled up. Everything designed to shut down the run first and foremost. This strategy has been used on Tyrod on a number of occasions to successfully “make him play QB”. Lamar is far better than Tyrod, but I refuse to believe there’s no answer for this offense. As several others have said, your only chance to beat them is if you shut down the run and make them throw it. Don’t let them play their game. Getting a lead on them might be the best defense. 

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