Lamar Jackson: I'll Be Having That Crow Pot Pie Now (edited title)

[Virgil]

One of my close friends is a Ravens fan and I tell him every week that Lamar is trash.  I can’t help myself.  
 

While he is playing insane right now, I just can’t see it lasting.  I give qb’s like him a full two year playing window before something else happens.  
 

If he’s still a regular starter and lighting up teams in the 2021 season, I will eat all kinds of crow.   For now, I still think it’s a gimmick that people haven’t caught up to or he hasn’t taken a real hit yet.  Both are more likely than him keeping this up.  
 

I only see him surviving if he adjusts like Russel Wilson, but I don’t think he’s a good enough passer for that 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

no. not even close. he doesn't say he hasn't gotten done as a passer. he says he still sees weaknesses...… and comparing jacksons production to taylors is freaking stupid. I don't know how much more I could emphasize that.

 

Please stop.    You just want to find a reason to give me crap.  

 

Lets not act like I said he totally sucks.   2.0 is actually a compliment 

[eball]

Yeah, at this point it's clear I was pretty wrong about Jackson as well.  It will remain to be seen if he and the Ravens' offense can keep this up but it's remarkable what we are witnessing.

[T master]

But, But the experts say he's only a WR in the NFL ...

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

no. not even close. he doesn't say he hasn't gotten done as a passer. he says he still sees weaknesses...… and comparing jacksons production to taylors is freaking stupid. I don't know how much more I could emphasize that.

 

I think he absolutely has got it done as a passer. Some of the passing lanes he is exploiting are there because of the overall construct of the offense and the fact they have been able to play from ahead so much in recent weeks. But that isn't a negative. At the moment when his team have needed him to make a play in the passing game at critical moments - that last long drive against New England, or when that game yesterday locked at 0-0 mid 2nd Quarter and he threw the first TD pass right on the money - he has been making them.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Please stop.    You just want to find a reason to give me crap.  

 

Lets not act like I said he totally sucks.   2.0 is actually a compliment 

if our qb was a top 5 rated passer, top ten in YPA, and was on pace for 30 td and only 8 int would you say he wasn't getting it done as a passer?

 

we both know the answer to that question.

[eball]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

To think there were actually fans out there who wanted Harbaugh fired.

 

I know, right?  To his credit he went 100% "all in" on Lamar and this style of offense.  Once you get past Belichick it's hard to rank anyone ahead of him.

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he absolutely has got it done as a passer. Some of the passing lanes he is exploiting are there because of the overall construct of the offense and the fact they have been able to play from ahead so much in recent weeks. But that isn't a negative. At the moment when his team have needed him to make a play in the passing game at critical moments - that last long drive against New England, or when that game yesterday locked at 0-0 mid 2nd Quarter and he threw the first TD pass right on the money - he has been making them.

@SlimShady'sGhost

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, eball said:

 

I know, right?  To his credit he went 100% "all in" on Lamar and this style of offense.  Once you get past Belichick it's hard to rank anyone ahead of him.

 

I have argued he is the 2nd best coach in the league for about 5 years. He is Belichick like in that his teams often start slow while he works out what he has and each year's team always looks and plays slightly different from the previous year's. I can take an argument for Pete Carroll who I think has done a brilliant job recasting the Seahawks post the LOB era... but it is him or Harbaugh for that #2 spot for me.

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Tell me ....   Why should I care about him?  

 

He's Tyrod Taylor 2.0. 

 

 

One of the worst takes in the history of this board. In 10 games in his second year, he has more tds than Taylor had on an entire season. He also has a higher completion % than any season Taylor ever had.

 

if Allen was doing this, you’d be falling over and praising him. Your bias is showing.

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

One of the worst takes in the history of this board. In 10 games in his second year, he has more tds than Taylor had on an entire season. He also has a higher completion % than any season Taylor ever had.

 

if Allen was doing this, you’d be falling over and praising him. Your bias is showing.

we don't agree much. but we are on the same page here.

 

if allens passing line projections looked like this:

3600 yds

8.2 ypa

66% comp

106 rating

30 td

8 int

 

we would ALL say he's getting it done as a passer.

[eball]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he absolutely has got it done as a passer. Some of the passing lanes he is exploiting are there because of the overall construct of the offense and the fact they have been able to play from ahead so much in recent weeks. But that isn't a negative. At the moment when his team have needed him to make a play in the passing game at critical moments - that last long drive against New England, or when that game yesterday locked at 0-0 mid 2nd Quarter and he threw the first TD pass right on the money - he has been making them.

 

I think Lamar is defining what it means to "play fearless."

[RoboTronic]

All the draft experts were fooled by Jackson.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

Sign me up on the crow. I am still in shock at what Lamar is doing.  I keep thinking he's going to fail too or get hurt. We've got to give it a few years to pan out, but for the now, Lamar is the leader.  

 

I hate that I feel Josh is being neutered but I can see him getting better reading the defense, making anticipation throws and going through progressions. Lamar is not doing that as much. He is taking advantage of an offensive philosophy that plays to his strengths. Next year will be a true test, when teams have had an off-season to make adjustments and figure out how to defend that offense. 

 

For the 10 year haul, we may have our man. I hope so. If Josh is Aaron Rodgers to Lamar's Michael Vick, I'll take Josh any day of the week.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Isn't it funny that two of Tyrod's biggest fans are giving me grief over Lamar. 

 

I've seen a lot of the highlight reels and BLOWN coverage have made him look "great".  Hes till LOBS the ball which can be dangerous. 

 

Am I surprised he's done well?  Sure.     That doesn't mean I need to kiss his ass.  

[colin]

he's like a tyrod taylor with more talent and most importantly a green light.  tyrod had so little trust in his own ability to make passing plays (or fear of turnovers) that all the d had to do was take away the first read or two and he just turned into a turtle in the pocket.

 

jackson hasn't shown that at all -- altho the pass rush from the chargers in the play offs just smoked him.

 

let's hope the bills can do that to him in buffalo too.

[keepthefaith]

Lamar might be the biggest story in the NFL this season.  Very few QBs even among first rounders play as well as he has so early in their careers.  Hopefully he can stay healthy as he definitely takes risks with his running.  He's fun to watch.  Passing-wise in what little I've seen of him he looks to have a great command of the offense and is throwing the ball very well.  He's obviously put in a lot of work to get to where he is so quickly.  Bravo. 

[C.Biscuit97]

10 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

we don't agree much. but we are on the same page here.

 

if allens passing line projections looked like this:

3600 yds

8.2 ypa

66% comp

106 rating

30 td

8 int

 

we would ALL say he's getting it done as a passer.

You should start agreeing with me more and you’d right more often. ? and as one of Allen’s critics, I’d be beyond thrilled and sing his praises if this was his statline.  

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I have been watching game highlights of him recently to better understand how he has taken such a big jump in year 2. Three things jumped out to me:

 

1) a lot of his passes are simple bootlegs to his TEs or RBs. He is very accurate and those small passes seem to be easy 8-yard gains.

 

2) for the balls he throws downfield, his receivers get a lot more separation and make big high-pointed catches for him. He is throwing slants to guys that have 2-3 yards of cushion. 
 

3) Ingram is a beast. Their running game puts Jackson in good 2nd and 3rd down spots.

 

This isn’t to take away from Jackson, but it makes me wonder whether we could do a better job at setting JA to succeed here like Baltimore is doing. 

 

 

 

[CorkScrewHill]

47 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said:

The Bills passed on Mahomes, Watson and Jackson, that should make any Bills fan blush more than a proctology exam

All 32 teams passed on Tom Brady back in 2000 and everyone also passed on Russell Wilson, and even the teams that didn't pass on Mahomes .. if they knew then what they know now they would have pushed all in to get to the top of the draft to get him. The problem with cherry picking the winners and saying the Bills should have selected that person is that going into the process while you may have suspected one of these guys would be good .. you really don't know. The goal is to make a good percentage more right decisions than wrong decisions. We should have drafted Mike Evans, we should have drafted Richard Sherman in 2011, we should have drafted Julian Edelman in 2009. You could do this all day .. for the Patriots as well as the Bills

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Isn't it funny that two of Tyrod's biggest fans are giving me grief over Lamar. 

 

I've seen a lot of the highlight reels and BLOWN coverage have made him look "great".  Hes till LOBS the ball which can be dangerous. 

 

Am I surprised he's done well?  Sure.     That doesn't mean I need to kiss his ass.  

If you are referring to me as a Taylor fan, you’re completely clueless.  I was one of The main people who wanted Taylor replaced.  I apologize for not being simplistic enough to just compare Qbs because they played in the same offensive system (also why didn’t you compare Jackson to Alex Smith?).

 

if you don’t think Jackson isn’t playing at a mich higher level than any year for Taylor, in his second year, you are either clueless or just a hater.  

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would put it a little differently.  Right now, Lamar Jackson absolutely IS a system QB.  If he were playing in Daboll's offense, or in Green Bay or Cleveland, he'd be "showing flashes" and struggling much more.

 

But a lot of great QB actually are system QB.  I don't think Brady or Wilson would have been as successful in just any system for just any coach earlier in their careers.  Then there's Foles

 

The thing about Lamar Jackson is that his talent is several levels up over Kaepernick or Tyrod Taylor.  It also appears, his desire to succeed is several levels up.  From how he has changed 1st to 2nd year, he is absolutely FIERCE about self improvement.

 

Remember when people were raggin' on LJax last year because he had no agent and was being advised by his Mom?  And also for his manner of speaking?  Yeah, look kind of irrelevant now, and he appears to have worked as hard at his press presentation/public speaking as at everything else.

 

And oh yeah his Mom?  Supposedly she still gives him an earful, right after every game.  If his head starts to swell, no worries: Mama Jackson right there with a pin.

 

I agree 100% - the fact that the staff decided to go all in on designing an offense around him has made all the difference in the world.

 

He has grown by leaps and bounds and the offense he is in just works great for him.  
 

To me if people want to think about him on this team instead of Allen - I believe Jackson would be struggling big time to be successful, but still working hard.  I just think that having Roman as the OC (a guy that has done this multiple times - with multiple QBs) just makes the fit special.

 

Just as I am not convinced that had the Bills drafted Mahomes - we would be seeing the same guy we see in KC.  I think having Alex Smith and Andy Reid on a team that already had a ton of offensive talent - helped him grow much faster.  I don’t think he would have been a bust here, but I don’t think he would be in the MVP discussion either.

[RichRiderBills]

Enough about Lamar and how disaffected he was. He was a first round QB. Time will still tell. He's been good but so was RG3. 

 

Like all QBs with his skillset, he's one blown out knee away from oblivion. This is the big core of the issue. Time has shown again and again, this will play out.

 

I like him but so sick of hearing about this....

[Stank_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If you are referring to me as a Taylor fan, you’re completely clueless.  I was one of The main people who wanted Taylor replaced.  I apologize for not being simplistic enough to just compare Qbs because they played in the same offensive system (also why didn’t you compare Jackson to Alex Smith?).

 

if you don’t think Jackson isn’t playing at a mich higher level than any year for Taylor, in his second year, you are either clueless or just a hater.  

I wanted him replaced as well.... I just got in debates with @SlimShady'sGhost because he had ridiculous takes about him.... very similar to this one about Jackson.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If you are referring to me as a Taylor fan, you’re completely clueless.  I was one of The main people who wanted Taylor replaced.  I apologize for not being simplistic enough to just compare Qbs because they played in the same offensive system (also why didn’t you compare Jackson to Alex Smith?).

 

if you don’t think Jackson isn’t playing at a mich higher level than any year for Taylor, in his second year, you are either clueless or just a hater.  

 

Oh, I dunno.  It seems that every time I posts about Tyrod you give me a confused, skeptical or meh reaction.  

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

So does this mean our resident QB racial profilers won't be calling him "Lamont" anymore?

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

Enough about Lamar and how disaffected he was. He was a first round QB. Time will still tell. He's been good but so was RG3. 

 

Like all QBs with his skillset, he's one blown out knee away from oblivion. This is the big core of the issue. Time has shown again and again, this will play out.

 

I like him but so sick of hearing about this....

So why did you go in a thread about him? ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I agree 100% - the fact that the staff decided to go all in on designing an offense around him has made all the difference in the world.

 

He has grown by leaps and bounds and the offense he is in just works great for him.  
 

To me if people want to think about him on this team instead of Allen - I believe Jackson would be struggling big time to be successful, but still working hard.  I just think that having Roman as the OC (a guy that has done this multiple times - with multiple QBs) just makes the fit special.

 

Just as I am not convinced that had the Bills drafted Mahomes - we would be seeing the same guy we see in KC.  I think having Alex Smith and Andy Reid on a team that already had a ton of offensive talent - helped him grow much faster.  I don’t think he would have been a bust here, but I don’t think he would be in the MVP discussion either.

 

I think you're right, and to carry it further....I think it makes a huge and under-appreciated difference for a young QB when he is able to step into a functional offense where there are OLmen and skill players who already have the system down.  That's not to say that both Mahomes and Watson wouldn't be showing great promise if they were here, but MVPs or the same players they've been on their respective teams with the systems they had in place and the skill talent around them....mmmmm, No.

 

But this is one where I know there are different views and "agree to disagree" is where we're at on it.

[Mrbojanglezs]

Lamar is in a good spot with the team designing a scheme specifically for him. Will be interesting to see if his success is sustained over the years.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Oh, I dunno.  It seems that every time I posts about Tyrod you give me a confused, skeptical or meh reaction.  

 

Tyrod wasn’t terrible.  He won’t lose us games but he rarely won them.  So I wanted a difference maker but to hate on a very solid qb after he leaves is kinda dumb.  

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Oh, I dunno.  It seems that every time I posts about Tyrod you give me a confused, skeptical or meh reaction.  

Because your takes on Tyrod are terrible. 

[Rico]

Drafting Lamar would’ve been a very tough sell in Buffalo after TT, most everyone wanted a more traditional pocket passer. I’m glad to see him having success though, he is a lot of fun to watch.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

So does this mean our resident QB racial profilers won't be calling him "Lamont" anymore?

 

I think it's intended more as a joke along the lines of calling McKensie "McKittrick".

 

It is a question when/whether people will give up on the "really a running back" take though.

 

 

 

[Uncle Joe]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

Because despite his arm talent he didnt make NFL throws in college.   Teams knew they would have to design the offense 100% around his shortcomings. He's an amazing talent, but he also doesnt throw to wideouts.   He is very good at throwing to the middle of the field to wide open tight ends.   He was good down the seam in college too.  But if you watched his games he had major problems when trying to make typical NFL throws.  He was also smallish which I am sure worried teams about injury. 

 

Three of the top five receiving leaders on that team are tight ends.  He has trouble getting the ball to wideouts, their top wideout is on pace of 42 catches and 760 yards.   I dont know if that matters now, but I still think teams will adjust to that and make him throw outside the hashes at some point.   Right now the Ravens are doing a hell of a job with him.    He reminded me a ton of Tyrod coming into the league.   He looks incredible right now, but its a marathon not a sprint.

Nice analysis and I thank Lamar every Sunday for us getting John Brown.
I have been surprised by Lamar's quick development and wonder if he will sustain it after teams game plan for him.
He is also fortunate to be for playing for Harbaugh (the better one).

Edited November 18, 2019 by Uncle Joe

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Rico said:

Drafting Lamar would’ve been a very tough sell in Buffalo after TT, most everyone wanted a more traditional pocket passer. I’m glad to see him having success though, he is a lot of fun to watch.

 

I don't think our FO and coach are worried about the "tough sell" or what "most everyone" wanted.

 

The key is, that's unambiguously what Beane and McDermott wanted: a more traditional pocket passer. 

 

And that's unambiguously what they're working to develop Allen as and hope he will be able to become - along the lines of an Aaron Rodgers type who uses his mobility primarily to extend plays, with a run-threat if he can't.

[eball]

8 minutes ago, Rico said:

Drafting Lamar would’ve been a very tough sell in Buffalo after TT, most everyone wanted a more traditional pocket passer. I’m glad to see him having success though, he is a lot of fun to watch.

 

The Bills-Ravens game in OP on 12/8 should be a blast.  I like that Buffalo gets an extra couple of days of prep for this one.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Because your takes on Tyrod are terrible. 

 

Padded stats are padded stats.   When the Bills had the lead TT's 4th QTR stats were "great" (cough)   

 

When the Bills didn't have the lead TT's 4th QTR stats were bad, very bad. 

 

Tyrod's best year was with Roman.  After that his # declined game after game after game.  

[r00tabaga]

1 hour ago, Your Brown Eye said:

The Bills passed on Mahomes, Watson and Jackson, that should make any Bills fan blush more than a proctology exam

Dont forget Brady, Brees and Rodgers.

 

Smh-

[Big74Mac]

Here's the deal. For now he is fine and exciting. Once he gets hurt and cannot run all over the place the question will be, can he become a pocket passer later in his career? If he can do that, he can be great for a long time. His current style of play is not sustainable. It will work for a while and may very well be a super bowl year for them. In the long run we will be better off with Allen because he should still be playing ten years from now for us while Jackson is out of the league AKA RGIII style.

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

So, I wanted the Bulls to stay put at 12 and draft Lamar and keep their picks. 

 

Then last year happened, and I was thrilled we had Allen and not Lamar, and through 4 games this year still thought Allen was the better player.  

 

 

I have changed my mind again, he is spectacular!

 

I was definitely in the, "stay the hell away from Jackson," camp.  I'm still glad we have Allen and prefer him over Jackson.

 

So far, Jackson has definitely proven me wrong.  He looks pretty friggin' awesome.  I still don't think his type of play is sustainable, though.  Time will tell.  I wish I could fast forward five years to compare Josh and Lamar's careers.