Extend Jordan Phillips?

[wppete]

We need to draft a DE in the first 2 rounds and sign one of the top DEs in free agency next year. Hope Harrison Phillips comes back healthy and we sign Jordon Phillips.

[MAJBobby]

Contact Comparison is Likely Malik Jackson 3yrs/30M with 17 guaranteed 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/malik-jackson-9958/

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, ILBillsfan said:

He is having a great year. I love the energy he has brought since coming here as well.  I think the Bills will be smart and not over pay nor should they.  I they have a CB and two LB’s that I certainly would rather have than Phillips

 

Maybe if you cut Star and toss a little of that money at him but don’t back the truck up.  Brand has done a great job of finding value players since he has been here 

I'd sooner pay him 10 mil a year instead of Star without a doubt.

[Big74Mac]

This guy is better than Star. They need to keep him.

[msw2112]

As two others have mentioned above, Phillips might be willing to sign an extension during the season for potentially less than he might get as a UFA in the open market after the season because it's the NFL and injuries happen.  He could blow out his knee next week and his career might be over.  Turning away $15-$20M with a large chunk of it guaranteed in a signing bonus isn't something to take lightly.  Also, after a bad start in Miami, he is flourishing in Buffalo.  He might genuinely like the coaches, teammates, fans, community and want to be there.  People like to be in places where they are having success.  He might be able to go somewhere else and make more money, but he might not be as successful there and he might not be as comfortable and happy.

[Happy]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Contact Comparison is Likely Malik Jackson 3yrs/30M with 17 guaranteed 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/malik-jackson-9958/

 

If we're paying Star $10M/year, Jordan Phillips is worth at least that and probably more.  We have the cap room to extend Jordan Phillips and we need him on the DLine.  

[MAJBobby]

9 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

I'd sooner pay him 10 mil a year instead of Star without a doubt.

 

I would too.  I also would re-sign Liuget at this point as well (he looks much better now that h is completely healthy)

Edited November 18, 2019 by MAJBobby

[Happy]

15 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

You can try and extend him but he would be silly to sign. The only reason would be to get a signing bonus now as insurance for an injury later this season.

Just tag him. No other Bill is worthy of a franchise tag this offseason. Pay him one year. They have plenty of cap room. And it avoids a huge signing bonus. 
For all the let's cut Star posters, I agree he is expensive but how do you replace him? They need two edge players in free agency or draft.

 

Replacing Star isn't the issue from a performance standpoint, IMO.  The issue with cutting Star is the cap hit: $7.8M in 2020 and $5.2M in 2021.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

If we're paying Star $10M/year, Jordan Phillips is worth at least that and probably more.  We have the cap room to extend Jordan Phillips and we need him on the DLine.  

 

Going by Comparable.  Star's Contract is an massive overpay and should not be used in comparable.  I am already giving Phillips a big jump as Jackson has 32 career sacks (but in his time in Jax he had 18 sacks before signing this current deal.  Phillips right now has a Career of 12.5 sacks (7 of them this year).  I see an 8-10AVV as the correct value for this player.

[Buffalo Junction]

56 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Guys.

 

If you were a 27-year old kid looking at your first (and perhaps only) shot at a massive, life-changing pay day, you wouldn't even think about re-signing before the open market comes calling.

 

He's in the midst of a career year and is a pink elephant of sorts: guys that big aren't typically good pass rushers, so someone is going to throw all the monies at him...and his agent knows it.

 

If he signs that deal his agent should quit.

I can’t see him signing for less than 4/$50MM unless he gets injured or doesn’t do squat the rest of the season. He’s earned a bigger contract and someone will pay. Chances are he’ll get $15MM per year if he gets a few more sacks. 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Replacing Star isn't the issue from a performance standpoint, IMO.  The issue with cutting Star is the cap hit: $7.8M in 2020 and $5.2M in 2021.

 

Yeah for better or Worse I think we have Star for one more year thru 2020.  then his out year kicks in that off-season. though if you can get Luiget (signed cheaper), Harrison Phillips back and maybe a year in the system for Vincent Taylor and might be enough to cover that cap hit and production cheaper

[Happy]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Yeah for better or Worse I think we have Star for one more year thru 2020.  then his out year kicks in that off-season. though if you can get Luiget (signed cheaper), Harrison Phillips back and maybe a year in the system for Vincent Taylor and might be enough to cover that cap hit and production cheaper

 

Taylor is the wildcard.  If he can be an effective player in the 1-tech rush D, that would go a long way to making Star highly overpaid depth.  I think McD panicked with the Star signing as he could have felt there was not an adequate 1-tech DT; McD needed one and knew Star.  Just an incompetent way to acquire a player.

[bigK14094]

Incentive laden contract is the ticket here.   He wanted to stay in Buffalo to "prove it"   OK, he did that for sure.  Now the Bills have to pay up or loose him.  Congrats to him for making good on his claims he is a player to fit this D.

[thenorthremembers]

59 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

2 years 16mil literally shows your team that you’re full of crap. What’s the message here? Perform well and we’ll lowball you?

Its a top 12 contract at the position.  Not everyone in the league gets 17 million per year.  I guess we will see what he gets.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Its a top 12 contract at the position.  Not everyone in the league gets 17 million per year.  I guess we will see what he gets.

 

waiting to see if Spotrac does his contract Projection.  I am thinking it is going to be about 9M per.

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

waiting to see if Spotrac does his contract Projection.  I am thinking it is going to be about 9M per.

I think thats incredibly fair.   Anything over 10 million dollars is an overpay.  Love the guy, love him as a player.  But he isn't Geno Atkins or Grady Jarrett. 

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Its a top 12 contract at the position.  Not everyone in the league gets 17 million per year.  I guess we will see what he gets.

lol what. 8 mill per year barely cracks the top 20 for DTs. Phillips is in his prime and likely wants a lucrative long term deal. Offering him 2 years at 16 mil is an absolute joke. That’s considerably less then what Star got. Do you think he’s better than Star?

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

lol what. 8 mill per year barely cracks the top 20 for DTs. Phillips is in his prime and likely wants a lucrative long term deal. Offering him 2 years at 16 mil is an absolute joke. That’s considerably less then what Star got. Do you think he’s better than Star?

 

$8M would put him 19th and squarely at the bottom of the 3rd tier of DT salaries in terms of AAV (top being $20M+, 2nd being $12-$17M)

[RyanC883]

dude is having arguably a better year than Aaron Donald.  Yes, extend him ASAP.  He could be the next Lorenzo Alexander find.  

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

lol what. 8 mill per year barely cracks the top 20 for DTs. Phillips is in his prime and likely wants a lucrative long term deal. Offering him 2 years at 16 mil is an absolute joke. That’s considerably less then what Star got. Do you think he’s better than Star?

It's top 12 for 4-3 Defensive Tackles.   When you get into 3-4 Defensive Tackle you're comparing apples to oranges.   And no, I don't think he is better than Star, but I also think they play drastically different roles in this defense.  Additionally, the Bills were in a totally different spot in terms of building a team when Star got his contract. And 8 million is exactly 2 million less than what Star makes, its not an astronomical difference or a joke as you call it.  What you're doing is trying to say every defense tackle in every defense around the NFL has exactly the same standards to compare contracts with.

 

8-9 million a year is a good contract for what Jordan Phillips does here.   If you think Phillips is getting something in the 12-17 million dollar range, like Atkins and Jarrett I'd say thats a joke.   One of us will be correct, one of us wont.  Its possible I am wrong, but I think getting your hair on fire for a 10 sack season and paying someone a huge contract isnt good management.  Again you have to think in terms of Phillips being a rotational cog in a defense.   Not paying top five for his position when he plays less than 50% of the snaps.  

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

Except he's been balling pretty good for 2 years now.

 

Both were contract years tho

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

dude is having arguably a better year than Aaron Donald.  Yes, extend him ASAP.  He could be the next Lorenzo Alexander find.  

This isnt arguable. 

[GoBills808]

His agent should be sued for malpractice if he signs an extension imo.

 

He's going to be paid but probably not here.

[DrDawkinstein]

42 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Replacing Star isn't the issue from a performance standpoint, IMO.  The issue with cutting Star is the cap hit: $7.8M in 2020 and $5.2M in 2021.

 

We still save something like $2.5M next year if we cut Star.  Sure, that $7.8M is more than you want to see in dead money, but I'd rather that $2.5M go to keeping players like Phillips.

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

It's top 12 for 4-3 Defensive Tackles.   When you get into 3-4 Defensive Tackle you're comparing apples to oranges.   And no, I don't think he is better than Star, but I also think they play drastically different roles in this defense.  Additionally, the Bills were in a totally different spot in terms of building a team when Star got his contract. And 8 million is exactly 2 million less than what Star makes, its not an astronomical difference or a joke as you call it.  What you're doing is trying to say every defense tackle in every defense around the NFL has exactly the same standards to compare contracts with.

 

8-9 million a year is a good contract for what Jordan Phillips does here.   If you think Phillips is getting something in the 12-17 million dollar range, like Atkins and Jarrett I'd say thats a joke.   One of us will be correct, one of us wont.  Its possible I am wrong, but I think getting your hair on fire for a 10 sack season and paying someone a huge contract isnt good management.  Again you have to think in terms of Phillips being a rotational cog in a defense.   Not paying top five for his position when he plays less than 50% of the snaps.  

I don’t think he’s getting anywhere close to 17 mil per year but I also think if the plan is to offer 2 years and 16mil then you’re not seriously trying to keep him. 
 

He’ll likely get a deal similar to Star. 

[RyanC883]

4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

This isnt arguable. 

 

Well, everything is arguable, technically :).  

 

Even so, his stats this year and disruption on a worse line than Donald have been impressive.  2nd most sacks for a DT (1 behind Donald).  And Phillips I would imagine has seen fewer plays than Donald.   Not saying he's Donald, but the guy is a legit top 10 DT.   

 

  http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=SACKS&conference=null&season=2019&seasonType=REG

[BillsFan692]

He is a good player we should keep him but not if we have to overpay too much. Pay him fairly and try to keep him, if it gets too high you just have to let him walk because he isn't a super star.

[HOUSE]

We need a 40% off coupon

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

If you were a 27-year old kid looking at your first (and perhaps only) shot at a massive, life-changing pay day, you wouldn't even think about re-signing before the open market comes calling.

 

He's in the midst of a career year and is a pink elephant of sorts: guys that big aren't typically good pass rushers, so someone is going to throw all the monies at him...and his agent knows it.

 

There is that, Bandit, but against that there's the constant chance of an injury that will make his play fall off or even take him out.

 

So if the team he's playing offers him fair money - a life changing pay day with guarantees albeit perhaps short of open market - players do sign for short of "all the moneys".  A responsible agent knows there's a trade off there.

 

Meanwhile I just leave this here.  Bear in mind that's a 6'5", 237 pound guy Phillips is lifting like Jennifer Grey.
 

 

[thurst44]

1 hour ago, ScotSHO said:

As much as we would like to resign/extend him now, he would be a fool not to hit the open market.  Let him see what's out there, and then talk if it's reasonable.

Would he be a fool, though. Let's say he really loves his situation (and few players have seemed to instantly taken to the Bills like he has) and pegs his renaissance to our system, how foolish would it be to take, say, a contract that guarantees 30 million vs. the chance at one that guarantees much more. Would the next 30 million make him that much happier and/or secure if Buffalo is where he actually wants to be.

 

Also, for the poster who (inevitably) mentioned the weather and taxes: many players -- even ones who have lucrative post-NFL careers -- have stayed in Buffalo and/or NY state. Different people have different preferences, and every indicator is that Jordan Phillips is about as Buffalo a guy as can be after a year.

[section122]

Jordan Phillips is maybe my favorite player on the defense so I am probably a bit biased here.

 

This dude is an energizer and their roles can't be discounted.  He is constantly pumping up the crowd and defense.  To me he fully embodies the process.  I get worrying about when he gets paid as it seems that is an issue with dt over any other position but if he was that type of guy I don't think he would have come back this year.  He is tied for 10th overall in the entire NFL in sacks.  He is 2nd at his position for sacks.  He has production, he has the attitude, and he already loves the City.

 

He is must re-sign imo. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

His agent should be sued for malpractice if he signs an extension imo.

 

He's going to be paid but probably not here.

 

Depends upon the extension.  2 year, $16M is "I'm taking calls next March, Thanks" territory.

[section122]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Meanwhile I just leave this here.  Bear in mind that's a 6'5", 237 pound guy Phillips is lifting like Jennifer Grey.
 

 

 

Seriously I love this dude.  He plays with joy and fire.  That is a defensive guy celebrating not just with the offense but with the QB.  That (to me anyway) says what his team and teammates think of him.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Depends upon the extension.  2 year, $16M is "I'm taking calls next March, Thanks" territory.

I think the team that will have him valued most accurately (in their system) is the Bills. It will be interesting to see how they proceed.

[colin]

i figure he's gonna get about 12 a year, 15-20 guaranteed 

[CommonCents]

33 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

dude is having arguably a better year than Aaron Donald.  Yes, extend him ASAP.  He could be the next Lorenzo Alexander find.  

What’s this based on, just sacks? I mean, who would you rather have Donald or Phillips? I don’t think it’s close. 

 

I do think he is the best player on that dline and the Bills are in no position to create another hole at that spot. Pay him. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by CommonCents

[Da webster guy]

Well, our run D sucks and he's our best interior lineman, played very well in college and now in his 2nd year for us, also a great teammate from what I see. 

 

These are exactly the kind of young, productive guys you keep.  

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I was disappointed when we re-upped him for only one year, just delaying the inevitable and setting up the same predicament for the next offseason. I think you have to extend him at this point.

[Big Turk]

56 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

What’s this based on, just sacks? I mean, who would you rather have Donald or Phillips? I don’t think it’s close. 

 

I do think he is the best player on that dline and the Bills are in no position to create another hole at that spot. Pay him. 

 

Donald by a mile...that is not to say Phillips hasn't had a great season but this is an outlier for him. Give him some money but don't go crazy, this may be an albatross(hopefully not). Not like the Bills don't have $90 million in cap space next year....I am sure they can find some money for him.

Edited November 18, 2019 by matter2003

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

As two others have mentioned above, Phillips might be willing to sign an extension during the season for potentially less than he might get as a UFA in the open market after the season because it's the NFL and injuries happen.  He could blow out his knee next week and his career might be over.  Turning away $15-$20M with a large chunk of it guaranteed in a signing bonus isn't something to take lightly.  Also, after a bad start in Miami, he is flourishing in Buffalo.  He might genuinely like the coaches, teammates, fans, community and want to be there.  People like to be in places where they are having success.  He might be able to go somewhere else and make more money, but he might not be as successful there and he might not be as comfortable and happy.

 

This is the important part IMO,.  He went thru some bad front office, players and coaches and usually the one willing to pay the most money are doing so because lack of talent, coaching change, etc.  He has value now not just due to his play but the scheme he is on, the players he is with and his coaches.  If he goes somewhere else he may get a multiyear contract but contracts are not guaranteed for a good reason in NFL - things change and not only for better.   No his coaching might change and this is a big IFFF, if the front office was armed with pitchforks and torches like fans.