Lamar Jackson: I'll Be Having That Crow Pot Pie Now (edited title)

[H2o]

In the same light that I can see the growth in Allen and believe he is a special player, I can no longer deny the fact that Lamar Jackson is a special talent at the QB position either. Yes, he has a great coaching staff from top to bottom that has tailor made the offense around him. Yes, he has a good/great defense to back him up. Yes, he has had some rough patches in the same manner as Josh throwing the ball. But again I watch him yesterday against the Texans and the young man does not disappoint. I keep thinking he will falter, but on the biggest stage he always seems up to the task. He is surely not just another system product ala Kaepernick or Tyrod with Roman at the helm. He can do things on the field that we haven't seen in this league since Michael Vick in his early days with the Falcons and when he is on throwing the ball, he is on. Even on the days he may be off throwing the football he can still beat you with his legs like he did the Seahawks or the Patriots. People keep hyping all of these other match-ups as the next Brady/Manning like Mahomes/Jackson or Watson/Jackson, but I can see the battle being Allen/Jackson for years to come. Hopefully his style of play doesn't lead to injury and it remains to be seen whether this style is also sustainable at this level, but right now he is one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL outside of the Bills every week. 

[plenzmd1]

So, I wanted the Bulls to stay put at 12 and draft Lamar and keep their picks. 

 

Then last year happened, and I was thrilled we had Allen and not Lamar, and through 4 games this year still thought Allen was the better player.  

 

 

I have changed my mind again, he is spectacular!

[Chandler#81]

Coming right up!

 

[Big Gun]

6 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

So, I wanted the Bulls to stay put at 12 and draft Lamar and keep their picks. 

 

Then last year happened, and I was thrilled we had Allen and not Lamar, and through 4 games this year still thought Allen was the better player.  

 

 

I have changed my mind again, he is spectacular!

The Bills staff would have never geared an offense around Lamars abilities and he would have been highly ineffective. Drafting Lamar would have been a bad decision on McBeans behalf. 

[Dopey]

I had it wrong too. Way better than I thought he would be, especially in his 2nd season. MVP talk in year 2?!? Wow!! Harbaugh has done an excellent job utilizing his skill set.

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, pop gun said:

The Bills staff would have never geared an offense around Lamars abilities and he would have been highly ineffective. Drafting Lamar would have been a bad decision on McBeans behalf. 

While I don't think Lamar would be AS successful if he had not landed exactly where he did, I still think the talent would show through. The young man is electric out there. 

[Mark80]

Jackson was absolutely tremendous at Louisville.  I have no idea why NFL teams didn't see him for the talent he clearly was.  The WR talk was completely ludicrous.  I had him behind Mayfield and Darnold on my list that year, but ahead of Rosen and Allen (who I, admittedly, had last out of the 5).  To me, this was clearly not an RGIII scenario at all.  He was thicker and had more arm talent than RGIII.  I also was hoping the Bills would stand pat and take him (if he was there) with even their second 1st round pick.  Mahomes doesn't disappoint me because I didn't see it from him in college.  With Lamar, I did.  

 

Now, I'm a big Allen fan and am very pleased with what I am seeing trajectory and improvement wise, but I do catch myself wondering "what if..." with Lamar.  Hopefully lots of fun, meaningful battles for years to come. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Mark80

[MAJBobby]

14 minutes ago, H2o said:

In the same light that I can see the growth in Allen and believe he is a special player, I can no longer deny the fact that Lamar Jackson is a special talent at the QB position either. Yes, he has a great coaching staff from top to bottom that has tailor made the offense around him. Yes, he has a good/great defense to back him up. Yes, he has had some rough patches in the same manner as Josh throwing the ball. But again I watch him yesterday against the Texans and the young man does not disappoint. I keep thinking he will falter, but on the biggest stage he always seems up to the task. He is surely not just another system product ala Kaepernick or Tyrod with Roman at the helm. He can do things on the field that we haven't seen in this league since Michael Vick in his early days with the Falcons and when he is on throwing the ball, he is on. Even on the days he may be off throwing the football he can still beat you with his legs like he did the Seahawks or the Patriots. People keep hyping all of these other match-ups as the next Brady/Manning like Mahomes/Jackson or Watson/Jackson, but I can see the battle being Allen/Jackson for years to come. Hopefully his style of play doesn't lead to injury and it remains to be seen whether this style is also sustainable at this level, but right now he is one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL outside of the Bills every week. 

I always thought Lamar would need one more yeah in College to refine his passing. However if you think about that his Rookie year and Offseason probably is just as if not more effective. I thought there was the skill there in the Draft just thought it would take some time with him. Seems I was pretty close to needing that year to refine his passing. 

[oldmanfan]

You have to hand it to the kid.  He had a lot of detractors coming out of Louisville but he is taking over the league.  It will be very interesting to see what McD and company scheme up to try and stop him.

[C.Biscuit97]

I respect this.  I put Allen and Jackson on the same level coming out. I loved both of the physical talent but I was weird about their limitations as passers.  I’m not as surprised at Jackson because he was pretty damn good in college.  But he looks even better than I thought as a passer.  With Allen, I want to see him have the monster games against NE and other “good” teams.

 

that said, it’s still so early. The key will be how they adjust the more film teams get on them.  But Jackson is a MVP candidate and Allen has shown some improvement.

[r00tabaga]

He has surpassed my expectations as well. Seems like a good kid too.

 

Still glad we got Allen instead. 

 

Seems some are confused.

I think Allen will enjoy a longer career & with more success than Jackson.

Hope that made it easier to understand.

Edited November 21, 2019 by r00tabaga

[Mark80]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I always thought Lamar would need one more yeah in College to refine his passing. However if you think about that his Rookie year and Offseason probably is just as if not more effective. I thought there was the skill there in the Draft just thought it would take some time with him. Seems I was pretty close to needing that year to refine his passing. 

 

Paying attention to him during his run at Louisville you could see enormous strides in his passing mechanics from his Sophomore to Junior years.  Most notably in his footwork.  That was what convinced me he was legit.  I thought that while maybe still not perfect, he showed that he could learn a lot in just one off-season which was impressive to me.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, H2o said:

In the same light that I can see the growth in Allen and believe he is a special player, I can no longer deny the fact that Lamar Jackson is a special talent at the QB position either. Yes, he has a great coaching staff from top to bottom that has tailor made the offense around him. Yes, he has a good/great defense to back him up. Yes, he has had some rough patches in the same manner as Josh throwing the ball. But again I watch him yesterday against the Texans and the young man does not disappoint. I keep thinking he will falter, but on the biggest stage he always seems up to the task. He is surely not just another system product ala Kaepernick or Tyrod with Roman at the helm. He can do things on the field that we haven't seen in this league since Michael Vick in his early days with the Falcons and when he is on throwing the ball, he is on. Even on the days he may be off throwing the football he can still beat you with his legs like he did the Seahawks or the Patriots. People keep hyping all of these other match-ups as the next Brady/Manning like Mahomes/Jackson or Watson/Jackson, but I can see the battle being Allen/Jackson for years to come. Hopefully his style of play doesn't lead to injury and it remains to be seen whether this style is also sustainable at this level, but right now he is one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL outside of the Bills every week. 

 

I would put it a little differently.  Right now, Lamar Jackson absolutely IS a system QB.  If he were playing in Daboll's offense, or in Green Bay or Cleveland, he'd be "showing flashes" and struggling much more.

 

But a lot of great QB actually are system QB.  I don't think Brady or Wilson would have been as successful in just any system for just any coach earlier in their careers.  Then there's Foles

 

The thing about Lamar Jackson is that his talent is several levels up over Kaepernick or Tyrod Taylor.  It also appears, his desire to succeed is several levels up.  From how he has changed 1st to 2nd year, he is absolutely FIERCE about self improvement.

 

Remember when people were raggin' on LJax last year because he had no agent and was being advised by his Mom?  And also for his manner of speaking?  Yeah, look kind of irrelevant now, and he appears to have worked as hard at his press presentation/public speaking as at everything else.

 

And oh yeah his Mom?  Supposedly she still gives him an earful, right after every game.  If his head starts to swell, no worries: Mama Jackson right there with a pin.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

But but  Strength of Schedule!!!  

 

And he lost to Cleveland 

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said:

But but  Strength of Schedule!!!  

 

And he lost to Cleveland 

 

1-0 versus the Cheats

[ALF]

31 teams passed on him in rd 1 . He would not run the 40 at the combine because he wanted to be a QB. He was drafted for  the perfect coaching staff for his ability. What a great story for a very good guy.

[thenorthremembers]

14 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

Jackson was absolutely tremendous at Louisville.  I have no idea why NFL teams didn't see him for the talent he clearly was.  The WR talk was completely ludicrous.  I had him behind Mayfield and Darnold on my list that year, but ahead of Rosen and Allen (who I, admittedly, had last out of the 5).  To me, this was clearly not an RGIII scenario at all.  He was thicker and had more arm talent than RGIII.  I also was hoping the Bills would stand pat and take him (if he was there) with even their second 1st round pick.  Mahomes doesn't disappoint me because I didn't see it from him in college.  With Lamar, I did.  

 

Now, I'm a big Allen fan and am very pleased with what I am seeing trajectory and improvement wise, but I do catch myself wondering "what if..." with Lamar.  Hopefully lots of fun, meaningful battles for years to come. 

Because despite his arm talent he didnt make NFL throws in college.   Teams knew they would have to design the offense 100% around his shortcomings. He's an amazing talent, but he also doesnt throw to wideouts.   He is very good at throwing to the middle of the field to wide open tight ends.   He was good down the seam in college too.  But if you watched his games he had major problems when trying to make typical NFL throws.  He was also smallish which I am sure worried teams about injury. 

 

Three of the top five receiving leaders on that team are tight ends.  He has trouble getting the ball to wideouts, their top wideout is on pace of 42 catches and 760 yards.   I dont know if that matters now, but I still think teams will adjust to that and make him throw outside the hashes at some point.   Right now the Ravens are doing a hell of a job with him.    He reminded me a ton of Tyrod coming into the league.   He looks incredible right now, but its a marathon not a sprint.

[Mark80]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Because despite his arm talent he didnt make NFL throws in college.   Teams knew they would have to design the offense 100% around his shortcomings. He's an amazing talent, but he also doesnt throw to wideouts.   He is very good at throwing to the middle of the field to wide open tight ends.   He was good down the seam in college too.  But if you watched his games he had major problems when trying to make typical NFL throws.  He was also smallish which I am sure worried teams about injury. 

 

Three of the top five receiving leaders on that team are tight ends.  He has trouble getting the ball to wideouts, their top wideout is on pace of 42 catches and 760 yards.   I dont know if that matters now, but I still think teams will adjust to that and make him throw outside the hashes at some point.   Right now the Ravens are doing a hell of a job with him.    He reminded me a ton of Tyrod coming into the league.   He looks incredible right now, but its a marathon not a sprint.

 

Fair point I didn't consider.  Thinking back I can definitely understand what you are saying.  Louisville's big throw plays were mostly in the middle of the field for sure.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

He has been impressive. I still think he'll have adjustments that will need to be made because you know...defensive coordinators will eventually wise up and put a different challenge in front of him. Much rather have him than guys like Trubisky, Goff etc. though.

[Your Brown Eye]

The Bills passed on Mahomes, Watson and Jackson, that should make any Bills fan blush more than a proctology exam

[Doc]

He's excellent for that offense.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

1-0 versus the Cheats

 

and Lost to KC.     

 

The Cravens have one more win than Buffalo, the Cheats are not what they used to be.  

 

I'll praise him when he wins as a QB alone. 

 

[Gordio]

L Jackson is Greg Roman's dream QB.  He has everything in his arsenal that Roman wants in a QB.  It is a perfect match.  L Jackson is like Mike Vick on steroids.  yes he is that talented.  The people that compare him to T Taylor that is funny.  Taylor has never had the skill set like LJ.  Not even close.  

[thenorthremembers]

5 minutes ago, Mark80 said:

 

Fair point I didn't consider.  Thinking back I can definitely understand what you are saying.  Louisville's big throw plays were mostly in the middle of the field for sure.

Its one of the reasons I didnt like him as a pro prospect.   But with his athleticism I had a feeling he may be the best out of the gate.   Quarterbacks with that much athletic talent usually are.   Vince Young won rookie of the year and looked great, and then fizzled.   RGIII was great his first year and then busted out because of injuries.   Tyrod was a very good qb for us his first year, and then teams figured him out.   The NFL made Vick out to be the second coming after he beat the Packers at Lambo, but he was never more than a bit above average as a thrower. 

 

Lamar is a legitimate MVP contender this year because he is incredible with his legs and makes a lot of safe wide open passes.   He may end up great but I think its fair to temper expectations and not crown him as the best from this class until at least after the third full year of playing.   Defenses may adjust.  Its hard to tell.

1 minute ago, Gordio said:

L Jackson is Greg Roman's dream QB.  He has everything in his arsenal that Roman wants in a QB.  It is a perfect match.  L Jackson is like Mike Vick on steroids.  yes he is that talented.  The people that compare him to T Taylor that is funny.  Taylor has never had the skill set like LJ.  Not even close.  

Why do you say its not even close?  I disagree completely.   I think Lamar is bigger and probably faster, but as far as arm talent goes I think they are pretty comparable. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I think the question will be can he stay healthy with all the running.  That's true of Allen too, but do think with Jackson his running sets up his passes more so even that with Allen.  Assuming Allen continues to improve just a little bit more on his accuracy, I could see him being a good QB that lasts quite awhile in the league even if his running ability was taken away due to injuries.  I'm not sure that would be true of Jackson.

 

When compared to Vick, Vick had six really good seasons, that could be what becomes of Jackson too.  We shall see.

 

Interesting stat too when looking at all the QB's take in 2018, Jackson and Mayfield were the only two that played more than two full seasons in college.  Basically by the end of this season guy's like Darnold and Allen will have played more games in the NFL than they did in college.  Jackson and Mayfield will need another full seaosn before that can be said.  Wouldn't shock me to realize  that makes a much bigger difference than many think.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Stank_Nasty]

11 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

and Lost to KC.     

 

The Cravens have one more win than Buffalo, the Cheats are not what they used to be.  

 

I'll praise him when he wins as a QB alone. 

 

LOL. why do none of your ridiculous comments on Jackson surprise me?

 

he's on pace for 3600 30 pass td and only 8 int. completing 66% of his passes with a rating of 106..... take away his rushing and those numbers alone are impressive.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[ILBillsfan]

I’ll admit that I need to be eating some of that pie 

 

had concerns with his accuracy after watching him but man have I been wrong 

 

though last year in the playoff San Diego forced him to throw and he was exposed.  Ha he has put that to rest imo having an incredible year

[chris heff]

“But, but what about his Wonderlick score? His mom is his agent? What do you mean he didn’t know he was getting a new play book?”

 

What a bunch of nonsense. As is the “system QB” premise. Good coaches build around player’s strengths. Standardized tests are bs. Apparently he wasn’t told Roman (promoted from TE coach) was completely changing the offense. Having an agent as a rookie in today’s NFL is a waste of money, the salaries are slotted, get a lawyer. 
 

Lamar Jackson is a good, maybe great QB. Anyone that thought he couldn’t throw didn’t watch him enough. He certainly can run. I’ve never understood why people think having a QB that can run is a bad thing. The reason given is that they will get injured. So you can’t teach a guy to slide or get out of bounds? Lamar and Josh Allen may prove to be the best of that class. They were also the most vilified.

Edited November 18, 2019 by chris heff

[IDBillzFan]

16 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said:

The Bills passed on Mahomes, Watson and Jackson, that should make any Bills fan blush more than a proctology exam

 

This post is like getting a proctology exam.

 

The Bills didn't pick them, they're 7-3 for the first time in 20 years, and I swear some you are dudes LOVE to seek out places and ways to shove a hand up the ass of the Bills and their fans just to see if you can make it fit.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

LOL. why do none of your ridiculous comments on Jackson surprise me?

 

he's on pace for 3600 30 pass td and only 8 int. completing 66% of his passes with a rating of 106..... take away his rushing and those numbers alone are impressive.

 

Tell me ....   Why should I care about him?  

 

He's Tyrod Taylor 2.0. 

 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Tell me ....   Why should I care about him?  

 

He's Tyrod Taylor 2.0. 

 

 

this is a frighteningly awful take.... really bad. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

He fits in ONE system and that is Romans. 

 

What is the history of every QB post Roman ?? 

 

They signed on as a JAG and replaced ASAP.  

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

this is a frighteningly awful take.... really bad. 

and your takes are any different?   

 

[GunnerBill]

He played very well yesterday. I'm still a little sceptical long term. I think there are still weaknesses there as a passer but he has taken a significant step in that regard from last season. And he does have absolutely the perfect coordinator for him.

 

The real story in Baltimore though is the defense. They were giving up an average of 23 points per game before Marcus Peters arrived. That was forcing the offense out of rhythm at times and forcing Lamar to have to try and do things he is less comfortable with at this stage. Since Peters arrived they have given up an average of 14 points a game despite playing Seattle, Houston and New England in three of those games who are all top 10 scoring offenses.

 

Not taking anything at all away from Lamar. He is doing a really nice job but the Ravens are the epitome of complimentary football at this point. And they are brilliantly coached. To think there were actually fans out there who wanted Harbaugh fired.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

this is a frighteningly awful take.... really bad. 

 

I'm waiting for your reply to Gunner.  that s/b good

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

He played very well yesterday. I'm still a little sceptical long term. I think there are still weaknesses there as a passer but he has taken a significant step in that regard from last season. And he does have absolutely the perfect coordinator for him.

 

The real story in Baltimore though is the defense. They were giving up an average of 23 points per game before Marcus Peters arrived. That was forcing the offense out of rhythm at times and forcing Lamar to have to try and do things he is less comfortable with at this stage. Since Peters arrived they have given up an average of 14 points a game despite playing Seattle, Houston and New England in three of those games who are all top 10 scoring offenses.

 

Not taking anything at all away from Lamar. He is doing a really nice job but the Ravens are the epitome of complimentary football at this point. And they are brilliantly coached. To think there were actually fans out there who wanted Harbaugh fired.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said:

He fits in ONE system and that is Romans. 

 

What is the history of every QB post Roman ?? 

 

They signed on as a JAG and replaced ASAP.  

and your takes are any different?   

 

yes.... I've don't think I've ever said something so foolish.

 

the guy is on pace for 3600 yds 30 pass td. he's top ten in YPA, he's 4 in qb rating, completing 66% of his passes you and say he's not getting getting it done in the pass game and is tyrod 2.0(never approached numbers even close to that)….. its really lazy and uninformed take on you part.

Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Where is your reply to Gunner?   hmm?

 

 

 

he doesn't say dumb crap like tyrod 2.0.... that's stupid.

 

and saying their is still weakness as a passer isn't saying he hasn't gotten it done in the passing game..... you remarks aren't remotely close to what gunner said. not even in the same ballpark.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

yes.... I've don't think I've ever said something so foolish.

 

the guy is on pace for 3600 yds 30 pass td. he's top ten in YPA, he's 4 in qb rating, completing 66% of his passes you and say he's not getting getting it done in the pass game and is tyrod 2.0(never approached numbers even close to that)….. its really lazy and uninformed take on you part.

 

Gunner is basically saying the same thing I said.   

 

Quote

 I'm still a little sceptical long term. I think there are still weaknesses there as a passer 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

In the same light that I can see the growth in Allen and believe he is a special player, I can no longer deny the fact that Lamar Jackson is a special talent at the QB position either. Yes, he has a great coaching staff from top to bottom that has tailor made the offense around him. Yes, he has a good/great defense to back him up. Yes, he has had some rough patches in the same manner as Josh throwing the ball. But again I watch him yesterday against the Texans and the young man does not disappoint. I keep thinking he will falter, but on the biggest stage he always seems up to the task. He is surely not just another system product ala Kaepernick or Tyrod with Roman at the helm. He can do things on the field that we haven't seen in this league since Michael Vick in his early days with the Falcons and when he is on throwing the ball, he is on. Even on the days he may be off throwing the football he can still beat you with his legs like he did the Seahawks or the Patriots. People keep hyping all of these other match-ups as the next Brady/Manning like Mahomes/Jackson or Watson/Jackson, but I can see the battle being Allen/Jackson for years to come. Hopefully his style of play doesn't lead to injury and it remains to be seen whether this style is also sustainable at this level, but right now he is one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL outside of the Bills every week. 

I'm going to wait a little longer before I eat that pie. 

[Teddy KGB]

As putrid as he was in the playoffs next year I can’t grant you any crow until he doesn’t do that again.   

 

Warm up my crow if he doesn’t embarrass himself in a playoff game 

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Gunner is basically saying the same thing I said.   

 

 

no. not even close. he doesn't say he hasn't gotten done as a passer. he says he still sees weaknesses...… and comparing jacksons production to taylors is freaking stupid. I don't know how much more I could emphasize that.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said:

As putrid as he was in the playoffs next year I can’t grant you any crow until he doesn’t do that again.   

 

Warm up my crow if he doesn’t embarrass himself in a playoff game 

 

I agree